On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 21:05:39 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"bpuharic" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 17:12:51 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:



nope the middle class hasnt had a pay increase in 10 y ears.

did they create jobs? nope. no jobs created in 10 years.

what did they do? well...in the last 10 years, the richest 1% have
seen their incomes triple.



Point out the good reasons why Obama spending excess amounts of money is
good.

he's spending the money to keep spending up in the absence of consumer
spending. as the rich raped the middle class like a bunch of catholic
priests at a boy's school, the MC lost the ability to keep its head
above water. so obama had to step in, stabilized the financial sector
and provide for 1.5M jobs.

all to correct 30 years of rabid right wing free market capitalism

Not some talking point that Bush killed a bunch of people, spent a
Trillion dollars. Explain it, or go get an education. Explain how we are
getting more jobs, when California and others reached record unemployment
this last quarter.

i'm a scientist. i go with evidence

the FACT is unemployment has dropped by 10% since obama took office.
teh FACT is we are no longer losing more jobs than we're creating. the
FACT is the economy is growing

those are FACTS. i dont care what rush tells you to believe.

Show how many foreclosed houses are in inventory, and
which areas are selling, and how much discount from the last sale. Stop
parroting Olberman, etc. He is probably more biased and not as smart as
Rush.

rush is a blow hard drug addict. and the people who believe him are
dumber than he is.

On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 20:24:00 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

On 23/04/2010 7:17 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 18:58:07 -0600,
wrote:

i hope so. it works in europe. we can learn something

you, however, can't

Ever wonder why so very few Europeans, Canadians and UK people own boats?

You are about to find out. Because lets for arguments sake say it is a
even 5%. I suspect they will do 6 or 7, but say 5%.

ever wonder why americans work 200 hours more than any of them? why we
dont have vacation? why we didn't have healthcare?


Your purchasing power just went down 5%. Takes $1.05 to buy $1.00 of stuff.

So 1/20th of your income is gone from your use. Litterally a first
class boat in a average working career. Even auto takes a hit, as you
have 5% less to spend on the auto. In the end, 5% less autos will be sold.

gee. my company gave no raises last year. probably none this year. the
rich did fine.


And your great grandchildren not yet born will curse your debt mongering
liberal ass all to hell.

and how would they feel if they were homeless and in the streets like
YOU advocate?

On 24/04/2010 4:38 AM, bpuharic wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 20:08:43 -0600,
wrote:

On 23/04/2010 7:15 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 18:54:00 -0600,
wrote:


Don't worry, they will tax the hell out of your grandchildren for the
retirement obligations, like they do in UK and Canada.

and if the middle class today was homeless, how would that work out
for their kids?

Might be better to say fewer middle class exist today. If you are
homeless and used to have one, then you dropped out of middle class.

ROFLMAO!!! so now he engages in wordplay...if you impoverish 25% of
americans...throw them and their kids in the street we have no problem
because they're no longer middle class

HAHAHAHAAHAHAH!!!


and, yes, this involves the rich. the right, however, just ignores
that and blames it all on the middle class

You just like blaming others. The rich didn't make the stupid take out
loans they could not afford

the rich created 62 TRILLION DOLLARS in collateralized debt
oblgiations they KNEW were toxic and sold them to each other...THEN
when the bill came due they ran to the middle class and told US to pay
the bill

but you? they're rich so it's OUR FAULT

typical right wing HATRED of the middle class.


As China grows, the US will shrink economicially, that is in fact what
we are seeing. I figure it will be less than 10 years and the Chinese
economy will be larger, and could happen sooner.

for 1000 years china's econmy was the largest in the world. it would
be unusal if they didn't regain that position, with 1.5 Billion
people...5X what we have

Yep. But will make many Americans like you sour as your wealth diminishes.

you're an economic cripple. if productivity increases we can ALL grow
in income. if we have responsible economic polices, instead of giving
ALL our money to the rich we can ALL have a better life

but you? you want 25% unemployment. toss the middle class into the
street AFTER they pay the bills of the rich

because the rich are gods.


Bankruptcy laws shoudl be tight. Letting liberals easily welsh and
create defunct uncontrolled debt is what got us into this depression.

?? first you say congress decided debt was good then when it's
pointed out this is wrong you say congress was good for tightenin
rules....

do you read what you write?

