OT What is "middle class"
 

On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 20:19:35 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 18:33:47 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 18:13:01 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 14:45:01 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

right wingers blew out the US economy. alan greenspan...disciple of
ayn rand...george bush.

With plenty of help from "the left"

really? the left was part of the chicago school?

gee. that's gonna come as news to everyone.


neither was liberal

Nor was Clinton, Greenspan worked for him, what's your point?

and clinton's govt was run by a conservative congress which ran
rampant with chicago school philosophy

you DO know about the chicago school, right?

I basically agree with you but the same voodoo economics model that HW
Bush criticized in 1984 was the way they ALL did business since.
My only complaint is you keep saying this was just a right wing plot.

the left was never a big fan of the chicago school.
stiglitz..krugman..both nobel prize winners...didn't give it much
credence

Both sides embraced it for 25 years until the whole thing collapsed in
on itself.

yep. the free market fundamentalist theology grabbed both the middle
and the right which ran this country since reagan.

I have posted the vote several times here but the deregulation bill HR
5477 most responsible for this disaster was opposed by 51 conservative
republicans and 9 democrats.

and it was passed only after phil gramm threatened to filibuster it
after he added his 262 page deregulation of CDO's which caused the
meltdown.

OT What is "middle class"
 

On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 18:31:31 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:



But it made debt cheaper to appease debtors including the congress.
Didn't mater the massive ensuing debt (personal, private and public)
would someday become a huge issue.

uh, no. what it did do was taken the cuffs off the super rich to allow
them to steal even more than they had, under the guise of the 'free
market'.

Well the day has arrived and Obama is going to solve a debt problem with
more debt. Forgive my contempt to Obama, he is an idiot if he thinks he
can spend america out of debt.

except, of course, the economy is growing...fast. both larry kudlow
and 'business week' have articles supporting this. so it seems you CAN
spend your way out of debt.

the right wing simply has no idea about how economics works

notice the right wing bitcher has no solution to the mess the right
created?

OT What is "middle class"
 

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
On 10/04/2010 3:47 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 10/04/2010 1:54 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 10/04/2010 1:11 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 10/04/2010 11:10 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 09:42:51 -0600,
wrote:

On 09/04/2010 11:33 PM, wrote:

Is that $125k plus as some here say or is it less?

Depends on how you manage money. I have seen people live middle
class
at $50k and others broke at $125K.

There is more to being middle class than what you make. It is
also
about attitude and self dicipline.

I agree with that. The most "broke" people I know make over $100k
but
they spend borrowed money like they make a million.

Yep. My little sister is like that. When life was good with two
good
jobs they leveraged up to the 9's. We told them, now is the time to
solidify that wealth and pay off debt, not create more of it.

Now getting close to 50, and a huge mortgage on a dump when the last
recession hit. Set her back 30 years financially. But it is all
our
fault. Typical liberal screwup will be working for a long time yet.

--
Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money.


No. It's her fault. But, feel free to blame the gov't (or liberals or
the
Ghost of Christmas Past). The bottom line is that she screwed up. It
happens.

She blames me because I didn't screw up like she did! Stupid POS.
And
she blames C/conservatives as they should bail her out.

It happens a lot.

Raising kids liberally for example, they learn little of conservative
dicipline. Then when 25 or so, one loser job after anotehr they fail
to
cope and do suicide.

This depression goes far beyond just the mechanics of government tax,
banking and corruption bailouts, the liberalism has become a disease
that
is hurting people big time.

As when uncle Obama runs out of cash or hasn't gotten around to you,
you
will be one disappointed liberal loser. A conservative self starter
has
a
huge advantage over a entitlist liberal at the moment, but the liberal
wants to steal it.

--
Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money.


Maybe it is your fault. You're the older brother. Keep on ranting about
Obama. I'm sure someone inside your empty head cares.

It was years ago now since I saw the little slug. Had her over for
dinner
with our mother, and after dinner I snapped when she grabbed our limited
income 75 year old mothers purse to pilfer money.

I simply said "Mom, I am sorry, I can't watch this any longer. J-------
please get the frac out of this house you Liberal touting blood sucking
immoral POS. Mom shouldn't have to put up with purse raiding and your
blood sucking 'poor me' screw up attitude any longer".

She went off in a fluff, haven't seen her since which suits me fine.

So I guess so. I wasn't will to be abused by a freeloader, and didn't
like the idea of her freeloading on her elderly Mom.

But not my fault. I can't control her, for if I owned her as a slave, I
would ahve it beaten right out of her hide.

--
Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money.


Wow... you come from quite a family. I feel bad for you now.

Don't. I rose above it. You are your own limitation to life. You don't
know the 1/4 of it, I could write a book on it.

--
Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money.


I'm sorry, but I don't see it. What I do see is a paranoid, fearful guy, who
doesn't like anyone who's even slightly different.

