newbie at the pool
 

I'm just kinda getting started in kayaking and I have a Dagger Bayou
recreational-type kayak. It's flat and short. I, of course, want to
get a real touring kayak at some time, but I can't really right now.

Anyway, my question: want to take it to a pool session sometime within
the next month and work on some wet exits and rescues. I know you
don't know anything about me, physically, but do you think it's worth
trying to learn a roll in this thing, or should I wait on that until I
have a better kayak?

newbie at the pool
 

mann wrote:

I'm just kinda getting started in kayaking and I have a Dagger Bayou
recreational-type kayak. It's flat and short. I, of course, want to
get a real touring kayak at some time, but I can't really right now.

Anyway, my question: want to take it to a pool session sometime within
the next month and work on some wet exits and rescues. I know you
don't know anything about me, physically, but do you think it's worth
trying to learn a roll in this thing, or should I wait on that until I
have a better kayak?

Recreational kayaks can be pretty tough to learn to roll in. I know, I
have a Kiwi Kopapa, and it was my first kayak, and I wanted desperately
to prove to all the whitewater snobs that it was as good a kayak as any
of their fancy WW boats. And before the 8 week class I began in was
over, I'd ordered a Wavesport Extreme!

Rec boats can usually be rolled, but it's rather tough, cause they are
so wide and flat bottomed, designed to have great primary stability, but
no secondary stability.

Get into an easy to roll WW kayak if you want to learn to roll. It will
serve you well, believe me, I know! :-)

--
John Kuthe,
1st rule of Govt: protect people from Govt
2nd rule of Govt: protect people from each other
BUT: It must *never* become the job of Govt to protect people from
themselves!

newbie at the pool
 

Take your boat to the pool to practice wet exits and rescues, but
borrow a boat from someone else to try rolling. Chances are there
will be someone at the pool session who won't have a problem with
your hopping in the boat and giving it a try. A rec boat isn't the
boat to learn a roll on, if it's even doable.

--
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield,
Other days you're the bug.

newbie at the pool
 

mann ) writes:
I'm just kinda getting started in kayaking and I have a Dagger Bayou
recreational-type kayak. It's flat and short. I, of course, want to
get a real touring kayak at some time, but I can't really right now.

And here I was thinking all kayaks were "recreational-type" craft. Until I
learned in this newsgroup that for a few idots of lowered brain activity
it is not recreation at all but a substitute for religious experience,
without all the hard stuff like a theological structure and adhering to a
moral code.


Anyway, my question: want to take it to a pool session sometime within
the next month and work on some wet exits and rescues. I know you
don't know anything about me, physically, but do you think it's worth
trying to learn a roll in this thing, or should I wait on that until I
have a better kayak?

pool sessions are nothing more than a paddling extremist's substitute for
baptism. they dunk you in the water a few times in a boat, collect their
fee, and leave you feeling you have joined a fraternity of faith. its not
about skill. its about psychology and mental conditioning. let them get
you into a pool and they 've got you for life. you won't be able to paddle
a single stroke without first paying for lessons from the priests of your new
religion.

beware of ceritified paddling instruction. if you get hooked we do have
certified deconditioning agents but they cost a lot of money. we have to
isolate in safe house for up to 6 weeks for the therapy to work. I don't
recommend it except as a last resort. Better to avoid gettign hooked in
the first place.

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newbie at the pool
 

In 1979, when my son and I learned to kayak, we were taught the basic art
during eight 3-hour sessions, 6 students and 2 instructors, on successive
weekends by volunteer instructors who were members of the San Francisco
River Touring Chapter of the Sierra Club. Use of the Chapter's 6 kayaks and
paddles were included at a total cost to the students of the grand fee of
$25 plus gas for the instructors cars (filled with the students). There were
four separate classes on the weekend mornings and afternoons with just the 6
boats and paddles in the CA foothill streams and rivers. Every Tuesday night
all year long the Chapter rented the Richmond, CA, indoor pool for pool
sessions - mostly rolling practice at a very modest fee per attandee. After
the 8 lessons, a last graduation session for each class with four
instructors took the students down the South Fork of the Sacramento on the
"Gorge" run, a low class 3. The students were then included in the many
private trips planned each weekend during the year. Thus the Chapter added
24 whitewater kayakers in the spring and in the fall of each year. Many of
them complete addicts (and good comrades) boating 40 to 50 weekends per
year.