I have always said congress controls the money supply. President does
not operate in a vaccum here.

actually the fed controls the money supply. that's it's job

you're an economic cripple


once again the right wing wants to blame the middle class

They voted for cheap easy liberal debt and sold America cheap

well, no they didn't. they didnt vote for CDO's of 62 TRILLION
dollars. they didnt vote for economic collapse.

once again teh right blames the middle class instead of wall street.

Yes they did. Their representatives tehy sent to DC did just that.

well no. since the right preached the religion of unregulated
capitalism, the rich folks, after they PAID for the politicians to
deregulate them, took advantage of the situation

you keep ignoring 62 TRILLION in CDO's. you just ignore that. why?
because the RICH did that. but the middle class, you say, is to blame
for EVERYTHING.

Most people pre-depression were middle class. Not sure what the current
numbers are, but bet the majority still is.

that's correct because obama's spending stabilized the economy.

you're an economic cripple


and in 2003 congress and the white house were controlled by the
conservative free market fanatics

how's that work out?

It started with the peanut farmer Carter and later Clinton that didn't
want a repeat of 1981 interest rates. Cheap easy debt.

and deregulatd financial markets. 30 y ears of right wing free market
religoius dogma


and reagan didnt face the prospect of economic collapse. you simply
are unaware of current economic issues.

Yes he did. But he stopped it from going into a depression by leaving
more money in working taxpayers wallets. It worked too as it addressed
the issue head on.

actually he didn't. he turned economic policy over to paul
volker...the guy who obama uses today...and volker stalibilzed the
economy

reagan left money in the wallets of the rich. he broke labor unions,
and gutted worker protection. he did NOTHING for the middle class.



well no. sometimes debt is needed. ever hear of ww2?

you're an economic cripple

Tell that to my accountant. He say I should retire but I don't think I
am old enough.

ROFLMAO!!! what does this have to do with debt??

you're an economic cripple.


Think since 2007 and the end of 2010 the US national debt will go from
$9 to 14.5 trillion. $5.5 trillion increase in just 3 years. And no
abatement in sight because Obama and democriters haven't done **** to
stop it.

which is lower, as a % of our GDP, than we faced in ww2.

Going to issue war bonds now? LOL. The current debt is ponzi debt, US
government lending to itself on the currency account. Inflationary.
Can't last, something is going to give.


tell it to roosevelt.


Debt to GDP maters little, it is your ability to pay the debt.

ability to pay debt? measured by GDP

you're an economic cripple

And
right now the USA has no functional ability to pay its debt as it is in
big time structural deficit

sure it does. once people go back to work we can pay down debt

you? you'd toss 25% of people into the streets to protect the rich.

Nope, I didn't. They did it to themselves. I didn't force them to ride
the debt to a point they could not afford what they did.

you're an economic crippse.

I would put you in touch with my tax accountant but I don't think 1) you
could afford him and 2) you don't need one.

yeah. i, like 100,000,000 others in my position, got raped by the rich

Ah, so the truth sneaks out. Loose your home to debt? Get a car
repo'ed? Didn't pay your bills? Got the axe at work? Divorced over money?

No need to be embarased, many a people did and most of the rest are
struggling. The liberalism debt trap. Where you don't *conserve cash
in good times* for the bad times. And debt is viewed as a right not a
tool. The old conservative money management philosophy, never live on
debt beyond your means, maintain a positive cash flow with low debt
means nothing to many.

Hey, Obama only bails out his insider buddies, not even Obama has enough
money to bail out every dysfunctional debtors in the land. Not any
different with Canadian politicians either.

And everyone elses fault but yours.

Funny how many today we are getting the same leasons as people did in
1929-1939. History repeats. Liberalized banking in 1914 gets 1929.
Liberalized banking by Carter and Clinton gets us 2008-20xx.

--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.

On 23/04/2010 11:41 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 23/04/2010 6:28 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 17:12:51 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:



Nom=de=Plume


We were overspending voraciously before Obama got in. And he has kicked
up
the spending 2-3x.

for good economic reasons as opposed to bush who just killed 4400 US
troops and spent money on tax cuts for the rich

how did the rich use their money? did they give wage increases to the
middle class?

nope the middle class hasnt had a pay increase in 10 y ears.

did they create jobs? nope. no jobs created in 10 years.

what did they do? well...in the last 10 years, the richest 1% have
seen their incomes triple.

They are forecasting trillion dollar deficits for the
next 10 years/ How is this all Bush II's fault?

yeah it is. we have to spend what's needed to get out of the free
market hole we've dug ourselves into.


