I do not like Lifesling
 

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

I do not like Lifesling
 

On 4/8/10 11:48 AM, Frogwatch wrote:
I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.


You need to separate your concerns about ring tossing, lifejackets and
boating safety in man overboard from paranoia.

There's nothing paranoid about being concerned about boating safety.

Yes, you are paranoid, but your paranoia has nothing to do with boating
safety.




--
http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

I do not like Lifesling
 

On Apr 8, 11:51*am, hk wrote:
On 4/8/10 11:48 AM, Frogwatch wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. *In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. *After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. *The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. *The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. *When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. *The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. *At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You need to separate your concerns about ring tossing, lifejackets and
boating safety in man overboard from paranoia.

There's nothing paranoid about being concerned about boating safety.

Yes, you are paranoid, but your paranoia has nothing to do with boating
safety.

--http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

Safe as can be hiding in your basement with your guns, huh?

I do not like Lifesling
 

On 4/8/10 12:04 PM, Loogypicker wrote:
On Apr 8, 11:51 am, wrote:
On 4/8/10 11:48 AM, Frogwatch wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You need to separate your concerns about ring tossing, lifejackets and
boating safety in man overboard from paranoia.

There's nothing paranoid about being concerned about boating safety.

Yes, you are paranoid, but your paranoia has nothing to do with boating
safety.

--http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

Safe as can be hiding in your basement with your guns, huh?



One never knows when a crazed Loogy will make good on his threats and
attempt a home invasion.




--
http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

I do not like Lifesling
 

On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:48:02 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You misunderstand how a Lifesling is supposed to be used. The idea
is to let all of the line out behind the boat and then circle the
person in the water like you were bringing the tow rope to a water
skiier. This is a maneuver that needs to be practiced.

You should really try to find a "Safety at Sea" course in your area.
They typically provide live demonstrations of all sorts of safety
equipment and some very worthwhile discussions by experts.

http://offshore.ussailing.org/SAS/Seminars.htm

I do not like Lifesling
 

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.


I've used the Lifesling extensively with a person in the water and it works
as advertised. You claim that you can't throw it? Why's that? You don't need
to get it that close to the COB on the initial throw. All you have to do is
circle the person and the line eventually brings the LS to the COB. We did
this in the SF bay during a sponsored event and the worst time to recovery -
from the 200-pounder jumping off the boat to standing back on the boat - was
about 4 minutes. This was in conditions that included a pretty strong ebb
and significant chop. The results of the event concluded that it was by far
the best method of recovery for a person who is conscious. Obviously nothing
that requires a person to take an active part in their recovery will work if
they're unable to grab.

Nothing wrong with the JimBuoy but I'd reconsider the clip if that's what's
holding it to the boat. You may not be able to unclip it under pressure..
e.g., the person grabs the buoy, but the boat's going too fast and you have
to cut them loose. I have a JimBuoy also, but it's not attached to the boat
if I deploy it. I put it and the Lifesling in a locker when I'm not using
the boat. Protects both.

A couple of things about the Lifesling... first, you should not tie a
bowline at the bitter end around an anchor point. You won't be able to untie
it under pressure. I teach (through USSailing) and on my boat using a round
turn and two half hitches. You can untie that knot. You need to ensure that
the Lifesling line is not in a big mess inside the bag. You want to stuff it
vs. flaking it. Poly line tends to kink and get into a knotted mess if you
coil it. The Lifesling is designed to work under all conditions, but it
shines in the situation when you don't want to sail away from the COB for
recovery, e.g., with the classic Figure 8.

One other item you might consider is a COB pole. It does help to be able to
see someone since it sits up fairly high - whereas a COB tends to float on
their PFDs at about head level... very hard to see in adverse conditions.
The pole is easy to deploy, but difficult to throw, so it's only worth doing
if you can deploy it quickly. The Lifesling is much more forgiving, since
all you have to do is circle the COB.

I'm sure you know this, but the basic procedure after yell and point is to
deploy. If you're headed up, come up higher then tack. Higher winds might
require sheeting in the main a bit more, but getting the boat downwind (and
back) is going to be tough if you're not fast enough. I typically tack as
fast as possible, then ease the main slightly so I can sail just a small
distance away before gybing (otherwise, the turn being so tight, there's a
real danger of running the COB over). The small amount of easying of the
main won't cause damage, and you can usually slow the gybe down by running a
bit. Then, you basically keep doing the tack and gybe until the person has
the line and then the horseshoe at the end of the line. My experience is
that the boat is barely moving at this point, even in 20 kts, and it's
pretty easy to put her into a hove-to fairly close to the COB. Last step is
hauling them to the boat, then using the block/tackle set up to hoist them
aboard. (We avoid using the stern, since there would be a lot of
hobby-horsing.)

