Anchor Question
 

"Moose" wrote in message
...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
One of my recent students who shall remain nameless, failed to
complete a homework assignment after apparently losing interest in the
subject. Therefore I will throw it open to the group.

You are in a 40 something boat, power or sail makes no difference,
anchored in over 40 feet of water with 3/8ths chain and a 60 pound
anchor. The combination of chain and anchor weigh about 150 pounds
not counting the large mud ball that wants to come up also, easily 200
pounds total. The chain and anchor are worth something over $1500
and not easily replaced in remote locations.

The problem: The anchor windlass has failed in some unfortunate way,
and not easily repaired. How do you retrieve your expensive anchor
and chain?

You'll notice that Larry never once acknowledged his statement "cut and
run" was fundamentally wrong. You'll also notice that I gave a rather
complete solution to this question, and all the "men" have refused to
comment on it, even the "expert" Wayne.


Run it by us again and I promise I will comment on it.


You'd have to talk to Larry about cutting and running.

Anchor Question
 

Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:24:27 -0400, W1TEF
wrote:

The A-7 Polyform bouy holds 161.6 gallons of air which ~~ mumble -
mumble - carry the six, add four, times 12, price of tea in China ~~
works out to...24.8 something or other cubic feet? That right?

I'm getting about 20 cubic feet assuming 8 gallons per cube, or about
1200 pounds of buoyancy. That's a big-un, should do the trick if we
can get the chain to slip and have enough static engine thrust. Nice
solution if you've got the room for a big buoy like that. Any idea
what they cost, and what the deflated size is? A couple of them might
be useful as hurricane fenders.

http://www.polyformus.com/doc/product_a7.htm

My personal solution is to use a chain hook led to a 3,000 lb
Come-a-Long. I've tested it enough to know that it works but it would
take a while to bring up the anchor from 40 ft. The nice thing is
that Come-a-Longs are relatively cheap and don't take up a lot of
space. A multi-part block and tackle led to a chain hook or rolling
hitch should be workable also if you have enough mechanical advantage.


Whether you go with a come-along or block/tackle make sure it works.
The cheap block/tackles are sometime just plain worthless, coming with
ready-made frozen pulleys and cheap binding rope.
I threw away a bubble packaged 1/4 ton half a minute after I opened it.
Even a cheap come-along usually works well enough.
Here's a U.S. made come-along and block/tackle which look a couple
quality cuts above the typical Chinese crap.

http://www.garrettwade.com/come-alon...er/p/60R05.01/

http://www.garrettwade.com/product.a...cd2=1277183447

I'm not endorsing any of those. I'm just putting these links in for
DePlume, because she might be serious about this, and probably hasn't
seen any of this gear. This place could use a new young boater who
knows where to put the doilies. The old farts here are dying off.
That block/tackle above has 4:1 advantage.
The come-along might be 8:1. Hard to tell, just going by experience.
I was closer than far - looks like this one is +12:1.
https://www.aceindustries.com/p-8230...ome-along.aspx



You can get even more with the lever if put a pipe on in.
But you only want to do that if you're weak, otherwise you'll exceed its
capacity and likely break it.
Easy to break your boat in half with some of this gear.
https://www.aceindustries.com/c-24-h...ll-models.aspx
With the block/tackle more pulleys will increase the advantage, but that
takes wider blocks and more rope.
I had a heavy chain come-alone but it weighed about 70 pounds.
All drop forged and very heavy chain.
Lost it off Nantucket when a shackle broke pulling in a humpback.
A chain fall is a great pulley hoist, but again they're heavy.
Here's an example.
https://www.aceindustries.com/p-8240...chainfall.aspx
See how you pull 172 feet to lift a foot?
Don't know what the advantage ratio is, but I've hoisted +1000 lbs many
times with them, and it's almost effortless strength-wise.
Rope or chain is the only practical "line" for manual pulley hoists.
But for a light come-along on a non-whaling boat I'd go with cable.
If I had a davit without a manual winch and expected I might have to
manually hoist using it, I would have a good quality rope block/tackle
rated to the davit capacity. Then all your rigging is right at the action.
But a come-along cable run through a snatch block on the davit hook
could do the job.
Wayne might give us his preference and needs from his "big boat"
perspective.
I hung up my whaling gear some years ago when I moved to Florida, so I'm
out of the big boat loop now.

Jim - Reminiscing sure can change history.

Anchor Question
 

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 12:26:27 -0400, "Moose" wrote:


"Harry" wrote in message
om...
On 6/22/10 12:15 PM, Moose wrote:
wrote in message
m...
On 6/22/10 6:24 AM, W1TEF wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:47:10 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:24:27 -0400,
wrote:

The A-7 Polyform bouy holds 161.6 gallons of air which ~~ mumble -
mumble - carry the six, add four, times 12, price of tea in China ~~
works out to...24.8 something or other cubic feet? That right?