How about cutting spending
to GM.

peanuts

Actually, I agree. GM is peanuts really. What is $200 billion in defunct
debt and bailouts to $14.5 trillion anyways?

At some point government is going to have to downsize to at least 1/2 of
what it is today, maybe less. Even if they pull off hyper-stagflation,
without the middle class incomes following or exceeding the inflation,
recovery of the debt spiral is not possible. In fact, it will get worse
as governemnt costs go up but the revenue does not. Real bad situation to
be in.

Sort of like a car heading to a brick wall at 150mph.

The USA isn't that far from Greece as you might think. For example, Japan
is much worse and their economy is failing too. When their debt defaults,
they might want some of the money they lent to the USA. And sovern debt
unwinds. Going to collapse liek a house of cards.

Wish our local banks offer Yuan accounts.
--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.


Fortunately, you're not part of our society.

Yep.

--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.

On 24/04/2010 4:39 AM, bpuharic wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 20:17:14 -0600,
wrote:

On 23/04/2010 6:28 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 17:12:51 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:




what did they do? well...in the last 10 years, the richest 1% have
seen their incomes triple.

They are forecasting trillion dollar deficits for the
next 10 years/ How is this all Bush II's fault?

yeah it is. we have to spend what's needed to get out of the free
market hole we've dug ourselves into.


How about cutting spending
to GM.

peanuts

Actually, I agree. GM is peanuts really. What is $200 billion in
defunct debt and bailouts to $14.5 trillion anyways?

At some point government is going to have to downsize to at least 1/2 of
what it is today, maybe less. Even if they pull off hyper-stagflation,
without the middle class incomes following or exceeding the inflation,
recovery of the debt spiral is not possible. In fact, it will get worse
as governemnt costs go up but the revenue does not. Real bad situation
to be in.

gee. we managed it in ww2. your complaint is that the middle class
isnt suffering enough. you're happy with the fact the rich are rich.
you just h ate the middle class

Money is attracted to those that know how to management money. It isn't
attracted to those that money managements them.

--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.

On 24/04/2010 4:43 AM, bpuharic wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 21:05:39 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 17:12:51 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:



nope the middle class hasnt had a pay increase in 10 y ears.

did they create jobs? nope. no jobs created in 10 years.

what did they do? well...in the last 10 years, the richest 1% have
seen their incomes triple.



Point out the good reasons why Obama spending excess amounts of money is
good.

he's spending the money to keep spending up in the absence of consumer
spending. as the rich raped the middle class like a bunch of catholic
priests at a boy's school, the MC lost the ability to keep its head
above water. so obama had to step in, stabilized the financial sector
and provide for 1.5M jobs.

He is borrowing money to spend and people are seeing very little of it.
Most is going to corrupt businesses and banks.

But if he took less of peoples money and left it with the earners, they
would have more to spend. But now threatened with tax increases, lower
wages, more debt the consumer still can't spend more of what they don't
have. But you have more debt.

Banks? Why not let them fail and just bailout the insured accounts?
Because that is all that was needed. Yet they bailed out the bank
because the super rich had far more on deposit than the insured amounts.
So Bush and Obama sold out middle class. And you vote Obama...what a
sucker.

all to correct 30 years of rabid right wing free market capitalism

Funny, you should then go to Cuba or Venezuela where capitalism is
actively discouraged.

Not some talking point that Bush killed a bunch of people, spent a
Trillion dollars. Explain it, or go get an education. Explain how we are
getting more jobs, when California and others reached record unemployment
this last quarter.

i'm a scientist. i go with evidence

Probably not a good one, your rationality sucks.

the FACT is unemployment has dropped by 10% since obama took office.
teh FACT is we are no longer losing more jobs than we're creating. the
FACT is the economy is growing

those are FACTS. i dont care what rush tells you to believe.

Yep, people dropping out of the workforce isn't a number Obama should be
proud of. People unemployed over 6 months and not in unemployment is at
a record high for this depression.

Show how many foreclosed houses are in inventory, and
which areas are selling, and how much discount from the last sale. Stop
parroting Olberman, etc. He is probably more biased and not as smart as
Rush.

rush is a blow hard drug addict. and the people who believe him are
dumber than he is.

Can't say I have listened to Rush much but from what I hear he has a
head on his shoulders and worth the listen.

--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.

