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#1
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sponsons really work! (BS)
Oci-One Kanubi wrote:
(William R. Watt) typed (perhaps without thinking?): no BS. I put sponsons on a 7.5 ft sailboat. Keep them above the waterline where they don't add to hull resistance through the water. Without teh sponsons I'd never get back into the boat after a cpasize. Craig Smerda ) writes: ....oooh Timmy's back! Wheeeee! Just as fall set's in, the rat's try getting back into the barn. Well good luck getting rid of the little critter again. Ditto Mary's experience, sort of. I can remember, when I was in first or second grade, my dad and me righting a capsized Penguin-class dinghy (11'5"). It does depend a lot on the design of the boat. Boats like the Sunfish are trivial to get back on since they hardly take on any water when capsized. The small sailing dinghies I've used are only a little harder, but they all had flotation installed under the seats on the sides of the cockpit which acted as internal sponsons when swamped. OTOH, someone had converted an old rowboat for sailing which only had a little flotation - mainly in the bow and stern. When swamped it had barely enough stability to stay upright by itself and promptly rolled over if anyone tried to get back in. Additional sponsons would have been useful with that design. 'Course, my dad was a sailor; it's obvious that you ain't. On the other hand, no-one in this forum, to my knowlege, has ever said that it is unreasonable to choose sponsons as part of yer emergency kit; we don't say sponsons are utterly worthless, we say that mandating their usage is foolish and that the safety and rescue programs that the lunatic rants against are a more effective way to save lives. ... Whereas, under a controlled training program, the degree of exposure is increased only gradually, concomitantly with the increase in the skill and experience needed to deal with the inevitable problems. The first seakayaking self-rescue class I took involved training in the use of both paddle-floats and inflatable sponsons. My impression is that sponsons are included less frequently these days, probably largely as a result of Tim's rather acerbic 'sales technique'. It's unfortunate since I do believe there are situations in seakayaking where sponsons are a good device to have available. |
#2
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sponsons really work! (BS)
On 26-Aug-2003, Peter wrote:
Additional sponsons would have been useful with that design. A better design sounds like a solution. Patching a bad design with sponsons is not a solution. Timmy's approach is to patch bad combinations of inexperienced paddlers and the wrong conditions. Proper education and experience with good equipment make more sense. I tackle tougher conditions than most of the paddlers I know. My kayak has very low initial stability (high secondary). I have never flipped over unless I wanted to. My rolls are about as bombproof as I can get. Even if I lost my paddle and spare, a paddle float is faster to inflate and I could easily roll up with it on my hand. What would I want sponsons for? Mike |
#3
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sponsons really work! (BS)
Michael Daly wrote: On 26-Aug-2003, Peter wrote: The small sailing dinghies I've used are only a little harder, but they all had flotation installed under the seats on the sides of the cockpit which acted as internal sponsons when swamped. OTOH, someone had converted an old rowboat for sailing which only had a little flotation - mainly in the bow and stern. ... Additional sponsons would have been useful with that design. A better design sounds like a solution. Patching a bad design with sponsons is not a solution. As I pointed out before, the better design for sailing dinghies already includes flotation that acts as sponsons when the cockpit is flooded. Putting in those sponson-like flotation chambers was a solution. Timmy's approach is to patch bad combinations of inexperienced paddlers and the wrong conditions. Proper education and experience with good equipment make more sense. I tackle tougher conditions than most of the paddlers I know. My kayak has very low initial stability (high secondary). I have never flipped over unless I wanted to. My rolls are about as bombproof as I can get. Even if I lost my paddle and spare, a paddle float is faster to inflate and I could easily roll up with it on my hand. What would I want sponsons for? You, or someone with you, is incapacitated (i.e. incapable of balancing and/or bracing for stability) and you're far from shore. Putting sponsons on the boat with the incapacitated person would allow the other paddler to tow them to safety. Without sponsons I'd juryrig a paddle with a pair of paddle floats to act as outriggers, but I'd expect the result to be harder to tow and not as secure as properly designed sponsons. |
#4
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sponsons really work! (BS)
On 26-Aug-2003, Peter wrote:
You, or someone with you, is incapacitated (i.e. incapable of balancing and/or bracing for stability) and you're far from shore. Putting sponsons on the boat with the incapacitated person would allow the other paddler to tow them to safety. Good in theory, but in practice, the sponsons don't provide enough stability. Timmy's sponsons attached to an empty kayak increases the stability about as much as the same kayak without sponsons but fully loaded with gear. I wouldn't tow a paddler in an otherwise unsupported, fully loaded kayak. In rough conditions. the sponsons can increase the likelyhood of a collapse, since high initial stability on a steep wave means less stability overall. In calm conditions, sponsons may be fine, but the best thing for a disabled paddler is a contact tow. You can see them and deal with them more quickly than with a tow. If there's a third person, use that person to stabilize the incapacitated paddler and tow the duo. I've done that in a real emergency and it's not so bad. .. Without sponsons I'd juryrig a paddle with a pair of paddle floats to act as outriggers, but I'd expect the result to be harder to tow and not as secure as properly designed sponsons. That's a good approach, but I don't think it would be so terrible to tow. Folks I know who have tried it say it's reasonable to tow. YMMV. If sponsons were _significantly_ better than competing approaches, I'd support them. However, they are better in some ways and worse in others. The net is six of one, half dozen of the other. If you prefer sponsons, that's fine - use them but make sure you've practiced. They are no more or less likely to save a life than other approaches. Mike |
#5
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sponsons really work! (BS)
Peter typed:
[snip] The small sailing dinghies I've used are only a little harder, but they all had flotation installed under the seats on the sides of the cockpit which acted as internal sponsons when swamped. Whoa, please, Peter! You completely turn the discussion around, and make it meaningless, when you use language this carelessly. There can be NO SUCH THING as an "internal sponson". By definition, a sponson is one of many kinds of *projections or protuberances from the hull* of a vessel. By strict definition, it need not provide any floatation at all, as the many small-gun sponsons that were hung off the edges of the decks of older warships. You are equating "sponsons" with "floatation chambers". And the value you are ascribing to sponsons is the value derived from the feature Timmy's *inflatable* sponsons' share with floatation chambers: they hold air. It is realistic to say "sponsons act as external floatation chambers"; it is meaningless to say "floatation chambers act as internal sponsons." Nearly no-one posting to this forum would argue against floatation chambers in any kind of boat. Floating yer boat is crucial, and floatation chambers ameliorate some of the problems inherent in capsizing. You have turned the meaning of language around and are fallaciously praising sponsons by saying the floatation chambers (very good thing) acted as sponsons (a questionably good thing). Floatation chambers have the salutory benefit of a *secondary* characteristic of (Timmy's inflatable) sponsons, but floatation chambers do not necessarily have the problematic *primary* characteristic of sponsons, that they protrude beyond the hull and compromise the hull design. -Richard, His Kanubic Travesty -- ================================================== ==================== Richard Hopley, Winston-Salem, NC, USA rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net 1-301-775-0471 Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll. rhople[at]wfubmc[dot]edu 1-336-713-5077 OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters. ================================================== ==================== |
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