On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 20:52:08 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 15:07:20 -0800, wrote:

Cato Institute? Do you know who they are?
That is a Libertarian group saying what the government SHOULD DO.
That has nothing to do with what they actually do.

"Vice-President Gore leads the Administration’'S efforts to reinvent
government, making it work better, cost less, and get results that
Americans care about. Under his leadership, the size of the federal
[civilian] workforce has been reduced by about 350,000 people, and
common sense changes have been made in the way government works
that have saved the taxpayers $ 137 billion."

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3973816/Re...ral-Downsizing


That was a great PR stunt but nobody was laid off. There was an
incentive for people to take what was essentially a buyout into early
retirement. I know a guy who took it.
The overall government workforce stayed about the same anyway.


So, you're claiming that U of Missouri was lying??? But, you believe
everything the Heritage Foundation says...

"Tim" wrote in message
...

On Jan 4, 6:00 pm, Harryk wrote:
On 1/4/11 7:00 PM, Tim wrote:



On Jan 1, 8:41 pm, wrote:
"Harryk" wrote in message

...

On 1/1/11 12:43 PM, wrote:

Wow... this will be fun!

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranci.../san-francisco...

Where would the actual racing take place? Out in the open ocean or...a
course around Alcatraz Island? The latter would sure draw shoreline
crowds on all sides of the Bay.

Reply: Could be around Alcatraz to the Farallon Islands and back.
already
a couple sailboat races a year that do that. About 26 miles to the
islands.
There are questions on how a bankrupt city like SF can afford to do the
upgrades required.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110101/...iling_americas

I'm not really into that kind of racing but if it can pump some more
money back into the US I'm all for it.

What if all the boats are built in China and the crews all come
from...India? :)

Is that what happens? hmmmm

I was thinking of those who follow the sport and would come here to
watch/participate in the affair, and pump some good bucks in the
coffers.


Need big guys for the crews. Those guys working the winches look like
strongmen. Friend worked on an America's cup boat when it was in there. So
American people do work on it.

"Tim" wrote in message
...

On Jan 4, 7:13 pm, Harryk wrote:
On 1/4/11 8:08 PM, Tim wrote:



On Jan 4, 6:46 pm, wrote:
On 1/4/11 7:06 PM, Tim wrote:

On Jan 4, 6:00 pm, wrote:
On 1/4/11 7:00 PM, Tim wrote:

On Jan 1, 8:41 pm,
wrote:
"Harryk" wrote in message

...

On 1/1/11 12:43 PM, wrote:

Wow... this will be fun!

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranci.../san-francisco...

Where would the actual racing take place? Out in the open ocean
or...a
course around Alcatraz Island? The latter would sure draw shoreline
crowds on all sides of the Bay.

Reply: Could be around Alcatraz to the Farallon Islands and back.
already
a couple sailboat races a year that do that. About 26 miles to the
islands.
There are questions on how a bankrupt city like SF can afford to do
the
upgrades required.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110101/...iling_americas

I'm not really into that kind of racing but if it can pump some more
money back into the US I'm all for it.

What if all the boats are built in China and the crews all come
from...India? :)

Is that what happens? hmmmm

I was thinking of those who follow the sport and would come here to
watch/participate in the affair, and pump some good bucks in the
coffers.

Oh...*those* people. :)

Yeah. I suppose I'm not one of *those*

LOL!

Me, either. I love SF and love to travel and stay there, but I wouldn't
waste the time and money to go there to watch a bunch of billionaires
race their supercool sailboats.

same.


Reply: I will most likely take the boat out with friends to watch the
races. Unless it is extremely windy and then the bay is nasty to boat on in
a 21' boat.

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 15:07:20 -0800, wrote:

Cato Institute? Do you know who they are?
That is a Libertarian group saying what the government SHOULD DO.
That has nothing to do with what they actually do.

"Vice-President Gore leads the Administration?'S efforts to reinvent
government, making it work better, cost less, and get results that
Americans care about. Under his leadership, the size of the federal
[civilian] workforce has been reduced by about 350,000 people, and
common sense changes have been made in the way government works
that have saved the taxpayers $ 137 billion."

