newbie at the pool
 

newbie at the pool
 

Oci-One Kanubi ) writes:

When practitioners of those more dangerous sports/hobbies took Watt to
task for what was dangerous advice in THOSE contexts, he became
defensive and dogmatic, and now he's gone over the top.

Here you err. Those who criticize my position do not specify any
particular context. I, on the other hand, claim universal context. Show me
the certified paddling instructor who taught natives to paddle kayaks on
hunting expeditions. Show me the certified paddling instructors who taught
natives to paddle all the way from the foothills of the rockies to trading
posts on the shores of Hudson's Bay and home again in one season. What all
of you are doign is limiting your perspective to what you do, ignoring all
those who went before you and did far more challenging and dangerous
things while transporting food and trade goods for the survival of
their families. You are all a bunch of pretentious clowns in silly rubber
suits and plastic boats playing at being paddlers for recreation.


Well, come to think of it, the other guy has a reasonable device, too,
if HE could just learn to discuss it in anything but extreme and
absolutist terms. Looks like a very similar pathology in both cases:
a kernel of common sense within certain contexts, twisted all out of
proportion by an attempt to apply it universally, and then carried
into extreme rants by an inability to discuss the matter rationally.

crude but effective. look at any environmental activist and junk science
promoter.


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newbie at the pool
 

Mary Malmros ) writes:
(William R. Watt) writes:

Oci-One Kanubi ) writes:
(William R. Watt) typed:

... Too many boaters drown every year
in North America, in the course of "teaching themselves", as Watt
advocates.

I'll have to take you to task on that one. Data please. I believe you'll
find its not paddling skill but ignorance of local conditions which
constitutes the greatest risk.

Here's a fine example of a William Wattism: making quantitative
statements about things for which no quantitative data exists.

the lady demonstrates it doesn't take brains sufficient to follow a simple
line of logic to propel a boat with a paddle (paddling, peddling, or
piddling). which leads one to question whether paddlers have the brains to
benefit from certified instruction at all. and supports my assertion that
anyone can paddle, even she.


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newbie at the pool
 

"William R. Watt" wrote in message
...
Show me
the certified paddling instructor who taught natives to paddle kayaks on
hunting expeditions. Show me the certified paddling instructors who taught
natives to paddle all the way from the foothills of the rockies to trading
posts on the shores of Hudson's Bay and home again in one season.

The natives didn't have "certified" instructors, but they certainly passed
their skills on to the next generation. They also taught Europeans to
paddle.

A few years back, I read an article by canoe trippers who were surprised
that they couldn't keep up with an old native woman who was paddling solo.
They relied on brute strength. She relied on skill.

The late Victoria Jason did an epic 4 year arctic journey by sea kayak.
When she arrived at villages, the elderly natives were in tears because they
hadn't seen a kayak in many years. The young kids were eager to try
paddling. A few years later, she returned to the arctic to teach the kids
the art of kayaking.

Many cottage canoeists think that they can paddle just fine despite lack of
lessons, formal or otherwise. Many of them are ignorant of control strokes
other than the goon stroke or a wild zig-zag. Their speed on the water is
dead slow & they can't go far without tiring.

Two summers ago, my wife & I spent a week at a cottage on Oxtongue Lake near
Algonquin. I watched busloads of Japanese tourists rent canoes from
Algonquin Outfitters. The majority faced the wrong way in the canoes. This
resulted in cramped legs for the bow paddler, loads of space behind the
stern paddler & a very bow heavy canoe that refused to go straight. (Famed
paddler Bill Mason watched a professor & friend do the same thing). The
ones I talked to were quite grateful for a few tips & did much better when
faciong the right wayt, but I soon tired of it & just watched the fun.

A middle aged English couple were having a terrible time going straight in
their rental canoe. She was quite willing to ask for help but his pride
wouldn't allow it. Eventually they came up with a workable system of sorts.
If the boat turned too far to her side, he'd stop paddling & loudly tell her
to start. When it turned too far the other way, he'd start paddling & tell
her to stop. They made the Japanese tourists look like experts.

