On Mon, 16 May 2011 00:14:16 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 15 May 2011 16:07:44 -0400, wf3h wrote:

On Sun, 15 May 2011 14:48:28 -0400, wrote:


and yet the GOP got 70% of wall street money when the DEMS started to
regulate wall street. and they got a pay off. the GOP is fighting any
regulation at all.

I guess 68 is close to 70 but the point is that it was the gop going
off the reservation, fighting the bailout, so they needed the bribes.
The dems were solidly in the bag.

so it's OK when the GOP gets bribed to do wall street's bidding

but when the dems tell wall street to shove it, that proves they'e
doing what wall street wants

uh....OK...
y!

I am not running from anything. There were plenty of neocon democrats
who were eager to have a war with Iraq.
\
how many were president?

oh. zero.

Congress has to pay for those wars and there are some war resolutions
I can go look up if you really need the votes.

and how many would have done so if bush hadn't LIED??


They were the same ones who
criticized GHWB for not chasing the Iraqis all the way to Baghdad in
1991. These are the ones who are backed by AIPAC and have never seen a
war against Muslims that they didn't like.

and how many were president?

oh. zero.

how many were commander in chief?

zero.


See above.

you bet


not quite sure. GOP is more conservative than the dems are liberal, so
there's a right wing tilt to the senate:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42993395...h-health_care/

ben nelson and blanche lincoln both have ACU ratings of 48%-46%

Ah Nelson, the Cornhusker kickback guy? Great example of the flaws in
the health care bill.

yep, nelson's the most conservative dem. figures he's unprincipled

most right wingers are.

Yeah the technical detain is OBL was in Pakistan and it was not a
150,000 man army that got him., It was a small team of special ops
people. That is what we should have been doing all along.

and obama has been moving in that direction as well, which is why the
number of these operations has increased, along with increased drone
strikes. but you dont just cut and run

How many GIs have to die before you decide it is a waste of capital.

how many new yorkers have to die before you decide it wasnt?

You sound like Nixon now. Do we want "Peace with Honor"?
That cost us about 30,000 guys and we still lost.

gee. i just missed being drafted for vietnam. i got over vietnam
syndrome

you havent


and yet if we dont stablize afghanistan, the taliban will return, they
will set up operations with al qaida and we'll have pakistin and
afghanistan to deal with

The taliban is going to return. We have no way to stop them.

sure we do. we set up a dictatorship that's a ruthless killer. it's
been done before

how much luck did al qaida have in iraq?

none.


The Taliban had nothing to do with 9-11. Most of them still have never
even heard of it.

sure they did. in fact, you lost all credibility when you made that
statement

OBL was living in kabul on 9/11. when mullah omar was ordered by the
US to turn over OBL, he refused, saying OBL was a guest in afghanist

so your statement is wrong. and it's like saying the japanese had no
responsibility for hte attack on pearl harbor

That is total bull****. The japs were flying the planes that attacked
Pear Harbor. There were ZERO Taliban guys on the planes on 9-11, nor
were they really involved in the plot at all. To use your logic, we
should declare war on Pakistan today

now let's see

OBL was living in afghanistan

he planned the attack from there with his conspirators

you DO know that, if you are engaged in a conspiracy you are as guilty
if you PLAN it as those who carry it out....that's the law.

so you're an appeaser. you're the only moron ive seen who loves the
taliban



If your excuse for invading Afghanistan was just that they sheltered
OBL, what do you have to say about Pakistan?

mullah omar was the HEAD Of the taliban. and there are no nukes in
afghanistan. so there's NO eivdence the HEAD Of govt in pakistan knew
ANYTHING about OBL. the ISI certainly did, but this just means we have
to be at war with pakistan in a different way.

So you think the only reason we attacked Afghanistan is because they
don't have any nukes.

that's a pretty good start.



Killing taliban is like stepping on ants. It may make you feel like
you are doing something but you are at war with their birth rate.
Some day soon the population is going to throw Karzai out and they
will blame us for letting him stay there so long ... just like the
Egyptians

depends. if karzai is content to kill taliban and they are willing to
try and kill him, then we have a stand off. which is a win for us. as
long as we deny afghanistan to the taliban, we win.

Karzai is supporting theTaliban.That dog don't hunt.

ROFLMAO!! they're trying to kill him and he's supporting them?

uh...OK..

so far all you've told us is what great guys the taliban are and how
OBL was innocent

any other delusions you got?

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 16 May 2011 00:14:16 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 15 May 2011 16:07:44 -0400, wf3h wrote:

On Sun, 15 May 2011 14:48:28 -0400, wrote:


and yet the GOP got 70% of wall street money when the DEMS started to
regulate wall street. and they got a pay off. the GOP is fighting any
regulation at all.

I guess 68 is close to 70 but the point is that it was the gop going
off the reservation, fighting the bailout, so they needed the bribes.
The dems were solidly in the bag.

so it's OK when the GOP gets bribed to do wall street's bidding

but when the dems tell wall street to shove it, that proves they'e
doing what wall street wants

uh....OK...
y!

I am not running from anything. There were plenty of neocon democrats
who were eager to have a war with Iraq.
\
how many were president?

oh. zero.

Congress has to pay for those wars and there are some war resolutions
I can go look up if you really need the votes.

and how many would have done so if bush hadn't LIED??

When did Bush lie, was it ever proven in court because that's the line
you demand for democrats? In other words, your arguments are based on
intellectuality dishonest fantasy...



They were the same ones who
criticized GHWB for not chasing the Iraqis all the way to Baghdad in
1991. These are the ones who are backed by AIPAC and have never seen a
war against Muslims that they didn't like.

and how many were president?

oh. zero.

how many were commander in chief?

zero.


See above.

you bet


not quite sure. GOP is more conservative than the dems are liberal, so
there's a right wing tilt to the senate:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42993395...h-health_care/

ben nelson and blanche lincoln both have ACU ratings of 48%-46%

Ah Nelson, the Cornhusker kickback guy? Great example of the flaws in
the health care bill.

yep, nelson's the most conservative dem. figures he's unprincipled

most right wingers are.

Yeah the technical detain is OBL was in Pakistan and it was not a
150,000 man army that got him., It was a small team of special ops
people. That is what we should have been doing all along.

and obama has been moving in that direction as well, which is why the
number of these operations has increased, along with increased drone
strikes. but you dont just cut and run

How many GIs have to die before you decide it is a waste of capital.

how many new yorkers have to die before you decide it wasnt?

You sound like Nixon now. Do we want "Peace with Honor"?
That cost us about 30,000 guys and we still lost.

gee. i just missed being drafted for vietnam. i got over vietnam
syndrome

you havent


and yet if we dont stablize afghanistan, the taliban will return, they
will set up operations with al qaida and we'll have pakistin and
afghanistan to deal with

The taliban is going to return. We have no way to stop them.

sure we do. we set up a dictatorship that's a ruthless killer. it's
been done before

how much luck did al qaida have in iraq?

none.


