It's corporations uber alles, nothing less. Wayne wants us to think
corporations don't talk to each other because there are virtually
unenforced regulations against doing so. He obviously spent his
working life working for a large corporation and is rationalizing it.


Wayne seems to have done quite well for himself. You don't begrudge him
his wealth, do you?

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 16:54:15 -0500, Harryk
wrote:

On 2/28/11 3:35 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 15:16:04 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:12:34 -0800, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 05:44:56 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 21:24:46 -0800, wrote:

On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 19:50:35 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 15:16:48 -0800, wrote:

Corporations are beholden to their stockholders, not the customer.

Any business is a balancing act between customers, stockholders
(owners), and employees. On top of that, throw in the government,
general public, media and financial services just for good measure.

My advice? Become a stockholder. It's very satisfying to be a
stakeholder in a well run business.

I am a large stakeholder in my own corporation, and it's run very
efficiently. But it's not in the oil industry where competitors work
in collusion. I have competitors in what's called a free market.

Any time oil/gas prices go up, it becomes very popular to think that
there is some vast conspiracy behind it. Who's fault is it when
prices go the other way as they sometimes do? There are vast numbers
of middle men involved in the production, distribution, refining and
transportation of oil. If they think prices are going up in the near
future because of a posible shortage, they do the same thing that you
and I would do, and try to buy more right now. The only collusion
involved is supply and demand.

Actually, it's pretty obvious there is a conspiracy. It isn't about
fixing prices though. It's about corps not giving a crap about this
country or its people. They attempt to rig the electoral process and
usually succeed.

You and Harry are too much with this corporate conspiracy nonsense.
Perhaps you can both go to Venezuela and help Chavez nationalize their
remaining industries.

So you believe that corps have the best interest of the US in mind? I
thought they had the best interest of their shareholders and CEOs in
mind first.

Nobody is talking about nationalizing companies, but you'd rather
deflect any discussion about reasonable regulation.


It's corporations uber alles, nothing less. Wayne wants us to think
corporations don't talk to each other because there are virtually
unenforced regulations against doing so. He obviously spent his working
life working for a large corporation and is rationalizing it.


I honestly don't know why I continue to give you investment advice and
an education in basic economics. Obviously none of it fits in with
your preconceived view of how the world should work, so why bother.

It turns out however that corporations don't really need to collude
(talk to each other secretly) because they, and we, all share in the
same basic information. Most corporations, virtually all of the
successful ones, have a lot of smart people working for them who know
how to act on that information and position their strategy. There is
nothing illegal or unethical about that. Stockholders (us), and the
board of directors (our elected representatives), expect nothing less.

Here's an example: Civil unrest breaks out in a major oil producing
country, in this case Libya. A major European country, which you may
have heard of, Italy, gets most of their oil from Libya. Italians
like to heat their homes in cold weather, and drive their cars just
about all the time, so the thought of losing their oil supply is
somewhat distressing. What do they do to ensure an uninterrupted
supply? Simple, you go to the spot market where unallocated oil is
auctioned, usually by the tanker load. Anyone can bid, no collusion
required. How many tanker loads would you like, and when would you
like it delivered? At the same time that the Italians are ensuring
their future supply, refineries in Texas and Louisiana are booking
their upcoming shipments, but suddenly they are being outbid every now
and then. No responsible refinery operator wants to run out of crude
so they bid a bit higher for the next couple of loads. Meanwhile the
refinery accountants are trying to figure out what they have to charge
in order to cover their costs and make a modest profit to cover
investments in equipment, etc. As soon as they hear that they are
going to be paying more for crude next week, prices for the product
(gasoline and others) are increased. So that's collusion, pretty
much the same thing you'd do with your lemonade stand if the price of
lemons was going up.

On Feb 28, 8:09*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 16:54:15 -0500, Harryk
wrote:



On 2/28/11 3:35 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 15:16:04 -0500, Wayne.B
*wrote:

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:12:34 -0800, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 05:44:56 -0500, Wayne.B
*wrote:

On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 21:24:46 -0800, *wrote:

On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 19:50:35 -0500, Wayne.B
*wrote:

On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 15:16:48 -0800, *wrote:

Corporations are beholden to their stockholders, not the customer.

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 21:09:28 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 16:54:15 -0500, Harryk
wrote:

On 2/28/11 3:35 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 15:16:04 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:12:34 -0800, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 05:44:56 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 21:24:46 -0800, wrote:

On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 19:50:35 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 15:16:48 -0800, wrote:

Corporations are beholden to their stockholders, not the customer.

Any business is a balancing act between customers, stockholders
(owners), and employees. On top of that, throw in the government,
general public, media and financial services just for good measure.

My advice? Become a stockholder. It's very satisfying to be a
stakeholder in a well run business.

I am a large stakeholder in my own corporation, and it's run very
efficiently. But it's not in the oil industry where competitors work
in collusion. I have competitors in what's called a free market.

