Anchor Question
 

One of my recent students who shall remain nameless, failed to
complete a homework assignment after apparently losing interest in the
subject. Therefore I will throw it open to the group.

You are in a 40 something boat, power or sail makes no difference,
anchored in over 40 feet of water with 3/8ths chain and a 60 pound
anchor. The combination of chain and anchor weigh about 150 pounds
not counting the large mud ball that wants to come up also, easily 200
pounds total. The chain and anchor are worth something over $1500
and not easily replaced in remote locations.

The problem: The anchor windlass has failed in some unfortunate way,
and not easily repaired. How do you retrieve your expensive anchor
and chain?

Anchor Question
 

Wayne.B wrote:
One of my recent students who shall remain nameless, failed to
complete a homework assignment after apparently losing interest in the
subject. Therefore I will throw it open to the group.

You are in a 40 something boat, power or sail makes no difference,
anchored in over 40 feet of water with 3/8ths chain and a 60 pound
anchor. The combination of chain and anchor weigh about 150 pounds
not counting the large mud ball that wants to come up also, easily 200
pounds total. The chain and anchor are worth something over $1500
and not easily replaced in remote locations.

The problem: The anchor windlass has failed in some unfortunate way,
and not easily repaired. How do you retrieve your expensive anchor
and chain?

If you're able-bodied and strong you just haul it up by hand.
If you have other crew they can haul with you.
If you're "a recent student" there are other ways.
Maybe just watch somebody else do it.
Or maybe pitch in with some ideas and effort.
I won't be the student who always raises his hand first.
Let's give the lubbers a chance to show their stuff.
Harry? DePlume?

Jim - The Salt.

Anchor Question
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
One of my recent students who shall remain nameless, failed to
complete a homework assignment after apparently losing interest in the
subject. Therefore I will throw it open to the group.

You are in a 40 something boat, power or sail makes no difference,
anchored in over 40 feet of water with 3/8ths chain and a 60 pound
anchor. The combination of chain and anchor weigh about 150 pounds
not counting the large mud ball that wants to come up also, easily 200
pounds total. The chain and anchor are worth something over $1500
and not easily replaced in remote locations.

The problem: The anchor windlass has failed in some unfortunate way,
and not easily repaired. How do you retrieve your expensive anchor
and chain?

Well, you don't do what Larry said, "If the windlass fails, you cut and run.
I'll bet there are tens of
thousands of anchors on the bottom of the ocean that were stuck and the
Captain had no other choice."

Do I get 1/2 credit?

Anchor Question
 

"Jim" wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
One of my recent students who shall remain nameless, failed to
complete a homework assignment after apparently losing interest in the
subject. Therefore I will throw it open to the group.

You are in a 40 something boat, power or sail makes no difference,
anchored in over 40 feet of water with 3/8ths chain and a 60 pound
anchor. The combination of chain and anchor weigh about 150 pounds
not counting the large mud ball that wants to come up also, easily 200
pounds total. The chain and anchor are worth something over $1500
and not easily replaced in remote locations.

The problem: The anchor windlass has failed in some unfortunate way,
and not easily repaired. How do you retrieve your expensive anchor
and chain?

If you're able-bodied and strong you just haul it up by hand.
If you have other crew they can haul with you.
If you're "a recent student" there are other ways.
Maybe just watch somebody else do it.
Or maybe pitch in with some ideas and effort.
I won't be the student who always raises his hand first.
Let's give the lubbers a chance to show their stuff.
Harry? DePlume?

Jim - The Salt.

My suggestion was, drive up to the anchor while pulling in the chain, then
you only have to pull up a relatively small amount. Actually, it was, I
believe YOUR suggestion. So, feel free to ask Wayne for additional
clarification, since he's the "expert."

Anchor Question
 

On 21/06/2010 4:49 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
One of my recent students who shall remain nameless, failed to
complete a homework assignment after apparently losing interest in the
subject. Therefore I will throw it open to the group.

You are in a 40 something boat, power or sail makes no difference,
anchored in over 40 feet of water with 3/8ths chain and a 60 pound
anchor. The combination of chain and anchor weigh about 150 pounds
not counting the large mud ball that wants to come up also, easily 200
pounds total. The chain and anchor are worth something over $1500
and not easily replaced in remote locations.

