wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 10:07:08 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

How is that going. The time last I looked BOTH wars are still going on
and Osama is no closer to being captured than he was on Sept 12 2001.

Yeah, thanks GWB for not capturing him when he had the chance. I guess in
some people's mind 8 years = 16 months.

... or Clinton not taking him when Sudan offered him up to us.
(already suspected in the FIRST WTC bombing in 93)

Umm... that's rewriting history just a bit...

The government of Sudan, employing a back channel direct from its president
to the CIA, offered in early spring 1996 to arrest Osama bin Laden and place
him in Saudi custody, according to officials and former officials in all
three countries.

The Clinton administration struggled to find a way to accept the offer in
secret contacts that stretched from a meeting at an Arlington, Va., hotel on
March 3, 1996, to a fax that closed the door on the effort 10 weeks later.
Unable to persuade the Saudis to accept Mr. bin Laden and lacking a case to
indict him in U.S. courts at the time, the Clinton administration finally
gave up on the capture.

Clinton was actually trying to follow US law.

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 10:04:34 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 21:19:22 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
Those miles of boom in Maine supposedly failed inspection although
they meet ASTM standards and were considered "superior" by an
independent inspector. I suspect they failed cuz they were not made
from "free range nylon". Ya know, it's sorta like all those school
busses in katrina that couldn't be used for evac cuz they didn't have
seat belts, all them peeps died courtesy of Mayor Nagin and Dem Gov
Blanco. Way to go Dems, Keel them poor people and drive em to ruin to
put em on welfare.

Anyone want to tell Froggy who created the MMS? Under which president?
Anyone??


Who did absolutely zero to CHANGE it in the last 16 months? (hint: it
was Mr Change)
If it was so corrupt Obama should have fixed it BEFORE he started
proposing more offshore drilling. It is not a question of a long
process that wasn't finished. Fixing MMS had not even started so he
must have been happy with them.

That's not completely true Salazar was supposed to make some changes, and
he
did, but I think it's reasonable to say that it takes a while to fix a
situation that's been going on for decades. I thought he was the wrong
choice to begin with. So, who created MMS under which president? Come on.
You can say it.


"Creating" in Washington mostly means printing new signs for an old
building. The fact is all DC regulation is done by people who used to
work in that industry and they go back when they lose their government
job. It has been that way since George Washington, not just the recent
George.
I still say if you can't do ANYTHIING in 16 months, how much can we
expect in 8 years?
Obama shot his whole wad on this health care gift to the big medicine
lobby and let the rest of the country go to hell (or stay in hell if
that is what you think Bush was).
I guarantee, If you ask anyone on the Gulf Coast whether they would
rather have clean beaches and their fishing job back or all the
overpriced medical insurance they can't afford they would take the
clean beach.

Nope. At one point the agency was created by a former president. Guess who?
Guess who administered it?? Come on, you can say his name.... Rrrrr....
Waaaa.... lol

Obama let the economy go to hell????? That would be GWB over 8 years, and
perhaps going all the way back to Reagan.

No such "overpriced" medical insurance due to Obama. That's a result of
decades of neglect. It's now going to be changed. The change is happening,
even if you don't want to admit/see it.

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 16:22:35 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

How is that going. The time last I looked BOTH wars are still going on
and Osama is no closer to being captured than he was on Sept 12 2001.

bush let bin laden escape. bush let him get to pakistan. unless you
think obama should start ANOTHER war, you go ahead and tell me how
obama should get him, OK?

and BOTH wars are going on because it would be criminal to abandon
iraq

At the time we were chasing Osama in Tora Bora we just had a small
contingent of CIA and special Ops people there calling in air strikes.
That was the way the plan was supposed to work. The special Ops people
were in trouble when the local war lords turned against them and there
is no guarantee 1000 or even 10,000 more troops hastily dropped in
there with no real plan, would have turned the tide up in those
mountains. It would have just sent a lot more American kids home in
body bags.

Your Iraq statement sounds like what Nixon said about Vietnam.
I suppose we could still be fighting that war too.

Well, you're certainly right, but the plan, devised by Rumsfeld et. al.,
overruled what the military recommended.

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 13:34:28 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 10:07:08 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

How is that going. The time last I looked BOTH wars are still going on
and Osama is no closer to being captured than he was on Sept 12 2001.

Yeah, thanks GWB for not capturing him when he had the chance. I guess
in
some people's mind 8 years = 16 months.

... or Clinton not taking him when Sudan offered him up to us.
(already suspected in the FIRST WTC bombing in 93)

Umm... that's rewriting history just a bit...

