On Tue, 1 Jun 2010 20:46:45 -0700, "Dutch" wrote:

"possum" wrote\

wait wait - is dhu goo, and goo really non-exists, or is goo
pretending to be dhu, and dhu really non- exists?

"Goo" (short for Goober)

Short for Goobernicus, but even that much honesty is shocking
to see you confess about your hero Goo.

is a name dh originally started calling Fred, but
it fits dh better so now they call each other the same name.

LOL!!! It shows desperation, the fact that having no
imagination Goo can't come up with anything on his own, and also
an extremely childlike nature on Goo's end. It also shows blatant
dishonesty which Goo is certainly known for.

(where non-existence = imaginary), or.... no, i can't think
of third option yet without clarification of 1 and 2....

or, clarification of what aras inherent objection to raising
livestock means for _existing_ animals (as in secondly goo
above)

possum

dh believes that AR opponents are missing out on the killer argument against
vegetarians, that eating meat results in livestock animals getting to
experience life,

That's an aspect which must necessarily be factored in in
order to get a realistic interpretation of the big picture.
Misnomer advocates are OPPOSED TO people developing a realistic
interpretation of the big picture, and ONLY want them to focus on
things that encourage acceptance of the elimination objective.

and eating vegetables doesn't,

· Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
What they try to avoid are products which provide life
(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
to avoid the following items containing animal by-products
in order to be successful:

tires, paper, upholstery, floor waxes, glass, water
filters, rubber, fertilizer, antifreeze, ceramics, insecticides,
insulation, linoleum, plastic, textiles, blood factors, collagen,
heparin, insulin, solvents, biodegradable detergents, herbicides,
gelatin capsules, adhesive tape, laminated wood products,
plywood, paneling, wallpaper and wallpaper paste, cellophane
wrap and tape, abrasives, steel ball bearings

The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
as animals do in other habitats. They also depend on it for
their lives as animals do in other habitats. If people consume
animal products from animals they think are raised in decent
ways, they will be promoting life for more such animals in the
future. People who want to contribute to decent lives for
livestock with their lifestyle must do it by being conscientious
consumers of animal products, because they can not do it by
being vegan.
From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·

in fact they are denying life to animals that *would exist*

"we need to consider group 1, those animals who WILL
exist under present rules" - "Dutch"

"Because future animals who will inevitably be born are
as important as ones which exist now. " - Dutch

if they would just eat meat.

"Every consumer choice promotes animals to experience
life." - Dutch

"The method of husbandry determines whether or not the life
has positive or negative value to the animal." - "Dutch"

One of his
favorite little gems is the notion that Animal Rights is a "misnomer"
because ARAs want there to be no more livestock.

"The vast majority of the financial support for PeTA comes
from people who do NOT subscribe to the complete elimination
of animal use." - "Dutch"

He's a real genius.

I point out things which are significant aspects of the
situation that you people are opposed to seeing pointed out, ONLY
because they work against the elimination objective.