I do not like Lifesling
 

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

I do not like Lifesling
 

On 4/8/10 11:48 AM, Frogwatch wrote:
I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.


You need to separate your concerns about ring tossing, lifejackets and
boating safety in man overboard from paranoia.

There's nothing paranoid about being concerned about boating safety.

Yes, you are paranoid, but your paranoia has nothing to do with boating
safety.




--
http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

I do not like Lifesling
 

On Apr 8, 11:51*am, hk wrote:
On 4/8/10 11:48 AM, Frogwatch wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. *In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. *After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. *The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. *The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. *When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. *The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. *At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You need to separate your concerns about ring tossing, lifejackets and
boating safety in man overboard from paranoia.

There's nothing paranoid about being concerned about boating safety.

Yes, you are paranoid, but your paranoia has nothing to do with boating
safety.

--http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

Safe as can be hiding in your basement with your guns, huh?

I do not like Lifesling
 

On 4/8/10 12:04 PM, Loogypicker wrote:
On Apr 8, 11:51 am, wrote:
On 4/8/10 11:48 AM, Frogwatch wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You need to separate your concerns about ring tossing, lifejackets and
boating safety in man overboard from paranoia.

There's nothing paranoid about being concerned about boating safety.

Yes, you are paranoid, but your paranoia has nothing to do with boating
safety.

--http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

Safe as can be hiding in your basement with your guns, huh?



One never knows when a crazed Loogy will make good on his threats and
attempt a home invasion.




--
http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

I do not like Lifesling
 

On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:48:02 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You misunderstand how a Lifesling is supposed to be used. The idea
is to let all of the line out behind the boat and then circle the
person in the water like you were bringing the tow rope to a water
skiier. This is a maneuver that needs to be practiced.

You should really try to find a "Safety at Sea" course in your area.
They typically provide live demonstrations of all sorts of safety
equipment and some very worthwhile discussions by experts.

http://offshore.ussailing.org/SAS/Seminars.htm

I do not like Lifesling
 

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.


I've used the Lifesling extensively with a person in the water and it works
as advertised. You claim that you can't throw it? Why's that? You don't need
to get it that close to the COB on the initial throw. All you have to do is
circle the person and the line eventually brings the LS to the COB. We did
this in the SF bay during a sponsored event and the worst time to recovery -
from the 200-pounder jumping off the boat to standing back on the boat - was
about 4 minutes. This was in conditions that included a pretty strong ebb
and significant chop. The results of the event concluded that it was by far
the best method of recovery for a person who is conscious. Obviously nothing
that requires a person to take an active part in their recovery will work if
they're unable to grab.

Nothing wrong with the JimBuoy but I'd reconsider the clip if that's what's
holding it to the boat. You may not be able to unclip it under pressure..
e.g., the person grabs the buoy, but the boat's going too fast and you have
to cut them loose. I have a JimBuoy also, but it's not attached to the boat
if I deploy it. I put it and the Lifesling in a locker when I'm not using
the boat. Protects both.

A couple of things about the Lifesling... first, you should not tie a
bowline at the bitter end around an anchor point. You won't be able to untie
it under pressure. I teach (through USSailing) and on my boat using a round
turn and two half hitches. You can untie that knot. You need to ensure that
the Lifesling line is not in a big mess inside the bag. You want to stuff it
vs. flaking it. Poly line tends to kink and get into a knotted mess if you
coil it. The Lifesling is designed to work under all conditions, but it
shines in the situation when you don't want to sail away from the COB for
recovery, e.g., with the classic Figure 8.

One other item you might consider is a COB pole. It does help to be able to
see someone since it sits up fairly high - whereas a COB tends to float on
their PFDs at about head level... very hard to see in adverse conditions.
The pole is easy to deploy, but difficult to throw, so it's only worth doing
if you can deploy it quickly. The Lifesling is much more forgiving, since
all you have to do is circle the COB.

I'm sure you know this, but the basic procedure after yell and point is to
deploy. If you're headed up, come up higher then tack. Higher winds might
require sheeting in the main a bit more, but getting the boat downwind (and
back) is going to be tough if you're not fast enough. I typically tack as
fast as possible, then ease the main slightly so I can sail just a small
distance away before gybing (otherwise, the turn being so tight, there's a
real danger of running the COB over). The small amount of easying of the
main won't cause damage, and you can usually slow the gybe down by running a
bit. Then, you basically keep doing the tack and gybe until the person has
the line and then the horseshoe at the end of the line. My experience is
that the boat is barely moving at this point, even in 20 kts, and it's
pretty easy to put her into a hove-to fairly close to the COB. Last step is
hauling them to the boat, then using the block/tackle set up to hoist them
aboard. (We avoid using the stern, since there would be a lot of
hobby-horsing.)

Great show on the tether, stobes, EPIRB. Those, in my view, are essential at
night/off-shore.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

I do not like Lifesling
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:48:02 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You misunderstand how a Lifesling is supposed to be used. The idea
is to let all of the line out behind the boat and then circle the
person in the water like you were bringing the tow rope to a water
skiier. This is a maneuver that needs to be practiced.