The problem: The anchor windlass has failed in some unfortunate way,
and not easily repaired. How do you retrieve your expensive anchor
and chain?

Drag the bottom with hook the right size to snag the chain.
--
The bigger government gets, the more it tends to rule out common sense.

Anchor Question
 

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 20:22:44 -0400, W1TEF
wrote:

The problem: The anchor windlass has failed in some unfortunate way,
and not easily repaired. How do you retrieve your expensive anchor
and chain?

Ok, so when you say "failed", you must mean that you can't use the
windlass's mechanical leverage either.

Yes, the windlass is totally inoperational for some reason.

Hmmm - what kind of anchor are we talking about here? Bruce style?
Danforth? Kedge? Plow? One of those weirdo delta wing types? It does
make a difference.

It could be any of those, all popular for various reasons. All we
know for sure is that it is a big, heavy, expensive anchor that is not
something we want to leave behind without a fight.

My assumption is that it is too heavy to be easily lifted by brute
force, and it is probably well set/dug in.

Anchor Question
 

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 17:25:20 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


"Wayne.B" wrote in message
.. .
One of my recent students who shall remain nameless, failed to
complete a homework assignment after apparently losing interest in the
subject. Therefore I will throw it open to the group.

You are in a 40 something boat, power or sail makes no difference,
anchored in over 40 feet of water with 3/8ths chain and a 60 pound
anchor. The combination of chain and anchor weigh about 150 pounds
not counting the large mud ball that wants to come up also, easily 200
pounds total. The chain and anchor are worth something over $1500
and not easily replaced in remote locations.

The problem: The anchor windlass has failed in some unfortunate way,
and not easily repaired. How do you retrieve your expensive anchor
and chain?

Well, you don't do what Larry said, "If the windlass fails, you cut and run.
I'll bet there are tens of
thousands of anchors on the bottom of the ocean that were stuck and the
Captain had no other choice."


I'm sure there are but this is not a case of the anchor being "stuck".

Do I get 1/2 credit?


No. Failure is not an option if you are cruising in the boondocks
and your primary anchor is playing hard to get.

Anchor Question
 

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 21:12:32 -0400, W1TEF
wrote:

Then, move up the anchor line until it is vertical. Move the anchor to
shallow water a little at a time taking up the slack. Eventually
you'll get it shallow enough to man handle it aboard.


That's creative although you are likely to run aground at some point.

I wonder something - on your GB, could you use the boom to lift it
aboard once you got it shallow enough?

That's one possibility but I have other ways that I like better. I'd
prefer to pull the anchor right where it sits for various reasons.

You're thinking in the right direction however.

Anchor Question
 

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:46:59 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

The problem: The anchor windlass has failed in some unfortunate way,
and not easily repaired. How do you retrieve your expensive anchor
and chain?

Drag the bottom with hook the right size to snag the chain.

Then what ?

Anchor Question
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
One of my recent students who shall remain nameless, failed to
complete a homework assignment after apparently losing interest in the
subject. Therefore I will throw it open to the group.

You are in a 40 something boat, power or sail makes no difference,
anchored in over 40 feet of water with 3/8ths chain and a 60 pound
anchor. The combination of chain and anchor weigh about 150 pounds
not counting the large mud ball that wants to come up also, easily 200
pounds total. The chain and anchor are worth something over $1500
and not easily replaced in remote locations.

The problem: The anchor windlass has failed in some unfortunate way,
and not easily repaired. How do you retrieve your expensive anchor
and chain?

On the 33 footer I crewed on, we would motor forward to the anchor & a bit
beyond to help loosen it. We would also get a couple of deck hands to bounce
up & down on the foredeck... using the boats rise to help lift the anchor a
few feet at a time.

Anchor Question
 

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 21:31:40 -0400, W1TEF
wrote:

I wonder something - on your GB, could you use the boom to lift it
aboard once you got it shallow enough?

I had a couple of other ideas also. The old Polyform bouy trick would
work quite well also.

The buoy trick, as I understand it, requires that the anchor rode slip
freely, either through the middle of the buoy, or through a loop
attached to the buoy. I'm concerned that a chain rode might not slip
all that well although it's certainly creative and supplies a much
needed mechanical advantage.

