On Oct 25, 11:13*am, "Paul@BYC" wrote:


Not me.


Me either.

On Oct 29, 10:24*pm, "Harry " wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...





On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:12:04 -0400, "Harry " wrote:

"I am Tosk" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
Forgive me, but I've been out of town until a couple of days ago, and
I didn't see, except second-hand, that there was a movement to clean
up the newsgroup. I'm happy to support that, certainly.

Cool....

--
Rowdy Mouse Racing - Pain is temporary, Glory is forever!

Let me know how that works out. ;-)

I'm happy to report that there has been a great deal of progress here
in the early stages, more so than I might have expected.

Now for the next step, why don't you give up that "Harry " handle that
you have adopted and go back to your old likable self, who ever that
might be. * :-)

I've worked hard to make Harry a household name around here...........and
you want me to abandon him. Whatever for?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Cause like rat poison you were here for a good reason so we held our
noses and let it go.. But now the mission is over, time to move along
now unless you enjoy being the poster you came here to slay...

On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 00:55:26 -0400, wrote:

Most of the profit is in marking up chinese goods and selling them. We
still do not make much here anymore.

There are some notable exceptions however including your old employer,
IBM. One of the things that stood out on our recent European trip is
the large amount of new looking John Deere and Caterpillar equipment
that is being used over there. Both of them are obviously doing
something right.

On Oct 29, 10:24*pm, "Harry " wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...



On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:12:04 -0400, "Harry " wrote:

"I am Tosk" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
Forgive me, but I've been out of town until a couple of days ago, and
I didn't see, except second-hand, that there was a movement to clean
up the newsgroup. I'm happy to support that, certainly.

Cool....

--
Rowdy Mouse Racing - Pain is temporary, Glory is forever!

Let me know how that works out. ;-)

I'm happy to report that there has been a great deal of progress here
in the early stages, more so than I might have expected.

Now for the next step, why don't you give up that "Harry " handle that
you have adopted and go back to your old likable self, who ever that
might be. * :-)

I've worked hard to make Harry a household name around here...........and
you want me to abandon him. Whatever for?

Not quite as hard as you've worked to be a total asshole/fluffer in
here.

On Oct 30, 5:33*am, "JustWaitAFrekinMinute!"
wrote:
On Oct 29, 10:24*pm, "Harry " wrote:



"Wayne.B" wrote in message

.. .

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:12:04 -0400, "Harry " wrote:

"I am Tosk" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
Forgive me, but I've been out of town until a couple of days ago, and
I didn't see, except second-hand, that there was a movement to clean
up the newsgroup. I'm happy to support that, certainly.

Cool....

--
Rowdy Mouse Racing - Pain is temporary, Glory is forever!

Let me know how that works out. ;-)

I'm happy to report that there has been a great deal of progress here
in the early stages, more so than I might have expected.

Now for the next step, why don't you give up that "Harry " handle that
you have adopted and go back to your old likable self, who ever that
might be. * :-)

I've worked hard to make Harry a household name around here...........and
you want me to abandon him. Whatever for?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Cause like rat poison you were here for a good reason so we held our
noses and let it go.. But now the mission is over, time to move along
now unless you enjoy being the poster you came here to slay...

Too bad he slew no one. But you're still being a little cocksucker/
loser.

On Oct 30, 7:43*am, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 00:55:26 -0400, wrote:
Most of the profit is in marking up chinese goods and selling them. We
still do not make much here anymore.

There are some notable exceptions however including your old employer,
IBM. * One of the things that stood out on our recent European trip is
the large amount of new looking John Deere and Caterpillar equipment
that is being used over there. *Both of them are obviously doing
something right.

Better than using the ****ty equipment they manufacture in Belarus.

On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 15:58:19 -0400, wrote:

IBM doesn't make much here. They are very profitable because they sell
offshore equipment at premium prices and broker offshore technical
assistance. They make heavy use of contractors and business partners
here in the US. They are hiring because they have laid off or retired
all of the higher paid employees. My only warning to kids taking those
jobs, is watch your back.

Have they closed the big mainframe assembly operation in Poughkeepsie
and the chip making plants in Fishkill and Burlington?

Pretty much. I think there are still a few high end chips made in
Fishkill but the bulk of the chips were coming form the Pacific rim
when I retired in 96.
Mainframes are not those big honkers we had in the 20th century. It is
as likely to just be blades in a rack as anything.


That's too bad. IBM was always an important part of the downstate NY
economy and they attracted a lot of good people to the area.

On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 00:57:25 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:09:01 -0700, wrote:

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:32:26 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:18:04 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:03:37 -0400, wrote:

He said just what I said. The US Middle Class has not had a raise
since 1973 ... and he said it 30 times or more here.

Maybe Bob's middle class didn't but certainly a lot of other middle
class folks did better by any reasonable measure. I'd agree that a
lot of that was the result of two income families and better job
opportunities for women. Of course the unfortunate result of better
opportunities for women meant fewer for guys with marginal skils or
work ethic.

I believe that too. I just did not want to start that fight ;-)

It is a case of supply and demand. When you double the number of
workers, wages will fall.

That implies a steady-state economy, which doesn't exist.

The economy is barely keeping pace with the population. That is why we
are creating lots of jobs and the unemployment rate is static.

We're creating jobs and those who've given up looking are starting to
do so again. That's what's going on, mostly. It's a big hill to climb.

On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 00:55:26 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:07:36 -0700, wrote:

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:03:37 -0400, wrote:


The fact remains the US was the engine of democracy and the growth
leader of the world in these times

The fact remains that we still are. Our economy is improving, big
corporations are making record profits, but it's going to take a while
to recover from all the years of bs.