Many of the students helped in the following years as instructors. After we
learned the art, my son and I helped to train many future friends and
comrades.

The training I saw other kayakers getting from "professional" instructors
was far below the standard of the SF River Touring Chapter of the Sierra
Club.

John Adams

"William R. Watt" wrote in message
...
mann ) writes:
I'm just kinda getting started in kayaking and I have a Dagger Bayou
recreational-type kayak. It's flat and short. I, of course, want to
get a real touring kayak at some time, but I can't really right now.

And here I was thinking all kayaks were "recreational-type" craft. Until I
learned in this newsgroup that for a few idots of lowered brain activity
it is not recreation at all but a substitute for religious experience,
without all the hard stuff like a theological structure and adhering to a
moral code.


Anyway, my question: want to take it to a pool session sometime within
the next month and work on some wet exits and rescues. I know you
don't know anything about me, physically, but do you think it's worth
trying to learn a roll in this thing, or should I wait on that until I
have a better kayak?

pool sessions are nothing more than a paddling extremist's substitute for
baptism. they dunk you in the water a few times in a boat, collect their
fee, and leave you feeling you have joined a fraternity of faith. its not
about skill. its about psychology and mental conditioning. let them get
you into a pool and they 've got you for life. you won't be able to paddle
a single stroke without first paying for lessons from the priests of your
new
religion.

beware of ceritified paddling instruction. if you get hooked we do have
certified deconditioning agents but they cost a lot of money. we have to
isolate in safe house for up to 6 weeks for the therapy to work. I don't
recommend it except as a last resort. Better to avoid gettign hooked in
the first place.

--
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network
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newbie at the pool
 

John Q Adams wrote:
...
After the 8 lessons, a last graduation session for each class
4 instructors took the students down the South Fork of the Sacramento
on the "Gorge" run, a low class 3.

Just in case anybody tried to run the S Fork of the Sacramento thinking
it is a class 3 run, I think John meant the South Fork of the American.
The S Fork of the Sacramento starts out class 5, then eases up to class 3
(but continuous) as it emerges from a bedrock gorge onto boulder fields
about 5-6 miles above Siskyou reservoir.

newbie at the pool
 

I don't know who put a burr under Mr. Watts saddle, but if you are in the
Maryland area, I would be happy to teach you the skills for free at one of the
Chesapeake Paddlers Association pool sessions.

Brian Blankinship

newbie at the pool
 

Kudos to whomever that was; It was my first belly-laugh of the day.

Padeen


"Blankibr" wrote in message
...
I don't know who put a burr under Mr. Watts saddle, but if you are in the
Maryland area, I would be happy to teach you the skills for free at one of
the
Chesapeake Paddlers Association pool sessions.

Brian Blankinship

newbie at the pool
 

Bill's right, of course. It was the S Fork of the American.

John Adams

"Bill Tuthill" wrote in message
...
John Q Adams wrote:
...
After the 8 lessons, a last graduation session for each class
4 instructors took the students down the South Fork of the Sacramento
on the "Gorge" run, a low class 3.

