The Pine River passes right by the old Michigan Chemical Corporation
site. In 1973, MCC accidentally put a fire retardant, polybiphenyl
bromide, into cattle feed. Inducing this nasty halogen-based chemical
caused food contamination, a national scandal, and a bad Ron Howard
movie.

The entire site was razed and is currently capped off and surrounded by
security fence.

Lower Michigan rivers are full of industrial crap like this.

"Paul J. Knoerr" wrote:

Doesn't northern Michigan (the peninsula) still have wilderness?

Walt is very right... Michigan has been logged. There are small
stands of virgin old growth that exist sporadically throughout
Michigan (unfortunatly many are more tourist traps than wilderness
experience)

I'm an avid paddler of both the Pine and the Manistee. I paddle the
Pine river numerous times every year, including an annual New Years
Day paddle. That said, the Pine and Manistee are located mainly
within the Huron Manistee National Forest. For the most part, the
shores of the rivers are undeveloped, and while they are not unscarred
by the actions of humans, they are beautiful and support natural
habitat for a variety of native plant and animal species.

I am one of those people who recreate on these rivers to gane some
measure of sanity from the live I live on a daily basis. And these
rivers have a worth to me. Currently as stated by others the Stronach
Dam is being removed from the lower Pine. The dam has been being
removed for about 5 years now, as the dam is no longer generating
enenrgy, and it precludes the natural migration of steelhead and
salmon into th upper stretches of the Pine to breed. With the removal
of this dam, the Pine will once again flow free along it's course...
The Pine does flow into the Manistee which is dammed at Tippy Dam
below where the Pine enters.

But, the upper reaches of these rivers flow though some very
attractive land which deserves to be preserved for future generations.
Sure it's not virgin unraped wilderness, but it's wilderness
nonetheless, and many Michiganders choose to enjoy this wilderness as
it is. Many of the people here in Michigan also support the
designation of the Pine and Manistee Rivers as wilderness waterways.
We here in Michigan are experiencing the same issues with development
pressures that everyone else is. We have essentially the same
population in Michign today that we had 30 years ago, however, we have
developed 5 million more acres of farmland and forest. Unfortunatly
that trend will continue so long as we are closed to setting aside
land for recreation and preservation of a semi-wilderness.

So if you ever get up to Michigan... bring a nice river canoe and I'll
take you on a tour of the Pine and the Manistee...and you will see how
beautiful they are... especially in the throws of a snowy Michigan
winter.

PK

--
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
--Dr. Hunter S. Thompson

Pictured Rocks won't be overrun. Most Americans don't want a vacation
that involves:

1) going off the Interstate, or

2) walking.

Besides, neither Grand Marais nor Munising have a McDonald's.

Facts: Alger County has no stoplights. Luce County has one, but it's
over by Newberry. The Interstate is way over by the Soo.

Pictured Rocks is pretty well off the beaten path. I'd guess that
Yosemite or Yellowstone get as much traffic in a day as Pictured Rocks
gets in a season.

So, is there color around Miner's Castle yet?

Dave Moorman wrote:

In article ,
"stone" wrote:

The Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore is also going thru a fight. The park
wants to designate more wilderness areas and the local people do not,
feeling they have enough already. It is so bad the City of Munising (gateway
to the park) and Alger County officially passed resolutions against the
park. I have never heard of such strong hostility by local government to the
NPS.
I suspect the park is being pushed (lead?) into the wilderness fight by the
strong lobbying effort of the environmental extremists from downstate and
elsewhere, at least that is what I am hearing from the locals.

Lots of issues here but taking extreme positions is never the answer.....

Haven't been to PRNL for several years but used to camp there (Hurricane
River) when the kids were small. It is a beautiful area. Twelve Mile
Beach is extraordinary. I would hate to see it developed or overrun.

Dave

--
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
--Dr. Hunter S. Thompson

You are a reasonable man and there are few of them around.

"Randy Hodges" wrote in message
om...
Mary Malmros wrote in message
...

Not sure it's elitist, but it is a rather strict definition of
"wilderness". Who's humpty-dumptying the definition? It doesn't
really matter -- just be aware that in this conversation, there are
at least two widely divergent definitions of "wilderness" being
used.

