A problem with deep-sixing pirates....
 

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 00:02:13 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 17:43:51 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

is that they are possible going to bring children (future buccaneers)
with them as innocent human shields. Shag a couple boats loaded with
the just and the unjust alike and sooner or later the world court[s]
will hear about it and then condemnation will hit like the swarms of
Egypt.


That is why I like Plume's idea of drones. We seem to think it is OK
to kill a terrorist and everyone else in the building.

Especially when you do it by remote control and there are no TV crews
around to show it live on the 6 o'clock news. :-)

I think it's all a matter of priorities. Four americans go where
they didn't belong, in a boat, and pay the price. Is that a crisis or
just a personal tragedy for the friends and families involved? It's
not happening every day, and it's not happening on our door step.
Most of the pirates around here are running marinas and boat yards.

Exactly where do Americans belong? Why do our taxes pay for the US Navy?

A problem with deep-sixing pirates....
 

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 21:31:55 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

On Feb 23, 11:23*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 00:02:13 -0500, wrote:
On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 17:43:51 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:


Especially when you do it by remote control and there are no TV crews
around to show it live on the 6 o'clock news. * :-)



It would still get to the media Wayne. Seems like that stuff does
anymore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnQp6mLUD_M

The best way to do this would be totally black. Never admit we did
anything. Let the pirates think Allah blew up their boat.
There is no reason they ever have to see the drone that tracked them
or the drone that fired the Hellfire missile

There are too many people involved.

The first problem is the "No ****, there I was..."

A problem with deep-sixing pirates....
 

On Feb 24, 6:11*am, BAR wrote:
In article dd413b8a-dce6-482c-8f1d-c8bdfa1095c0
@k18g2000vbq.googlegroups.com, says...





On Feb 23, 9:51 pm, BAR wrote:
In article 933d9a82-a0c4-4a54-9c0f-733d53524607
@m7g2000vbq.googlegroups.com, says...

is that they are possible going to bring children (future buccaneers)
with them as innocent human shields. Shag a couple boats loaded with
the just and the unjust alike and sooner or later the world court[s]
will hear about it and then condemnation will hit like the swarms of
Egypt.

Is a 14 year old holding an AK-47 on a pirate ship the same as a 14 year
old holding a Glock at the gas station?

No, but a 3 yr old sitting there with his mom *on a boarding boat is,
though.

What would you do if a guy wore his child on his chest during a robbery?
Would you just let me go?

Too often the USA brings a knife to a gun fight.

Don't know about robberies, but that does happen in hostage
situations. It's a tough call but I'd say with the right equipment and
person behind the equipment, they perp could be taken out and the
child spared.

But you usually don't see that happening in a pirate situation with
children on the boarding craft.

A problem with deep-sixing pirates....
 

On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 07:19:05 -0500, BAR wrote:

Exactly where do Americans belong?

If you are in a strange city at night and someone warns you that
certain neighborhoods are unsafe, would you go there anyway?

If you have the opportunity to go through an unsafe area with a larger
group and ignore that opportunity by going off on your own, who's
fault is it when you get in trouble?

A problem with deep-sixing pirates....
 

"Tim" wrote in message
...

On Feb 24, 6:11 am, BAR wrote:
In article dd413b8a-dce6-482c-8f1d-c8bdfa1095c0
@k18g2000vbq.googlegroups.com, says...





On Feb 23, 9:51 pm, BAR wrote:
In article 933d9a82-a0c4-4a54-9c0f-733d53524607
@m7g2000vbq.googlegroups.com, says...

is that they are possible going to bring children (future
buccaneers)
with them as innocent human shields. Shag a couple boats loaded with
the just and the unjust alike and sooner or later the world court[s]
will hear about it and then condemnation will hit like the swarms of
Egypt.

Is a 14 year old holding an AK-47 on a pirate ship the same as a 14
year
old holding a Glock at the gas station?

No, but a 3 yr old sitting there with his mom on a boarding boat is,
though.

What would you do if a guy wore his child on his chest during a robbery?
Would you just let me go?

Too often the USA brings a knife to a gun fight.

Yeah, you let him go. Shooting through the hostage is only protocol if large
number of lives depend on it, like the bad guys are after your nukes. Not
after the big banks insured funds.

Bring a knife and a gun and the smarts to know which to employ.

A problem with deep-sixing pirates....
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 23:44:26 -0500, I_am_Tosk
wrote:

If Obama wanted to, he could stop this overnight...