You are all a bunch of pretentious clowns in silly rubber
suits and plastic boats playing at being paddlers for recreation.

I wonder about the sanity of whitewater paddlers, but you've removed all
doubt about yourself.

Lloyd Bowles
www.madcanoeist.4ever.cc


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newbie at the pool
 

On 1-Oct-2003, "Lloyd Bowles" wrote:

Two summers ago, my wife & I spent a week at a cottage on Oxtongue Lake near
Algonquin. I watched busloads of Japanese tourists rent canoes from

I watched some folks, dressed in saris and turbans, rent a canoe at
Canoe Lake. Ma in the bow, Pa at the stern, the kids and granny all
together in one canoe. They proceded to paddle in a circle, first one
way, then the other. One of the Algonquin Outfitter staff paddled out
and gave them a brief paddling lesson. With their new knowledge, they
weaved their way out of the bay and around the bend. The clouds opened
up and a drenching downpour ensued. They returned with clothes clinging
and, I'm sure, a new perspective on an old Canadian tradition.

I watched warm and snug from the restaurant above the store.

Mike

newbie at the pool
 

Lloyd Bowles wrote:

The natives didn't have "certified" instructors, but they certainly passed
their skills on to the next generation. They also taught Europeans to
paddle.

Funny that you mention that. The Czech people are generally good at
paddling, as almost the entire population has spent a lot of time in a
canoe or kayak. Having watched whole herds of Czechs coming down this
slide (http://wilko.webzone.ru/wil-100.jpg) with their big canoes, I was
surprised to see more than 95% of the ones coming down ending up
swimming, usually after having passed the hole succesfully. That
included the professional guys paddling the rental canoes (about half of
what came down, I would guesstimate).

It showed all too clearly that fla****er paddling and dealing with
moving water is a completely different ballgame, especially if you've
had no instruction in it.

Despite what some people think about their own prowess carrying over
into other lines of sport, in this case the difference between the two
kinds of paddling isn't as big as the difference in thinking and talking
about it and doing it. But then again, the best qualified to steer a
boat are usually standing on shore (Dutch proverb)...

Many cottage canoeists think that they can paddle just fine despite lack of
lessons, formal or otherwise. Many of them are ignorant of control strokes
other than the goon stroke or a wild zig-zag. Their speed on the water is
dead slow & they can't go far without tiring.

Grin: paddling my 2 metre kayak past a whole group of canoeists on my
way to the playspot I mentioned above, I couln't help laughing as two
guys tried to prevent me from overtaking them. They paddled their two
canoes on opposite sides, with the inner sides against one another, kind
of like a big catamaran. Their strokes weren't matched in strength, so
they zig zagged quite a bit too, not being able to keep up with me.
Funny, for a boat type that in the hands of even a slightly skilled
paddler wouldn't even show me the stern up close if I would try to race it.

--
Wilko van den Bergh
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.
http://wilko.webzone.ru/

newbie at the pool
 

newbie at the pool
 

newbie at the pool
 

Wilko ) writes:

It showed all too clearly that fla****er paddling and dealing with
moving water is a completely different ballgame, especially if you've
had no instruction in it.

instruction not needed. watch Bill Mason's paddling instruction films
avalable on VHS from the National Film Board of Canada. no need for
certified paddling instructors or formal lessons. I'm no white water
expert but I always paddle alone and Mason's films were enough to get me
started running rapids instead of portaging. Its actually very easy,
almost as easy as paddling a kayak.


... They paddled their two
canoes on opposite sides, with the inner sides against one another, kind
of like a big catamaran.

they were probably slowing the canoes down. due to wave interaction
between the hulls catamaran hull spacing is critical. the centrelines of
the hull should be apart about 60% of the hull length. the open water
between the hulls is usually about half the hull length.
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