On 23/04/2010 11:40 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
"Bill wrote in message
m...

wrote in message
...
"Bill wrote in message
m...

wrote in message
m...
On 4/23/10 11:26 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 23/04/2010 8:29 AM, hk wrote:
On 4/23/10 10:21 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 23/04/2010 7:48 AM, hk wrote:
On 4/23/10 9:42 AM, Canuck57 wrote:

Now if you lose 5% or 7% purchasing power over a working career, I
doubt
anyone would argue that it would buy a boat... right?

After all given Democat/Obama debt-spending is at record levels,
bailing
out the inept, lazy, corrupt comes at a cost right?

http://congress.blogs.foxnews.com/20...-tax-increase/





The big reason greedy big fat government likes VAT is simple, it
gets
everyone. Shares the pain. Instead of punitive taxes on the 30%
(or
less) of those that work in non-governmetn jobs and pay any
signifigant
amout of taxes, it isn't limited to the 30%. It gets 100% of us.



Us? Why would you be subject to such a tax, *if* it were imposed in
the
USA? You're a Canadian, living in Canada.

Oh...and you're quoting from Faux News, the home of tea partying
teabaggers...the bull**** news network.

What? You don't believe big mouth debt spender Obama doesn't want a
huge
increase in revenue from the sheeples?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100421/...e/us_obama_tax


First, I asked why you used "us," since "us," as you used it,
wouldn't
apply to Canadians living in Canada. You're not one of us, as it
were.

Second, there's no need to even consider what you think are your
points
when you use terms like "big mouth debt spender Obama." Obama is
extricating this country from a terrific mess left him by his
predecessor. It looks like what he has done so far is beginning to
work.
The opposing party had no logical plan for bringing us out of Bush
recession.

Well, Obama talks a lot, big mouth.

Running into the second year of record debt spending makes Obama a
debt
monger.

US government is hungry for your money, you are right, I will not have
to pay much of the US VAT. But I used to like going to Montana
shopping,
guess I had better go early this year as to avoid the US VAT.

Anyone who thought Obamanomics in and Obamanation is about to find out
that Obama isn't free, he is quite taxing.


I never thought repairing the damage caused by eight years of Bush and
Cheney would be free, and I thought our taxes would go up in order to
help pull this country out of the Bush-Cheney deep, dark hole. My wife
and I expect to be paying more in taxes next year, in one form or
another.

If you want to live in fear of a VAT that may be imposted in the
future, you go right ahead. It'll just be another entry on the stupid
decisions you've made in live.


If he wants to correct the Bush overspending, seems an odd way to do the
job. Should be cutting spending by the Fed's. Lots of Bush's problem
is he vetoed maybe 2 spending bills in the 8 years. And Bush
overspending in his 8 years is probably the major screwup. Even more
than opening up a 2nd front in the war.



Cutting what spending by the Fed? Specifically what? Oh wait, let me
guess... programs that help the poor and the middle class.

Nice slam on Bush though...

--
Nom=de=Plume


We were overspending voraciously before Obama got in. And he has kicked
up the spending 2-3x. They are forecasting trillion dollar deficits for
the next 10 years/ How is this all Bush II's fault? How about cutting
spending to GM. They just paid back a 5 billion buck loan with interest.
Where did the pay back money come from? Serious question! It came from
TARP money. So paying back a loan with another loan. We the people own
60% of new GM. The present people in power say we will get all our money
back when GM goes public again. That would take a capitalization of $50
billion dollars. GM stock was never worth that much when they were
successful. And 80% would still not return the $80 billion or so we took
off the GM books. Cut Goldman Sachs 150% Let them fold. Demand back
every bit of money we lent them. If they can pay $6+ billion in bonus
money with our taxpayer paid funds, we can demand back all the money and a
penalty for screwing us. Stop spending a couple million here, a couple
million there on some of the asinine research the government is funding
these days. We can not afford some of these items. Why are we funding
the arts through the Federal government? KILL the NEA! Is not a Federal
government function. Lot of cutting with out cutting vital programs to
the poor. Cut back on the Education Bureau. Was not even a federal
deptpartment until 1974. Now it controls most money for education in the
USA. And only charges a 20-25% handling fee for sending the money back to
the states with strings attached. Where would you and your clone HK cut
the overspending? Even you must have some tolerable ideas about reducing
government costs. Cut unemployment extensions. Save money and give
incentives to work.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...952375172.html



You're really looney. We the people are on track to make a profit from the
GM ownership. That must be a bummer for you.

Wiping out $177 billion in capital, and losing $4.8 billion or so
recently, you call that progress?