Great show on the tether, stobes, EPIRB. Those, in my view, are essential at
night/off-shore.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

I do not like Lifesling
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:48:02 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You misunderstand how a Lifesling is supposed to be used. The idea
is to let all of the line out behind the boat and then circle the
person in the water like you were bringing the tow rope to a water
skiier. This is a maneuver that needs to be practiced.

You should really try to find a "Safety at Sea" course in your area.
They typically provide live demonstrations of all sorts of safety
equipment and some very worthwhile discussions by experts.

http://offshore.ussailing.org/SAS/Seminars.htm


Yes, that's what I participated in... a couple of years ago. The other good
point, which Wayne mentioned and I'll reinforce, is to get instruction and
even more importantly get in lots of practice. It can be fun to do - if the
water's warm and it's a nice day - with a volunteer. If it's not a nice day,
practice one or more of the regular non-Lifesling techniques, such as the
Quick Turn (aka Figure 8). You can't practice enough.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

I do not like Lifesling
 

On Apr 8, 1:27*pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...



On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:48:02 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. *In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. *After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. *The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. *The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. *When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. *The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. *At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You misunderstand how a Lifesling is supposed to be used. * The idea
is to let all of the line out behind the boat and then circle the
person in the water like you were bringing the tow rope to a water
skiier. * This is a maneuver that needs to be practiced.

You should really try to find a "Safety at Sea" course in your area.
They typically provide live demonstrations of all sorts of safety
equipment and some very worthwhile discussions by experts.

http://offshore.ussailing.org/SAS/Seminars.htm

Yes, that's what I participated in... a couple of years ago. The other good
point, which Wayne mentioned and I'll reinforce, is to get instruction and
even more importantly get in lots of practice. It can be fun to do - if the
water's warm and it's a nice day - with a volunteer. If it's not a nice day,
practice one or more of the regular non-Lifesling techniques, such as the
Quick Turn (aka Figure 8). You can't practice enough.

--
"j" ganz

I understand the circling bit until the Lifesling gets to the person
but that just seems kinda slow when what you really want to do is get
contact with the person ASAP.
Yes, I do need more practice though.

I do not like Lifesling
 

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 1:27 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...



On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:48:02 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You misunderstand how a Lifesling is supposed to be used. The idea
is to let all of the line out behind the boat and then circle the
person in the water like you were bringing the tow rope to a water
skiier. This is a maneuver that needs to be practiced.

You should really try to find a "Safety at Sea" course in your area.
They typically provide live demonstrations of all sorts of safety
equipment and some very worthwhile discussions by experts.

http://offshore.ussailing.org/SAS/Seminars.htm

Yes, that's what I participated in... a couple of years ago. The other
good
point, which Wayne mentioned and I'll reinforce, is to get instruction and
even more importantly get in lots of practice. It can be fun to do - if
the
water's warm and it's a nice day - with a volunteer. If it's not a nice
day,
practice one or more of the regular non-Lifesling techniques, such as the
Quick Turn (aka Figure 8). You can't practice enough.

--
"j" ganz

I understand the circling bit until the Lifesling gets to the person
but that just seems kinda slow when what you really want to do is get
contact with the person ASAP.
Yes, I do need more practice though.

I believe, in a sailboat, the objective is to approach the victim while
sailing upwind. You don't want to run him down & finish the job, eh?

I do not like Lifesling
 

"Don White" wrote in message
...

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 1:27 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...



On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:48:02 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You misunderstand how a Lifesling is supposed to be used. The idea
is to let all of the line out behind the boat and then circle the
person in the water like you were bringing the tow rope to a water
skiier. This is a maneuver that needs to be practiced.

You should really try to find a "Safety at Sea" course in your area.
They typically provide live demonstrations of all sorts of safety
equipment and some very worthwhile discussions by experts.

http://offshore.ussailing.org/SAS/Seminars.htm

Yes, that's what I participated in... a couple of years ago. The other
good
point, which Wayne mentioned and I'll reinforce, is to get instruction
and
even more importantly get in lots of practice. It can be fun to do - if
the
water's warm and it's a nice day - with a volunteer. If it's not a nice
day,
practice one or more of the regular non-Lifesling techniques, such as the
Quick Turn (aka Figure 8). You can't practice enough.

--
"j" ganz

I understand the circling bit until the Lifesling gets to the person
but that just seems kinda slow when what you really want to do is get
contact with the person ASAP.
Yes, I do need more practice though.

I believe, in a sailboat, the objective is to approach the victim while
sailing upwind. You don't want to run him down & finish the job, eh?

Yes. In fact, the object is not really to get to the person ASAP. Assuming
they're wearing a PFD, they're not going to sink. The initial object of the
process is to get yourself and your boat under control. Then, approach them
in a sensible way... from downwind... typically a close reach, since a close
haul give you no ability to point higher without stalling, and a beam reach
is too fast and nearly impossible to let out the sails enough to stop.