--
Nom=de=Plume

OT What is "middle class"
 

On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 23:28:18 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 20:35:04 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

I have posted the vote several times here but the deregulation bill HR
5477 most responsible for this disaster was opposed by 51 conservative
republicans and 9 democrats.

and it was passed only after phil gramm threatened to filibuster it
after he added his 262 page deregulation of CDO's which caused the
meltdown.

That does not explain 100 senators voting FOR it.

sure it does. it was passed on 12/15 late in the evening. a 262 page
addendum to an 11,000 page bill was not going to attract attention, as
gramm calculated.

The language was not Gramms either. It came from a house bill H.R.5660
that was cosponsored by New York rep John LaFalce.

newsflash:

gramm was a senator. representatives dont get a vote in the senate.

OT What is "middle class"
 

On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 23:07:06 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 18:49:10 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

That does not explain 100 senators voting FOR it.

sure it does. it was passed on 12/15 late in the evening. a 262 page
addendum to an 11,000 page bill was not going to attract attention, as
gramm calculated.

Bull****, Why don't you go see the debate about adding that amendment.
In fact you said he threatened a filibuster, you can't have it both
ways. I think you are just quoting someone you heard on Olbermann.
This is a public record.

ROFLMAO!! how many people do you have to convince regarding a
filibuster? 1? 2? not many..


The language was not Gramms either. It came from a house bill H.R.5660
that was cosponsored by New York rep John LaFalce.

newsflash:

gramm was a senator. representatives dont get a vote in the senate.

Flash right back at you, this was a house bill that was amended to the
house bill HR4577 that was passed by the senate.

irrelevant. you said it was language in the house. the house does not
vote in the senate. house language is irrelevant

OT What is "middle class"
 

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 00:06:48 -0400, wrote:



I said it was language from the HOUSE BILL. (5660) and that was
amended to another HOUSE BILL (4577) in the senate.
The senate did not write ANY of this bill the house did.
They just passed it with unanimous consent (voice vote).
Check it out.

gee. the senate and house tried to pass healthcare this year. how'd
that work out? it took ALOT of finagling...but gramm slid his
distortion of the free market in under the radar, a fact you refuse to
even admit

It would really be a lot better if you just learned your way around
Thomas so you could do it yourself instead of just quoting liberal
magazines and articles you find on a google search.

i suggest you learn some history instead of relying on limballs to do
your homework for you

OT What is "middle class"
 

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 01:10:22 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 00:24:37 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

gee. the senate and house tried to pass healthcare this year. how'd
that work out? it took ALOT of finagling...but gramm slid his
distortion of the free market in under the radar, a fact you refuse to
even admit


Because it is total bull****., I did just look it up. I was wrong, the
actual house bill that was included in HR 4577 was HR4541 and the
white house came out in favor of it on October 19.

and yet gramm sneaked his thieve's full employment act into the bill
on december 15...2 months after the white house came out in support of
it.


.

OT What is "middle class"
 

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 01:15:12 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 00:24:37 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

i suggest you learn some history instead of relying on limballs to do
your homework for you


This is history

"The Administration strongly supports the version of H.R. 4541,


gramm's addendum to the bill was introduced on 12/15...in the
senate..and it stripped the SEC of the power to regulate
derivatives...the very derivatives that would blow up the economy in
2007

the house doesn't vote in the senate. you dont even know there are 2
chambers of congress...


It is important that this legislation be enacted this year because of
the meaningful steps it would take in helping to: promote innovation;
enhance the transparency and efficiency of derivative markets;

and gramm made sure that didn't happen

maintain the competitiveness of U.S. businesses and markets; and,
potentially, reduce systemic risk. H.R. 4541 would accomplish these
goals while assuring adequate customer protection for small investors
and protecting the integrity of the underlying securities and futures
markets. A failure to modernize the Nation's framework for OTC
derivatives during this legislative session would deprive American
markets and businesses of these important benefits and could result in
the movement of these markets to overseas locations with more updated
regulatory regimes. The Administration looks forward to working with
members of Congress to improve certain aspects of the bill as it
continues through the legislative process."

William J Clinton October 19,2000

guess you dont own a calendar

december comes AFTER october

OT What is "middle class"
 

On Apr 10, 8:16*pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"Canuck57" wrote in message

...



On 10/04/2010 3:47 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
*wrote in message
...
On 10/04/2010 1:54 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
* wrote in message
...
On 10/04/2010 1:11 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
* *wrote in message
.. .
On 10/04/2010 11:10 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 09:42:51 -0600,
wrote:

On 09/04/2010 11:33 PM, wrote:

Is that $125k plus as some here say or is it less?

Depends on how you manage money. *I have seen people live middle
class
at $50k and others broke at $125K.

There is more to being middle class than what you make. *It is
also
about attitude and self dicipline.