Let Goldman fold, but don't break up big banks. Throw millions more out of
work. Sounds like your typical right-wing bs to me.

Good part about Goldman is this is a PR pony show for your appeasement.
Obama can't take Goldman down for some big reasons. First is Goldman
did what the governemnt wanted in this corruption and has the real
inside on Obamanomics corruption. If Obama squeezes too hard, Goldman
goes public. Second reason is Goldman, like Carlyle and Cerberus are
lined with rich that would turn on Obama.

So what does Obama do? Shoot the mouth off, make good PR he is control
while all along some small piddly fine will be sent to Goldman to look good.

Forget the arts, forget education. If you can't afford to go to school, too
bad. Forget unemployment insurance... those people don't have to eat.

Let's start with PayGo. Oh wait, the Republicans aren't interested.

In the end, it will be pay as you go. With or without Rep/Dem

--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.

On 24/04/2010 4:45 AM, bpuharic wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 20:24:00 -0600,
wrote:

On 23/04/2010 7:17 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 18:58:07 -0600,
wrote:

i hope so. it works in europe. we can learn something

you, however, can't

Ever wonder why so very few Europeans, Canadians and UK people own boats?

You are about to find out. Because lets for arguments sake say it is a
even 5%. I suspect they will do 6 or 7, but say 5%.

ever wonder why americans work 200 hours more than any of them? why we
dont have vacation? why we didn't have healthcare?

Funny. When I was in the UK I said lets go London for the weekend (from
Aberdeen) and the parents of the lady I was a courting on this dropped
their jaws. That was a major vacation to them and a weekend jaunt for me.

Depends on the life you want, at least in America you have a choice.
They don't.

Yes, I lived there too for awhile. I worked side by side with their
people. Did Stavanger Norway too. What an eye opener.

Your purchasing power just went down 5%. Takes $1.05 to buy $1.00 of stuff.

So 1/20th of your income is gone from your use. Litterally a first
class boat in a average working career. Even auto takes a hit, as you
have 5% less to spend on the auto. In the end, 5% less autos will be sold.

gee. my company gave no raises last year. probably none this year. the
rich did fine.

Will not be any for years to come, Obama is going to raise their taxes
and it will indirectly come from your wages. Tax the company more and
they will pay less. It is all interdependant. Want higher wages there
are only two ways. Get a skill that has elasticity in wages or get a
good economy that needs people. All people thrive best when
unemployment is so low employers have to treat employees right.

And your great grandchildren not yet born will curse your debt mongering
liberal ass all to hell.

and how would they feel if they were homeless and in the streets like
YOU advocate?

They might be, but hopefully some old values of depending on ones self
and fiscal conservatism will preval to prevent that.


--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.

On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 07:38:36 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

On 24/04/2010 4:39 AM, bpuharic wrote:


Actually, I agree. GM is peanuts really. What is $200 billion in
defunct debt and bailouts to $14.5 trillion anyways?

At some point government is going to have to downsize to at least 1/2 of
what it is today, maybe less. Even if they pull off hyper-stagflation,
without the middle class incomes following or exceeding the inflation,
recovery of the debt spiral is not possible. In fact, it will get worse
as governemnt costs go up but the revenue does not. Real bad situation
to be in.

gee. we managed it in ww2. your complaint is that the middle class
isnt suffering enough. you're happy with the fact the rich are rich.
you just h ate the middle class

Money is attracted to those that know how to management money. =

more right wing fairy tale bull****. you really believe this stuff,
dont you?

On 23/04/2010 11:44 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 18:58:07 -0600,
wrote:

On 23/04/2010 6:09 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 17:06:32 -0600,
wrote:
Think what you want. I turned on Bsh when he started the bailout
corruption. I actually had hopes that Obama would stop it. But looks
like Obama is just a bull****er.

no you didn't. you're unable to fathom the CAUSE of the situation
we're in. you think obama's been presdient for 9 years. so you blame
it ALL on him instead of your lord god, the rich white boy

Just learn what VAT means. It is coming.

i hope so. it works in europe. we can learn something

you, however, can't


It would work here, but it would have to be implemented very slowly,
otherwise the disruption would be catastrophic to the economy.

At the rate DC is doing debt, it will be abrupt. You are just sore as
you now see it is coming around your way. Did you really think
debt-spend bailouts and big governemtn out of control spending was free?

--
Socialism and statism are great as long as someone else pays for it.