The problem predates the current administration, no reason to
politicize the discussion.

Not trying to politicize anything, Obama is the one who can stop it
"now". When Bush was in, I had the same feeling, in fact I am sure I
noted it here.

The loss of 4 lives, fellow boaters, is a tragic event - no question
about it.

If you were president how would you rank it on a scale of national
priorities compared to Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, terrorism, Iran,
the economic crisis, the impending food and energy crisis, etc. ??

=======

I would have to weigh the fact that these people put themselves in harms way
for no more reason than recreation. Unless these people have been living in
a cave somewhere they knew the risks and went anyway. Like the hikers
imprisoned by Iran. We are responsible for our actions.
I think the real success by the war on terror was going after the terrorists
money. Doesn't seem the same effort is going into shutting down the pirates.

A problem with deep-sixing pirates....
 

On 23/02/2011 10:39 PM, I_am_Tosk wrote:
In ,
says...

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 23:27:14 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

It doesn't make any sense. We know the DOD monitors every inch of the
gulf, they surely must know which mother ship a skiff came from. As to
the "world courts", if you vaporize the mother ship and skiffs, there
will be nothing left for court;)

Didn't it happen in the Indian Ocean, thousands of square miles?
That's my understanding. There are hundreds if not thousands of
fishing boats out there, all looking a lot alike.

I think we have theater surveillance capability sufficient to plot and
track a lot of vessels. Once the operators get a feel for watching
them I bet they can profile out the mother ships pretty quick and
spend most of the effort watching them.

It certainly can't be much harder than tracking terrorists in the
wilds of Pakistan. These ships can't really hide in a cave and come
out somewhere else.

Exactly. Give me a few weeks with the tapes and "I" could probably tell
you who is in a fishing pattern, and who is in a "surveillance"
pattern. A few bucks to a few local fisherman, and you would know
exactly where the fishing areas are, as opposed to the "staging" areas
too.

Good possibility they do both, fish and pirate at the same time. Then
just sink them.

--
Socialism is a great ideal as long as someone else pays for it. And when
no one is left to pay for it, they all can share nothing.

A problem with deep-sixing pirates....
 

On 23/02/2011 11:26 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 21:31:55 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Feb 23, 11:23 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 00:02:13 -0500, wrote:
On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 17:43:51 -0800 (PST),
wrote:


Especially when you do it by remote control and there are no TV crews
around to show it live on the 6 o'clock news. :-)



It would still get to the media Wayne. Seems like that stuff does
anymore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnQp6mLUD_M

The best way to do this would be totally black. Never admit we did
anything. Let the pirates think Allah blew up their boat.
There is no reason they ever have to see the drone that tracked them
or the drone that fired the Hellfire missile

Drones might be good to spot, but an Apache 30mm rounds might be cheaper
than missiles.

--
Socialism is a great ideal as long as someone else pays for it. And when
no one is left to pay for it, they all can share nothing.

A problem with deep-sixing pirates....
 

On 23/02/2011 10:02 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 17:43:51 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

is that they are possible going to bring children (future buccaneers)
with them as innocent human shields. Shag a couple boats loaded with
the just and the unjust alike and sooner or later the world court[s]
will hear about it and then condemnation will hit like the swarms of
Egypt.


That is why I like Plume's idea of drones. We seem to think it is OK
to kill a terrorist and everyone else in the building.


Why not? If I were sleeping with and feeding the enemy, I then am an
accomplice by association. Boom, blow the whole building. No more
future little terrorists.

--
Socialism is a great ideal as long as someone else pays for it. And when
no one is left to pay for it, they all can share nothing.

A problem with deep-sixing pirates....
 

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 23:55:49 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 23:44:26 -0500, I_am_Tosk
wrote:

If Obama wanted to, he could stop this overnight...

The problem predates the current administration, no reason to
politicize the discussion.

Not trying to politicize anything, Obama is the one who can stop it
"now". When Bush was in, I had the same feeling, in fact I am sure I
noted it here.

The loss of 4 lives, fellow boaters, is a tragic event - no question
about it.

If you were president how would you rank it on a scale of national
priorities compared to Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, terrorism, Iran,
the economic crisis, the impending food and energy crisis, etc. ??

For people like this guy, it's one of THE most important things, along
with preventing women from getting proper health care, and fighting
gays over marriage.