The government of Sudan, employing a back channel direct from its
president
to the CIA, offered in early spring 1996 to arrest Osama bin Laden and
place
him in Saudi custody, according to officials and former officials in all
three countries.

The Clinton administration struggled to find a way to accept the offer in
secret contacts that stretched from a meeting at an Arlington, Va., hotel
on
March 3, 1996, to a fax that closed the door on the effort 10 weeks later.
Unable to persuade the Saudis to accept Mr. bin Laden and lacking a case
to
indict him in U.S. courts at the time, the Clinton administration finally
gave up on the capture.

Clinton was actually trying to follow US law.


If they used the same level of proof they used on David Koresh they
could have just ambushed him and killed him for resisting arrest.
What you are really saying was the DoJ and CIA was so much asleep at
the switch that they couldn't build a case.

... or was it that they did not want to offend the Saudis?


Koresh was a maniac. He didn't deserve to die, but don't put him out to be
some kind of American hero standing up to Big Gov't.

I'm not saying anything. The fact is that no case could be made. Clinton
regretted, publically, his failure to do so.

Saudis? I believe bin laden was no longer a citizen at that point.

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 16:23:53 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

Obama shot his whole wad on this health care gift to the big medicine
lobby and let the rest of the country go to hell (or stay in hell if
that is what you think Bush was).

which was one HELLUVAN accomplishment. and the 'big medicine' lobby
is not too happy with obama

so either you're bull****ting or you're lying.


Let's see what the hall open season has to offer, then you decide how
great this "free" health care plan is working. The insurance company
is already hiking the rates for the families who want to take
advantage of the preexisting condition and those who want to put
their 20 somethings on the policy.
The big medicine people will do just fine. They are going to sell more
government paid for drugs and doctors/hospitals will get more
patients. I still have not seen anything to control the cost, They
just increased availability

There's no "free healthcare plan" as you well know. It's a capitalistic
system. Again, enough of the crazy misinformation.

If they're "hiking the rates," then it must not be free. You've got yours,
but you're unwilling to let anyone else in? That's what it sounds like.

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 13:37:25 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 10:04:34 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
m...
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 21:19:22 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
Those miles of boom in Maine supposedly failed inspection although
they meet ASTM standards and were considered "superior" by an
independent inspector. I suspect they failed cuz they were not made
from "free range nylon". Ya know, it's sorta like all those school
busses in katrina that couldn't be used for evac cuz they didn't
have
seat belts, all them peeps died courtesy of Mayor Nagin and Dem Gov
Blanco. Way to go Dems, Keel them poor people and drive em to ruin
to
put em on welfare.

Anyone want to tell Froggy who created the MMS? Under which president?
Anyone??


Who did absolutely zero to CHANGE it in the last 16 months? (hint: it
was Mr Change)
If it was so corrupt Obama should have fixed it BEFORE he started
proposing more offshore drilling. It is not a question of a long
process that wasn't finished. Fixing MMS had not even started so he
must have been happy with them.

That's not completely true Salazar was supposed to make some changes,
and
he
did, but I think it's reasonable to say that it takes a while to fix a
situation that's been going on for decades. I thought he was the wrong
choice to begin with. So, who created MMS under which president? Come
on.
You can say it.


"Creating" in Washington mostly means printing new signs for an old
building. The fact is all DC regulation is done by people who used to
work in that industry and they go back when they lose their government
job. It has been that way since George Washington, not just the recent
George.
I still say if you can't do ANYTHIING in 16 months, how much can we
expect in 8 years?
Obama shot his whole wad on this health care gift to the big medicine
lobby and let the rest of the country go to hell (or stay in hell if
that is what you think Bush was).
I guarantee, If you ask anyone on the Gulf Coast whether they would
rather have clean beaches and their fishing job back or all the
overpriced medical insurance they can't afford they would take the
clean beach.

Nope. At one point the agency was created by a former president. Guess
who?
Guess who administered it?? Come on, you can say his name.... Rrrrr....
Waaaa.... lol

Quick question, who regulated offshore drilling before MMS?
(hint, it was the same people, with a different sign on the building)

Obama let the economy go to hell????? That would be GWB over 8 years, and
perhaps going all the way back to Reagan.

No such "overpriced" medical insurance due to Obama. That's a result of
decades of neglect. It's now going to be changed. The change is happening,
even if you don't want to admit/see it.

When do you expect medical insurance to start getting cheaper?
Will I still be alive? Will you?


Hint: Mr. Reagan and James Watt started the agency. No body was "regulating"
the industry before or after (unfortunately).

I'm not going to quote the CBO again, since you'll just say you don't
believe them. I thought you said it was free anyway.