Just in case anybody tried to run the S Fork of the Sacramento thinking
it is a class 3 run, I think John meant the South Fork of the American.
The S Fork of the Sacramento starts out class 5, then eases up to class 3
(but continuous) as it emerges from a bedrock gorge onto boulder fields
about 5-6 miles above Siskyou reservoir.

newbie at the pool
 

Thanks people, and special thanks to the "extremist's substitute for
baptism" guy. Don't worry, I've avoided expensive instruction so far.
I have a few friends who should be at the pool to point out where I'm
going to kill myself. I guess I won't be attempting rolls there, but
I at least want to see what happens when the thing tips over. Can I
get out? Will the boat float if it fills with water? How far can I
lean before it goes over? Etc.

(William R. Watt) wrote in message ...
mann ) writes:
I'm just kinda getting started in kayaking and I have a Dagger Bayou
recreational-type kayak. It's flat and short. I, of course, want to
get a real touring kayak at some time, but I can't really right now.

And here I was thinking all kayaks were "recreational-type" craft. Until I
learned in this newsgroup that for a few idots of lowered brain activity
it is not recreation at all but a substitute for religious experience,
without all the hard stuff like a theological structure and adhering to a
moral code.


Anyway, my question: want to take it to a pool session sometime within
the next month and work on some wet exits and rescues. I know you
don't know anything about me, physically, but do you think it's worth
trying to learn a roll in this thing, or should I wait on that until I
have a better kayak?

pool sessions are nothing more than a paddling extremist's substitute for
baptism. they dunk you in the water a few times in a boat, collect their
fee, and leave you feeling you have joined a fraternity of faith. its not
about skill. its about psychology and mental conditioning. let them get
you into a pool and they 've got you for life. you won't be able to paddle
a single stroke without first paying for lessons from the priests of your new
religion.

beware of ceritified paddling instruction. if you get hooked we do have
certified deconditioning agents but they cost a lot of money. we have to
isolate in safe house for up to 6 weeks for the therapy to work. I don't
recommend it except as a last resort. Better to avoid gettign hooked in
the first place.

newbie at the pool
 

Oh, and thanks for the offer Brian, but I'm in Seattle.

(Blankibr) wrote in message ...
I don't know who put a burr under Mr. Watts saddle, but if you are in the
Maryland area, I would be happy to teach you the skills for free at one of the
Chesapeake Paddlers Association pool sessions.

Brian Blankinship

newbie at the pool
 

newbie at the pool
 

" John Q Adams" typed:

In 1979, when my son and I learned to kayak, we were taught the basic
art ... by volunteer instructors who were members of the San Francisco
River Touring Chapter of the Sierra Club. [snip happens]

[snip happens]

The training I saw other kayakers getting from "professional" instructors
was far below the standard of the SF River Touring Chapter of the Sierra
Club.

You were very fortunate in that, John Q. I was similarly fortunate
when I started out, by getting six full days of instruction for (IIRC)
$25 from The Canoe Cruisers' Ass'n of Washington DC. One of my
instructors was the late, great Roger Corbett. This training got me
safely onto the water where I could spend a coupla years developing
the basic skills I had been taught.

But, over time, it became clear that advancing to Class III+
whitewater in an open canoe would seriously stress the knowlege and
technique I had gained in that class, and I spent three weeks, over a
two-year period, at the Nantahala Outdoor Center. The wealthy
certified instructors were terrific paddlers and pretty fair
instructors, working for a pittance that might not have exceeded the
Federally defined poverty-level income. I was an elitist who was able
to squander under US$600 for a five-day vacation that included
lodging, wonderful food, any equipment I wanted to demo, activity
packed days, and all local transportation... in addition to
first-class paddling instruction. You could never get such value from
a Club Med, or an ocean cruise, or any other "everything-included"
vacation. My paddling skills increased greatly.