The Taliban had nothing to do with 9-11. Most of them still have never
even heard of it.

sure they did. in fact, you lost all credibility when you made that
statement

OBL was living in kabul on 9/11. when mullah omar was ordered by the
US to turn over OBL, he refused, saying OBL was a guest in afghanist

so your statement is wrong. and it's like saying the japanese had no
responsibility for hte attack on pearl harbor

That is total bull****. The japs were flying the planes that attacked
Pear Harbor. There were ZERO Taliban guys on the planes on 9-11, nor
were they really involved in the plot at all. To use your logic, we
should declare war on Pakistan today

now let's see

OBL was living in afghanistan

he planned the attack from there with his conspirators

you DO know that, if you are engaged in a conspiracy you are as guilty
if you PLAN it as those who carry it out....that's the law.

so you're an appeaser. you're the only moron ive seen who loves the
taliban



If your excuse for invading Afghanistan was just that they sheltered
OBL, what do you have to say about Pakistan?

mullah omar was the HEAD Of the taliban. and there are no nukes in
afghanistan. so there's NO eivdence the HEAD Of govt in pakistan knew
ANYTHING about OBL. the ISI certainly did, but this just means we have
to be at war with pakistan in a different way.

So you think the only reason we attacked Afghanistan is because they
don't have any nukes.

that's a pretty good start.



Killing taliban is like stepping on ants. It may make you feel like
you are doing something but you are at war with their birth rate.
Some day soon the population is going to throw Karzai out and they
will blame us for letting him stay there so long ... just like the
Egyptians

depends. if karzai is content to kill taliban and they are willing to
try and kill him, then we have a stand off. which is a win for us. as
long as we deny afghanistan to the taliban, we win.

Karzai is supporting theTaliban.That dog don't hunt.

ROFLMAO!! they're trying to kill him and he's supporting them?

uh...OK..

so far all you've told us is what great guys the taliban are and how
OBL was innocent

any other delusions you got?



--
Team Rowdy Mouse, Banned from the Mall for life!

On Mon, 16 May 2011 23:45:55 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 16 May 2011 18:01:59 -0400, wf3h wrote:

On Mon, 16 May 2011 00:14:16 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 15 May 2011 16:07:44 -0400, wf3h wrote:

On Sun, 15 May 2011 14:48:28 -0400, wrote:


and yet the GOP got 70% of wall street money when the DEMS started to
regulate wall street. and they got a pay off. the GOP is fighting any
regulation at all.

I guess 68 is close to 70 but the point is that it was the gop going
off the reservation, fighting the bailout, so they needed the bribes.
The dems were solidly in the bag.

so it's OK when the GOP gets bribed to do wall street's bidding

but when the dems tell wall street to shove it, that proves they'e
doing what wall street wants

uh....OK...

I do not see the Dems telling anyone to shove it. They are the same to
me when it comes to Wall Street. You saw where the money went in 08.

Obama is doing exactly what the GOP would do and so did Clinton. That
is why the big money didn't take a serious swing at either of them.
Come on. MCain/Palin? Dole/Kemp?
That is a party that didn't want it very bad.

Really? Exactly the same? Wow. That's shockingly narrow-minded and
total BS.



I am not running from anything. There were plenty of neocon democrats
who were eager to have a war with Iraq.
\
how many were president?

oh. zero.

Congress has to pay for those wars and there are some war resolutions
I can go look up if you really need the votes.

and how many would have done so if bush hadn't LIED??

Clinton, Schumer and Lieberman were right behind him cheering him on.
You have plenty of neocons on your side.

Total BS.


They were the same ones who
criticized GHWB for not chasing the Iraqis all the way to Baghdad in
1991. These are the ones who are backed by AIPAC and have never seen a
war against Muslims that they didn't like.

and how many were president?

oh. zero.

how many were commander in chief?

zero.


See above.

you bet







Yeah the technical detain is OBL was in Pakistan and it was not a
150,000 man army that got him., It was a small team of special ops
people. That is what we should have been doing all along.

and obama has been moving in that direction as well, which is why the
number of these operations has increased, along with increased drone
strikes. but you dont just cut and run

How many GIs have to die before you decide it is a waste of capital.

how many new yorkers have to die before you decide it wasnt?

You are waging a war on people who had nothing to do with it.
Bin Laden was in Afghanistan but he left almost 10 years ago.
As far as we know Karzai was covering for him too and we are backing
Karzai.

So, you're claiming the Taliban didn't harbor OBL and was never
involved in terrorism... wow.

You sound like Nixon now. Do we want "Peace with Honor"?
That cost us about 30,000 guys and we still lost.

gee. i just missed being drafted for vietnam. i got over vietnam
syndrome

you havent

Pity. The people who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
and yet if we dont stablize afghanistan, the taliban will return, they
will set up operations with al qaida and we'll have pakistin and
afghanistan to deal with

The taliban is going to return. We have no way to stop them.

sure we do. we set up a dictatorship that's a ruthless killer. it's
been done before

how much luck did al qaida have in iraq?

none.

So now you are saying you like brutal dictatorships? Nice.
Maybe we should have backed Mubarak and we should be backing Qdaffy.
I guess we should have dusted off Saddam, made him promise to be good
and put him back in the palace.

No, we should have attacked him for being absolutely no threat to us
or our allies.

... except he was giving the family of any suicide bomber who
attacked Israel $25,000

Except that Israel was doing just fine. Feel free to keep justifying a
war of choice and lying to the American people (and the world).


The Taliban had nothing to do with 9-11. Most of them still have never
even heard of it.

sure they did. in fact, you lost all credibility when you made that
statement

OBL was living in kabul on 9/11. when mullah omar was ordered by the
US to turn over OBL, he refused, saying OBL was a guest in afghanist

so your statement is wrong. and it's like saying the japanese had no
responsibility for hte attack on pearl harbor

That is total bull****. The japs were flying the planes that attacked
Pear Harbor. There were ZERO Taliban guys on the planes on 9-11, nor
were they really involved in the plot at all. To use your logic, we
should declare war on Pakistan today

now let's see

OBL was living in afghanistan

he planned the attack from there with his conspirators

you DO know that, if you are engaged in a conspiracy you are as guilty
if you PLAN it as those who carry it out....that's the law.

so you're an appeaser. you're the only moron ive seen who loves the
taliban
The Taliban is in Pakistan too, as was OBL. Do you want to attack them
too?

Sounds like you do. Are you even aware of the nuanced situation?
Sounds like you aren't.



If your excuse for invading Afghanistan was just that they sheltered
OBL, what do you have to say about Pakistan?

mullah omar was the HEAD Of the taliban. and there are no nukes in
afghanistan. so there's NO eivdence the HEAD Of govt in pakistan knew
ANYTHING about OBL. the ISI certainly did, but this just means we have
to be at war with pakistan in a different way.

So you think the only reason we attacked Afghanistan is because they
don't have any nukes.

that's a pretty good start.



Killing taliban is like stepping on ants. It may make you feel like
you are doing something but you are at war with their birth rate.
Some day soon the population is going to throw Karzai out and they
will blame us for letting him stay there so long ... just like the
Egyptians

depends. if karzai is content to kill taliban and they are willing to
try and kill him, then we have a stand off. which is a win for us. as
long as we deny afghanistan to the taliban, we win.

Karzai is supporting theTaliban.That dog don't hunt.

ROFLMAO!! they're trying to kill him and he's supporting them?

uh...OK..

so far all you've told us is what great guys the taliban are and how
OBL was innocent

any other delusions you got?

Karzai is for anyone who is paying him. If that is Taliban, he is
Taliban

On Tue, 17 May 2011 01:52:10 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 16 May 2011 21:54:45 -0700, wrote:

On Mon, 16 May 2011 23:45:55 -0400, wrote:



I do not see the Dems telling anyone to shove it. They are the same to
me when it comes to Wall Street. You saw where the money went in 08.