I believe the maximum vertical pull is limited by the maximum buoyancy
of the buoy? If we need a vertical lift of 300+ pounds, that implies
a very large buoy, something over 5 cubic feet. We also would need a
propulsion system capable of providing over 300 lbs of static thrust,
possibly difficult on a sailboat with their typically wimpy little
engines and props.

Anchor Question
 

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:57:23 -0300, "YukonBound"
wrote:



"Wayne.B" wrote in message
.. .
One of my recent students who shall remain nameless, failed to
complete a homework assignment after apparently losing interest in the
subject. Therefore I will throw it open to the group.

You are in a 40 something boat, power or sail makes no difference,
anchored in over 40 feet of water with 3/8ths chain and a 60 pound
anchor. The combination of chain and anchor weigh about 150 pounds
not counting the large mud ball that wants to come up also, easily 200
pounds total. The chain and anchor are worth something over $1500
and not easily replaced in remote locations.

The problem: The anchor windlass has failed in some unfortunate way,
and not easily repaired. How do you retrieve your expensive anchor
and chain?

On the 33 footer I crewed on, we would motor forward to the anchor & a bit
beyond to help loosen it. We would also get a couple of deck hands to bounce
up & down on the foredeck... using the boats rise to help lift the anchor a
few feet at a time.

That's a good plan for breaking it loose if you don't have a lot of
horse power available. Then you've got to hoist it, not difficult on
a 33 ft racing boat with a light anchor and usually with a mostly rope
anchor rode, quite another challenge on a bigger boat with all chain
and a heavy anchor.

Anchor Question
 

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:24:27 -0400, W1TEF
wrote:

The A-7 Polyform bouy holds 161.6 gallons of air which ~~ mumble -
mumble - carry the six, add four, times 12, price of tea in China ~~
works out to...24.8 something or other cubic feet? That right?

I'm getting about 20 cubic feet assuming 8 gallons per cube, or about
1200 pounds of buoyancy. That's a big-un, should do the trick if we
can get the chain to slip and have enough static engine thrust. Nice
solution if you've got the room for a big buoy like that. Any idea
what they cost, and what the deflated size is? A couple of them might
be useful as hurricane fenders.

http://www.polyformus.com/doc/product_a7.htm

My personal solution is to use a chain hook led to a 3,000 lb
Come-a-Long. I've tested it enough to know that it works but it would
take a while to bring up the anchor from 40 ft. The nice thing is
that Come-a-Longs are relatively cheap and don't take up a lot of
space. A multi-part block and tackle led to a chain hook or rolling
hitch should be workable also if you have enough mechanical advantage.

Anchor Question
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 21:12:32 -0400, W1TEF
wrote:

Then, move up the anchor line until it is vertical. Move the anchor to
shallow water a little at a time taking up the slack. Eventually
you'll get it shallow enough to man handle it aboard.


That's creative although you are likely to run aground at some point.

I wonder something - on your GB, could you use the boom to lift it
aboard once you got it shallow enough?

That's one possibility but I have other ways that I like better. I'd
prefer to pull the anchor right where it sits for various reasons.

You're thinking in the right direction however.

Is the anchor dug into mud or snagged on something? If it's snagged, I don't
see a way to clear it without either driving forward over it or diving on
it. From what I've read, you're supposed to have a second line from the
anchor to the surface with a float attached to mark the spot. Perhaps if it
was a double line with a pulley on it because you thought ahead (and the
anchor was in mud), you could use one end of the float line to haul down a
heavier line, attach one or more fenders and haul those down perhaps using a
regular winch, since I bet it would be pretty hard to do, and then use the
combined effort of muscle and lift from the fender to raise the anchor.

Anchor Question
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 17:25:20 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


"Wayne.B" wrote in message
. ..
One of my recent students who shall remain nameless, failed to
complete a homework assignment after apparently losing interest in the
subject. Therefore I will throw it open to the group.

You are in a 40 something boat, power or sail makes no difference,
anchored in over 40 feet of water with 3/8ths chain and a 60 pound
anchor. The combination of chain and anchor weigh about 150 pounds
not counting the large mud ball that wants to come up also, easily 200
pounds total. The chain and anchor are worth something over $1500
and not easily replaced in remote locations.