I'm getting about 20 cubic feet assuming 8 gallons per cube, or about
1200 pounds of buoyancy. That's a big-un, should do the trick if we
can get the chain to slip and have enough static engine thrust. Nice
solution if you've got the room for a big buoy like that. Any idea
what they cost, and what the deflated size is? A couple of them might
be useful as hurricane fenders.

http://www.polyformus.com/doc/product_a7.htm

My personal solution is to use a chain hook led to a 3,000 lb
Come-a-Long. I've tested it enough to know that it works but it would
take a while to bring up the anchor from 40 ft. The nice thing is
that Come-a-Longs are relatively cheap and don't take up a lot of
space. A multi-part block and tackle led to a chain hook or rolling
hitch should be workable also if you have enough mechanical advantage.

That was going to be my next solution. I've never had much luck
trying to snag a hunk of chain on the bottom though even at 40 feet. I
also thought we were talking deeper than 40 feet.

Mechanical advantage would be a good way. If you used two four rove
blocks in series - that works out to something like 35 lbs (I think).
You could hang the blocks off the boom - should be solid enough for 35
lbs.


Are you planning to tie an anti-gravity belt onto what you are trying to
lift with the boom? Whatever blocks you have attached to the boom, the
boom is going to "feel" the full weight of what is solely attached to
it.
Of course, I was only an English major in college, not a hard-science
wizard like you...

Carry on.
Cassiday and I gave the answer around 9:05. Your English majoring helped
you
to parrot the answer along with the addition of your usual snide
remarks.
Carry on.




Asshole that you are, you think I read every post here? Sorry. Never was
true, never will be true.

Who is Cassiday?

Don't ask before I have had my first cup of the morning coffee

Apology to Casady.
You read all of my posts. Who do you think you are kidding?

Apology? If you mean for mispelling my name, that is no big deal.
People almost always get it wrong. What got old was being asked if I
was related to Hopalong, a not bad western actor who was popular in
the forties and fifties. I was the smartest kid in the school. Not a
fun job, but somebodies luck had to run out.`

Casady

Anchor Question
 

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 13:46:52 -0500, Richard Casady
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 12:26:27 -0400, "Moose" wrote:


"Harry" wrote in message
news:DJSdnR83M_1zfb3RnZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@earthlink. com...
On 6/22/10 12:15 PM, Moose wrote:
wrote in message
m...
On 6/22/10 6:24 AM, W1TEF wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:47:10 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:24:27 -0400,
wrote:

The A-7 Polyform bouy holds 161.6 gallons of air which ~~ mumble -
mumble - carry the six, add four, times 12, price of tea in China ~~
works out to...24.8 something or other cubic feet? That right?

I'm getting about 20 cubic feet assuming 8 gallons per cube, or about
1200 pounds of buoyancy. That's a big-un, should do the trick if we
can get the chain to slip and have enough static engine thrust. Nice
solution if you've got the room for a big buoy like that. Any idea
what they cost, and what the deflated size is? A couple of them might
be useful as hurricane fenders.

http://www.polyformus.com/doc/product_a7.htm

My personal solution is to use a chain hook led to a 3,000 lb
Come-a-Long. I've tested it enough to know that it works but it would
take a while to bring up the anchor from 40 ft. The nice thing is
that Come-a-Longs are relatively cheap and don't take up a lot of
space. A multi-part block and tackle led to a chain hook or rolling
hitch should be workable also if you have enough mechanical advantage.

That was going to be my next solution. I've never had much luck
trying to snag a hunk of chain on the bottom though even at 40 feet. I
also thought we were talking deeper than 40 feet.

Mechanical advantage would be a good way. If you used two four rove
blocks in series - that works out to something like 35 lbs (I think).
You could hang the blocks off the boom - should be solid enough for 35
lbs.


Are you planning to tie an anti-gravity belt onto what you are trying to
lift with the boom? Whatever blocks you have attached to the boom, the
boom is going to "feel" the full weight of what is solely attached to
it.
Of course, I was only an English major in college, not a hard-science
wizard like you...

Carry on.
Cassiday and I gave the answer around 9:05. Your English majoring helped
you
to parrot the answer along with the addition of your usual snide
remarks.
Carry on.




Asshole that you are, you think I read every post here? Sorry. Never was
true, never will be true.

Who is Cassiday?

Don't ask before I have had my first cup of the morning coffee

Apology to Casady.
You read all of my posts. Who do you think you are kidding?

Apology? If you mean for mispelling my name, that is no big deal.
People almost always get it wrong. What got old was being asked if I
was related to Hopalong, a not bad western actor who was popular in
the forties and fifties. I was the smartest kid in the school. Not a
fun job, but somebodies luck had to run out.`

I left out the last sentences:

.. I was smart and was usually carrying a book, so people would ask me
to explain Einstein's theory of relativity. I had not yet taken
college physics and read a book or two on the subject. On that score,
of the books perporting to explain relativity to the layman,
Einstein's book is as good as any.

