John Fereira wrote:

BTW, the only paddle I've ever broken was one of those $30 carlisles.

Not to defend the $30 Carlisle kayak paddles, because they are awful,
but I have seen all types of paddles break. I tore the fiberglass matrix
of a Harmony Perception on some volcanic rocks. Werners used to crack
at the joint between shaft and paddle. Lightning shafts are vulnerable
where they are compressed into an oval. Graphite blades sometimes shatter
from impact with rocks, but are more often lost because the black color
makes them difficult to see.

andrei wrote:

She did not say that she did not like paddle - only that she was
getting tired fairly rapidly.

She will get stronger with practice. You could tow her when she
needs a rest (this is what I do with my kids).

It was me who was looking at the paddle change option (since we
cannot change the kayak) in the hope to help her.

A lighter paddle of correct length with a more-ideal feather angle
might help. The $30 Carlisle paddles used to have a choice of only
0 or 90 degree feather, which is terrible. Most experienced paddlers
prefer feather angles somewhere between 45 and 60 degrees. Length
should be sufficient to reach the water on both sides of your boat
without a lot of torso rotation.

Bill Tuthill wrote in message
The $30 Carlisle paddles used to have a choice of only
0 or 90 degree feather, which is terrible. Most experienced paddlers
prefer feather angles somewhere between 45 and 60 degrees.

Actually you can tweak the Carlisle paddles to almost any degree of
feather you want. Just have someone sit on one end while you
forcefully rotate the other end.

I agree that either a 0 or a 90 degree feather is pretty bad.

I also agree that a good paddle is a worth while investment.....

but....

I would also check that she is paddling correctly. Most beginners try
to paddle with their arms rather than their torso. Your torso is MUCH
stronger. Make sure she is rotating her body with each stroke. This
is an area where a little time spent with an instructor or just
another experienced paddler could reap some real benifits. You might
also consider getting one of the instructional videos that deal with
the forward stroke. "The Kayaker's Edge" comes to mind but it deals
mostly with whitewater.

My guess is that knowing how to do a proper forward paddle stroke will
have more immediate benifits for both of you than upgrading your
paddle.

Randy

andrei ) writes:

She did not say that she did not like paddle - only that she was
getting tired fairly rapidly. It was me who was looking at the paddle
change option (since we cannot change the kayak) in the hope to help
her. As for shops, there are a couple of shops around here, but they
main interest is *selling* rather than finding a cheap solution. They
position is: sure, get a better paddle. And I am left wondering "is
this worth the 100 extra dollars".

I would not spend more money on another paddle for your wife. If you tie
one end of a rope to the back of your kayak and the other end to the front
of your wife's kayak she will be much happier with her paddle, and you
will get even more enjoyment out of your paddling.

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"Dave Van" wrote in message link.net...
"Peter" wrote in message
news:04sub.236885$Tr4.697183@attbi_s03...
andrei wrote:

My wife, who has the same kayak, is having a hard time. Our kayaks
came with 30$ paddles Carlisle. The next paddle model up (judging by
price) was already at 90 bucks! Should she consider changing?

I mean, what does the paddle do? It "grabs" the water so the kayaker
can pull himself forward, right? So what's the big deal about
paddles?! I don't imagine that two buckets on each side of a broom
would be very pleasant to use, but is it worth spending 90 bucks or
more on a paddle? Would that help my wife?

Depends on what problem your wife is having. Cheaper paddles are
generally
heavier and holding up the extra weight can be quite tiring on a longer
trip, especially for a smaller, lighter paddler.


They also tend to have blade shapes that don't do a very effective job of
preventing flutter in the water and they can tend to want to slip one way or
another. Also leading to fatique and just being a pain in the butt in
general. Cheaper blades that are made of non reinforced thermoplastics tend
to bend a lot in the water, putting the energy of the paddler's stroke into
bending the paddle rather than moving the kayak forward.

Which is not always all that bad. I had a very cheap plastic paddle
for a while (I am a real newbie with less than 50 paddling trips, day
trips at that). It was a little short and hard, with a bad shape and
it really sucked. I went ahead and took some Black Walnut I had and
some Maple for the blades and made a paddle 240cm. I did some research
before shaping the blades too. Looked real hard at Jimistix website
for this. This thing is pretty heavy but also very flexable. I don't
seem to have problems holding it up for a day though. If you put one
end on the ground and push the middle of the paddle, it will easily
flex almost 2 inches (5cm). Yes, you spend a lot of energy "bending"
the paddle during the stroke but if you hold the end of the stroke for
a beat, you get it back. The biggest thing is for me, this is much
more comfortable. A little longer than maybe it should be for my size,
with a good size head, the softness and round entry on the head makes
for a very comfortable stroke. I do all flat water and am in no
partucular hurry most of the time. My neighbor picked up a carbon
paddle this season, I did not get to ask him how his shoulders are
doing but my concern, with all the joint problems I seem to have was a
real soft entry and easy on the shoulder. So for me a flex paddle
changed things for me and eliminated sore shoulders, even if I do lose
a little top end speed.
In the case of the origional poster, I suggest two things. Get your
wife a better boat, or let her slow down to her own pace instead of
chasing you while you "go into a headwind for three hours". I have
also found that a long teather to my 9yo when things get a little
snippy is really not such a bad idea. Helps her steer, gives her a
little break from full force paddling, makes her day a lot nicer all
together.
Scotty