The problem: The anchor windlass has failed in some unfortunate way,
and not easily repaired. How do you retrieve your expensive anchor
and chain?

Well, you don't do what Larry said, "If the windlass fails, you cut and
run.
I'll bet there are tens of
thousands of anchors on the bottom of the ocean that were stuck and the
Captain had no other choice."


I'm sure there are but this is not a case of the anchor being "stuck".

Do I get 1/2 credit?


No. Failure is not an option if you are cruising in the boondocks
and your primary anchor is playing hard to get.

I'm willing to accept no credit. Is Larry willing to admit he's a failure?

Anchor Question
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:46:59 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

The problem: The anchor windlass has failed in some unfortunate way,
and not easily repaired. How do you retrieve your expensive anchor
and chain?

Drag the bottom with hook the right size to snag the chain.

Then what ?

Blame Obama.

Anchor Question
 

On Jun 21, 9:49*pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:46:59 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

The problem: *The anchor windlass has failed in some unfortunate way,
and not easily repaired. * How do you retrieve your expensive anchor
and chain?

Drag the bottom with hook the right size to snag the chain.

Then what ?

Blame Obama.

No need to blame him for your petty anchor problems, D'Plume. He's
doing enough to catch hell for.

Anchor Question
 

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 06:24:55 -0400, W1TEF
wrote:

Mechanical advantage would be a good way. If you used two four rove
blocks in series - that works out to something like 35 lbs (I think).
You could hang the blocks off the boom - should be solid enough for 35
lbs.

Wrong. While using a block and tackle will divide the weight among
several bits of line, the total will remain the same and that is what
the boom feels. The entire weight.

Casady

Anchor Question
 

"Richard Casady" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 06:24:55 -0400, W1TEF
wrote:

Mechanical advantage would be a good way. If you used two four rove
blocks in series - that works out to something like 35 lbs (I think).
You could hang the blocks off the boom - should be solid enough for 35
lbs.

Wrong. While using a block and tackle will divide the weight among
several bits of line, the total will remain the same and that is what
the boom feels. The entire weight.

Casady
That's correct. 35 lb pull will be felt at the bitter end of the tackle.

Anchor Question
 

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:24:27 -0400, W1TEF
wrote:

The A-7 Polyform bouy holds 161.6 gallons of air which ~~ mumble -
mumble - carry the six, add four, times 12, price of tea in China ~~
works out to...24.8 something or other cubic feet? That right?

21.6 actually. Not a significant difference.

Casady

Anchor Question
 

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 21:24:12 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:46:59 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

The problem: The anchor windlass has failed in some unfortunate way,
and not easily repaired. How do you retrieve your expensive anchor
and chain?

Drag the bottom with hook the right size to snag the chain.

Then what ?

You drag the end of the chain to the repaired and now working
windless.

Casady

Anchor Question
 

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 08:00:09 -0500, Richard Casady
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 06:24:55 -0400, W1TEF
wrote:

Mechanical advantage would be a good way. If you used two four rove
blocks in series - that works out to something like 35 lbs (I think).
You could hang the blocks off the boom - should be solid enough for 35
lbs.

Wrong. While using a block and tackle will divide the weight among
several bits of line, the total will remain the same and that is what
the boom feels. The entire weight.

Show me where I'm wrong.

Is he saying that by using the tackle the weight on the boom will be
decreased? Who said that, Tom?

--
Rowdy Mouse Racing - We race for cheese!

Anchor Question
 

On 6/22/10 6:24 AM, W1TEF wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:47:10 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:24:27 -0400,
wrote:

The A-7 Polyform bouy holds 161.6 gallons of air which ~~ mumble -
mumble - carry the six, add four, times 12, price of tea in China ~~
works out to...24.8 something or other cubic feet? That right?

I'm getting about 20 cubic feet assuming 8 gallons per cube, or about
1200 pounds of buoyancy. That's a big-un, should do the trick if we
can get the chain to slip and have enough static engine thrust. Nice
solution if you've got the room for a big buoy like that. Any idea
what they cost, and what the deflated size is? A couple of them might
be useful as hurricane fenders.

http://www.polyformus.com/doc/product_a7.htm

My personal solution is to use a chain hook led to a 3,000 lb
Come-a-Long. I've tested it enough to know that it works but it would
take a while to bring up the anchor from 40 ft. The nice thing is
that Come-a-Longs are relatively cheap and don't take up a lot of
space. A multi-part block and tackle led to a chain hook or rolling
hitch should be workable also if you have enough mechanical advantage.

