OT What is "middle class"
 

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 23:08:04 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 22:26:00 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 18:09:57 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

it's obvious you're wrong

as to HR 5660...show me where SENATOR gramm voted on it, OK?

Then how was it all his fault?

You keep trying to have it both ways.

If you are really saying Gramm was capable of single handedly tricking
292 house reps, 99 senators and Bill Clinton then we deserve what we
got. They were all too stupid to have their jobs.

it happens. it j ust did. i gave you the reference. no one's going to
read a 262 page addendum to an 11,000 page bill on 12/15.

What you didn't explain and even said could not happen was how he
managed to get his 282 page addendum (AKA H.R 5660) introduced through
the house. He even managed to forge 5 representative's names on that
bill.
Very clever.
BTW to reinforce your side you really should go read Mr Ewing's
"extension of remarks" when he introduced this bill but you refuse to
admit Ewing was involved at all.

It ends
"Senator LUGAR and Senator GRAMM have worked tirelessly in the
Senate, with the House, and with the Administration to make this bill
possible."

There is your cookie.

Somebody must have been cutting US Government class, for the whole year.

OT What is "middle class"
 

On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 10:28:04 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 06:00:02 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

gramm's addendum...which you refuse to admit existed...was introduced
right before the bill was voted on, on 12/15.


They voted on a conference report not "a bill" but I assume that is
too confusing for you.
Gramm was not even on the conference committee that created the
conference report but I will agree he was prodding them along.
The companion bill to the house bill I referenced was submitted by
Lugar in the senate but it was word for word identical to H.,R.5660.
They were incorporated into the conference report by reference and
that is what BOTH houses voted on.
That is how it works.
You heard something on Olbermann and you are just not going to let it
go no matter what is recorded in the Library of Congress..

I won't let facts get in the way of a good rant so carry on ...
without me


facts, eh? well let's look at the facts shall we? unfortunately
wikipedia doesnt work for olberman so we'll just have to go with the
truth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodi...on_Act_of_2000

When Congress returned into session for two days in mid-November, the
sponsor of H.R. 4541, Representative Thomas Ewing (R-IL), described
Senator Gramm as the “one man” blocking Senate passage of H.R.
4541.[60] Senator Richard G. Lugar (R-IN), the sponsor of S. 2697, was
reported to be considering forcing H.R. 4541 to the Senate Floor
against Senator Gramm’s objections

The “compromise language” was introduced in the House on December 14,
2000, as H.R. 5660.

-----------

for more analysis check:

http://motherjones.com/politics/2008...rn-speculators

But thanks to Phil "nation of whiners" Gramm—the former Texas senator
who was until recently John McCain's top economic adviser (see
"Foreclosure Phil")—futures market regulation went to hell. Under the
"Enron loophole" pushed through by Gramm in 2000, energy futures were
allowed to escape all federal and state regulation. Gramm embedded
that loophole in a surprise 262-page rider, drafted at the behest of
Wall Street and Enron, in an 11,000-page appropriations bill on a
Friday evening two days after the Supreme Court handed down its Bush
v. Gore ruling and as Congress was rushing home for Christmas.


and:

http://www.texasobserver.org/archive...and-rick-perry

In the early evening of Friday, December 15, 2000, with Christmas
break only hours away, the U.S. Senate rushed to pass an essential,
11,000-page government reauthorization bill. In what one legal
textbook would later call “a stunning departure from normal
legislative practice,� the Senate tacked on a complex, 262-page
amendment at the urging of Texas Sen. Phil Gramm.

There was little debate on the floor. According to the Congressional
Record, Gramm promised that the amendment—also known as the
Commodity Futures Modernization Act—along with other landmark
legislation he had authored, would usher in a new era for the U.S.
financial services industry.

When his new party won control of the Senate, Gramm rose to chairman
of the Senate Banking Committee, where he was able to put his
anti-regulation views into law. The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999
repealed laws put in place after the Great Depression setting up
protective barriers between commercial banks, investment banking
firms, and insurance companies.

Banks had been chipping away at the barriers through Federal Reserve
rules for decades. But Gramm's sweeping deregulation stripped away
restraint, says Broome.

OT What is "middle class"
 

On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 22:17:46 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 18:44:54 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 18:08:27 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 18:55:29 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

The “compromise language” was introduced in the House on December 14,
2000, as H.R. 5660.


Now isn't that exactly what I have been saying for two weeks?
Notice it is "HR" That means House of Representatives.

and isn't that what i've been saying for 2 weeks? he introduced it as
the senators had their hats on and were walking out the door?

So you are saying the Wikipedia article you referenced is wrong. Why
did you cite it?

i didn't say it was wrong. you cant read. what i said was that gramm
introduced a 262 page bill at the last minute, under threat of
filibuster, to an 11,000 page omnibus funding bill. no one read his
bill and he was able to do for wall street what the GOP is doing
today...

make it possible for the rich to transfer risk to taxpayers and keep
wealth for themselves

The idea that nobody knew what he was up to is contradicted with your
assertion that he threatened to filibuster if he didn't get it.

well no. all that he had to do was threaten to filibuster if any
oppostion or questioning was raised at all.