Building light, comfortable paddles using wood and epoxy isn't difficult.
I've done three so far - takes about 6-8 hours, and costs less than $25 Cdn.
If anyone wants info on how to do it, feel free to drop me an 'e' -

--
" You Shouldn't Have Joined
If You Can't Take A Joke"
Royal Navy Axiom
Replace vk1nf with rhayes to reply
"andrei" wrote in message
om...
Hi everybody,

I have another newbie question: I was told that paddles a really
important and that often when people are having a bad experience with
their kayaks, it's the cheap paddle which is responsible.

I bought a Tarpon 100 sit on top recreational kayak which I use on the
Intercoastal River in the New Smyrna Beach and Edgewater area. I
absolutely love it, and I do find that this kayaks traks just fine and
fast even though many experienced kayakers find these very slow and
heavy. But then, I am 6.2 220lbs and I *enjoy* the efffort. For me,
going for three hours against the wind and the tide is simply great
fun.

My wife, who has the same kayak, is having a hard time. Our kayaks
came with 30$ paddles Carlisle. The next paddle model up (judging by
price) was already at 90 bucks! Should she consider changing?

I mean, what does the paddle do? It "grabs" the water so the kayaker
can pull himself forward, right? So what's the big deal about
paddles?! I don't imagine that two buckets on each side of a broom
would be very pleasant to use, but is it worth spending 90 bucks or
more on a paddle? Would that help my wife?

Thanks!

"VK1NF" wrote in message news:61bvb.14105$f7.707188@localhost...
Building light, comfortable paddles using wood and epoxy isn't difficult.
I've done three so far - takes about 6-8 hours, and costs less than $25 Cdn.
If anyone wants info on how to do it, feel free to drop me an 'e' -

--
" You Shouldn't Have Joined
If You Can't Take A Joke"
Royal Navy Axiom
Replace vk1nf with rhayes to reply
"andrei" wrote in message
om...
Hi everybody,

I have another newbie question: I was told that paddles a really
important and that often when people are having a bad experience with
their kayaks, it's the cheap paddle which is responsible.

I bought a Tarpon 100 sit on top recreational kayak which I use on the
Intercoastal River in the New Smyrna Beach and Edgewater area. I
absolutely love it, and I do find that this kayaks traks just fine and
fast even though many experienced kayakers find these very slow and
heavy. But then, I am 6.2 220lbs and I *enjoy* the efffort. For me,
going for three hours against the wind and the tide is simply great
fun.

My wife, who has the same kayak, is having a hard time. Our kayaks
came with 30$ paddles Carlisle. The next paddle model up (judging by
price) was already at 90 bucks! Should she consider changing?

I mean, what does the paddle do? It "grabs" the water so the kayaker
can pull himself forward, right? So what's the big deal about
paddles?! I don't imagine that two buckets on each side of a broom
would be very pleasant to use, but is it worth spending 90 bucks or
more on a paddle? Would that help my wife?

Thanks!


The paddle is the thing you hold the full time you are on the water.
I have never bought a $100.00 paddle. They are all more expensive.
When I am not on the water I am wishing I were.
If you hit a pond once every couple of weeks and cover little
distance, anything will do.
If you do 25 + KM the odd day that nice light paddle is a great thing.
If I were artistic or handy I would make my own wooden paddle , but I
am neither.
A rescue line to the bow of her boat for a little tug to help her
along may be a great idea. Make sure you have a quick release from
your rescue line, if possible from both you and her.
I have no idea of the environment you are paddling in , but a good
paddle is a joy.
Enjoy a great sport
Alex

For me, getting a better paddle has made paddling more enjoyable. However
what has made the most difference was improving my forward stroke. I was
having a hard time with paddling fla****er due to poor technique. Watching
Brent Rietz' Forward Stroke Clinic video was a real difference maker for
me. I incorporated his ideas with what was comfortable for me. Before, I
was constantly having to rest my tired arms. Now with proper torso
rotation I can paddle all day. So, yes a paddle can make a difference, but
perhaps you should look at technique first.

(andrei) wrote in
om:

John Fereira wrote in message
...
(andrei) wrote in
om:

Hi everybody,

I have another newbie question: I was told that paddles a really
important and that often when people are having a bad experience
with their kayaks, it's the cheap paddle which is responsible.

I bought a Tarpon 100 sit on top recreational kayak which I use on
the Intercoastal River in the New Smyrna Beach and Edgewater area.
I absolutely love it, and I do find that this kayaks traks just fine
and fast even though many experienced kayakers find these very slow
and heavy.