That was going to be my next solution. I've never had much luck
trying to snag a hunk of chain on the bottom though even at 40 feet. I
also thought we were talking deeper than 40 feet.

Mechanical advantage would be a good way. If you used two four rove
blocks in series - that works out to something like 35 lbs (I think).
You could hang the blocks off the boom - should be solid enough for 35
lbs.


Are you planning to tie an anti-gravity belt onto what you are trying to
lift with the boom? Whatever blocks you have attached to the boom, the
boom is going to "feel" the full weight of what is solely attached to
it. Of course, I was only an English major in college, not a
hard-science wizard like you...

Carry on.

Anchor Question
 

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 08:00:09 -0500, Richard Casady
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 06:24:55 -0400, W1TEF
wrote:

Mechanical advantage would be a good way. If you used two four rove
blocks in series - that works out to something like 35 lbs (I think).
You could hang the blocks off the boom - should be solid enough for 35
lbs.

Wrong. While using a block and tackle will divide the weight among
several bits of line, the total will remain the same and that is what
the boom feels. The entire weight.

Show me where I'm wrong.

Is he saying that by using the tackle the weight on the boom will be
decreased? Who said that, Tom?

Now, if you hung the top block off the bow you might be able to use the
boom help pull in...

--
Rowdy Mouse Racing - We race for cheese!

Anchor Question
 

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 06:24:55 -0400, W1TEF
wrote:

That was going to be my next solution. I've never had much luck
trying to snag a hunk of chain on the bottom though even at 40 feet. I
also thought we were talking deeper than 40 feet.

It doesn't really matter how deep the water is since you don't need to
snag the chain on the bottom. The idea is to grab the chain near the
bow roller with a chain hook or rolling hitch, then pull the chain
horizontally toward the rear of the boat using a mechanical advantage.
If you run out of purchase before the anchor is up, tie off the chain,
reset the hook near the bow roller, repeat as needed.

Anchor Question
 

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 06:24:55 -0400, W1TEF
wrote:

That was going to be my next solution. I've never had much luck
trying to snag a hunk of chain on the bottom though even at 40 feet. I
also thought we were talking deeper than 40 feet.

It doesn't really matter how deep the water is since you don't need to
snag the chain on the bottom. The idea is to grab the chain near the
bow roller with a chain hook or rolling hitch, then pull the chain
horizontally toward the rear of the boat using a mechanical advantage.
If you run out of purchase before the anchor is up, tie off the chain,
reset the hook near the bow roller, repeat as needed.

Never thought of front to back. Thought about it from side to side, but
thought it wouldn't give you enough leverage, but just didn't follow up
thinking front to back, I would have lost my anchor...;)


--
Rowdy Mouse Racing - We race for cheese!

Anchor Question
 

On 6/22/10 10:52 AM, I am Tosk wrote:


Never thought of front to back. Thought about it from side to side, but
thought it wouldn't give you enough leverage, but just didn't follow up
thinking front to back, I would have lost my anchor...;)




How much would it cost you to replace that concrete block anchor? Just
steal another off a construction site.

Anchor Question
 

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 09:28:10 -0400, I am Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 08:00:09 -0500, Richard Casady
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 06:24:55 -0400, W1TEF
wrote:

Mechanical advantage would be a good way. If you used two four rove
blocks in series - that works out to something like 35 lbs (I think).
You could hang the blocks off the boom - should be solid enough for 35
lbs.

Wrong. While using a block and tackle will divide the weight among
several bits of line, the total will remain the same and that is what
the boom feels. The entire weight.

Show me where I'm wrong.

Is he saying that by using the tackle the weight on the boom will be
decreased? Who said that, Tom?

No - he misunderstood the nature of the answer. Yes, the weight is
still 350 pounds. What you are effectively doing is reducing the
amount of energy required to move the 350 pounds by the use of
mechanical advantage. It seems like you are only lifting 35 pounds.