Obama is doing exactly what the GOP would do and so did Clinton. That
is why the big money didn't take a serious swing at either of them.
Come on. MCain/Palin? Dole/Kemp?
That is a party that didn't want it very bad.

Really? Exactly the same? Wow. That's shockingly narrow-minded and
total BS.

In regard to the industries I listed in this thread (this note and
others), what is the difference?
Obama brought GW Bush's economic team and his financial policy over
virtually unchanged. The Democratic Senate gave us a health care bill
that was little more than a gift to the insurance and health care
provider corporations. The military industrial complex is still
chugging along unchecked.
All you have to do is look who gave the dems their money in 2008 to
see why.

You're going to claim it was the Dems fault that the less than perfect
healthcare bill was passed? It was fought tooth and nail by the
Republicans, who received the lion's share of the lobbying money.

Obama replaced many of the senior people at Treasury and in his
cabinet. Too bad reality hurts. Obama continued what Bush started re
not letting the US/World economies collapse, sure.

Gates has struggled to end many of the military industrial complex
projects, e.g., the new air force fighter.
Clinton was the best "big business" president since Herbert Hoover but
Obama is catching up to him pretty fast. That leaves the GOP with
nothing but a few emotional issues to run on.

Pretty different situation though isn't it. The economy was actually
doing pretty well under Clinton. Obama is definitely pro business or
is he a Marxist? It's hard to tell when you listen to your right wing
friends. So, either he's so pro business that he's ruining the economy
or he's such a leftist that he's ruining the economy. Basically,
that's your argument.



I am not running from anything. There were plenty of neocon democrats
who were eager to have a war with Iraq.
\
how many were president?

oh. zero.

Congress has to pay for those wars and there are some war resolutions
I can go look up if you really need the votes.

and how many would have done so if bush hadn't LIED??

Clinton, Schumer and Lieberman were right behind him cheering him on.
You have plenty of neocons on your side.

Total BS.

Do you want me to go get the Iraq war resolution vote? I could get the
congressional record transcripts of the debate.
I won't even charge you $350
I just bet you would change the subject.

After being lied to by Bush/Cheney.... interesting how you forget that
part when it's convenient.


Yeah the technical detain is OBL was in Pakistan and it was not a
150,000 man army that got him., It was a small team of special ops
people. That is what we should have been doing all along.

and obama has been moving in that direction as well, which is why the
number of these operations has increased, along with increased drone
strikes. but you dont just cut and run

How many GIs have to die before you decide it is a waste of capital.

how many new yorkers have to die before you decide it wasnt?

You are waging a war on people who had nothing to do with it.
Bin Laden was in Afghanistan but he left almost 10 years ago.
As far as we know Karzai was covering for him too and we are backing
Karzai.

So, you're claiming the Taliban didn't harbor OBL and was never
involved in terrorism... wow.

No I am saying the same government we are currently propping up
probably had as much to do with OBL being there as this nebulous
concept of the taliban.
If harboring OBL is a crime worth us spending $400 billion and a 10
year occupation why are we letting Pakistan off the hook?


Feel free to give Sec. Clinton a call and let her know. I'm sure she'd
appreciate your advice.

You sound like Nixon now. Do we want "Peace with Honor"?
That cost us about 30,000 guys and we still lost.

gee. i just missed being drafted for vietnam. i got over vietnam
syndrome

you havent

Pity. The people who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
and yet if we dont stablize afghanistan, the taliban will return, they
will set up operations with al qaida and we'll have pakistin and
afghanistan to deal with

The taliban is going to return. We have no way to stop them.

sure we do. we set up a dictatorship that's a ruthless killer. it's
been done before

how much luck did al qaida have in iraq?

none.

So now you are saying you like brutal dictatorships? Nice.
Maybe we should have backed Mubarak and we should be backing Qdaffy.
I guess we should have dusted off Saddam, made him promise to be good
and put him back in the palace.

No, we should have attacked him for being absolutely no threat to us
or our allies.

... except he was giving the family of any suicide bomber who
attacked Israel $25,000

Except that Israel was doing just fine. Feel free to keep justifying a
war of choice and lying to the American people (and the world).

Afghanistan was a war of choice too. I have been telling you for a
year, if we just want to kill OBL and other terrorist leaders, covert
operation is a lot more effective than a 150,000 troop, $400 billion
dollar war with Islam.

No it wasn't. You know that, but you're still defending Bush's failed
policy of ignoring that country in pursuit of Saddam.


The Taliban had nothing to do with 9-11. Most of them still have never
even heard of it.

sure they did. in fact, you lost all credibility when you made that
statement

OBL was living in kabul on 9/11. when mullah omar was ordered by the
US to turn over OBL, he refused, saying OBL was a guest in afghanist

so your statement is wrong. and it's like saying the japanese had no
responsibility for hte attack on pearl harbor

That is total bull****. The japs were flying the planes that attacked
Pear Harbor. There were ZERO Taliban guys on the planes on 9-11, nor
were they really involved in the plot at all. To use your logic, we
should declare war on Pakistan today

now let's see

OBL was living in afghanistan

he planned the attack from there with his conspirators

you DO know that, if you are engaged in a conspiracy you are as guilty
if you PLAN it as those who carry it out....that's the law.

so you're an appeaser. you're the only moron ive seen who loves the
taliban
The Taliban is in Pakistan too, as was OBL. Do you want to attack them
too?

Sounds like you do. Are you even aware of the nuanced situation?
Sounds like you aren't.

There is not much nuance when you have 150,000 occupiers in a country
for no good reason

Some day soon Obama will tell you this and you will believe it ... I
hope.

Umm... we're in Afg. not Pakistan. Try to keep up.

On Tue, 17 May 2011 15:46:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 17 May 2011 10:34:15 -0700, wrote:

On Tue, 17 May 2011 01:52:10 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 16 May 2011 21:54:45 -0700, wrote:

On Mon, 16 May 2011 23:45:55 -0400, wrote:



I do not see the Dems telling anyone to shove it. They are the same to
me when it comes to Wall Street. You saw where the money went in 08.

Obama is doing exactly what the GOP would do and so did Clinton. That
is why the big money didn't take a serious swing at either of them.
Come on. MCain/Palin? Dole/Kemp?
That is a party that didn't want it very bad.

Really? Exactly the same? Wow. That's shockingly narrow-minded and
total BS.

In regard to the industries I listed in this thread (this note and
others), what is the difference?
Obama brought GW Bush's economic team and his financial policy over
virtually unchanged. The Democratic Senate gave us a health care bill
that was little more than a gift to the insurance and health care
provider corporations. The military industrial complex is still
chugging along unchecked.
All you have to do is look who gave the dems their money in 2008 to
see why.

You're going to claim it was the Dems fault that the less than perfect
healthcare bill was passed? It was fought tooth and nail by the
Republicans, who received the lion's share of the lobbying money.

Two wrong statements does not make it right

The Dems got more of the health care money in 2008
From the top 100 Amount Dem Rep
Blue Cross/Blue Shield $3,847,104 49% 51%
American Hospital Assn $2,797,733 61% 39%
American Dental Assn $2,562,690 53% 47%
Pfizer Inc $2,338,950 51% 49%
American Medical Assn $1,921,047 56% 44%

and the GOP was not even in the room when Baucus wrote the bill that
was passed by the senate. The dems knew they were going to pass it
without any GOP votes so I am not sure how they were relevant.