There IS an established definition of wilderness.

"A wilderness, in contrast with those areas where man and his own
works dominate the landscape, is hereby recognized as an area where
the earth and its community of life are untrammeled by man, where man
himself is a visitor who does not remain."
The Wilderness Act

If you are looking for "Pristine," then you are likely to be very
disappointed. You should have been born millennia ago. On the other
hand, if you are looking for places where "man himself is a visitor
who does not remain" you can find that in most states.

It also has a lot to do with your state of mind. I can find
"wilderness" in many places that lack a pristine quality. It really
does not bother me if I can see a contrail or if there is an
established trail.

Randy

Color is running a bit late....turning nicely now however.....some snow
helped.


"Eric Simandl" wrote in message
...
Pictured Rocks won't be overrun. Most Americans don't want a vacation
that involves:

1) going off the Interstate, or

2) walking.

Besides, neither Grand Marais nor Munising have a McDonald's.

Facts: Alger County has no stoplights. Luce County has one, but it's
over by Newberry. The Interstate is way over by the Soo.

Pictured Rocks is pretty well off the beaten path. I'd guess that
Yosemite or Yellowstone get as much traffic in a day as Pictured Rocks
gets in a season.

So, is there color around Miner's Castle yet?

Dave Moorman wrote:

In article ,
"stone" wrote:

The Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore is also going thru a fight. The
park
wants to designate more wilderness areas and the local people do not,
feeling they have enough already. It is so bad the City of Munising
(gateway
to the park) and Alger County officially passed resolutions against
the
park. I have never heard of such strong hostility by local government
to the
NPS.
I suspect the park is being pushed (lead?) into the wilderness fight
by the
strong lobbying effort of the environmental extremists from downstate
and
elsewhere, at least that is what I am hearing from the locals.

Lots of issues here but taking extreme positions is never the
answer.....

Haven't been to PRNL for several years but used to camp there (Hurricane
River) when the kids were small. It is a beautiful area. Twelve Mile
Beach is extraordinary. I would hate to see it developed or overrun.

Dave

--
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
--Dr. Hunter S. Thompson

The Pine River passes right by the old Michigan Chemical Corporation
site.

Yep, you are right... except that the Pine River you are discussing is
different than the Pine River that was designated as a wilderness
river. The River you discuss flows east into the Titabawassee west of
Midland. The Pine River that is being protected flows west into the
Manistee about 120 miles northwest of there.

Come on up and paddle the Pine River... You'll be very surprised as to
how much wilderness there is on the West side of the State..

PK

Eric Simandl

I think you're talking about the other Pine River in the Lower
Peninsula...over towards Mt. Pleasant...

MB

In article ,
Charles Pezeshki wrote:

Plus, copper is an overabundant natural
resource.

Wasn't it nickel?

Dave

In article ,
Eric Simandl wrote:

Pictured Rocks won't be overrun. Most Americans don't want a vacation
that involves:

1) going off the Interstate, or

2) walking.

Besides, neither Grand Marais nor Munising have a McDonald's.

Facts: Alger County has no stoplights. Luce County has one, but it's
over by Newberry. The Interstate is way over by the Soo.

Pictured Rocks is pretty well off the beaten path. I'd guess that
Yosemite or Yellowstone get as much traffic in a day as Pictured Rocks
gets in a season.

That's good news. I'd rather drive the sand roads of Alger County than
an Interstate any day!

Dave

HI Dave,

Yes it was-- I realized this after I posted (Kennecott Copper wanting to put
in a nickel mine), but the point is still the same.

Chuck

in article , Dave Moorman
at wrote on 10/3/03 6:14 PM:

In article ,
Charles Pezeshki wrote:

Plus, copper is an overabundant natural
resource.

Wasn't it nickel?

Dave

The Pine River is down below; not up.

The west side of the state includes Menominee, Iron River, Ontonagon,
Houghton, Crystal Falls, Watersmeet, the Porkies, etc. The rivers are
clean.

"Paul J. Knoerr" wrote:

Come on up and paddle the Pine River... You'll be very surprised as to
how much wilderness there is on the West side of the State..

PK

--
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
--Dr. Hunter S. Thompson