Any time oil/gas prices go up, it becomes very popular to think that
there is some vast conspiracy behind it. Who's fault is it when
prices go the other way as they sometimes do? There are vast numbers
of middle men involved in the production, distribution, refining and
transportation of oil. If they think prices are going up in the near
future because of a posible shortage, they do the same thing that you
and I would do, and try to buy more right now. The only collusion
involved is supply and demand.

Actually, it's pretty obvious there is a conspiracy. It isn't about
fixing prices though. It's about corps not giving a crap about this
country or its people. They attempt to rig the electoral process and
usually succeed.

You and Harry are too much with this corporate conspiracy nonsense.
Perhaps you can both go to Venezuela and help Chavez nationalize their
remaining industries.

So you believe that corps have the best interest of the US in mind? I
thought they had the best interest of their shareholders and CEOs in
mind first.

Nobody is talking about nationalizing companies, but you'd rather
deflect any discussion about reasonable regulation.


It's corporations uber alles, nothing less. Wayne wants us to think
corporations don't talk to each other because there are virtually
unenforced regulations against doing so. He obviously spent his working
life working for a large corporation and is rationalizing it.


I honestly don't know why I continue to give you investment advice and
an education in basic economics. Obviously none of it fits in with
your preconceived view of how the world should work, so why bother.

It turns out however that corporations don't really need to collude
(talk to each other secretly) because they, and we, all share in the
same basic information. Most corporations, virtually all of the
successful ones, have a lot of smart people working for them who know
how to act on that information and position their strategy. There is
nothing illegal or unethical about that. Stockholders (us), and the
board of directors (our elected representatives), expect nothing less.

Here's an example: Civil unrest breaks out in a major oil producing
country, in this case Libya. A major European country, which you may
have heard of, Italy, gets most of their oil from Libya. Italians
like to heat their homes in cold weather, and drive their cars just
about all the time, so the thought of losing their oil supply is
somewhat distressing. What do they do to ensure an uninterrupted
supply? Simple, you go to the spot market where unallocated oil is
auctioned, usually by the tanker load. Anyone can bid, no collusion
required. How many tanker loads would you like, and when would you
like it delivered? At the same time that the Italians are ensuring
their future supply, refineries in Texas and Louisiana are booking
their upcoming shipments, but suddenly they are being outbid every now
and then. No responsible refinery operator wants to run out of crude
so they bid a bit higher for the next couple of loads. Meanwhile the
refinery accountants are trying to figure out what they have to charge
in order to cover their costs and make a modest profit to cover
investments in equipment, etc. As soon as they hear that they are
going to be paying more for crude next week, prices for the product
(gasoline and others) are increased. So that's collusion, pretty
much the same thing you'd do with your lemonade stand if the price of
lemons was going up.

This must be about piracy, since you're commenting....

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 19:17:59 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

On Feb 28, 8:09*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 16:54:15 -0500, Harryk
wrote:



On 2/28/11 3:35 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 15:16:04 -0500, Wayne.B
*wrote:

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:12:34 -0800, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 05:44:56 -0500, Wayne.B
*wrote:

On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 21:24:46 -0800, *wrote:

On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 19:50:35 -0500, Wayne.B
*wrote:

On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 15:16:48 -0800, *wrote:

Corporations are beholden to their stockholders, not the customer.

Any business is a balancing act between customers, stockholders
(owners), and employees. *On top of that, throw in the government,
general public, media and financial services just for good measure.

My advice? * Become a stockholder. * It's very satisfying to be a
stakeholder in a well run business.

I am a large stakeholder in my own corporation, and it's run very
efficiently. *But it's not in the oil industry where competitors work
in collusion. *I have competitors in what's called a free market.

Any time oil/gas prices go up, it becomes very popular to think that
there is some vast conspiracy behind it. *Who's fault is it when
prices go the other way as they sometimes do? *There are vast numbers
of middle men involved in the production, distribution, refining and
transportation of oil. * If they think prices are going up in the near
future because of a posible shortage, they do the same thing that you
and I would do, and try to buy more right now. *The only collusion
involved is supply and demand.

Actually, it's pretty obvious there is a conspiracy. It isn't about
fixing prices though. It's about corps not giving a crap about this
country or its people. They attempt to rig the electoral process and
usually succeed.

You and Harry are too much with this corporate conspiracy nonsense.
Perhaps you can both go to Venezuela and help Chavez nationalize their
remaining industries.

So you believe that corps have the best interest of the US in mind? I
thought they had the best interest of their shareholders and CEOs in
mind first.

Nobody is talking about nationalizing companies, but you'd rather
deflect any discussion about reasonable regulation.

It's corporations uber alles, nothing less. Wayne wants us to think
corporations don't talk to each other because there are virtually
unenforced regulations against doing so. He obviously spent his working
life working for a large corporation and is rationalizing it.

I honestly don't know why I continue to give you investment advice and
an education in basic economics. * Obviously none of it fits in with
your preconceived view of how the world should work, so why bother.

It turns out however that corporations don't really need to collude
(talk to each other secretly) because they, and we, all share in the
same basic information. *Most corporations, virtually all of the
successful ones, have a lot of smart people working for them who know
how to act on that information and position their strategy. *There is
nothing illegal or unethical about that. *Stockholders (us), and the
board of directors (our elected representatives), expect nothing less.