Firstly, it seems pretty evenly divided in 2008. Secondly, the
Republicans "not in the room" is load of hogwash. They got lots of
input and many of their suggestions were incorporated. That's right
wing nonsense.


Obama replaced many of the senior people at Treasury and in his
cabinet. Too bad reality hurts. Obama continued what Bush started re
not letting the US/World economies collapse, sure.

The top guys are still Wall Street insiders.
You are just parroting Paulson about the world collapsing if we did
not bail out Goldman Sachs. There were plenty of other ways we could
have spent 3/4ths of a trillion dollars and not making those rich
people you hate richer. Most millionaires are in finance and they are
really the only ones who made out in the bail out.

Yet, being a WS insider is not the same thing as keeping the same
people. So, you just made it up. Paulson, despite his poor
performance, was right, and Bush was right to listen to him.

Yeah, everyone is dumb and/or corrupt except you.

Gates has struggled to end many of the military industrial complex
projects, e.g., the new air force fighter.

Yet he still defends 3 bad wars

Nope. He didn't. Which 3? Oh, you must mean Libya. Another right wing
fantasy that we're going in next week. Never mind.



Clinton was the best "big business" president since Herbert Hoover but
Obama is catching up to him pretty fast. That leaves the GOP with
nothing but a few emotional issues to run on.

Pretty different situation though isn't it. The economy was actually
doing pretty well under Clinton. Obama is definitely pro business or
is he a Marxist? It's hard to tell when you listen to your right wing
friends. So, either he's so pro business that he's ruining the economy
or he's such a leftist that he's ruining the economy. Basically,
that's your argument.

The economy looked pretty vibrant but it was based on corporate
"profits" that turned out to actually be because of downsizing,
selling off capital assets and a huge amount of simple fraud.
During that time Clinton was overseeing the gutting of financial
regulations and the exporting of our industry and our jobs.
Herbert Hoover would be proud.

Sure. Except employment was up, business was booming, everything was
going smoothly. Therefore, it's all Clinton's fault because he got a
blow job.


I am not running from anything. There were plenty of neocon democrats
who were eager to have a war with Iraq.
\
how many were president?

oh. zero.

Congress has to pay for those wars and there are some war resolutions
I can go look up if you really need the votes.

and how many would have done so if bush hadn't LIED??

Clinton, Schumer and Lieberman were right behind him cheering him on.
You have plenty of neocons on your side.

Total BS.

Do you want me to go get the Iraq war resolution vote? I could get the
congressional record transcripts of the debate.
I won't even charge you $350
I just bet you would change the subject.

After being lied to by Bush/Cheney.... interesting how you forget that
part when it's convenient.

Hillary and Chuck were on the Senate intelligence committee. They saw
the same reports as Bush did.
Did they lie too?

Yep, right after Cheney's 5000 visit to Langley.

Yeah the technical detain is OBL was in Pakistan and it was not a
150,000 man army that got him., It was a small team of special ops
people. That is what we should have been doing all along.

and obama has been moving in that direction as well, which is why the
number of these operations has increased, along with increased drone
strikes. but you dont just cut and run

How many GIs have to die before you decide it is a waste of capital.

how many new yorkers have to die before you decide it wasnt?

You are waging a war on people who had nothing to do with it.
Bin Laden was in Afghanistan but he left almost 10 years ago.
As far as we know Karzai was covering for him too and we are backing
Karzai.

So, you're claiming the Taliban didn't harbor OBL and was never
involved in terrorism... wow.

No I am saying the same government we are currently propping up
probably had as much to do with OBL being there as this nebulous
concept of the taliban.
If harboring OBL is a crime worth us spending $400 billion and a 10
year occupation why are we letting Pakistan off the hook?


Feel free to give Sec. Clinton a call and let her know. I'm sure she'd
appreciate your advice.

I suppose she is the one who released the report that is on CNN as we
speak. It says the Al Qaeda people OBL was talking to are in Yemen,
not Afghanistan.
We have 150,000 people chasing terrorists who are 1500 miles away.

I guess you never heard that AQ is not a centrally located
organization.

You sound like Nixon now. Do we want "Peace with Honor"?
That cost us about 30,000 guys and we still lost.

gee. i just missed being drafted for vietnam. i got over vietnam
syndrome

you havent

Pity. The people who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
and yet if we dont stablize afghanistan, the taliban will return, they
will set up operations with al qaida and we'll have pakistin and
afghanistan to deal with

The taliban is going to return. We have no way to stop them.

sure we do. we set up a dictatorship that's a ruthless killer. it's
been done before

how much luck did al qaida have in iraq?

none.

So now you are saying you like brutal dictatorships? Nice.
Maybe we should have backed Mubarak and we should be backing Qdaffy.
I guess we should have dusted off Saddam, made him promise to be good
and put him back in the palace.

No, we should have attacked him for being absolutely no threat to us
or our allies.

... except he was giving the family of any suicide bomber who
attacked Israel $25,000

Except that Israel was doing just fine. Feel free to keep justifying a
war of choice and lying to the American people (and the world).

Afghanistan was a war of choice too. I have been telling you for a
year, if we just want to kill OBL and other terrorist leaders, covert
operation is a lot more effective than a 150,000 troop, $400 billion
dollar war with Islam.

No it wasn't. You know that, but you're still defending Bush's failed
policy of ignoring that country in pursuit of Saddam.

You keep acting like I supported the Iraq war. You are either not
paying attention or you are just ignoring it because it interferes
with you ranting about the only thing you have.

Feel free to defend Bush any way you want.


The Taliban had nothing to do with 9-11. Most of them still have never
even heard of it.

sure they did. in fact, you lost all credibility when you made that
statement

OBL was living in kabul on 9/11. when mullah omar was ordered by the
US to turn over OBL, he refused, saying OBL was a guest in afghanist

so your statement is wrong. and it's like saying the japanese had no
responsibility for hte attack on pearl harbor

That is total bull****. The japs were flying the planes that attacked
Pear Harbor. There were ZERO Taliban guys on the planes on 9-11, nor
were they really involved in the plot at all. To use your logic, we
should declare war on Pakistan today

now let's see

OBL was living in afghanistan

he planned the attack from there with his conspirators

you DO know that, if you are engaged in a conspiracy you are as guilty
if you PLAN it as those who carry it out....that's the law.

so you're an appeaser. you're the only moron ive seen who loves the
taliban
The Taliban is in Pakistan too, as was OBL. Do you want to attack them
too?

Sounds like you do. Are you even aware of the nuanced situation?
Sounds like you aren't.

There is not much nuance when you have 150,000 occupiers in a country
for no good reason

Some day soon Obama will tell you this and you will believe it ... I
hope.

Umm... we're in Afg. not Pakistan. Try to keep up.

The terrorists OBL was working with are in Yemen. You are the one who
is not keeping up.

Sounds like you're changing the subject. First it was Afg., then
Pakistan, now you're all hot in the head about Yemen. Whatever.

On Tue, 17 May 2011 21:16:54 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 17 May 2011 16:04:16 -0700, wrote:

On Tue, 17 May 2011 15:46:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 17 May 2011 10:34:15 -0700, wrote:


In regard to the industries I listed in this thread (this note and
others), what is the difference?
Obama brought GW Bush's economic team and his financial policy over
virtually unchanged. The Democratic Senate gave us a health care bill
that was little more than a gift to the insurance and health care
provider corporations. The military industrial complex is still
chugging along unchecked.
All you have to do is look who gave the dems their money in 2008 to
see why.