But, over time, it became clear that advancing to the occasional Class
V rapid I was canoeing could be done with considerably more style and
grace than I was exhibiting, and I started taking an annual three-day
clinic from Bob Foote, who helped develop the curriculum for the ACA
instruction program. Foote's classes marked a significant step
forward for me, inasmuch as he had studied techniques of teaching in
addition to his subject matter. And he had applied a rigorous
analysis to the sport of whitewater canoeing; rather as high-end
trainers study the ergonomics and mechanics of track and swimming
skills to maximize the performance of their athletes. $150 for three
full, intense days, usually spending the first on a lake to work on
pure stroke technique. I'll bet this wealthy certified instructor
earns a princely US$20,000 per year as an instructor (supplemented
with royalties from his boat designs, and I hope he's getting
something more from someplace). Again, I improved greatly under an
instruction regime.

Such a basic thing as rolling a whitewater kayak can be taught by most
people who know how, but surely there is none of you out there who has
not seen a gifted instructor who can get a newbie rolling in ten
minutes, WITHOUT risk of strained muscles or (worse yet) a fright that
might put the newbie off boating completely.

Every club I belong to (8 or 9 of 'em) offers a program of free to
cheap instruction, and they are all great to get a beginner started.
From there the limit is the paddler's desire. If his desire is to be
a very good boater, he must boat a lot, and, unless he is naturally
gifted, he must take advanced instruction.

If he wants to piddle around in flat water like William Watt does, he
doesn't need to spend a penny on instruction, and he can carve his
boat out of a log. But Watt spews his anti-instruction,
anti-manufactured-boat idiocy with no regard for whom his audience may
be. Anyone who tries to canoe Class III water, or above, with no
instruction in a boat made from a sheet of plywood, puts his life at
very serious risk.

William Watt is one of the more dangerous people in this newsgroup,
because his Luddite advice could cost a beginner his life.


-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--
================================================== ====================
Richard Hopley, Winston-Salem, NC, USA
rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net 1-301-775-0471
Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll.
rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu 1-336-713-5077
OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters.

newbie at the pool
 

newbie at the pool
 

On 30-Sep-2003, (Oci-One Kanubi) wrote:

IF YOU PADDLE WHITEWATER, or if you intend to, PLEASE do not read
anything William Watt has to say. Too many boaters drown every year
in North America, in the course of "teaching themselves", as Watt
advocates.

If you paddle a SEA KAYAK, ignore everything willywatt says. He
knows nothing of value and contributes nothing but nonsense.

If you paddle a FLA****ER CANOE, ignore everything willywatt says.
He knows nothing of value and contributes nothing but nonsense.

If you SAIL, ignore everything willywatt says.
He knows nothing of value and contributes nothing but nonsense.

I'm sure someone else will cover anything we missed.

Mike

newbie at the pool
 

Oci-One Kanubi ) writes:
(William R. Watt) typed:

... Too many boaters drown every year
in North America, in the course of "teaching themselves", as Watt
advocates.

I'll have to take you to task on that one. Data please. I believe you'll
find its not paddling skill but ignorance of local conditions which
constitutes the greatest risk. For that you'd need a guide. I know the
Province of Ontario licences knowlegeable locals as guides. I know because
members of my family have been licenced guides. I don't know what is done
in other jurisdictions.

I'm pleased to see posters in this newsgroup accepting the fact that many
people teach themselves the simple act of paddling naturally, and have
done so at least since the beginning of human occupation of North Amercia.
I consider it a shame that 80% of the population of NA are currently
raised in congested cities, have little contact with water in its natural
state, and lack the necessary experience should they come into contact
with it in later life.


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newbie at the pool
 

what's written below reads like religious liturgy because that's what it is.
beware priests in brightly coloured spandex who live off the ignorance of
newbie believers. beware glossy magazines and colour graphics websites
designed to impress, confuse, intimidate, and suck your credit card right
out of your purse or wallet.

"Michael Daly" ) writes:
On 30-Sep-2003, (Oci-One Kanubi) wrote:

IF YOU PADDLE WHITEWATER, or if you intend to, PLEASE do not read
anything William Watt has to say. Too many boaters drown every year
in North America, in the course of "teaching themselves", as Watt
advocates.