The object even after you've reached the COB is not to "get him out of the
water," but rather to attach the COB to the boat, then retrieve.

The Lifesling cuts the time to get back to the water vs. a more traditional
approach (e.g., Figure 8) and gives the COB something to grab that's
attached to the boat. Thus, in rough wind/sea state, you don't have a great
of a potential to lose sight of the COB.

Everyone needs more practice. I practice with my private students and even
some charters if they're interested.

It's really one of the essential lessons for sailing instruction. On the
bay, we typically teach the Fig. 8, since we're interested in teaching sail
trim and boat handling. It's too dangerous in these waters to put someone in
the water. I've done that in the Carib., but not here, save the seminars
previously mentioned.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

I do not like Lifesling
 

On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 11:37:39 -0700, "Capt. JG" wrote:

"Don White" wrote in message
. ..

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 1:27 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...



On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:48:02 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You misunderstand how a Lifesling is supposed to be used. The idea
is to let all of the line out behind the boat and then circle the
person in the water like you were bringing the tow rope to a water
skiier. This is a maneuver that needs to be practiced.

You should really try to find a "Safety at Sea" course in your area.
They typically provide live demonstrations of all sorts of safety
equipment and some very worthwhile discussions by experts.

http://offshore.ussailing.org/SAS/Seminars.htm

Yes, that's what I participated in... a couple of years ago. The other
good
point, which Wayne mentioned and I'll reinforce, is to get instruction
and
even more importantly get in lots of practice. It can be fun to do - if
the
water's warm and it's a nice day - with a volunteer. If it's not a nice
day,
practice one or more of the regular non-Lifesling techniques, such as the
Quick Turn (aka Figure 8). You can't practice enough.

--
"j" ganz

I understand the circling bit until the Lifesling gets to the person
but that just seems kinda slow when what you really want to do is get
contact with the person ASAP.
Yes, I do need more practice though.

I believe, in a sailboat, the objective is to approach the victim while
sailing upwind. You don't want to run him down & finish the job, eh?

Yes. In fact, the object is not really to get to the person ASAP. Assuming
they're wearing a PFD, they're not going to sink. The initial object of the
process is to get yourself and your boat under control. Then, approach them
in a sensible way... from downwind... typically a close reach, since a close
haul give you no ability to point higher without stalling, and a beam reach
is too fast and nearly impossible to let out the sails enough to stop.

The object even after you've reached the COB is not to "get him out of the
water," but rather to attach the COB to the boat, then retrieve.

The Lifesling cuts the time to get back to the water vs. a more traditional
approach (e.g., Figure 8) and gives the COB something to grab that's
attached to the boat. Thus, in rough wind/sea state, you don't have a great
of a potential to lose sight of the COB.

Everyone needs more practice. I practice with my private students and even
some charters if they're interested.

It's really one of the essential lessons for sailing instruction. On the
bay, we typically teach the Fig. 8, since we're interested in teaching sail
trim and boat handling. It's too dangerous in these waters to put someone in
the water. I've done that in the Carib., but not here, save the seminars
previously mentioned.

Damn. For a bit I thought you meant the Chesapeake.

I do not like Lifesling
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
"Don White" wrote in message
...

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 1:27 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...



On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:48:02 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You misunderstand how a Lifesling is supposed to be used. The idea
is to let all of the line out behind the boat and then circle the
person in the water like you were bringing the tow rope to a water
skiier. This is a maneuver that needs to be practiced.

You should really try to find a "Safety at Sea" course in your area.
They typically provide live demonstrations of all sorts of safety
equipment and some very worthwhile discussions by experts.

http://offshore.ussailing.org/SAS/Seminars.htm

Yes, that's what I participated in... a couple of years ago. The other
good
point, which Wayne mentioned and I'll reinforce, is to get instruction
and
even more importantly get in lots of practice. It can be fun to do - if
the
water's warm and it's a nice day - with a volunteer. If it's not a nice
day,
practice one or more of the regular non-Lifesling techniques, such as
the
Quick Turn (aka Figure 8). You can't practice enough.

--
"j" ganz

I understand the circling bit until the Lifesling gets to the person
but that just seems kinda slow when what you really want to do is get
contact with the person ASAP.
Yes, I do need more practice though.

I believe, in a sailboat, the objective is to approach the victim while
sailing upwind. You don't want to run him down & finish the job, eh?

Yes. In fact, the object is not really to get to the person ASAP. Assuming
they're wearing a PFD, they're not going to sink. The initial object of
the process is to get yourself and your boat under control. Then, approach
them in a sensible way... from downwind... typically a close reach, since
a close haul give you no ability to point higher without stalling, and a
beam reach is too fast and nearly impossible to let out the sails enough
to stop.