You're going to claim it was the Dems fault that the less than perfect
healthcare bill was passed? It was fought tooth and nail by the
Republicans, who received the lion's share of the lobbying money.

Two wrong statements does not make it right

The Dems got more of the health care money in 2008
From the top 100 Amount Dem Rep
Blue Cross/Blue Shield $3,847,104 49% 51%
American Hospital Assn $2,797,733 61% 39%
American Dental Assn $2,562,690 53% 47%
Pfizer Inc $2,338,950 51% 49%
American Medical Assn $1,921,047 56% 44%

and the GOP was not even in the room when Baucus wrote the bill that
was passed by the senate. The dems knew they were going to pass it
without any GOP votes so I am not sure how they were relevant.

Firstly, it seems pretty evenly divided in 2008.
Then the GOP didn't get "the lion's share" did it? They didn't even
get half.

In 2008. How about all the other years?

Secondly, the
Republicans "not in the room" is load of hogwash. They got lots of
input and many of their suggestions were incorporated.

Maybe you should explain that to Howard Dean. He was head of your
party when he said the bill was written in Max Baucus' office by two
WellPoint lobbyists.
You are thinking about the house bill that was thrown away.

It was not "thrown away." Another nonsense statement from someone bent
on supporting extremist points of view?

Obama replaced many of the senior people at Treasury and in his
cabinet. Too bad reality hurts. Obama continued what Bush started re
not letting the US/World economies collapse, sure.

The top guys are still Wall Street insiders.
You are just parroting Paulson about the world collapsing if we did
not bail out Goldman Sachs. There were plenty of other ways we could
have spent 3/4ths of a trillion dollars and not making those rich
people you hate richer. Most millionaires are in finance and they are
really the only ones who made out in the bail out.

Yet, being a WS insider is not the same thing as keeping the same
people. So, you just made it up. Paulson, despite his poor
performance, was right, and Bush was right to listen to him.

Yeah, everyone is dumb and/or corrupt except you.

This has been a "no recovery" recovery for most of the people and the
only thing we have to prove Paulson was right is him saying so.


Untrue as usual. We would have been much worse off. I know that
doesn't play in lots of places because people are still hurting, but
the economy is getting better.


Gates has struggled to end many of the military industrial complex
projects, e.g., the new air force fighter.

Yet he still defends 3 bad wars

Nope. He didn't. Which 3? Oh, you must mean Libya. Another right wing
fantasy that we're going in next week. Never mind.

How do you think Libya is going to end?

No idea. You're the Oracle of Florida.


Clinton was the best "big business" president since Herbert Hoover but
Obama is catching up to him pretty fast. That leaves the GOP with
nothing but a few emotional issues to run on.

Pretty different situation though isn't it. The economy was actually
doing pretty well under Clinton. Obama is definitely pro business or
is he a Marxist? It's hard to tell when you listen to your right wing
friends. So, either he's so pro business that he's ruining the economy
or he's such a leftist that he's ruining the economy. Basically,
that's your argument.

The economy looked pretty vibrant but it was based on corporate
"profits" that turned out to actually be because of downsizing,
selling off capital assets and a huge amount of simple fraud.
During that time Clinton was overseeing the gutting of financial
regulations and the exporting of our industry and our jobs.
Herbert Hoover would be proud.

Sure. Except employment was up, business was booming, everything was
going smoothly. Therefore, it's all Clinton's fault because he got a
blow job.

That sounds great but you are ignoring the fact that we were losing
high tech jobs at a record rate to downsizing. IBM laid off 50,000
people from the technical staff between 1992 and 1996. The RBOCs
(telephone companies if you are unfamiliar with the term) laid off
more than that.

So, the economy is doing fine. The debt is zero or nearly so, but
Clinton failed. Got it.

Unemployment was low because so many people took buyouts and went into
early retirement.
Part of those deals made it impossible to collect unemployment.
Instead of "employees" they got "contractors" (no benefits, no job
security and the contractor pays his own FICA). Sweet for the
corporation. It is no wonder there were record profits.
That was reflected in great stock prices, but it turns out some of
those "profits" were fraud.
The stock market looked great but we had a crash in 2000 that took
half of the value away from the NASDAQ. when the investors figured out
the profits were not real.
If we had not created all of those Wall Street tricks, borrowing to
fund the real estate bubble we would have been in recession in most of
the 2000s.
You seem obsessed with the blowjobs (I won't make that joke)
The thing that got screwed was US industrial capacity.

Again, Clinton's fault. You seem obsessed with trashing one of the
best presidents we've had in a long time.

The 90s was when US corporations figured out all the money was to be
made by dismantling factories and shipping them offshore. GHWB and
Clinton assured they had trade agreements to make it largely tariff
free when the products came back.
We are paying for that now as money is flying out of the country and
we have to borrow it back.

Yeah, I guess Reagan had no hand in our problems. Sure.


I am not running from anything. There were plenty of neocon democrats
who were eager to have a war with Iraq.
\
how many were president?

oh. zero.

Congress has to pay for those wars and there are some war resolutions
I can go look up if you really need the votes.

and how many would have done so if bush hadn't LIED??

Clinton, Schumer and Lieberman were right behind him cheering him on.
You have plenty of neocons on your side.

Total BS.

Do you want me to go get the Iraq war resolution vote? I could get the
congressional record transcripts of the debate.
I won't even charge you $350
I just bet you would change the subject.

After being lied to by Bush/Cheney.... interesting how you forget that
part when it's convenient.

Hillary and Chuck were on the Senate intelligence committee. They saw
the same reports as Bush did.
Did they lie too?

Yep, right after Cheney's 5000 visit to Langley.

So now you agree H. Clinton and Schumer lied too. OK

No. They were mislead, as I said. Keep trying to change what I said if
it makes you feel better.


Yeah the technical detain is OBL was in Pakistan and it was not a
150,000 man army that got him., It was a small team of special ops
people. That is what we should have been doing all along.

and obama has been moving in that direction as well, which is why the
number of these operations has increased, along with increased drone
strikes. but you dont just cut and run

How many GIs have to die before you decide it is a waste of capital.

how many new yorkers have to die before you decide it wasnt?

You are waging a war on people who had nothing to do with it.
Bin Laden was in Afghanistan but he left almost 10 years ago.
As far as we know Karzai was covering for him too and we are backing
Karzai.

So, you're claiming the Taliban didn't harbor OBL and was never
involved in terrorism... wow.

No I am saying the same government we are currently propping up
probably had as much to do with OBL being there as this nebulous
concept of the taliban.
If harboring OBL is a crime worth us spending $400 billion and a 10
year occupation why are we letting Pakistan off the hook?


Feel free to give Sec. Clinton a call and let her know. I'm sure she'd
appreciate your advice.

I suppose she is the one who released the report that is on CNN as we
speak. It says the Al Qaeda people OBL was talking to are in Yemen,
not Afghanistan.
We have 150,000 people chasing terrorists who are 1500 miles away.

I guess you never heard that AQ is not a centrally located
organization.

Yet we have 150,000 soldiers chasing them in one country where their
presence is minimal to non-existent. That is a good use of a couple
hundred billion isn't it?

No. They're not chasing AQ. They're fighting the Taliban for the most
part, who would let AQ back in in an instant. Re-read Gate's
commentary, this time for meaning.