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3973816/Re...ral-Downsizing


That was a great PR stunt but nobody was laid off. There was an
incentive for people to take what was essentially a buyout into early
retirement. I know a guy who took it.
The overall government workforce stayed about the same anyway.


Some people believe everything in print. In my tenure at the USDA I saw
many people get promoted out. The were promoted to a grade that was
higher than their position which required them to get a position in
another agency at their new grade. This was the easiest and fastest way
to get them to out.

Also, incompetence was abundant and all you could do was send people to
classes to try and make them un-incompetent. This helped but it rarely
resolved the problem.

DePlume can believe that AlGore reduced the government rolls by 350,000
but what she isn't saying is that Bill Clinton increased them by 500,000
at the same time.

On 1/5/11 7:33 AM, BAR wrote:


Some people believe everything in print. In my tenure at the USDA I saw
many people get promoted out. The were promoted to a grade that was
higher than their position which required them to get a position in
another agency at their new grade. This was the easiest and fastest way
to get them to out.

Also, incompetence was abundant and all you could do was send people to
classes to try and make them un-incompetent. This helped but it rarely
resolved the problem.

DePlume can believe that AlGore reduced the government rolls by 350,000
but what she isn't saying is that Bill Clinton increased them by 500,000
at the same time.


What percentage of your employer's business is done with federal, state,
and local governmental agencies, or other corporations whose main
business is with government or governmental agencies?

In article ,
says...

On 1/4/11 6:56 PM, Harryk wrote:
On 1/4/11 6:51 PM, John H wrote:
On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 12:49:02 -0500, wrote:



O
wrote:

In truth, nothing is permanent in life - including life itself, but
the definition has to exist so that some order can be made out of
hiring, firing, replacing labor or workers.


A federal Civil Service worker is about as hard to get rid of as a
tenured professor. There has not been a real RIF (layoff) since the
50s. There have been some reorganizations that eliminated jobs but the
workers simply moved across the street, or in some cases just stayed
where they were and GSA changed the sign on the building. (The Carter
administration was probably the best example of that). A GSA guy I
knew said they were thinking about using thumb screws to mount the
signs because they changed so often.

It is possible to fire a government worker for stealing or not showing
up but if they are there every day, you can't fire them for
incompetence or goofing off..They just get shuffled off to another
agency if anything happens at all. Usually they just get put back in a
corner and ignored.

The AFGE is quite protective. They can manage to waste enough time of
supervisors that it's probably cheaper to reassign the non-performer.
Probably
similar to the firing of worthless teachers. Where the union is
strong, the
non-performers are in luck.

The public (and their kids) suffer.

Oooooh...I just love it when righties do their best to maintain a
non-confrontational atmospherein rec.boats.

Me, I'll just...watch.

This does seem very confrontational. Is this the real Harry or a
Spoofer doing his best to stir up the pot?

It's a spoofer. I'd never stir the pot. I'd also never lie.

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 18:56:04 -0500, Harryk wrote:

On 1/4/11 6:51 PM, John H wrote:
On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 12:49:02 -0500, wrote:



O
wrote:

In truth, nothing is permanent in life - including life itself, but
the definition has to exist so that some order can be made out of
hiring, firing, replacing labor or workers.


A federal Civil Service worker is about as hard to get rid of as a
tenured professor. There has not been a real RIF (layoff) since the
50s. There have been some reorganizations that eliminated jobs but the
workers simply moved across the street, or in some cases just stayed
where they were and GSA changed the sign on the building. (The Carter
administration was probably the best example of that). A GSA guy I
knew said they were thinking about using thumb screws to mount the
signs because they changed so often.

It is possible to fire a government worker for stealing or not showing
up but if they are there every day, you can't fire them for
incompetence or goofing off..They just get shuffled off to another
agency if anything happens at all. Usually they just get put back in a
corner and ignored.

The AFGE is quite protective. They can manage to waste enough time of
supervisors that it's probably cheaper to reassign the non-performer. Probably
similar to the firing of worthless teachers. Where the union is strong, the
non-performers are in luck.

The public (and their kids) suffer.

Oooooh...I just love it when righties do their best to maintain a
non-confrontational atmospherein rec.boats.

Me, I'll just...watch.

It's January, so I'll respond.

No one said anything confrontational, except you. I've had the experiences
described above.

