On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 23:09:14 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 19:44:02 -0800, wrote:


Same with dolphins. Why don't we just round them up and slaughter
them. They don't serve any useful purpose.

Not true. Dolphins are fast, smart, very photogenic and seem to like
both people and boats! :-)

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=-yAH8NJ7CP0



It doesn't matter. They don't contribute to corporate America in any
significant way. They should be killed on sight.

Ah but that is not true at all. The navy uses dolphins in covert
operations and places like Sea World make millions off of them.
Dolphins can be trained to do things people will pay to watch.
.

And, manatees are a tourist attraction as well. Indeed they contribute
to our future and our children's enjoyment.

On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 23:20:01 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 19:44:48 -0800, wrote:

The issue is not he animal itself it is the fact that we have lured
them into places where they can get killed by boats and then want to
stop the boats from being there.
We just want FPL to stop luring them into the river. Just follow the
Endangered Species Act, that is all we want. They are a migratory
species and we are interfering with that migratory pattern.
It is similar to the Canada Geese that people entice into staying over
the winter and causing problems.

I guess we have no impact on how they travel then? Give me a break.

The impact we have is negative. We use artificially heated water to
lure them into places where they do not have enough to eat, they foul
the water because too many are in too small a spot (causing any number
of illnesses) and that also happens to be in the only east west
waterway in Florida.
If we were following the ESA law we would prevent FPL from dumping hot
water in the river, we would not be requiring them to do it. Then the
manatee would migrate south in the winter like they had been doing for
the last 100,000 years ... until we created warm water pools.
The reality is the high efficiency power plant we have here does not
really put much hot water in the river so we are paying them to heat
water. Why don't the global warming people get mad about that. It
increases the power plant's carbon footprint with no benefit to the
customer or the economy.
I have a gas pool heater, I know how much gas it takes to heat water.
I don't use the heater..

So all those boats are doing the right thing and running them over is
just fine.

On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 15:23:13 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 11:07:45 -0800, wrote:

On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 23:09:14 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 19:44:02 -0800, wrote:


Same with dolphins. Why don't we just round them up and slaughter
them. They don't serve any useful purpose.

Not true. Dolphins are fast, smart, very photogenic and seem to like
both people and boats! :-)

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=-yAH8NJ7CP0



It doesn't matter. They don't contribute to corporate America in any
significant way. They should be killed on sight.

Ah but that is not true at all. The navy uses dolphins in covert
operations and places like Sea World make millions off of them.
Dolphins can be trained to do things people will pay to watch.
.

And, manatees are a tourist attraction as well. Indeed they contribute
to our future and our children's enjoyment.

Not so much

So, it's a matter of profit that is the determining factor...
Corporate America wins again!

On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 15:24:22 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 11:09:16 -0800, wrote:

On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 23:20:01 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 19:44:48 -0800, wrote:

The issue is not he animal itself it is the fact that we have lured
them into places where they can get killed by boats and then want to
stop the boats from being there.
We just want FPL to stop luring them into the river. Just follow the
Endangered Species Act, that is all we want. They are a migratory
species and we are interfering with that migratory pattern.
It is similar to the Canada Geese that people entice into staying over
the winter and causing problems.

I guess we have no impact on how they travel then? Give me a break.

The impact we have is negative. We use artificially heated water to
lure them into places where they do not have enough to eat, they foul
the water because too many are in too small a spot (causing any number
of illnesses) and that also happens to be in the only east west
waterway in Florida.
If we were following the ESA law we would prevent FPL from dumping hot
water in the river, we would not be requiring them to do it. Then the
manatee would migrate south in the winter like they had been doing for
the last 100,000 years ... until we created warm water pools.
The reality is the high efficiency power plant we have here does not
really put much hot water in the river so we are paying them to heat
water. Why don't the global warming people get mad about that. It
increases the power plant's carbon footprint with no benefit to the
customer or the economy.
I have a gas pool heater, I know how much gas it takes to heat water.
I don't use the heater..

So all those boats are doing the right thing and running them over is
just fine.

I didn't say that at all but when you attract them to the place where
the boats HAVE TO GO, some will get hit. This is the ONLY east west
route across Florida.

And, someone gunning their engine is more important than the manatee
getting to it's destination...

On 11/23/2010 4:47 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 15:23:13 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 11:07:45 -0800, wrote:

On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 23:09:14 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 19:44:02 -0800, wrote:


Same with dolphins. Why don't we just round them up and slaughter
them. They don't serve any useful purpose.

Not true. Dolphins are fast, smart, very photogenic and seem to like
both people and boats! :-)

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=-yAH8NJ7CP0



It doesn't matter. They don't contribute to corporate America in any
significant way. They should be killed on sight.

Ah but that is not true at all. The navy uses dolphins in covert
operations and places like Sea World make millions off of them.
Dolphins can be trained to do things people will pay to watch.
.

And, manatees are a tourist attraction as well. Indeed they contribute
to our future and our children's enjoyment.

Not so much

So, it's a matter of profit that is the determining factor...
Corporate America wins again!