There is not much nuance when you have 150,000 occupiers in a country
for no good reason

Some day soon Obama will tell you this and you will believe it ... I
hope.

Umm... we're in Afg. not Pakistan. Try to keep up.

The terrorists OBL was working with are in Yemen. You are the one who
is not keeping up.


Sounds like you're changing the subject. First it was Afg., then
Pakistan, now you're all hot in the head about Yemen. Whatever.


I am reacting to today's news, you are still living in 2003. You still
think GW Bush is president.

You still venerate him, apparently.

wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2011 19:55:16 -0700, wrote:

On Tue, 17 May 2011 21:16:54 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 17 May 2011 16:04:16 -0700, wrote:

On Tue, 17 May 2011 15:46:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 17 May 2011 10:34:15 -0700, wrote:

In regard to the industries I listed in this thread (this note and
others), what is the difference?
Obama brought GW Bush's economic team and his financial policy over
virtually unchanged. The Democratic Senate gave us a health care bill
that was little more than a gift to the insurance and health care
provider corporations. The military industrial complex is still
chugging along unchecked.
All you have to do is look who gave the dems their money in 2008 to
see why.
You're going to claim it was the Dems fault that the less than perfect
healthcare bill was passed? It was fought tooth and nail by the
Republicans, who received the lion's share of the lobbying money.
Two wrong statements does not make it right

The Dems got more of the health care money in 2008
From the top 100 Amount Dem Rep
Blue Cross/Blue Shield $3,847,104 49% 51%
American Hospital Assn $2,797,733 61% 39%
American Dental Assn $2,562,690 53% 47%
Pfizer Inc $2,338,950 51% 49%
American Medical Assn $1,921,047 56% 44%

and the GOP was not even in the room when Baucus wrote the bill that
was passed by the senate. The dems knew they were going to pass it
without any GOP votes so I am not sure how they were relevant.
Firstly, it seems pretty evenly divided in 2008.
Then the GOP didn't get "the lion's share" did it? They didn't even
get half.
In 2008. How about all the other years?

This is the cycle that brought you the health care bill.

Secondly, the
Republicans "not in the room" is load of hogwash. They got lots of
input and many of their suggestions were incorporated.
Maybe you should explain that to Howard Dean. He was head of your
party when he said the bill was written in Max Baucus' office by two
WellPoint lobbyists.
You are thinking about the house bill that was thrown away.
It was not "thrown away." Another nonsense statement from someone bent
on supporting extremist points of view?

I agree it wasn't "thrown away", it is still around somewhere but it
had nothing to do with the bill that did pass.
The Senate said it was DOA because they couldn't even find enough
Democrats to pass it with a filibuster proof Senate.

Obama replaced many of the senior people at Treasury and in his
cabinet. Too bad reality hurts. Obama continued what Bush started re
not letting the US/World economies collapse, sure.
The top guys are still Wall Street insiders.
You are just parroting Paulson about the world collapsing if we did
not bail out Goldman Sachs. There were plenty of other ways we could
have spent 3/4ths of a trillion dollars and not making those rich
people you hate richer. Most millionaires are in finance and they are
really the only ones who made out in the bail out.
Yet, being a WS insider is not the same thing as keeping the same
people. So, you just made it up. Paulson, despite his poor
performance, was right, and Bush was right to listen to him.
Yeah, everyone is dumb and/or corrupt except you.
This has been a "no recovery" recovery for most of the people and the
only thing we have to prove Paulson was right is him saying so.

Untrue as usual. We would have been much worse off. I know that
doesn't play in lots of places because people are still hurting, but
the economy is getting better.

You can argue that out with Bob. He will tell you,The only people who
are doing well are the fat cats and most of them are in the financial
industry.
Wall street firms are getting record bonuses but real unemployment and
underemployment is 16-17%. Foreclosures are still moving along at
record rates and the banks are still not loaning out any of that money
the government gave them unless it is to credit card holders at 29.9%.


Gates has struggled to end many of the military industrial complex
projects, e.g., the new air force fighter.
Yet he still defends 3 bad wars
Nope. He didn't. Which 3? Oh, you must mean Libya. Another right wing
fantasy that we're going in next week. Never mind.
How do you think Libya is going to end?
No idea.

Yet you have an opinion.

Clinton was the best "big business" president since Herbert Hoover but
Obama is catching up to him pretty fast. That leaves the GOP with
nothing but a few emotional issues to run on.
Pretty different situation though isn't it. The economy was actually
doing pretty well under Clinton. Obama is definitely pro business or
is he a Marxist? It's hard to tell when you listen to your right wing
friends. So, either he's so pro business that he's ruining the economy
or he's such a leftist that he's ruining the economy. Basically,
that's your argument.
The economy looked pretty vibrant but it was based on corporate
"profits" that turned out to actually be because of downsizing,
selling off capital assets and a huge amount of simple fraud.
During that time Clinton was overseeing the gutting of financial
regulations and the exporting of our industry and our jobs.
Herbert Hoover would be proud.
Sure. Except employment was up, business was booming, everything was
going smoothly. Therefore, it's all Clinton's fault because he got a
blow job.
That sounds great but you are ignoring the fact that we were losing
high tech jobs at a record rate to downsizing. IBM laid off 50,000
people from the technical staff between 1992 and 1996. The RBOCs
(telephone companies if you are unfamiliar with the term) laid off
more than that.
So, the economy is doing fine. The debt is zero or nearly so, but
Clinton failed. Got it.

Debt was zero? Bull****. Debt accrued almost $2T during the Clinton
administration. (about the same as Reagan)

Unemployment was low because so many people took buyouts and went into
early retirement.
Part of those deals made it impossible to collect unemployment.
Instead of "employees" they got "contractors" (no benefits, no job
security and the contractor pays his own FICA). Sweet for the
corporation. It is no wonder there were record profits.
That was reflected in great stock prices, but it turns out some of
those "profits" were fraud.
The stock market looked great but we had a crash in 2000 that took
half of the value away from the NASDAQ. when the investors figured out
the profits were not real.
If we had not created all of those Wall Street tricks, borrowing to
fund the real estate bubble we would have been in recession in most of
the 2000s.
You seem obsessed with the blowjobs (I won't make that joke)
The thing that got screwed was US industrial capacity.
Again, Clinton's fault. You seem obsessed with trashing one of the
best presidents we've had in a long time.

He was great if you like big business. If you were a middle class
worker with a good job that you lost, not so much

The 90s was when US corporations figured out all the money was to be
made by dismantling factories and shipping them offshore. GHWB and
Clinton assured they had trade agreements to make it largely tariff
free when the products came back.
We are paying for that now as money is flying out of the country and
we have to borrow it back.
Yeah, I guess Reagan had no hand in our problems. Sure.

NAFTA was GHWB and Clinton, GATT was all Clinton. What did Reagan do
to ship jobs offshore?

I am not running from anything. There were plenty of neocon democrats
who were eager to have a war with Iraq.
\
how many were president?

oh. zero.
Congress has to pay for those wars and there are some war resolutions
I can go look up if you really need the votes.
and how many would have done so if bush hadn't LIED??
Clinton, Schumer and Lieberman were right behind him cheering him on.
You have plenty of neocons on your side.
Total BS.
Do you want me to go get the Iraq war resolution vote? I could get the
congressional record transcripts of the debate.
I won't even charge you $350
I just bet you would change the subject.
After being lied to by Bush/Cheney.... interesting how you forget that
part when it's convenient.
Hillary and Chuck were on the Senate intelligence committee. They saw
the same reports as Bush did.
Did they lie too?
Yep, right after Cheney's 5000 visit to Langley.
So now you agree H. Clinton and Schumer lied too. OK
No. They were mislead, as I said. Keep trying to change what I said if
it makes you feel better.