As far as starting things, you just made a nice attempt to do so.

On 1/5/11 10:13 AM, John H wrote:
On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 18:56:04 -0500, wrote:

On 1/4/11 6:51 PM, John H wrote:
On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 12:49:02 -0500, wrote:



O
wrote:

In truth, nothing is permanent in life - including life itself, but
the definition has to exist so that some order can be made out of
hiring, firing, replacing labor or workers.


A federal Civil Service worker is about as hard to get rid of as a
tenured professor. There has not been a real RIF (layoff) since the
50s. There have been some reorganizations that eliminated jobs but the
workers simply moved across the street, or in some cases just stayed
where they were and GSA changed the sign on the building. (The Carter
administration was probably the best example of that). A GSA guy I
knew said they were thinking about using thumb screws to mount the
signs because they changed so often.

It is possible to fire a government worker for stealing or not showing
up but if they are there every day, you can't fire them for
incompetence or goofing off..They just get shuffled off to another
agency if anything happens at all. Usually they just get put back in a
corner and ignored.

The AFGE is quite protective. They can manage to waste enough time of
supervisors that it's probably cheaper to reassign the non-performer. Probably
similar to the firing of worthless teachers. Where the union is strong, the
non-performers are in luck.

The public (and their kids) suffer.

Oooooh...I just love it when righties do their best to maintain a
non-confrontational atmospherein rec.boats.

Me, I'll just...watch.

It's January, so I'll respond.

No one said anything confrontational, except you. I've had the experiences
described above.

As far as starting things, you just made a nice attempt to do so.


It's hard, but not impossible, to believe you don't see the
"non-confrontational" aspects of your union-bashing post.

On Tue, 4 Jan 2011 16:00:10 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote:

On Jan 1, 8:41*pm, "Califbill" wrote:
"Harryk" *wrote in message

...

On 1/1/11 12:43 PM, wrote:

Wow... this will be fun!

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranci.../san-francisco...

Where would the actual racing take place? Out in the open ocean or...a
course around Alcatraz Island? The latter would sure draw shoreline
crowds on all sides of the Bay.

Reply: *Could be around Alcatraz to the Farallon Islands *and back. *already
a couple sailboat races a year that do that. *About 26 miles to the islands.
There are questions on how a bankrupt city like SF can afford to do the
upgrades required.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110101/...iling_americas

I'm not really into that kind of racing but if it can pump some more
money back into the US I'm all for it.

Tim, I never had any use for it either, until the 1992 race was held. We were in
Germany, and Armed Forces Network carried it live, from about 2AM to 5AM. The
announcers were great. They would explain the tactics being used and use
diagrams to show what was happening. If it had just been a picture of some sail
boats chasing each other, we'd have lost interest immediately. I've seen some
broadc asts since then, but not with the announcing that we had for the 1992
race.

I definitely don't like the way the stations here will try to cram three hours
worth of racing into a half-hour show.

But, having said that...if you're up for a Moto Guzzi ride to San Francisco,
just say the word. Hell, we can probably stay with Calif Bill. He's got a pretty
decent head on his shoulders. He'd probably keep us out of trouble with the
gays, pedophiles, transvestites, etc, etc, roaming the streets looking for
handsome young lads such as you and me!

On Wed, 05 Jan 2011 10:20:37 -0500, Harryk
wrote:

It's hard, but not impossible, to believe you don't see the
"non-confrontational" aspects of your union-bashing post.

It's not necessarily bashing when the truth is spoken. On the other
hand it is certainly off topic, and to a certain extent, inflammatory.

Given all that, and in the interest of group harmony, discussions of
unions and government employees don't really belong here. We all know
how it ends up and there is very little new that hasn't already been
said in the past.

I'd rather talk about boats and boating - went for a nice little sail
yesterday on the Caloosahatchie River. Boat was a 24 ft Sonar class
which sails very well with 2 to 6 people aboard but 3 or 4 is close to
ideal. Weather was very nice - mid 70s with light to moderate winds.

http://www.getawaysailing.com/images2/sonar.jpg

http://www.nyss.com/NYSS/Jpeg/nyss-08.jpg

http://www.nyss.com/NYSS/Jpeg/nyss-09.jpg