I agree with that. The most "broke" people I know make over $100k
but
they spend borrowed money like they make a million.

Yep. *My little sister is like that. *When life was good with two
good
jobs they leveraged up to the 9's. *We told them, now is the time to
solidify that wealth and pay off debt, not create more of it.

Now getting close to 50, and a huge mortgage on a dump when the last
recession hit. *Set her back 30 years financially. *But it is all
our
fault. *Typical liberal screwup will be working for a long time yet.

--
Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money.

No. It's her fault. But, feel free to blame the gov't (or liberals or
the
Ghost of Christmas Past). The bottom line is that she screwed up. It
happens.

She blames me because I didn't screw up like she did! *Stupid POS..
And
she blames C/conservatives as they should bail her out.

It happens a lot.

Raising kids liberally for example, they learn little of conservative
dicipline. *Then when 25 or so, one loser job after anotehr they fail
to
cope and do suicide.

This depression goes far beyond just the mechanics of government tax,
banking and corruption bailouts, the liberalism has become a disease
that
is hurting people big time.

As when uncle Obama runs out of cash or hasn't gotten around to you,
you
will be one disappointed liberal loser. *A conservative self starter
has
a
huge advantage over a entitlist liberal at the moment, but the liberal
wants to steal it.

--
Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money.

Maybe it is your fault. You're the older brother. Keep on ranting about
Obama. I'm sure someone inside your empty head cares.

It was years ago now since I saw the little slug. *Had her over for
dinner
with our mother, and after dinner I snapped when she grabbed our limited
income 75 year old mothers purse to pilfer money.

I simply said "Mom, I am sorry, I can't watch this any longer. *J-------
please get the frac out of this house you Liberal touting blood sucking
immoral POS. *Mom shouldn't have to put up with purse raiding and your
blood sucking 'poor me' screw up attitude any longer".

She went off in a fluff, haven't seen her since which suits me fine.

So I guess so. *I wasn't will to be abused by a freeloader, and didn't
like the idea of her freeloading on her elderly Mom.

But not my fault. *I can't control her, for if I owned her as a slave, I
would ahve it beaten right out of her hide.

--
Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money.

Wow... you come from quite a family. I feel bad for you now.

Don't. *I rose above it. *You are your own limitation to life. *You don't
know the 1/4 of it, I could write a book on it.

--
Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money.

I'm sorry, but I don't see it. What I do see is a paranoid, fearful guy, who
doesn't like anyone who's even slightly different.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Then you've mistaken Canuck for Krause.

OT What is "middle class"
 

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 01:15:12 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 00:24:37 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

i suggest you learn some history instead of relying on limballs to do
your homework for you


This is history

"The Administration strongly supports the version of H.R. 4541,


gramm's addendum to the bill was introduced on 12/15...in the
senate..and it stripped the SEC of the power to regulate
derivatives...the very derivatives that would blow up the economy in
2007

the house doesn't vote in the senate. you dont even know there are 2
chambers of congress...


It is important that this legislation be enacted this year because of
the meaningful steps it would take in helping to: promote innovation;
enhance the transparency and efficiency of derivative markets;

and gramm made sure that didn't happen

maintain the competitiveness of U.S. businesses and markets; and,
potentially, reduce systemic risk. H.R. 4541 would accomplish these
goals while assuring adequate customer protection for small investors
and protecting the integrity of the underlying securities and futures
markets. A failure to modernize the Nation's framework for OTC
derivatives during this legislative session would deprive American
markets and businesses of these important benefits and could result in
the movement of these markets to overseas locations with more updated
regulatory regimes. The Administration looks forward to working with
members of Congress to improve certain aspects of the bill as it
continues through the legislative process."

William J Clinton October 19,2000

guess you dont own a calendar

december comes AFTER october

Not sure which is more amusing.
Mr. BP denying that Clinton and the Democrats were whores to Wall
Street, or Mr. Gfretwell blaming the country's economic woes on Clinton.
And Mr. BP bemoans his 401k losses, while not seeing the need to keep
401k's inflated was what drove both Democrats and Republicans to whore
for Wall Street.
There is a great conflict there.
Perhaps a discussion about jobs and production, which are the engine of
the economy, would be more useful.
But that would take some thought beyond simple name-calling and endless
cites of Congressional votes.
Each time I sell a pair of shoes, I ponder the question of jobs.
Sure, I make a sale and do my part. But quite frankly I consider the
production chain and the jobs in the chain.
Selling a pair of Asian-made shoes might get me a sale, but I wonder
about sales lost due to those shoe-making jobs not being local.
I've notice quite a drop in sales recently, and find more and more
customers not wanting to keep their old shoes, because they are worn
more than ever before.
A rough estimate is that 30-50% of my customers discard the shoes they
are wearing when they leave my shop wearing new shoes, because the old
shoes have become unserviceable.
It used to be about 10%.
Troubling.

Peter