Yeah, I got that... I thought he was talking about 35 pounds on the boom
holding the tackle..;)

--
Rowdy Mouse Racing - We race for cheese!

Anchor Question
 

On 6/22/10 11:49 AM, I am Tosk wrote:
In ,
says...

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 09:28:10 -0400, I am Tosk
wrote:

In ,
says...

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 08:00:09 -0500, Richard Casady
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 06:24:55 -0400,
wrote:

Mechanical advantage would be a good way. If you used two four rove
blocks in series - that works out to something like 35 lbs (I think).
You could hang the blocks off the boom - should be solid enough for 35
lbs.

Wrong. While using a block and tackle will divide the weight among
several bits of line, the total will remain the same and that is what
the boom feels. The entire weight.

Show me where I'm wrong.

Is he saying that by using the tackle the weight on the boom will be
decreased? Who said that, Tom?

No - he misunderstood the nature of the answer. Yes, the weight is
still 350 pounds. What you are effectively doing is reducing the
amount of energy required to move the 350 pounds by the use of
mechanical advantage. It seems like you are only lifting 35 pounds.

Yeah, I got that... I thought he was talking about 35 pounds on the boom
holding the tackle..;)


Oh, sure you did. After all, you studied physics...somewhere.

Anchor Question
 

On 6/22/10 12:15 PM, Moose wrote:
wrote in message
m...
On 6/22/10 6:24 AM, W1TEF wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:47:10 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:24:27 -0400,
wrote:

The A-7 Polyform bouy holds 161.6 gallons of air which ~~ mumble -
mumble - carry the six, add four, times 12, price of tea in China ~~
works out to...24.8 something or other cubic feet? That right?

I'm getting about 20 cubic feet assuming 8 gallons per cube, or about
1200 pounds of buoyancy. That's a big-un, should do the trick if we
can get the chain to slip and have enough static engine thrust. Nice
solution if you've got the room for a big buoy like that. Any idea
what they cost, and what the deflated size is? A couple of them might
be useful as hurricane fenders.

http://www.polyformus.com/doc/product_a7.htm

My personal solution is to use a chain hook led to a 3,000 lb
Come-a-Long. I've tested it enough to know that it works but it would
take a while to bring up the anchor from 40 ft. The nice thing is
that Come-a-Longs are relatively cheap and don't take up a lot of
space. A multi-part block and tackle led to a chain hook or rolling
hitch should be workable also if you have enough mechanical advantage.

That was going to be my next solution. I've never had much luck
trying to snag a hunk of chain on the bottom though even at 40 feet. I
also thought we were talking deeper than 40 feet.

Mechanical advantage would be a good way. If you used two four rove
blocks in series - that works out to something like 35 lbs (I think).
You could hang the blocks off the boom - should be solid enough for 35
lbs.


Are you planning to tie an anti-gravity belt onto what you are trying to
lift with the boom? Whatever blocks you have attached to the boom, the
boom is going to "feel" the full weight of what is solely attached to it.
Of course, I was only an English major in college, not a hard-science
wizard like you...

Carry on.
Cassiday and I gave the answer around 9:05. Your English majoring helped you
to parrot the answer along with the addition of your usual snide remarks.
Carry on.




Asshole that you are, you think I read every post here? Sorry. Never was
true, never will be true.

Who is Cassiday?

Anchor Question
 

"Harry" wrote in message
m...
On 6/22/10 6:24 AM, W1TEF wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:47:10 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:24:27 -0400,
wrote:

The A-7 Polyform bouy holds 161.6 gallons of air which ~~ mumble -
mumble - carry the six, add four, times 12, price of tea in China ~~
works out to...24.8 something or other cubic feet? That right?

I'm getting about 20 cubic feet assuming 8 gallons per cube, or about
1200 pounds of buoyancy. That's a big-un, should do the trick if we
can get the chain to slip and have enough static engine thrust. Nice
solution if you've got the room for a big buoy like that. Any idea
what they cost, and what the deflated size is? A couple of them might
be useful as hurricane fenders.

http://www.polyformus.com/doc/product_a7.htm

My personal solution is to use a chain hook led to a 3,000 lb
Come-a-Long. I've tested it enough to know that it works but it would
take a while to bring up the anchor from 40 ft. The nice thing is
that Come-a-Longs are relatively cheap and don't take up a lot of
space. A multi-part block and tackle led to a chain hook or rolling
hitch should be workable also if you have enough mechanical advantage.