A agree Gramm was the driving force in this but it was far from a
secret.

you still havent accounted for the fact the 11,000 page bill was
ammended on12/15 at the last moment.


gee. wonder why he did that? perhaps because he didn't want anyone to
read his thievery and wall street oriented greed was now becoming law?

OT What is "middle class"
 

On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 08:02:33 -0400, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 23:08:04 -0400, bpuharic wrote:


What you didn't explain and even said could not happen was how he
managed to get his 282 page addendum (AKA H.R 5660) introduced through
the house. He even managed to forge 5 representative's names on that
bill.
Very clever.
BTW to reinforce your side you really should go read Mr Ewing's
"extension of remarks" when he introduced this bill but you refuse to
admit Ewing was involved at all.

It ends
"Senator LUGAR and Senator GRAMM have worked tirelessly in the
Senate, with the House, and with the Administration to make this bill
possible."

There is your cookie.

Somebody must have been cutting US Government class, for the whole year.

especially the part about introducing a bill at the very last moment
to an 11,000 page bill.

nice little bit of paliamentary sleight of hand

OT What is "middle class"
 

On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 23:50:53 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 22:24:18 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

you still havent accounted for the fact the 11,000 page bill was
ammended on12/15 at the last moment.

You haven't admitted that this was in the committee for months

which means precisely zip. how many committees are there? the fact, as
i proved recently, is that congress often doesnt read large complex
bills. and just because a bill was 'in committee' means absolutely
nothing.

and one
of the things they were arguing about was this particular
deregulation. What happened on Dec 14 was they reached a compromise
that everyone would agree to ..

well, no. with 11,000 pages and then a last minute addendum, just as
in health care, it's no surprise gramm took advantage of the situation
to slip in the wall street thieve's protection act...he and his wife
being the primary thieves and beneficiaries

.. except 51 republicans and 9 democrats
in the house. The bill that came in on Dec 14th only had a few
sentences different than HR 4151, not the whole 2xx pages.
You can go look them up and compare that particular article line by
line.

ROFLMAO!! so congress voted on an 11,000 page bill. and to you that
means gramm had nothing to do with the 262 page addendum put in at the
last minute

hell, thieves can alwasy rely on folks like you to defend them

OT What is "middle class"
 

"bpuharic" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 23:50:53 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 22:24:18 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

you still havent accounted for the fact the 11,000 page bill was
ammended on12/15 at the last moment.

You haven't admitted that this was in the committee for months

which means precisely zip. how many committees are there? the fact, as
i proved recently, is that congress often doesnt read large complex
bills. and just because a bill was 'in committee' means absolutely
nothing.

and one
of the things they were arguing about was this particular
deregulation. What happened on Dec 14 was they reached a compromise
that everyone would agree to ..

well, no. with 11,000 pages and then a last minute addendum, just as
in health care, it's no surprise gramm took advantage of the situation
to slip in the wall street thieve's protection act...he and his wife
being the primary thieves and beneficiaries

. except 51 republicans and 9 democrats
in the house. The bill that came in on Dec 14th only had a few
sentences different than HR 4151, not the whole 2xx pages.
You can go look them up and compare that particular article line by
line.

ROFLMAO!! so congress voted on an 11,000 page bill. and to you that
means gramm had nothing to do with the 262 page addendum put in at the
last minute

hell, thieves can alwasy rely on folks like you to defend them


If Congress is not reading and understanding the bills, we should vote them
out of office and put in a group who will introduce less and smaller bills
that can be read and understood.

OT What is "middle class"
 

On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 23:50:53 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 22:24:18 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

you still havent accounted for the fact the 11,000 page bill was
ammended on12/15 at the last moment.

You haven't admitted that this was in the committee for months and one
of the things they were arguing about was this particular
deregulation. What happened on Dec 14 was they reached a compromise
that everyone would agree to ... except 51 republicans and 9 democrats
in the house. The bill that came in on Dec 14th only had a few
sentences different than HR 4151, not the whole 2xx pages.
You can go look them up and compare that particular article line by
line.

gee. we had 11,000 pages of legislation. and it's your argument that
51 republicans opposed gramm's 262 page giveaway to the banks.

sigh...if only there were proof...

OT What is "middle class"
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 08:44:21 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:

If Congress is not reading and understanding the bills, we should vote
them
out of office and put in a group who will introduce less and smaller bills
that can be read and understood.

The real answer is the line item veto but congress will never let that
happen. They hide too much pork in "must pass" bills to allow that.
There is a senate rule that says they can't put legislation, like this
deregulation, on an appropriations bill but they found a huge loophole
in that.


Senate rule XVI
2. The Committee on Appropriations shall not report an appropriation
bill containing amendments to such bill proposing new or general
legislation ...

I think that rule was suspended or vacated as part of the Nixon leaving
without Impeachment stuff.