Here's an example: * Civil unrest breaks out in a major oil producing
country, in this case Libya. * A major European country, which you may
have heard of, Italy, gets most of their oil from Libya. *Italians
like to heat their homes in cold weather, and drive their cars just
about all the time, so the thought of losing their oil supply is
somewhat distressing. *What do they do to ensure an uninterrupted
supply? *Simple, you go to the spot market where unallocated oil is
auctioned, usually by the tanker load. *Anyone can bid, no collusion
required. *How many tanker loads would you like, and when would you
like it delivered? *At the same time that the Italians are ensuring
their future supply, refineries in Texas and Louisiana are booking
their upcoming shipments, but suddenly they are being outbid every now
and then. * No responsible refinery operator wants to run out of crude
so they bid a bit higher for the next couple of loads. * Meanwhile the
refinery accountants are trying to figure out what they have to charge
in order to cover their costs and make a modest profit to cover
investments in equipment, etc. *As soon as they hear that they are
going to be paying more for crude next week, prices for the product
(gasoline and others) are increased. * So that's collusion, pretty
much the same thing you'd do with your lemonade stand if the price of
lemons was going up.

Pretty good explanation, Wayne.

Thanks!

Great... except for the part that the Wall Street price manipulators
play... I guess you don't remember Enron...

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 15:12:42 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 09:03:59 -0800, jps wrote:

Any time oil/gas prices go up, it becomes very popular to think that
there is some vast conspiracy behind it. Who's fault is it when
prices go the other way as they sometimes do? There are vast numbers
of middle men involved in the production, distribution, refining and
transportation of oil. If they think prices are going up in the near
future because of a posible shortage, they do the same thing that you
and I would do, and try to buy more right now. The only collusion
involved is supply and demand.

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, reserves are going up at the
same time price is going up. That's not supply and demand.

Of course it is. The reserves are created by people buying in
advance of actual need in expectation that supplies may be tighter at
a later date and/or prices higher. There is no big tank labeled
reserves. It is the sum total of inventory on hand.

That's a bunch of crap. Those markets are manipulated as are the
stock prices you hold so dear. Let's see how much you like 'em when
they take the next dump.

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 12:04:45 -0500, Harryk
wrote:

On 2/28/11 12:01 PM, jps wrote:
On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 07:52:11 -0500,
wrote:

On 2/28/11 7:45 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 19:50:35 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 15:16:48 -0800, wrote:

Corporations are beholden to their stockholders, not the customer.

Any business is a balancing act between customers, stockholders
(owners), and employees. On top of that, throw in the government,
general public, media and financial services just for good measure.

My advice? Become a stockholder. It's very satisfying to be a
stakeholder in a well run business.

I am a large stakeholder in my own corporation, and it's run very
efficiently. But it's not in the oil industry where competitors work
in collusion. I have competitors in what's called a free market.

Have you reald Welch's book.


Indeed, I've read Welch's The Politician, and also the Bluebook of the
John Birch Society. My mother got them for me as gag gifts while in high
school and after I was graduated. That right-wing lunatic, Koch, is a
prominent Bircher. My mom, a minor Republican functionary in New Haven,
said, "you'll get a laugh out of *this* craziness."

Oh, wait, you probably are referring to a different Welch.

Damn, Bertie the Bircher. Probably worships Pat Buchannan.


We all know that the Commies fluoridate our water in order to diminish
our precious bodily fluids.

Bunch of loons. They were loons in the 60s and they're still loons.

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 20:39:06 -0800, wrote:

Great... except for the part that the Wall Street price manipulators
play... I guess you don't remember Enron...

I remember it well. I also remember that Wall Street is located in
Manhattan. I worked there for many years and know the location well,
not to mention a few things about the industry. Enron, on the other
hand was headquartered in Houston, Texas - part of the energy
industry, the fraudulent part.

On Tue, 01 Mar 2011 02:09:55 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 20:39:06 -0800, wrote:

Great... except for the part that the Wall Street price manipulators
play... I guess you don't remember Enron...

I remember it well. I also remember that Wall Street is located in
Manhattan. I worked there for many years and know the location well,
not to mention a few things about the industry. Enron, on the other
hand was headquartered in Houston, Texas - part of the energy
industry, the fraudulent part.

You're claiming that there was no connection between Enron
manipulation and Wall Street?

http://www.forbes.com/2001/11/29/1129topnews.html

On Feb 28, 12:15*am, wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 21:26:33 -0800, jps wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 23:28:03 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 20:01:34 -0800, wrote:

Government should be the service provider of last resort for things
that no one else can do. * Anything else is socialism.

For military, homeland security, police, fire, environmental
regulation, environmental disasters, mentally ill, poor people,
criminals.... All those things too?

You're suggesting that government should supply us with poor, mentally
ill criminals? *Someone else seems to be doing a good job of that
already.

You're deflecting. *You know what she was saying.

Of course he knows... he just doesn't want to embarrass himself any
further, so he made a funny.

You have not a cue how you look on this forum, D'Plume. Wayne and
Fretwell play you like a harp.