That was going to be my next solution. I've never had much luck
trying to snag a hunk of chain on the bottom though even at 40 feet. I
also thought we were talking deeper than 40 feet.

Mechanical advantage would be a good way. If you used two four rove
blocks in series - that works out to something like 35 lbs (I think).
You could hang the blocks off the boom - should be solid enough for 35
lbs.


Are you planning to tie an anti-gravity belt onto what you are trying to
lift with the boom? Whatever blocks you have attached to the boom, the
boom is going to "feel" the full weight of what is solely attached to it.
Of course, I was only an English major in college, not a hard-science
wizard like you...

Carry on.
Cassiday and I gave the answer around 9:05. Your English majoring helped you
to parrot the answer along with the addition of your usual snide remarks.
Carry on.

Anchor Question
 

"Harry" wrote in message
m...
On 6/22/10 12:15 PM, Moose wrote:
wrote in message
m...
On 6/22/10 6:24 AM, W1TEF wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:47:10 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:24:27 -0400,
wrote:

The A-7 Polyform bouy holds 161.6 gallons of air which ~~ mumble -
mumble - carry the six, add four, times 12, price of tea in China ~~
works out to...24.8 something or other cubic feet? That right?

I'm getting about 20 cubic feet assuming 8 gallons per cube, or about
1200 pounds of buoyancy. That's a big-un, should do the trick if we
can get the chain to slip and have enough static engine thrust. Nice
solution if you've got the room for a big buoy like that. Any idea
what they cost, and what the deflated size is? A couple of them might
be useful as hurricane fenders.

http://www.polyformus.com/doc/product_a7.htm

My personal solution is to use a chain hook led to a 3,000 lb
Come-a-Long. I've tested it enough to know that it works but it would
take a while to bring up the anchor from 40 ft. The nice thing is
that Come-a-Longs are relatively cheap and don't take up a lot of
space. A multi-part block and tackle led to a chain hook or rolling
hitch should be workable also if you have enough mechanical advantage.

That was going to be my next solution. I've never had much luck
trying to snag a hunk of chain on the bottom though even at 40 feet. I
also thought we were talking deeper than 40 feet.

Mechanical advantage would be a good way. If you used two four rove
blocks in series - that works out to something like 35 lbs (I think).
You could hang the blocks off the boom - should be solid enough for 35
lbs.


Are you planning to tie an anti-gravity belt onto what you are trying to
lift with the boom? Whatever blocks you have attached to the boom, the
boom is going to "feel" the full weight of what is solely attached to
it.
Of course, I was only an English major in college, not a hard-science
wizard like you...

Carry on.
Cassiday and I gave the answer around 9:05. Your English majoring helped
you
to parrot the answer along with the addition of your usual snide
remarks.
Carry on.




Asshole that you are, you think I read every post here? Sorry. Never was
true, never will be true.

Who is Cassiday?

Apology to Casady.
You read all of my posts. Who do you think you are kidding?

Anchor Question
 

On 6/22/10 12:26 PM, Moose wrote:


Apology to Casady.
You read all of my posts. Who do you think you are kidding?



No...I don't. Sorry. Sorry for your ego, too. And it doesn't matter
which of your many IDs here you use. Your **** smells the same no matter
whose ID you use to post it.

Anchor Question
 

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 11:24:29 -0400, W1TEF
wrote:

What you are effectively doing is reducing the
amount of energy required to move the 350 pounds by the use of
mechanical advantage. It seems like you are only lifting 35 pounds.

Wrong. The energy is one foot pound per pound per foot. Duh.
Mechanical advantage can reduce the _force_ while incrieasing the
distance, with the total energy required remaining the same.

Casady

Anchor Question
 

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 12:22:12 -0400, W1TEF
wrote:

No - he misunderstood the nature of the answer. Yes, the weight is
still 350 pounds. What you are effectively doing is reducing the
amount of energy required to move the 350 pounds by the use of
mechanical advantage. It seems like you are only lifting 35 pounds.