If you paddle a SEA KAYAK, ignore everything willywatt says. He
knows nothing of value and contributes nothing but nonsense.

If you paddle a FLA****ER CANOE, ignore everything willywatt says.
He knows nothing of value and contributes nothing but nonsense.

If you SAIL, ignore everything willywatt says.
He knows nothing of value and contributes nothing but nonsense.

I'm sure someone else will cover anything we missed.

Mike


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newbie at the pool
 

(William R. Watt)

Typed in I'm pleased to see posters in this newsgroup accepting the fact that
many
people teach themselves the simple act of paddling naturally, and have
done so at least since the beginning of human occupation of North Amercia.
I consider it a shame that 80% of the population of NA are currently

raised in congested cities, have little contact with water in its natural
state, and lack the necessary experience should they come into contact
with it in later life.

I have to take exception to this statement.
Native Americans were not self taught, but grew up in a culture where these
skills were valued, taught and practiced.

I did start out as a self taught paddler. The area I grew up in is not a
paddling mecca and I'm the only one in my family that could even swim. When I
bought my first canoe, I had to teach myself how to paddle. I read what little
literature available at the time and picked up what I could from other
paddlers. My skill level progressed very slowly and reached a plateau when I
started trying Class III whitewater. After a bad, high water incedent, I
decided to get serious about improving my skill level. I took a weekend course
from Bob Ruppel
at Riversports and ended up with private instruction because of some late
cancellations. Bob was an old slalom C boater and a innovative OC-1er. My level
of paddling jumped at least a class that weekend. I don't think that I would
have ever had enough time to paddle to develope
the technique that he had already learned
from racing and coaching.




SYOTR
Larry C.

newbie at the pool
 

On 30-Sep-2003, (William R. Watt) wrote:

its not paddling skill but ignorance

that willy boy uses.

I've got to hand it to you, willy boy - there
are only a handful of idiots that have made it onto
the r.b.p ****list and you did it in record time.

Mike

newbie at the pool
 

"Michael Daly" typed:

I've got to hand it to you, willy boy - there
are only a handful of idiots that have made it onto
the r.b.p ****list and you did it in record time.

Mike

Interesting, isn't it, Michael, the way Willie What has this elaborate
simile system comparing "wealthy" instructors (and those
non-instructors who believe in learning from the hard-earned
experience of others) to followers of a "religion", much the way
another polluter of r.b.p has this elaborate mental construct about
instructors "murdering schoolchildren" for personnal gain. There
seems to be a common paranoid thread running through the messages of
both of these very dangerous (to the uninitiated, who might follow
their advice) men.

The difference, in my eyes, is that Watt has a reasonable, commonsense
theory WITHIN THE CONTEXT of the calmwater boating he does. To float
around a pond or flat stream fishing or birdwatching does not require
any expertise as a paddler, hence it is not really a very good value
to pay for instruction or for expensive special-purpose boats for that
activity, and you can, indeed, teach yerself all the skills you need
to engage in the activity relatively safely. Watt's problem, though,
was that he was blinded by his own context, and did not think about
the consequences of his assertions in other contexts: offshore
kayaking and whitewater boating, which are both hazardous endeavors.
When practitioners of those more dangerous sports/hobbies took Watt to
task for what was dangerous advice in THOSE contexts, he became
defensive and dogmatic, and now he's gone over the top.

Well, come to think of it, the other guy has a reasonable device, too,
if HE could just learn to discuss it in anything but extreme and
absolutist terms. Looks like a very similar pathology in both cases:
a kernel of common sense within certain contexts, twisted all out of
proportion by an attempt to apply it universally, and then carried
into extreme rants by an inability to discuss the matter rationally.

-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--
================================================== ====================
Richard Hopley, Winston-Salem, NC, USA
rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net 1-301-775-0471
Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll.
rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu 1-336-713-5077
OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters.
================================================== ====================

newbie at the pool
 

newbie at the pool
 

Oci-One Kanubi ) writes:

When practitioners of those more dangerous sports/hobbies took Watt to
task for what was dangerous advice in THOSE contexts, he became
defensive and dogmatic, and now he's gone over the top.

