In article ,
says...

In article , payer3389
@mypacks.net says...

On 1/6/11 5:32 PM, I am Tosk wrote:
In ,
says...

On 1/6/11 3:48 PM, wrote:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dcno...ilibuster.html

I guarantee you they will get every dime of their pay, even though
they stayed home. This is just another "shut down the government"
thing like the mid 90s. Nobody lost a dime then either.
I suspect people in LA don't understand that.


Wow...all the excitement of attending a teabagger rally without actually
having to be anywhere near those sorts of folks! :)

Nice use of pejorative, it clearly shows why you get banned from every
moderated group you infect...



Sorry, Scotty, but I'm no longer playing your game. Have a nice life.

You never really did... although I do think you might have given it a
bit of a shot last month...

That's our Harry. Caught in a lie or something? Deflect!

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 02:12:44 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 21:38:50 -0800, wrote:

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 21:19:19 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 17:38:07 -0800, wrote:

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 15:48:07 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 10:55:11 -0800, wrote:


Yeah... really hard....

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dcno...ilibuster.html

I guarantee you they will get every dime of their pay, even though
they stayed home. This is just another "shut down the government"
thing like the mid 90s. Nobody lost a dime then either.
I suspect people in LA don't understand that.

Well, I'm not sure what to say. You claim that the UofM is either
wrong or lying, and you don't believe that Fed. workers were in
jeopardy, even though that would have been the case had Bunning not
relented. I'm not sure what you believe at this point.

I know how these appropriations fights are fought. They "shut down"
some function of government, there is a lot of saber rattling and the
citizens see locked doors but the AFGE agreement doesn't change,
nobody gets fired and when they finally hammer out the deal they want
on the hill everyone gets their back pay ... if the paychecks ever
stopped. They usually just keep coming right on schedule.
You say there are layoffs where civil service workers actually lost
their job and you still haven't showed us any.You have shown early
retirements and paid days off but no layoffs.
You also have to understand how the 171 process works. If your
government position is eliminated you get the highest priority to be
hired by any other agency. Basically they have a hard time hiring
anyone until all current employees are in new positions so they find
you a job (just like any other union). Again this virtually always
happens before you miss a paycheck. In fact in all of the 70s
relocations, I don't know a single person who lost a dime. It is more
likely that you get a promotion but you can always find something.

Like this one?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20101220/..._until_january

Yes exactly like that one. EVERY ONE OF THOSE EMPLOYEES GOT BACK PAY
in spite of a lot of them not working. On these "shutdowns", part of
the deal that finally gets hammered down on the hill is that the AFGE
members get their back pay whether they actually came to work or not.
Most stay home. That is part of the "Close the Washington Monument"
blackmail that shutting down the government imposes on the citizens.
They usually target the most visible agencies and then the news media
hypes it up. They bury the story that these people actually get their
money on the back of the social page, if it gets covered at all,

Yes, they got paid retroactively. Millions were effected. Guess
what'll happen if the debt ceiling isn't increased. Do you think Fed
employees are going to get paid for that retroactively?

Did you read the story?
"In all, 28 days saw a partial government shutdown. The second lapse
was the longest in history at 22 days. The effects and consequences
were temporary even though millions of people were effected."

"The effect was TEMPORARY" They got paid.


Again you still have not talked about anyone LOSING their job in a
layoff.

I guess when the OPM creates a publication to address it, it must not
have happened.

http://www.opm.gov/pressrel/1995/PR950407.htm

http://www.opm.gov/rif/general/rifguide.asp

I guess when Reagan fired the air traffic controllers they got their
jobs/money back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profess...zation_ (1968)

I guess this author is just making things up...

http://finance.dir.groups.yahoo.com/...&sec=dir&slk=9

Never happens at the EPA...

http://www.epa.gov/boston/jobs/displace.html

Certainly not at NASA...

http://www.afeu.org/blog/?p=57

And on and on...

Next time do your own Google search!

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:49:38 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 10:37:00 -0800, wrote:


Yes exactly like that one. EVERY ONE OF THOSE EMPLOYEES GOT BACK PAY
in spite of a lot of them not working. On these "shutdowns", part of
the deal that finally gets hammered down on the hill is that the AFGE
members get their back pay whether they actually came to work or not.
Most stay home. That is part of the "Close the Washington Monument"
blackmail that shutting down the government imposes on the citizens.
They usually target the most visible agencies and then the news media
hypes it up. They bury the story that these people actually get their
money on the back of the social page, if it gets covered at all,

Yes, they got paid retroactively. Millions were effected. Guess
what'll happen if the debt ceiling isn't increased. Do you think Fed
employees are going to get paid for that retroactively?