Yeah, I got that... I thought he was talking about 35 pounds on the boom
holding the tackle..;)

I'd have to ask Wayne, but I think he uses the boom for the rib and
that whole rig has to weigh in at or around 350 lbs - maybe not.

We use a block and tackle arrangement to lift the boom (tilt it up)
with the RIB dinghy attached. The RIB with full fuel tanks, two
small anchors, security locks/cables, safety gear, etc., weighs
somewhere around 400 pounds. Because the block and tackle is pulling
diagonally from the top of the trawler mast, the actual initial force
required is greater than 400 lbs if you solve the vector diagram. For
discussion purposes, let's call it 500 pounds. The block and tackle
is in two parts: a 7 to 1 pulling a 2 to 1 for a theoretical total
mechanical advantage of 14 to 1. Our old nemesis friction steps into
the picture however and reduces the advantage by some significant
amount, probably around 30% which results in a real advantage of
about 10 to 1, requiring a 50 pound downward pull to lift the boom. As
the boom rises above horizontal the vectors add up more favorably so
that by the time the boom is at 45 degrees, the pull required is less
than 30 pounds.

Anchor Question
 

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 11:56:24 -0500, Richard Casady
wrote:

Wrong. The energy is one foot pound per pound per foot. Duh.
Mechanical advantage can reduce the _force_ while incrieasing the
distance, with the total energy required remaining the same.

Actually the total energy required increases because of the friction
inherent in the block and tackle assembly.

Anchor Question
 

"TopBassDog" wrote in message
...
On Jun 21, 9:49 pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:46:59 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

The problem: The anchor windlass has failed in some unfortunate way,
and not easily repaired. How do you retrieve your expensive anchor
and chain?

Drag the bottom with hook the right size to snag the chain.

Then what ?

Blame Obama.

No need to blame him for your petty anchor problems, D'Plume. He's
doing enough to catch hell for.

You're the one with the petty problems.

Anchor Question
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
One of my recent students who shall remain nameless, failed to
complete a homework assignment after apparently losing interest in the
subject. Therefore I will throw it open to the group.

You are in a 40 something boat, power or sail makes no difference,
anchored in over 40 feet of water with 3/8ths chain and a 60 pound
anchor. The combination of chain and anchor weigh about 150 pounds
not counting the large mud ball that wants to come up also, easily 200
pounds total. The chain and anchor are worth something over $1500
and not easily replaced in remote locations.

The problem: The anchor windlass has failed in some unfortunate way,
and not easily repaired. How do you retrieve your expensive anchor
and chain?

You'll notice that Larry never once acknowledged his statement "cut and run"
was fundamentally wrong. You'll also notice that I gave a rather complete
solution to this question, and all the "men" have refused to comment on it,
even the "expert" Wayne.

Anchor Question
 

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
One of my recent students who shall remain nameless, failed to
complete a homework assignment after apparently losing interest in the
subject. Therefore I will throw it open to the group.

You are in a 40 something boat, power or sail makes no difference,
anchored in over 40 feet of water with 3/8ths chain and a 60 pound
anchor. The combination of chain and anchor weigh about 150 pounds
not counting the large mud ball that wants to come up also, easily 200
pounds total. The chain and anchor are worth something over $1500
and not easily replaced in remote locations.

The problem: The anchor windlass has failed in some unfortunate way,
and not easily repaired. How do you retrieve your expensive anchor
and chain?

You'll notice that Larry never once acknowledged his statement "cut and
run" was fundamentally wrong. You'll also notice that I gave a rather
complete solution to this question, and all the "men" have refused to
comment on it, even the "expert" Wayne.


Run it by us again and I promise I will comment on it.

Anchor Question
 

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 11:56:24 -0500, Richard Casady
wrote:

Wrong. The energy is one foot pound per pound per foot. Duh.
Mechanical advantage can reduce the _force_ while incrieasing the
distance, with the total energy required remaining the same.

Actually the total energy required increases because of the friction
inherent in the block and tackle assembly.

Ok, now that's getting picky, but I was thinking along the same lines
trying to set an analogy with moving ten pound logs;) Couldn't account
for all the extra walking.

Scotty, now, out you go!!!


--
Rowdy Mouse Racing - We race for cheese!