Here you err. Those who criticize my position do not specify any
particular context. I, on the other hand, claim universal context. Show me
the certified paddling instructor who taught natives to paddle kayaks on
hunting expeditions. Show me the certified paddling instructors who taught
natives to paddle all the way from the foothills of the rockies to trading
posts on the shores of Hudson's Bay and home again in one season. What all
of you are doign is limiting your perspective to what you do, ignoring all
those who went before you and did far more challenging and dangerous
things while transporting food and trade goods for the survival of
their families. You are all a bunch of pretentious clowns in silly rubber
suits and plastic boats playing at being paddlers for recreation.


Well, come to think of it, the other guy has a reasonable device, too,
if HE could just learn to discuss it in anything but extreme and
absolutist terms. Looks like a very similar pathology in both cases:
a kernel of common sense within certain contexts, twisted all out of
proportion by an attempt to apply it universally, and then carried
into extreme rants by an inability to discuss the matter rationally.

crude but effective. look at any environmental activist and junk science
promoter.


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newbie at the pool
 

Mary Malmros ) writes:
(William R. Watt) writes:

Oci-One Kanubi ) writes:
(William R. Watt) typed:

... Too many boaters drown every year
in North America, in the course of "teaching themselves", as Watt
advocates.

I'll have to take you to task on that one. Data please. I believe you'll
find its not paddling skill but ignorance of local conditions which
constitutes the greatest risk.

Here's a fine example of a William Wattism: making quantitative
statements about things for which no quantitative data exists.

the lady demonstrates it doesn't take brains sufficient to follow a simple
line of logic to propel a boat with a paddle (paddling, peddling, or
piddling). which leads one to question whether paddlers have the brains to
benefit from certified instruction at all. and supports my assertion that
anyone can paddle, even she.


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newbie at the pool
 

"William R. Watt" wrote in message
...
Show me
the certified paddling instructor who taught natives to paddle kayaks on
hunting expeditions. Show me the certified paddling instructors who taught
natives to paddle all the way from the foothills of the rockies to trading
posts on the shores of Hudson's Bay and home again in one season.

The natives didn't have "certified" instructors, but they certainly passed
their skills on to the next generation. They also taught Europeans to
paddle.

A few years back, I read an article by canoe trippers who were surprised
that they couldn't keep up with an old native woman who was paddling solo.
They relied on brute strength. She relied on skill.

The late Victoria Jason did an epic 4 year arctic journey by sea kayak.
When she arrived at villages, the elderly natives were in tears because they
hadn't seen a kayak in many years. The young kids were eager to try
paddling. A few years later, she returned to the arctic to teach the kids
the art of kayaking.

Many cottage canoeists think that they can paddle just fine despite lack of
lessons, formal or otherwise. Many of them are ignorant of control strokes
other than the goon stroke or a wild zig-zag. Their speed on the water is
dead slow & they can't go far without tiring.

Two summers ago, my wife & I spent a week at a cottage on Oxtongue Lake near
Algonquin. I watched busloads of Japanese tourists rent canoes from
Algonquin Outfitters. The majority faced the wrong way in the canoes. This
resulted in cramped legs for the bow paddler, loads of space behind the
stern paddler & a very bow heavy canoe that refused to go straight. (Famed
paddler Bill Mason watched a professor & friend do the same thing). The
ones I talked to were quite grateful for a few tips & did much better when
faciong the right wayt, but I soon tired of it & just watched the fun.

A middle aged English couple were having a terrible time going straight in
their rental canoe. She was quite willing to ask for help but his pride
wouldn't allow it. Eventually they came up with a workable system of sorts.
If the boat turned too far to her side, he'd stop paddling & loudly tell her
to start. When it turned too far the other way, he'd start paddling & tell
her to stop. They made the Japanese tourists look like experts.