I can't speak for every shutdown but usually the checks or EFTs never
stop. It is harder to stop them than to let them keep coming. Everyone
knows they will get paid eventually anyway.

Did you read the story?
"In all, 28 days saw a partial government shutdown. The second lapse
was the longest in history at 22 days. The effects and consequences
were temporary even though millions of people were effected."

"The effect was TEMPORARY" They got paid.


Again you still have not talked about anyone LOSING their job in a
layoff.

I guess when the OPM creates a publication to address it, it must not
have happened.

http://www.opm.gov/pressrel/1995/PR950407.htm

Did you read it? It is all about how other agencies will absorb the
RIFed workers, exactly as I have been saying.

http://www.opm.gov/rif/general/rifguide.asp

Another article defining how you reassign RIFed employees


I guess when Reagan fired the air traffic controllers they got their
jobs/money back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profess...zation_ (1968)

I guess this author is just making things up...

http://finance.dir.groups.yahoo.com/...&sec=dir&slk=9

The PATA employees violated their contract and DID NOT SHOW UP.
(remember that was one of the rare instances where I said you could
get fired). This should have caused them all to be fired immediately.
Most ended up getting their job back anyway.


Never happens at the EPA...

http://www.epa.gov/boston/jobs/displace.html

Certainly not at NASA...

http://www.afeu.org/blog/?p=57

And on and on...

Next time do your own Google search!

You are again just finding cases where people lost their desks and it
goes into great detail explaining how they got relocated.

You claimed that federal workers don't get fired. I provided numerous
examples. Sorry if you can't handle it.

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 19:07:48 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:22:26 -0800, wrote:

You are again just finding cases where people lost their desks and it
goes into great detail explaining how they got relocated.

You claimed that federal workers don't get fired. I provided numerous
examples. Sorry if you can't handle it.

Go back and read my original note again. I said they can't get fired
as long as they show up for work and they don't get caught stealing.
You gave us one example of the PATA guys being fired for not showing
up at work.
It is a violation of the law that allows a federal union for the
members to strike. That is black letter law.
They should have all been fired. There may even be criminal penalties
attached.


The rest of your links only talked about the extraordinary lengths
they go to relocate people when their agency closes.

You also linked articles about the shutdowns and they all ended up
with everyone keeping their jobs.

I suppose you could say the Walkers got fired but they stole national
secrets.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...mcain-federal/

http://www.federalnewsradio.com/?nid=35&sid=1995749

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...-blowers_x.htm

You seem to think that it's an uncommon private business practice to
not attempt to place workers in other jobs. Big companies do this all
the time. While it's more difficult to fire Fed employees, it's not
impossible. Please show us some numbers that support all the
"incompetence" of Fed workers. Seems to me they mostly do a good job.

On Jan 7, 8:17*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 19:07:48 -0500, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:22:26 -0800, wrote:

You are again just finding cases where people lost their desks and it
goes into great detail explaining how they got relocated.

You claimed that federal workers don't get fired. I provided numerous
examples. Sorry if you can't handle it.

Go back and read my original note again. I said they can't get fired
as long as they show up for work and they don't get caught stealing.
You gave us one example of the PATA guys being fired for not showing
up at work.
It is a violation of the law that allows a federal union for the
members to strike. That is black letter law.
They should have all been fired. There may even be criminal penalties
attached.

The rest of your links only talked about the extraordinary lengths
they go to relocate people when their agency closes.

You also linked articles about the shutdowns and they all ended up
with everyone keeping their jobs.

I suppose you could say the Walkers got fired but they stole national
secrets.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...p/05/mcain-fed...

http://www.federalnewsradio.com/?nid=35&sid=1995749

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...-blowers_x.htm

You seem to think that it's an uncommon private business practice to
not attempt to place workers in other jobs. Big companies do this all
the time. While it's more difficult to fire Fed employees, it's not
impossible. Please show us some numbers that support all the
"incompetence" of Fed workers. Seems to me they mostly do a good job.

having difficulty staying focused ,D'Plume? Between your dulled
comprehension skills and your constant thirst for confrontation, it's
evident you can't handle having your ass handed to you by the likes of
Mr. Fretwell, especially on such a consistent basis. After all, in
your ever presence of trying to save face, you have changed the
subject in your conversation at least six times.

Please try to improve D'Plume. presently, you are less then
humourous.

"Sorry if you can't handle it."

Indeed.

On Sat, 08 Jan 2011 11:40:10 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 18:17:09 -0800, wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 19:07:48 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:22:26 -0800, wrote:

You are again just finding cases where people lost their desks and it
goes into great detail explaining how they got relocated.

You claimed that federal workers don't get fired. I provided numerous
examples. Sorry if you can't handle it.