Did you ever work at Crane, Poole & Schmidt?

On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 18:42:49 -0500, HarryK wrote:

On 11/23/2010 4:47 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 15:23:13 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 11:07:45 -0800, wrote:

On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 23:09:14 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 19:44:02 -0800, wrote:


Same with dolphins. Why don't we just round them up and slaughter
them. They don't serve any useful purpose.

Not true. Dolphins are fast, smart, very photogenic and seem to like
both people and boats! :-)

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=-yAH8NJ7CP0



It doesn't matter. They don't contribute to corporate America in any
significant way. They should be killed on sight.

Ah but that is not true at all. The navy uses dolphins in covert
operations and places like Sea World make millions off of them.
Dolphins can be trained to do things people will pay to watch.
.

And, manatees are a tourist attraction as well. Indeed they contribute
to our future and our children's enjoyment.

Not so much

So, it's a matter of profit that is the determining factor...
Corporate America wins again!

Did you ever work at Crane, Poole & Schmidt?

They made me an offer, but I couldn't see working with Shatner. lol

wrote in message ...

On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 23:34:44 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 23:20:01 -0500, wrote:

I have a gas pool heater, I know how much gas it takes to heat water.
I don't use the heater..

Have you analyzed the cost of a gas pool heater vs high efficiency
reverse cycle electric? It's kind of a moot question for me since we
don't have gas here (only propane) but just curious.

This is actually propane too. 330,000 BTU Starite.
I never really looked into it. I got the heater for free.
My wife has 7 heated pools at the country club and they are using heat
pumps. They have huge bills.


Reply:
I run a solar heater on my pool and have a floating blanket to keep it warm.
Blanket not really needed in the mid summer most of the time. Used to have
a gas heater. Natural gas and the little needle on the meter looked like
the front end of Cessna when I heated my pool via the gas heater. Only did
it twice for parties. Neighbor heated his pool one may to get an extra
couple weeks on the start of the season. $450 gas bill and that was 25
years ago.

Califbill wrote:
wrote in message ...

On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 23:34:44 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 23:20:01 -0500, wrote:

I have a gas pool heater, I know how much gas it takes to heat water.
I don't use the heater..

Have you analyzed the cost of a gas pool heater vs high efficiency
reverse cycle electric? It's kind of a moot question for me since we
don't have gas here (only propane) but just curious.

This is actually propane too. 330,000 BTU Starite.
I never really looked into it. I got the heater for free.
My wife has 7 heated pools at the country club and they are using heat
pumps. They have huge bills.


Reply:
I run a solar heater on my pool and have a floating blanket to keep it
warm. Blanket not really needed in the mid summer most of the time.
Used to have a gas heater. Natural gas and the little needle on the
meter looked like the front end of Cessna when I heated my pool via
the gas heater. Only did it twice for parties. Neighbor heated his
pool one may to get an extra couple weeks on the start of the season.
$450 gas bill and that was 25 years ago.

I used my electric heater one cold November to heat the pool for some
out of town friends for a week. The electric bill was almost $400
higher than normal. This was only 5-6 years ago and I was only "adding"
15º!

http://www.news-press.com/article/20...ion-from-cold-

Theyr'e on the move Greg. Yep -to the power plant.

his week’s cold weather has dropped local water temperatures into the
mid-60s, prompting the cold-sensitive endangered species to swim in
large numbers up the Caloosahatchee River to the Florida Power & Light
warm-water discharge in the Orange River, the site of Lee County’s
Manatee Park, east of Fort Myers.

“I was at Manatee Park yesterday, and there were no manatees, and
today, wow, they’re stacked up,” Capt. Denis Grealish of the Florida
Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission said Friday.

“Herds of manatees are heading up river at a fast clip.”

With that many manatees on the move, and with good boating weather
forecast for the weekend, chances of collisions with boats increase
dramatically.

So far this year, boats have killed 11 manatees in Lee County waters."
"...In a typical year, 25 percent of all manatee deaths are caused by
boat strikes, but 2010 has not been typical.

Through October, 65 of the state’s 668 manatee deaths were caused by
boats (9.7 percent); 244 manatees (36.5 percent) died from cold
stress, most as a result of January’s record cold water temperatures.

As dozens of manatees took advantage of the warm Florida Power & Light
discharge Friday, dozens of visitors took advantage of the marine
mammal spectacle at Manatee Park.

On 12/4/10 5:06 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 4 Dec 2010 00:46:17 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

http://www.news-press.com/article/20...ion-from-cold-

Theyr'e on the move Greg. Yep -to the power plant.


I was at the DEP office Friday for my water quality QA and I talked to
one of the biologists. She says when they do necropsy in the winter
they are finding manatee with undigested grass still in their throats.
The literally freeze while they are eating if they venture away from
the power plant. If they stay there they starve.

Yeah we are really "saving them".

The crime is heating the water.

Gee, on that note, I suppose I should ask my wife to shut off the
"birdbath" water heater she runs outdoors all winter, so that passing
birds have unfrozen water to drink.