You are all a bunch of pretentious clowns in silly rubber
suits and plastic boats playing at being paddlers for recreation.

I wonder about the sanity of whitewater paddlers, but you've removed all
doubt about yourself.

Lloyd Bowles
www.madcanoeist.4ever.cc


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newbie at the pool
 

On 1-Oct-2003, "Lloyd Bowles" wrote:

Two summers ago, my wife & I spent a week at a cottage on Oxtongue Lake near
Algonquin. I watched busloads of Japanese tourists rent canoes from

I watched some folks, dressed in saris and turbans, rent a canoe at
Canoe Lake. Ma in the bow, Pa at the stern, the kids and granny all
together in one canoe. They proceded to paddle in a circle, first one
way, then the other. One of the Algonquin Outfitter staff paddled out
and gave them a brief paddling lesson. With their new knowledge, they
weaved their way out of the bay and around the bend. The clouds opened
up and a drenching downpour ensued. They returned with clothes clinging
and, I'm sure, a new perspective on an old Canadian tradition.

I watched warm and snug from the restaurant above the store.

Mike

newbie at the pool
 

Lloyd Bowles wrote:

The natives didn't have "certified" instructors, but they certainly passed
their skills on to the next generation. They also taught Europeans to
paddle.

Funny that you mention that. The Czech people are generally good at
paddling, as almost the entire population has spent a lot of time in a
canoe or kayak. Having watched whole herds of Czechs coming down this
slide (http://wilko.webzone.ru/wil-100.jpg) with their big canoes, I was
surprised to see more than 95% of the ones coming down ending up
swimming, usually after having passed the hole succesfully. That
included the professional guys paddling the rental canoes (about half of
what came down, I would guesstimate).

It showed all too clearly that fla****er paddling and dealing with
moving water is a completely different ballgame, especially if you've
had no instruction in it.

Despite what some people think about their own prowess carrying over
into other lines of sport, in this case the difference between the two
kinds of paddling isn't as big as the difference in thinking and talking
about it and doing it. But then again, the best qualified to steer a
boat are usually standing on shore (Dutch proverb)...

Many cottage canoeists think that they can paddle just fine despite lack of
lessons, formal or otherwise. Many of them are ignorant of control strokes
other than the goon stroke or a wild zig-zag. Their speed on the water is
dead slow & they can't go far without tiring.

Grin: paddling my 2 metre kayak past a whole group of canoeists on my
way to the playspot I mentioned above, I couln't help laughing as two
guys tried to prevent me from overtaking them. They paddled their two
canoes on opposite sides, with the inner sides against one another, kind
of like a big catamaran. Their strokes weren't matched in strength, so
they zig zagged quite a bit too, not being able to keep up with me.
Funny, for a boat type that in the hands of even a slightly skilled
paddler wouldn't even show me the stern up close if I would try to race it.

--
Wilko van den Bergh
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.
http://wilko.webzone.ru/

newbie at the pool
 

newbie at the pool
 

newbie at the pool
 

Wilko ) writes:

It showed all too clearly that fla****er paddling and dealing with
moving water is a completely different ballgame, especially if you've
had no instruction in it.

instruction not needed. watch Bill Mason's paddling instruction films
avalable on VHS from the National Film Board of Canada. no need for
certified paddling instructors or formal lessons. I'm no white water
expert but I always paddle alone and Mason's films were enough to get me
started running rapids instead of portaging. Its actually very easy,
almost as easy as paddling a kayak.


... They paddled their two
canoes on opposite sides, with the inner sides against one another, kind
of like a big catamaran.

they were probably slowing the canoes down. due to wave interaction
between the hulls catamaran hull spacing is critical. the centrelines of
the hull should be apart about 60% of the hull length. the open water
between the hulls is usually about half the hull length.
--
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