Go back and read my original note again. I said they can't get fired
as long as they show up for work and they don't get caught stealing.
You gave us one example of the PATA guys being fired for not showing
up at work.
It is a violation of the law that allows a federal union for the
members to strike. That is black letter law.
They should have all been fired. There may even be criminal penalties
attached.


The rest of your links only talked about the extraordinary lengths
they go to relocate people when their agency closes.

You also linked articles about the shutdowns and they all ended up
with everyone keeping their jobs.

I suppose you could say the Walkers got fired but they stole national
secrets.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...mcain-federal/

Exactly, you posted an article that said what I have been saying. A
few people got fired for coming in drunk and punching out the boss.
That is not a layoff, that is a criminal act.

http://www.federalnewsradio.com/?nid=35&sid=1995749

Losing their security clearance

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...-blowers_x.htm

Stealing and disclosing confidential information.

You seem to think that it's an uncommon private business practice to
not attempt to place workers in other jobs. Big companies do this all
the time. While it's more difficult to fire Fed employees, it's not
impossible. Please show us some numbers that support all the
"incompetence" of Fed workers. Seems to me they mostly do a good job.

Most federal employees do try to do a good job, the point is it is
hard to get rid of the ones who don't. The first article in this post
demonstrates that. Getting fired for being drunk and punching the boss
is not the same as just being lazy and not working. I agree that is a
fairly small percentage but seeing that lowers the morale of the rest
of the work force and lowers overall productivity.

Yes, it's hard. No, it's not impossible to fire a Fed employee.

It's just as high of a percentage in the corporate world. In fact, it
might even be worse there. Laziness typically lowers morale and
productivity, but that's not unique to Fed workers. Large companies
have the same problem.

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 08 Jan 2011 11:40:10 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 18:17:09 -0800, wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 19:07:48 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:22:26 -0800, wrote:

You are again just finding cases where people lost their desks and it
goes into great detail explaining how they got relocated.

You claimed that federal workers don't get fired. I provided numerous
examples. Sorry if you can't handle it.

Go back and read my original note again. I said they can't get fired
as long as they show up for work and they don't get caught stealing.
You gave us one example of the PATA guys being fired for not showing
up at work.
It is a violation of the law that allows a federal union for the
members to strike. That is black letter law.
They should have all been fired. There may even be criminal penalties
attached.


The rest of your links only talked about the extraordinary lengths
they go to relocate people when their agency closes.

You also linked articles about the shutdowns and they all ended up
with everyone keeping their jobs.

I suppose you could say the Walkers got fired but they stole national
secrets.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...mcain-federal/

Exactly, you posted an article that said what I have been saying. A
few people got fired for coming in drunk and punching out the boss.
That is not a layoff, that is a criminal act.

http://www.federalnewsradio.com/?nid=35&sid=1995749

Losing their security clearance

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...-blowers_x.htm

Stealing and disclosing confidential information.

You seem to think that it's an uncommon private business practice to
not attempt to place workers in other jobs. Big companies do this all
the time. While it's more difficult to fire Fed employees, it's not
impossible. Please show us some numbers that support all the
"incompetence" of Fed workers. Seems to me they mostly do a good job.

Most federal employees do try to do a good job, the point is it is
hard to get rid of the ones who don't. The first article in this post
demonstrates that. Getting fired for being drunk and punching the boss
is not the same as just being lazy and not working. I agree that is a
fairly small percentage but seeing that lowers the morale of the rest
of the work force and lowers overall productivity.

Yes, it's hard. No, it's not impossible to fire a Fed employee.

It's just as high of a percentage in the corporate world. In fact, it
might even be worse there. Laziness typically lowers morale and
productivity, but that's not unique to Fed workers. Large companies
have the same problem.

Damn straight! Just go ask Scotties former employers.

On 1/8/11 4:04 PM, YukonBound wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sat, 08 Jan 2011 11:40:10 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 18:17:09 -0800, wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 19:07:48 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:22:26 -0800, wrote:

You are again just finding cases where people lost their desks
and it
goes into great detail explaining how they got relocated.

You claimed that federal workers don't get fired. I provided numerous
examples. Sorry if you can't handle it.

Go back and read my original note again. I said they can't get fired
as long as they show up for work and they don't get caught stealing.
You gave us one example of the PATA guys being fired for not showing
up at work.
It is a violation of the law that allows a federal union for the
members to strike. That is black letter law.
They should have all been fired. There may even be criminal penalties
attached.


The rest of your links only talked about the extraordinary lengths
they go to relocate people when their agency closes.

You also linked articles about the shutdowns and they all ended up
with everyone keeping their jobs.