They were misled with the same intelligence that Bush saw.
Are you just saying they are as stupid as Bush? I would agree with
that.


Yeah the technical detain is OBL was in Pakistan and it was not a
150,000 man army that got him., It was a small team of special ops
people. That is what we should have been doing all along.
and obama has been moving in that direction as well, which is why the
number of these operations has increased, along with increased drone
strikes. but you dont just cut and run
How many GIs have to die before you decide it is a waste of capital.
how many new yorkers have to die before you decide it wasnt?
You are waging a war on people who had nothing to do with it.
Bin Laden was in Afghanistan but he left almost 10 years ago.
As far as we know Karzai was covering for him too and we are backing
Karzai.
So, you're claiming the Taliban didn't harbor OBL and was never
involved in terrorism... wow.
No I am saying the same government we are currently propping up
probably had as much to do with OBL being there as this nebulous
concept of the taliban.
If harboring OBL is a crime worth us spending $400 billion and a 10
year occupation why are we letting Pakistan off the hook?

Feel free to give Sec. Clinton a call and let her know. I'm sure she'd
appreciate your advice.
I suppose she is the one who released the report that is on CNN as we
speak. It says the Al Qaeda people OBL was talking to are in Yemen,
not Afghanistan.
We have 150,000 people chasing terrorists who are 1500 miles away.
I guess you never heard that AQ is not a centrally located
organization.
Yet we have 150,000 soldiers chasing them in one country where their
presence is minimal to non-existent. That is a good use of a couple
hundred billion isn't it?
No. They're not chasing AQ. They're fighting the Taliban for the most
part, who would let AQ back in in an instant. Re-read Gate's
commentary, this time for meaning.

And why are we fighting the Taliban?
It certainly is not because they supported OBL 10 years ago. We killed
or captured everyone who knew OBL, everyone who knew someone who knew
him and everyone who knew them. Now we are down to killing people who
were not even old enough in 2001 to know about 9-11
We are fighting the Taliban because we don't muslims and the way they
want to live their religion. That is racist.



The Taliban want to "live their religion" by forcing it down the throats
of others who want to live otherwise. There are similarities in that to
certain religious groups in this country.

Religious fundamentalism is almost always evil.

On Wed, 18 May 2011 06:33:22 -0400, Harryk
sent the following message
wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2011 19:55:16 -0700, wrote:

On Tue, 17 May 2011 21:16:54 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 17 May 2011 16:04:16 -0700, wrote:

On Tue, 17 May 2011 15:46:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 17 May 2011 10:34:15 -0700, wrote:

In regard to the industries I listed in this thread (this
note and
others), what is the difference?
Obama brought GW Bush's economic team and his financial
policy over
virtually unchanged. The Democratic Senate gave us a health
care bill
that was little more than a gift to the insurance and
health care
provider corporations. The military industrial complex is
still
chugging along unchecked.
All you have to do is look who gave the dems their money in
2008 to
see why.
You're going to claim it was the Dems fault that the less
than perfect
healthcare bill was passed? It was fought tooth and nail by
the
Republicans, who received the lion's share of the lobbying
money.
Two wrong statements does not make it right

The Dems got more of the health care money in 2008
From the top 100 Amount
Dem Rep
Blue Cross/Blue Shield $3,847,104 49% 51%
American Hospital Assn $2,797,733 61% 39%
American Dental Assn $2,562,690 53% 47%
Pfizer Inc $2,338,950 51% 49%
American Medical Assn $1,921,047 56% 44%

and the GOP was not even in the room when Baucus wrote the
bill that
was passed by the senate. The dems knew they were going to
pass it
without any GOP votes so I am not sure how they were relevant.
Firstly, it seems pretty evenly divided in 2008.
Then the GOP didn't get "the lion's share" did it? They didn't
even
get half.
In 2008. How about all the other years?

This is the cycle that brought you the health care bill.

Secondly, the
Republicans "not in the room" is load of hogwash. They got
lots of
input and many of their suggestions were incorporated.
Maybe you should explain that to Howard Dean. He was head of
your
party when he said the bill was written in Max Baucus' office
by two
WellPoint lobbyists.
You are thinking about the house bill that was thrown away.
It was not "thrown away." Another nonsense statement from
someone bent
on supporting extremist points of view?

I agree it wasn't "thrown away", it is still around somewhere but
it
had nothing to do with the bill that did pass.
The Senate said it was DOA because they couldn't even find enough
Democrats to pass it with a filibuster proof Senate.

Obama replaced many of the senior people at Treasury and in
his
cabinet. Too bad reality hurts. Obama continued what Bush
started re
not letting the US/World economies collapse, sure.
The top guys are still Wall Street insiders.
You are just parroting Paulson about the world collapsing if
we did
not bail out Goldman Sachs. There were plenty of other ways
we could
have spent 3/4ths of a trillion dollars and not making those
rich
people you hate richer. Most millionaires are in finance and
they are
really the only ones who made out in the bail out.
Yet, being a WS insider is not the same thing as keeping the
same
people. So, you just made it up. Paulson, despite his poor
performance, was right, and Bush was right to listen to him.
Yeah, everyone is dumb and/or corrupt except you.
This has been a "no recovery" recovery for most of the people
and the
only thing we have to prove Paulson was right is him saying so.

Untrue as usual. We would have been much worse off. I know that
doesn't play in lots of places because people are still hurting,
but
the economy is getting better.

You can argue that out with Bob. He will tell you,The only people
who
are doing well are the fat cats and most of them are in the
financial
industry.
Wall street firms are getting record bonuses but real
unemployment and
underemployment is 16-17%. Foreclosures are still moving along at
record rates and the banks are still not loaning out any of that
money
the government gave them unless it is to credit card holders at
29.9%.


Gates has struggled to end many of the military industrial
complex
projects, e.g., the new air force fighter.
Yet he still defends 3 bad wars
Nope. He didn't. Which 3? Oh, you must mean Libya. Another
right wing
fantasy that we're going in next week. Never mind.
How do you think Libya is going to end?
No idea.

Yet you have an opinion.

Clinton was the best "big business" president since Herbert
Hoover but
Obama is catching up to him pretty fast. That leaves the
GOP with
nothing but a few emotional issues to run on.
Pretty different situation though isn't it. The economy was
actually
doing pretty well under Clinton. Obama is definitely pro
business or
is he a Marxist? It's hard to tell when you listen to your
right wing
friends. So, either he's so pro business that he's ruining
the economy
or he's such a leftist that he's ruining the economy.
Basically,
that's your argument.
The economy looked pretty vibrant but it was based on
corporate
"profits" that turned out to actually be because of
downsizing,
selling off capital assets and a huge amount of simple fraud.
During that time Clinton was overseeing the gutting of
financial
regulations and the exporting of our industry and our jobs.
Herbert Hoover would be proud.
Sure. Except employment was up, business was booming,
everything was
going smoothly. Therefore, it's all Clinton's fault because he
got a
blow job.
That sounds great but you are ignoring the fact that we were
losing
high tech jobs at a record rate to downsizing. IBM laid off
50,000
people from the technical staff between 1992 and 1996. The RBOCs
(telephone companies if you are unfamiliar with the term) laid
off
more than that.
So, the economy is doing fine. The debt is zero or nearly so, but
Clinton failed. Got it.