The "record profits" do not seem to be trickling down to the workers
(Bob help me out here)
Most of the profit is in marking up chinese goods and selling them. We
still do not make much here anymore.

So, the gov't is to blame because corps are hoarding cash and trying
to influence the election, so that more Republicans can get elected,
who will gut the regulations.

Please cite the profit numbers. Exxon/Mobile is making huge profits
right now. I don't think they're marking up Chinese goods.


Much like the Chinese, we didn't know we were oppressed.

So, I guess the active and vocal right and left media don't identify
any problems. Who knew? I guess you never heard of Edward R. Murrow
calling out McCarthyism?

I also remember one of the most quoted supreme court decisions was
Schenck where OW Holmes told is about fire in a crowded theater and
that was a decision that upheld the government's power to quash an
anti-war demonstration and throw Mr Schenck in jail for speaking out
about the draft.

And your point? Things are a bit better these days.

Are they? I suppose it is great that people can picket the white house
with signs calling obama a muslim communist from Kenya but does that
really make is stronger?

Actually, it does. Free speech is mostly a good thing. I might not
agree with what someone says, but as long as they're not advocating
violence, I'm willing to defend their right to say it.

How about the idea that money has free speech rights?

Money? You mean the Citizen's United decision? That was a horrible
example of judicial activism.


In the 40s the press was not allowed to talk about the president's
health, in the 60s we couldn't talk about the president's girlfriends,
in the 50s, 60s and 70s we had the "equal time" law that restricted
political commentary on TV. There was plenty of censorship about
things that were "immoral" or just in bad taste on TV with the
government largely making that decision.

And this was when we were "great"???

It was when we had an expanding middle class and when we were the
fastest growing economy in the world.


The middle class in this country is not extinct. It's been battered,
but not deep fried just yet. Having the "fastest growing economy in
the world" isn't the most important thing nor is it necessarily a good
thing.


You will have to fight this out with Bob. He certainly thinks you are
wrong ... but you are likely also in the top 5%

Yes, admittedly I'm in the top few percent... certainly not mega rich,
but I can't complain. I don't mind paying a bit more in taxes either.


As for environmental laws. under our current law, there would have
been no Hoover Dam, the LA water system and hence the development of
most of Southern and central California. There would also not have
been a TVA, and that probably meant no atom bomb.

So, we should go back and keep on polluting? That's going to make us
great again?

We only have to look at the super fund sites to see what industries
would not exist with current laws. That may have been horrible
environmentally but it was the opportunity that let us dominate in
technology.

And, again... you want us to dominate what exactly? How about we
actually get our collective sh*t together, which means getting our
sh*t cleaned up, and actually competing through intellect
.

I don't think we ever really competed on intellect. We were just very
good at bringing products to market cheaply and quickly. They were
seldom the best product, nor were they particularly innovative, we
just made a lot of them.

Huh? We have more Nobels than any other country and we're ranked 11th
out of 40 per capita.

So what? That is just intellectuals patting each other on the back. It
has very little to do with the average working person. There is no
Nobel Prize for creating jobs.

You claimed we don't compete nor have competed on intellect. When I
cited actual numbers, you claimed it has nothing to do with the
"average person" or for "creating jobs." That's a total non-sequitur.

What would you rather have, a 58 Chevy or a 58 Mercedes Benz?

Depends on it's condition of course. I imagine that there would be
some 58 Chevys that are worth quite a bit.


In the same condition, the Benz is worth a lot more

What if I don't like the look of the Benz? What if I like the look of
the Chevy?

As for personal freedom, we did not have the woman's right to chose,
civil rights, the EPA, OSHA, CPSC and other things the chinese lack.

Yet we do now. So, you're saying that a woman's right to VOTE or
Choose or be a full citizen was required to be competitive? You're
claiming we should scrap OSHA and the EPA for the sake of competing
with the Chinese??

I agree we do not want to go back to the bad old days but that also
means we will lose significant market share. China is not going to
dominate the solar PV market because they make the best solar
collector. They will dominate because they make the cheapest one.

You can have a 100% market share of the buggy whip industry and still
lose.

Are you saying solar technology is a buggy whip business?

What I said, poorly, is that cheapest isn't always best... nor is
market share the end all and be all of business success.

Maybe you want to rephrase.
The fact is, the first company to actually produce that mythical
dollar a watt solar collector is going to rule the world. That is
about where solar actually starts to make sense.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...r-wind/4306443

I guess we're the ruling country.

Cheaper isn't always better. Example: McDs. And, it's not even clear
that cheaper is actually cheaper in the long run.


Humm, lets see.
Ruth's Chris Steak house stock was $20 in 2007 it is $5 now
McDonalds was $40 in 2007 it is $70 now.
Maybe cheaper is better.

As long as you don't factor in health...


Yet Bob says those were the last days that the middle class actually
got a raise. (pre 1973)

I don't know what Bob said.

He said just what I said. The US Middle Class has not had a raise
since 1973 ... and he said it 30 times or more here.

Take it up with Bob. I am not his savior.

It is a statistic that is all over liberal TV, I know you have heard
it.

A statistic? There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 07:43:04 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 00:55:26 -0400, wrote:

Most of the profit is in marking up chinese goods and selling them. We
still do not make much here anymore.

There are some notable exceptions however including your old employer,
IBM. One of the things that stood out on our recent European trip is
the large amount of new looking John Deere and Caterpillar equipment
that is being used over there. Both of them are obviously doing
something right.

We've got exports up quite a bit, since the dollar has fallen. That's
the reason why it's not so Obama or white (sorry, couldn't help it)
that a falling (or rising dollar) is good or bad. It's a mixed bag.