That got older faster than the Hopalong bit.

Casady

Anchor Question
 

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 13:32:45 -0500, Jim wrote:

You can get even more with the lever if put a pipe on in.
But you only want to do that if you're weak, otherwise you'll exceed its
capacity and likely break it.

It is normally a bad idea to use a cheater bar, if you are a mechanic
with the good hand strength they all have. For assembly, torque
wrenches mostly have relatively long handles and no cheating needed.
As for taking things apart, the gas welder is your friend. You can use
a bitty welding tip and not spread hot gas everywhere like with an
ordinary propane torch. Heat just the nut, without frying the nearby
wiring. If the torch is small enough you can heat the nut but not the
screw it is on. They sell dry ice, two bucks a pound, at the local
grocery store. You chill everythihg before you heat the nut and get
more differential expansion that hopefully will break the grip of the
rust.
You might be amazed at how much stuff you may have to remove in order
to get at what is left of a broken stud. They might have left room for
a wrench and even room for the hand to turn it, but you can spend the
time it used to take to change an engine getting at a broken screw
with a drill. My current ride requires about two hours to change the
plugs. You have to take lots of **** off and put it back later.
Luckily they last at least 100 000 miles. I don't know why a truck
needs a four cam engine, but the Lincoln Navigator has one. Sucker
went 175 000 miles before the check engine light came on. It was a
leaking valve guide. I figured that was the handwriting on the wall
and put in a rebuilt mill. I should have replaced the starter and
alternator at that time and they both went within 25 000 more miles,
luckily without any real inconvenience.

Casady

Anchor Question
 

On Jun 22, 10:24*am, W1TEF wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 09:28:10 -0400, I am Tosk





wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 08:00:09 -0500, Richard Casady
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 06:24:55 -0400, W1TEF
wrote:

Mechanical advantage would be a good way. *If you used two four rove
blocks in series - that works out to something like 35 lbs (I think)..
You could hang the blocks off the boom - should be solid enough for 35
lbs.

Wrong. While using a block and tackle will divide the weight among
several bits of line, the total will remain the same and that is what
the boom feels. The entire weight.

Show me where I'm wrong.

Is he saying that by using the tackle the weight on the boom will be
decreased? Who said that, Tom?

No - he misunderstood the nature of the answer. *Yes, the weight is
still 350 pounds. What you are effectively doing is reducing the
amount of energy required to move the 350 pounds by the use of
mechanical advantage. *It seems like you are only lifting 35 pounds.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But then again, it feels like you're lifting only 35 lb.at last 120
feet.

(I think)

Anchor Question
 

On Jun 22, 11:22*am, W1TEF
It's really a question of dislodging and moving a heavy object
attached to another heavy object using a heavy object. *:)

Interesting question though and a fun one.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


But... that reminds me.

What happens when the unstoppable object colides with the imovable
object?


Or is that for a seperate thread?

?;^ )

Anchor Question
 

On Jun 22, 1:46*pm, Richard Casady
wrote:

Apology? If you mean for mispelling my name, that is no big deal.
People almost always get it wrong. What got old was being asked if I
was related to Hopalong, a not bad western actor who was popular in
the forties and fifties. I was the smartest kid in the school. Not a
fun job, but somebodies luck had to run out.`

Casady- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I went to school with a kid named Tom Sawyer. He got tired of people
asking him "Where's Huck Finn?"

Anchor Question
 

"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Jun 22, 1:46 pm, Richard Casady
wrote:

Apology? If you mean for mispelling my name, that is no big deal.
People almost always get it wrong. What got old was being asked if I
was related to Hopalong, a not bad western actor who was popular in
the forties and fifties. I was the smartest kid in the school. Not a
fun job, but somebodies luck had to run out.`

Casady- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I went to school with a kid named Tom Sawyer. He got tired of people
asking him "Where's Huck Finn?"

I had a friend in grammar school named Cashmere Baeter. In those days it
was popular to preface boys surnames with Master.

Anchor Question
 

nom=de=plume wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
One of my recent students who shall remain nameless, failed to
complete a homework assignment after apparently losing interest in the
subject. Therefore I will throw it open to the group.

You are in a 40 something boat, power or sail makes no difference,
anchored in over 40 feet of water with 3/8ths chain and a 60 pound
anchor. The combination of chain and anchor weigh about 150 pounds
not counting the large mud ball that wants to come up also, easily 200
pounds total. The chain and anchor are worth something over $1500
and not easily replaced in remote locations.

The problem: The anchor windlass has failed in some unfortunate way,
and not easily repaired. How do you retrieve your expensive anchor
and chain?

Well, you don't do what Larry said, "If the windlass fails, you cut
and run. I'll bet there are tens of
thousands of anchors on the bottom of the ocean that were stuck and the
Captain had no other choice."

Do I get 1/2 credit?


If it's stuck, it's stuck. This is a different scenario, expert.