Debt was zero? Bull****. Debt accrued almost $2T during the
Clinton
administration. (about the same as Reagan)

Unemployment was low because so many people took buyouts and
went into
early retirement.
Part of those deals made it impossible to collect unemployment.
Instead of "employees" they got "contractors" (no benefits, no
job
security and the contractor pays his own FICA). Sweet for the
corporation. It is no wonder there were record profits.
That was reflected in great stock prices, but it turns out some
of
those "profits" were fraud.
The stock market looked great but we had a crash in 2000 that
took
half of the value away from the NASDAQ. when the investors
figured out
the profits were not real.
If we had not created all of those Wall Street tricks,
borrowing to
fund the real estate bubble we would have been in recession in
most of
the 2000s.
You seem obsessed with the blowjobs (I won't make that joke)
The thing that got screwed was US industrial capacity.
Again, Clinton's fault. You seem obsessed with trashing one of
the
best presidents we've had in a long time.

He was great if you like big business. If you were a middle class
worker with a good job that you lost, not so much

The 90s was when US corporations figured out all the money was
to be
made by dismantling factories and shipping them offshore. GHWB
and
Clinton assured they had trade agreements to make it largely
tariff
free when the products came back.
We are paying for that now as money is flying out of the
country and
we have to borrow it back.
Yeah, I guess Reagan had no hand in our problems. Sure.

NAFTA was GHWB and Clinton, GATT was all Clinton. What did Reagan
do
to ship jobs offshore?

I am not running from anything. There were plenty of
neocon democrats
who were eager to have a war with Iraq.
\
how many were president?

oh. zero.
Congress has to pay for those wars and there are some
war resolutions
I can go look up if you really need the votes.
and how many would have done so if bush hadn't LIED??
Clinton, Schumer and Lieberman were right behind him
cheering him on.
You have plenty of neocons on your side.
Total BS.
Do you want me to go get the Iraq war resolution vote? I
could get the
congressional record transcripts of the debate.
I won't even charge you $350
I just bet you would change the subject.
After being lied to by Bush/Cheney.... interesting how you
forget that
part when it's convenient.
Hillary and Chuck were on the Senate intelligence committee.
They saw
the same reports as Bush did.
Did they lie too?
Yep, right after Cheney's 5000 visit to Langley.
So now you agree H. Clinton and Schumer lied too. OK
No. They were mislead, as I said. Keep trying to change what I
said if
it makes you feel better.

They were misled with the same intelligence that Bush saw.
Are you just saying they are as stupid as Bush? I would agree with
that.


Yeah the technical detain is OBL was in Pakistan and
it was not a
150,000 man army that got him., It was a small team
of special ops
people. That is what we should have been doing all
along.
and obama has been moving in that direction as well,
which is why the
number of these operations has increased, along with
increased drone
strikes. but you dont just cut and run
How many GIs have to die before you decide it is a
waste of capital.
how many new yorkers have to die before you decide it
wasnt?
You are waging a war on people who had nothing to do with
it.
Bin Laden was in Afghanistan but he left almost 10 years
ago.
As far as we know Karzai was covering for him too and we
are backing
Karzai.
So, you're claiming the Taliban didn't harbor OBL and was
never
involved in terrorism... wow.
No I am saying the same government we are currently
propping up
probably had as much to do with OBL being there as this
nebulous
concept of the taliban.
If harboring OBL is a crime worth us spending $400 billion
and a 10
year occupation why are we letting Pakistan off the hook?

Feel free to give Sec. Clinton a call and let her know. I'm
sure she'd
appreciate your advice.
I suppose she is the one who released the report that is on
CNN as we
speak. It says the Al Qaeda people OBL was talking to are in
Yemen,
not Afghanistan.
We have 150,000 people chasing terrorists who are 1500 miles
away.
I guess you never heard that AQ is not a centrally located
organization.
Yet we have 150,000 soldiers chasing them in one country where
their
presence is minimal to non-existent. That is a good use of a
couple
hundred billion isn't it?
No. They're not chasing AQ. They're fighting the Taliban for the
most
part, who would let AQ back in in an instant. Re-read Gate's
commentary, this time for meaning.

And why are we fighting the Taliban?
It certainly is not because they supported OBL 10 years ago. We
killed
or captured everyone who knew OBL, everyone who knew someone who
knew
him and everyone who knew them. Now we are down to killing people
who
were not even old enough in 2001 to know about 9-11
We are fighting the Taliban because we don't muslims and the way
they
want to live their religion. That is racist.




The Taliban want to "live their religion" by forcing it" down the
throats
of others who want to live otherwise. There are similarities in
that to
certain union groups in this country.


unions are almost always evil.

I made a few changes for you. I hope you don't mind. I'm surprised
you didn't pick up on the similarities. Modern legitmitate religions
tend to spread their word in more peaceful ways.

wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2011 06:33:22 -0400,
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2011 19:55:16 -0700, wrote:

On Tue, 17 May 2011 21:16:54 -0400, wrote:



And why are we fighting the Taliban?
It certainly is not because they supported OBL 10 years ago. We killed
or captured everyone who knew OBL, everyone who knew someone who knew
him and everyone who knew them. Now we are down to killing people who
were not even old enough in 2001 to know about 9-11
We are fighting the Taliban because we don't muslims and the way they
want to live their religion. That is racist.


The Taliban want to "live their religion" by forcing it down the throats
of others who want to live otherwise. There are similarities in that to
certain religious groups in this country.

Religious fundamentalism is almost always evil.

I am still not sure it is the job of the US to fight another country's
choice in religion, particularly when they don't really want us there
doing it.
Afghanistan is just another case of the US sanctioning a rigged
election to get a US friendly corrupt dictator in there who turns out
not to be that US friendly. The day we stop paying him, he will be
Taliban. He even said so.

I don't know that it is our fight, either. The sooner we get out of
there, the better.

On Wed, 18 May 2011 11:47:11 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 18 May 2011 06:33:22 -0400, Harryk
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2011 19:55:16 -0700, wrote:

On Tue, 17 May 2011 21:16:54 -0400, wrote:




And why are we fighting the Taliban?
It certainly is not because they supported OBL 10 years ago. We killed
or captured everyone who knew OBL, everyone who knew someone who knew
him and everyone who knew them. Now we are down to killing people who
were not even old enough in 2001 to know about 9-11
We are fighting the Taliban because we don't muslims and the way they
want to live their religion. That is racist.



The Taliban want to "live their religion" by forcing it down the throats
of others who want to live otherwise. There are similarities in that to
certain religious groups in this country.

Religious fundamentalism is almost always evil.

I am still not sure it is the job of the US to fight another country's
choice in religion, particularly when they don't really want us there
doing it.
Afghanistan is just another case of the US sanctioning a rigged
election to get a US friendly corrupt dictator in there who turns out
not to be that US friendly. The day we stop paying him, he will be
Taliban. He even said so.

It is our job to ensure the safety of the US. You seem to have no
problem letting the Taliban back in power, which would be an
invitation to OBL look-alikes to return. Feel free to argue the point
with Gates, who seems to be in a deficit compared to your knowledge
and experience.