You should really try to find a "Safety at Sea" course in your area.
They typically provide live demonstrations of all sorts of safety
equipment and some very worthwhile discussions by experts.

http://offshore.ussailing.org/SAS/Seminars.htm


Yes, that's what I participated in... a couple of years ago. The other good
point, which Wayne mentioned and I'll reinforce, is to get instruction and
even more importantly get in lots of practice. It can be fun to do - if the
water's warm and it's a nice day - with a volunteer. If it's not a nice day,
practice one or more of the regular non-Lifesling techniques, such as the
Quick Turn (aka Figure 8). You can't practice enough.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

I do not like Lifesling
 

On Apr 8, 1:27*pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...



On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:48:02 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. *In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. *After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. *The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. *The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. *When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. *The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. *At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You misunderstand how a Lifesling is supposed to be used. * The idea
is to let all of the line out behind the boat and then circle the
person in the water like you were bringing the tow rope to a water
skiier. * This is a maneuver that needs to be practiced.

You should really try to find a "Safety at Sea" course in your area.
They typically provide live demonstrations of all sorts of safety
equipment and some very worthwhile discussions by experts.

http://offshore.ussailing.org/SAS/Seminars.htm

Yes, that's what I participated in... a couple of years ago. The other good
point, which Wayne mentioned and I'll reinforce, is to get instruction and
even more importantly get in lots of practice. It can be fun to do - if the
water's warm and it's a nice day - with a volunteer. If it's not a nice day,
practice one or more of the regular non-Lifesling techniques, such as the
Quick Turn (aka Figure 8). You can't practice enough.

--
"j" ganz

I understand the circling bit until the Lifesling gets to the person
but that just seems kinda slow when what you really want to do is get
contact with the person ASAP.
Yes, I do need more practice though.

I do not like Lifesling
 

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 1:27 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...



On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:48:02 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You misunderstand how a Lifesling is supposed to be used. The idea
is to let all of the line out behind the boat and then circle the
person in the water like you were bringing the tow rope to a water
skiier. This is a maneuver that needs to be practiced.

You should really try to find a "Safety at Sea" course in your area.
They typically provide live demonstrations of all sorts of safety
equipment and some very worthwhile discussions by experts.

http://offshore.ussailing.org/SAS/Seminars.htm

Yes, that's what I participated in... a couple of years ago. The other
good
point, which Wayne mentioned and I'll reinforce, is to get instruction and
even more importantly get in lots of practice. It can be fun to do - if
the
water's warm and it's a nice day - with a volunteer. If it's not a nice
day,
practice one or more of the regular non-Lifesling techniques, such as the
Quick Turn (aka Figure 8). You can't practice enough.

--
"j" ganz

I understand the circling bit until the Lifesling gets to the person
but that just seems kinda slow when what you really want to do is get
contact with the person ASAP.
Yes, I do need more practice though.

I believe, in a sailboat, the objective is to approach the victim while
sailing upwind. You don't want to run him down & finish the job, eh?

I do not like Lifesling
 

"Don White" wrote in message
...

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 1:27 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...



On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:48:02 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You misunderstand how a Lifesling is supposed to be used. The idea
is to let all of the line out behind the boat and then circle the
person in the water like you were bringing the tow rope to a water
skiier. This is a maneuver that needs to be practiced.

You should really try to find a "Safety at Sea" course in your area.
They typically provide live demonstrations of all sorts of safety
equipment and some very worthwhile discussions by experts.

http://offshore.ussailing.org/SAS/Seminars.htm

Yes, that's what I participated in... a couple of years ago. The other
good
point, which Wayne mentioned and I'll reinforce, is to get instruction
and
even more importantly get in lots of practice. It can be fun to do - if
the
water's warm and it's a nice day - with a volunteer. If it's not a nice
day,
practice one or more of the regular non-Lifesling techniques, such as the
Quick Turn (aka Figure 8). You can't practice enough.

--
"j" ganz

I understand the circling bit until the Lifesling gets to the person
but that just seems kinda slow when what you really want to do is get
contact with the person ASAP.
Yes, I do need more practice though.

I believe, in a sailboat, the objective is to approach the victim while
sailing upwind. You don't want to run him down & finish the job, eh?

Yes. In fact, the object is not really to get to the person ASAP. Assuming
they're wearing a PFD, they're not going to sink. The initial object of the
process is to get yourself and your boat under control. Then, approach them
in a sensible way... from downwind... typically a close reach, since a close
haul give you no ability to point higher without stalling, and a beam reach
is too fast and nearly impossible to let out the sails enough to stop.

The object even after you've reached the COB is not to "get him out of the
water," but rather to attach the COB to the boat, then retrieve.

The Lifesling cuts the time to get back to the water vs. a more traditional
approach (e.g., Figure 8) and gives the COB something to grab that's
attached to the boat. Thus, in rough wind/sea state, you don't have a great
of a potential to lose sight of the COB.

Everyone needs more practice. I practice with my private students and even
some charters if they're interested.

It's really one of the essential lessons for sailing instruction. On the
bay, we typically teach the Fig. 8, since we're interested in teaching sail
trim and boat handling. It's too dangerous in these waters to put someone in
the water. I've done that in the Carib., but not here, save the seminars
previously mentioned.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com