On 6/18/10 12:22 AM, nom=de=plume wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 16:23:53 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

Obama shot his whole wad on this health care gift to the big medicine
lobby and let the rest of the country go to hell (or stay in hell if
that is what you think Bush was).

which was one HELLUVAN accomplishment. and the 'big medicine' lobby
is not too happy with obama

so either you're bull****ting or you're lying.


Let's see what the hall open season has to offer, then you decide how
great this "free" health care plan is working. The insurance company
is already hiking the rates for the families who want to take
advantage of the preexisting condition and those who want to put
their 20 somethings on the policy.
The big medicine people will do just fine. They are going to sell more
government paid for drugs and doctors/hospitals will get more
patients. I still have not seen anything to control the cost, They
just increased availability

There's no "free healthcare plan" as you well know. It's a capitalistic
system. Again, enough of the crazy misinformation.

If they're "hiking the rates," then it must not be free. You've got
yours, but you're unwilling to let anyone else in? That's what it sounds
like.





The key to understanding gfretwell is to realize that no matter the
issue or politician, what he mostly sees is the downside or the moral
equivalence of everyone and everything. In his eyes, Jonas Salk and Dick
Cheney are no better than each other. :)

On 6/18/10 12:33 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 21:20:42 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

If they used the same level of proof they used on David Koresh they
could have just ambushed him and killed him for resisting arrest.
What you are really saying was the DoJ and CIA was so much asleep at
the switch that they couldn't build a case.

... or was it that they did not want to offend the Saudis?


Koresh was a maniac. He didn't deserve to die, but don't put him out to be
some kind of American hero standing up to Big Gov't.

Certainly he was a nut but the country is full of them.
Who was the biggest threat to America?


Dick Cheney, even though he wasn't veep then.

On 6/18/10 12:08 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 06:21:14 -0400,
wrote:

On 6/18/10 12:22 AM, nom=de=plume wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 16:23:53 -0400, wrote:

Obama shot his whole wad on this health care gift to the big medicine
lobby and let the rest of the country go to hell (or stay in hell if
that is what you think Bush was).

which was one HELLUVAN accomplishment. and the 'big medicine' lobby
is not too happy with obama

so either you're bull****ting or you're lying.


Let's see what the hall open season has to offer, then you decide how
great this "free" health care plan is working. The insurance company
is already hiking the rates for the families who want to take
advantage of the preexisting condition and those who want to put
their 20 somethings on the policy.
The big medicine people will do just fine. They are going to sell more
government paid for drugs and doctors/hospitals will get more
patients. I still have not seen anything to control the cost, They
just increased availability

There's no "free healthcare plan" as you well know. It's a capitalistic
system. Again, enough of the crazy misinformation.

If they're "hiking the rates," then it must not be free. You've got
yours, but you're unwilling to let anyone else in? That's what it sounds
like.





The key to understanding gfretwell is to realize that no matter the
issue or politician, what he mostly sees is the downside or the moral
equivalence of everyone and everything. In his eyes, Jonas Salk and Dick
Cheney are no better than each other. :)

My job was always "the fixer" so I look at things as what can go wrong
and what can you do about it.
In the case of Obamacare, the Senate bill was written be a couple
United Health Care lobbyists so "what could go wrong" is very easy to
predict


I don't buy your premise. I see the bill that passed as only a first
step. Further, the bill was all that could be passed.

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 21:20:42 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

If they used the same level of proof they used on David Koresh they
could have just ambushed him and killed him for resisting arrest.
What you are really saying was the DoJ and CIA was so much asleep at
the switch that they couldn't build a case.

... or was it that they did not want to offend the Saudis?


Koresh was a maniac. He didn't deserve to die, but don't put him out to be
some kind of American hero standing up to Big Gov't.

Certainly he was a nut but the country is full of them.
Who was the biggest threat to America?

The Republicans?

I'm not saying anything. The fact is that no case could be made. Clinton
regretted, publically, his failure to do so.

Saudis? I believe bin laden was no longer a citizen at that point.


The Bin Laden family was still a big player in Saudi Arabia and
Clinton was afraid to stir up anything that might have jiggled the
price of oil and crashed his rising economy.

They had disowned him, and even Bush was complicit in flying his family out
after 9/11...

In a more enlightened time we would have just had a foreign national,
working for the CIA, put a bullet in his ear.

Actually bin laden did get CIA (or other? US help) when fighting the
Soviets.

How many lives would that have saved? (Iraqi, Afghani and American)
200,000?

Total agreement there... but we really need to set a good example even if
it's not expedient.