Kids are new to me. I've been a pro guide over 25 years, but it's
always been 12-16' paddle or gear boats. We have 3 kids now (8, 4, 1)
and have taken the older ones on several Class II trips. Next year we
want to do some overnighters on rivers like the East Carson, SF
American, Lower NF&MF American, Putah Ck, and 4-8 day expeditions on
the Rogue, Yampa, John Day, Eel in the next couple years.

We did fine on an overnigther (2 adults/1 kid )with a 14' oar rig, but
it's gonna be getting tighter. Especially the boys want to bring
friends.

Thinking about adding a larger boat to the fleet, just wonder how
others have done with 16' SB's or 16-18' cats. I'm imagining
(dreading?) carrying 2 adults, 4 kids under 10, a 120 qt cooler, dry
box, and 6-8 med-lg drybags. I'm leaning towards a cat, but not sure
which combination of frame modules would be best. What are your
suggestions?

BNick wrote:

Kids are new to me. I've been a pro guide over 25 years, but it's
always been 12-16' paddle or gear boats. We have 3 kids now (8, 4, 1)
and have taken the older ones on several Class II trips. Next year we
want to do some overnighters on rivers like the East Carson, SF
American, Lower NF&MF American, Putah Ck, and 4-8 day expeditions on
the Rogue, Yampa, John Day, Eel in the next couple years.

We did fine on an overnigther (2 adults/1 kid )with a 14' oar rig, but
it's gonna be getting tighter. Especially the boys want to bring
friends.

Thinking about adding a larger boat to the fleet, just wonder how
others have done with 16' SB's or 16-18' cats. I'm imagining
(dreading?) carrying 2 adults, 4 kids under 10, a 120 qt cooler, dry
box, and 6-8 med-lg drybags. I'm leaning towards a cat, but not sure
which combination of frame modules would be best. What are your
suggestions?


As a scout leader I take kids aged 8-12 on canoe trips. Kids in the
10-12 range can be taught to use a small canoe, and can easily do
overnight trips. For example, our group does a yearly canoe trip down
one of the local rivers. With some training all of the scouts can do an
overnight trip (~60km total) on a relatively placid river (only two
short & simple "rapids"). The older youth, with 2 or so years of
experience, easily handle a basic white water trip. So my suggestion
would be to give the older kids their own boat, and let the younger
ones. Occasionally we "raft" canoes (connect them into catamarans),
usually with 2x4's and rope. IMO, this is not ideal with kids - they
often lack the discipline required to navigate rafted canoes. A proper
kit may work better, but I'd imagine that you still need a great deal of
co-ordination b/w boats.

Bryan

My popularity, though normally abysmal, was seriously bothering me this
spring as I then had a young chickee to impress. I bought a 16' SB and
suddenly became Mr. Popularity with the kayak bunch. I was even invited on
trips! I found the raft could carry six or seven extra drybags, food and
camping gear for everyone, and still leave room in the bow for the kayaker's
kids or non-paddling SOs. Even strapped a kayak or two on the back when the
water got too scary for those weenie boats.

On the last trip there were nine of us depending on the raft for support: 3
weenie boaters, a manly OC-2 (so full of foam that it couldn't carry its own
dunnage), and 3 adults or children, depending on who was in the tandem
canoe, in the raft besides the rower, I'd rate the load as medium; room
for a lot more gear but much over #300 more would start to seriously
deteriorate the raft's performance. I had very occasional help from two bow
paddlers, but found I could handle the class II 2000cfs rapids alone with
ease. When we hit the braids I was quite surprised to find how little we
drafted, about 5". What happened to the chickee? Well on the first trip
during that first night in the tent ...

So, I think a 16' SB would suit you wonderfully. A cat doesn't seem at all
good for handling small kids; nowhere to put them, unless you lash them into
a seat or stuff them into a river bag. And a cat is reputed to be rather a
dog when overloaded. There were also three cats (with 4 people) along with
us on the aforementioned trip and they had fun with little weight, but all
said they would have crumbled under the load of gear in the SB.

Most tripping families I know add another craft, usually a canoe or IK
(duck). Mom rows the raft and Dad takes one of the kids in the duck. Or
the two oldest kids take the duck. Or Mom and Dad...... Anyway, you get
the idea. The extra boat provides lots more variety and opportunity to gain
river skills, have 1 on 1, remove oneself from the crowd if needed, or just
play in a river feature next to camp. Because variety and entertainment,
along with constant munchies and frequent stops, are the secrets to heading
off mutiny as the kids reach walking age (that's walking away from family
outings, not toddling along).

Good luck with your upsizing, and let us know how things are going.

Padeen


"BNick" wrote in message
om...
Kids are new to me. I've been a pro guide over 25 years, but it's
always been 12-16' paddle or gear boats. We have 3 kids now (8, 4, 1)
and have taken the older ones on several Class II trips. Next year we
want to do some overnighters on rivers like the East Carson, SF
American, Lower NF&MF American, Putah Ck, and 4-8 day expeditions on
the Rogue, Yampa, John Day, Eel in the next couple years.

We did fine on an overnigther (2 adults/1 kid )with a 14' oar rig, but
it's gonna be getting tighter. Especially the boys want to bring
friends.

Thinking about adding a larger boat to the fleet, just wonder how
others have done with 16' SB's or 16-18' cats. I'm imagining
(dreading?) carrying 2 adults, 4 kids under 10, a 120 qt cooler, dry
box, and 6-8 med-lg drybags. I'm leaning towards a cat, but not sure
which combination of frame modules would be best. What are your
suggestions?