I suppose you could say the Walkers got fired but they stole national
secrets.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...mcain-federal/


Exactly, you posted an article that said what I have been saying. A
few people got fired for coming in drunk and punching out the boss.
That is not a layoff, that is a criminal act.

http://www.federalnewsradio.com/?nid=35&sid=1995749

Losing their security clearance

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...-blowers_x.htm


Stealing and disclosing confidential information.

You seem to think that it's an uncommon private business practice to
not attempt to place workers in other jobs. Big companies do this all
the time. While it's more difficult to fire Fed employees, it's not
impossible. Please show us some numbers that support all the
"incompetence" of Fed workers. Seems to me they mostly do a good job.

Most federal employees do try to do a good job, the point is it is
hard to get rid of the ones who don't. The first article in this post
demonstrates that. Getting fired for being drunk and punching the boss
is not the same as just being lazy and not working. I agree that is a
fairly small percentage but seeing that lowers the morale of the rest
of the work force and lowers overall productivity.

Yes, it's hard. No, it's not impossible to fire a Fed employee.

It's just as high of a percentage in the corporate world. In fact, it
might even be worse there. Laziness typically lowers morale and
productivity, but that's not unique to Fed workers. Large companies
have the same problem.

Damn straight! Just go ask Scotties former employers.


That must be some list.

Harryk wrote:
On 1/6/11 5:56 PM, I am Tosk wrote:
In article55ydnT7L8Mi72bvQnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d@earthlink .com, payer3389
@mypacks.net says...

On 1/6/11 5:32 PM, I am Tosk wrote:
In ,
says...

On 1/6/11 3:48 PM, wrote:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dcno...ilibuster.html


I guarantee you they will get every dime of their pay, even though
they stayed home. This is just another "shut down the government"
thing like the mid 90s. Nobody lost a dime then either.
I suspect people in LA don't understand that.


Wow...all the excitement of attending a teabagger rally without
actually
having to be anywhere near those sorts of folks! :)

Nice use of pejorative, it clearly shows why you get banned from every
moderated group you infect...



Sorry, Scotty, but I'm no longer playing your game. Have a nice life.

You never really did... although I do think you might have given it a
bit of a shot last month...



Last month...oh, I remember...that's when you were actively urging
more ID spoofing here, and otherwise behaving like a flaming asshole.
I'm sure you'll find some playmates here...perhaps you might want to
hang with Ziggy, the ID Spoofer, the Loogy, the LG, the Bert, the
Herring, et cetera. They're really more your type than mine, since I
have little use for rightwingers and morons.

Sorry, I'm not interested in your ill-informed opinions on the world,
on politics, on music, on child-rearing, or any of the other nonsense
that vent here, except as a source of giggles.

Have a nice life.




You should have taken advice on child-rearing. We know how that turned
out for you.

YukonBound wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sat, 08 Jan 2011 11:40:10 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 18:17:09 -0800, wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 19:07:48 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:22:26 -0800, wrote:

You are again just finding cases where people lost their desks
and it
goes into great detail explaining how they got relocated.

You claimed that federal workers don't get fired. I provided
numerous
examples. Sorry if you can't handle it.

Go back and read my original note again. I said they can't get fired
as long as they show up for work and they don't get caught stealing.
You gave us one example of the PATA guys being fired for not showing
up at work.
It is a violation of the law that allows a federal union for the
members to strike. That is black letter law.
They should have all been fired. There may even be criminal penalties
attached.


The rest of your links only talked about the extraordinary lengths
they go to relocate people when their agency closes.

You also linked articles about the shutdowns and they all ended up
with everyone keeping their jobs.

I suppose you could say the Walkers got fired but they stole national
secrets.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...mcain-federal/


Exactly, you posted an article that said what I have been saying. A
few people got fired for coming in drunk and punching out the boss.
That is not a layoff, that is a criminal act.

http://www.federalnewsradio.com/?nid=35&sid=1995749

Losing their security clearance

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...-blowers_x.htm


Stealing and disclosing confidential information.

You seem to think that it's an uncommon private business practice to
not attempt to place workers in other jobs. Big companies do this all
the time. While it's more difficult to fire Fed employees, it's not
impossible. Please show us some numbers that support all the
"incompetence" of Fed workers. Seems to me they mostly do a good job.

Most federal employees do try to do a good job, the point is it is
hard to get rid of the ones who don't. The first article in this post
demonstrates that. Getting fired for being drunk and punching the boss
is not the same as just being lazy and not working. I agree that is a
fairly small percentage but seeing that lowers the morale of the rest
of the work force and lowers overall productivity.

Yes, it's hard. No, it's not impossible to fire a Fed employee.

It's just as high of a percentage in the corporate world. In fact, it
might even be worse there. Laziness typically lowers morale and
productivity, but that's not unique to Fed workers. Large companies
have the same problem.

Damn straight! Just go ask Scotties former employers.
And you know that how?