And many experienced kayakers, by definition, are able to make that
determination due to their experiences paddling 10' recreational
kayaks with heavy, inexpensive paddle and then comparing it to
paddling 17-18' composite kayaks with paddles costing $200-$300 (and
more). While you feel your kayak may track fine and be fast, you
can't really know how well it tracks and how fast it is unless you've
compared it to a "real" touring kayak.

My wife, who has the same kayak, is having a hard time. Our kayaks
came with 30$ paddles Carlisle. The next paddle model up (judging
by price) was already at 90 bucks! Should she consider changing?

Yes, and $90 is still very low in the price range for a kayak paddle.
I'm not suggesting that you go out and buy a $350-$400 carbon fiber
paddle, but if you think you're going to be participating in this
sport for a long time it might be worth spending a bit more. Someday
you might want to upgrade on your boat (or add to an existing fleet).
A decent paddle can last a long time. BTW, the only paddle I've ever
broken was one of those $30 carlisles.


I mean, what does the paddle do? It "grabs" the water so the
kayaker can pull himself forward, right? So what's the big deal
about paddles?! I don't imagine that two buckets on each side of a
broom would be very pleasant to use, but is it worth spending 90
bucks or more on a paddle? Would that help my wife?

I suggest that you try a decent paddle and decide for yourself. I'm
betting it will take all of five minutes for you or your wife to be
sold on it. If you can't find one to borrow or rent just go to a good
kayak shop and pick up a few paddles and you'll feel the difference.


Thank you all for the most interesting advice. Right now, our
kayaking budget is pretty much exhausted with two Tarpon 100s. With
time, and experience, we will both probably look into the purchase of
better, more efficient, faster and better tracking kayaks. But right
now we are stuck with Tarpon 100s. In my case, I am happy with it (-:
at least for the time being :-).

Nothing wrong with that. The important thing is that you're on the water,
gaining experience, and enjoying it.

So what I would be looking for is
reccomendations for a better paddle for my wife KEEPING IN MIND THAT
SHE WILL STAY WITH HER CURRENT KAYAK FOR THE TIME BEING.

I think you may have missed my point somewhat. It sounds like you like
kayaking and intend to keep doing it for as long as you enjoy it. If you're
going to be in for it for the long haul, investing a little more in a paddle
or other piece of equipment that may last you many years is worth it if the
alternative is saving a bit now, only to have to replace it in a year. I
haven't been paddling as long as some here (only 7 years) but I've seen how
fast beginning kayaker can "grow out of" their first boat or paddle. In my
case, I owned my first kayak for three weeks before I tried a few quality
boats and started shopping for a new one.

I mean - is
the Tarpon 100 too sluggish to improve on it anyway and are better
paddles only for more advanced kayaks -

A better paddle isn't going to improve an inexensive kayak any more than it
will improve an advanced boat. It will, however improve the paddler. All
the advice about improving the technique is good, but the comments about the
weight of the $30 paddle and the shape of the blades causing flutter make
paddling with that $30 paddle more difficult and more tiring than paddling
with a lighter paddle with better blades.

or might there be a
*reasonably price* (ABSOLUTE MAX 100 dollars) paddle which would
*significantly* improve the kayaking experience for my wife? (or does
the Tarpon 100 make the purchase of a better paddle a useless
endeavor?)

I haven't tried that $90 Carlisle paddle that Bill mentioned but most $100
paddles are, IMHO, still bottom of the line. However, $100 might buy you a
used fiberglass shaft and blade paddle like a Werner Camano, Swift, or
Lightning Std. Six years ago I paid $200 for a used Camano and a Lightning
standard, and when I'm not using my greenland paddle I still use that
lightning paddle.

It sounds like you don't have a lot of money in your kayaking equipment
budget so a good option may be to build a wood paddle, or stretch your
budget as much as you feel comfortable. BTW, there are only 30 more
shopping days until Christmas.

Bill Tuthill wrote in
:

John Fereira wrote:

BTW, the only paddle I've ever broken was one of those $30 carlisles.

Not to defend the $30 Carlisle kayak paddles, because they are awful,
but I have seen all types of paddles break. I tore the fiberglass
matrix of a Harmony Perception on some volcanic rocks. Werners used to
crack at the joint between shaft and paddle. Lightning shafts are
vulnerable where they are compressed into an oval.

As I wrote earlier I've got a Lightning Std that I bought used six years
ago. The blades have a few small chips in them (nothing worth worrying
about) and the fiberglass ferrule is getting a bit loose (something I'll fix
this winter) but it's still going strong. I sold the Werner Camano I bought
at the same time as the Lightning last year. The ferrule was also a bit
loose on that one but a bit of epoxy resin and some sandpaper fixed it. I
sold it for $90.

In any case, I was only relating my experience with the Carlisle paddles and
am well aware no paddle is indestructible.


Graphite blades
sometimes shatter from impact with rocks, but are more often lost
because the black color makes them difficult to see.

You're primarily a whitewater paddler, aren't you? If someone were to lose
a paddle while paddling a touring boat they're likely in a lot more trouble
than being out the cost of the paddle. It's just a guess but I bet most
broken touring paddles happen are related to trying to do something with the
paddle other than actually paddling.