The object even after you've reached the COB is not to "get him out of the
water," but rather to attach the COB to the boat, then retrieve.

The Lifesling cuts the time to get back to the water vs. a more
traditional approach (e.g., Figure 8) and gives the COB something to grab
that's attached to the boat. Thus, in rough wind/sea state, you don't have
a great of a potential to lose sight of the COB.

Everyone needs more practice. I practice with my private students and even
some charters if they're interested.

It's really one of the essential lessons for sailing instruction. On the
bay, we typically teach the Fig. 8, since we're interested in teaching
sail trim and boat handling. It's too dangerous in these waters to put
someone in the water. I've done that in the Carib., but not here, save the
seminars previously mentioned.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com




Bad assumption. What if no PFD? You want to get a life ring or a
floatation device to the person so they can stay above water. Especially in
cold water. Only MOB situation I was in was about 40 years ago and they guy
fell off the boat in to 50 degree water with a heavy coat on while salmon
fishing. Threw him a life ring so he would have some floatation and kept
eyes on him while I instructed the guy at the wheel where to go. And
Lifeslings were recalled for some forgotten reason about 20 years ago.

I do not like Lifesling
 

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
"Don White" wrote in message
...

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 1:27 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...



On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:48:02 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via
a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You misunderstand how a Lifesling is supposed to be used. The idea
is to let all of the line out behind the boat and then circle the
person in the water like you were bringing the tow rope to a water
skiier. This is a maneuver that needs to be practiced.

You should really try to find a "Safety at Sea" course in your area.
They typically provide live demonstrations of all sorts of safety
equipment and some very worthwhile discussions by experts.

http://offshore.ussailing.org/SAS/Seminars.htm

Yes, that's what I participated in... a couple of years ago. The other
good
point, which Wayne mentioned and I'll reinforce, is to get instruction
and
even more importantly get in lots of practice. It can be fun to do - if
the
water's warm and it's a nice day - with a volunteer. If it's not a nice
day,
practice one or more of the regular non-Lifesling techniques, such as
the
Quick Turn (aka Figure 8). You can't practice enough.

--
"j" ganz

I understand the circling bit until the Lifesling gets to the person
but that just seems kinda slow when what you really want to do is get
contact with the person ASAP.
Yes, I do need more practice though.

I believe, in a sailboat, the objective is to approach the victim while
sailing upwind. You don't want to run him down & finish the job, eh?

Yes. In fact, the object is not really to get to the person ASAP.
Assuming they're wearing a PFD, they're not going to sink. The initial
object of the process is to get yourself and your boat under control.
Then, approach them in a sensible way... from downwind... typically a
close reach, since a close haul give you no ability to point higher
without stalling, and a beam reach is too fast and nearly impossible to
let out the sails enough to stop.

The object even after you've reached the COB is not to "get him out of
the water," but rather to attach the COB to the boat, then retrieve.

The Lifesling cuts the time to get back to the water vs. a more
traditional approach (e.g., Figure 8) and gives the COB something to grab
that's attached to the boat. Thus, in rough wind/sea state, you don't
have a great of a potential to lose sight of the COB.

Everyone needs more practice. I practice with my private students and
even some charters if they're interested.

It's really one of the essential lessons for sailing instruction. On the
bay, we typically teach the Fig. 8, since we're interested in teaching
sail trim and boat handling. It's too dangerous in these waters to put
someone in the water. I've done that in the Carib., but not here, save
the seminars previously mentioned.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com




Bad assumption. What if no PFD? You want to get a life ring or a
floatation device to the person so they can stay above water. Especially
in cold water. Only MOB situation I was in was about 40 years ago and
they guy fell off the boat in to 50 degree water with a heavy coat on
while salmon fishing. Threw him a life ring so he would have some
floatation and kept eyes on him while I instructed the guy at the wheel
where to go. And Lifeslings were recalled for some forgotten reason about
20 years ago.

It's not a bad assumption, given two factors. First, he pretty much implied
everyone was wearing one. Second, on my boat I require everyone to wear a
PFD. If you're wearing a PFD, you're going to be floating. The chances of an
inflatable failing is minimal, as long as it's properly maintained, which is
a trivial job.

Of course, getting back sooner vs. later is better. But, you can't
compromise the safety of the rest of the crew or the boat by acting
prematurely.

In the case of no PFD, then the options are much more limited. If the person
is conscious, even in 50 deg water, they're going to have useful
consciousness for 15 to 20 minutes (perhaps more). Throwing something,
perhaps lots of things that float is always a good idea. It sounds like you
did the right thing.. I take it the person survived.

If the person is unconscious, the options dwindle further. Probably, they're
going to die without a PFD. Not much can be done except try.

The Lifesling has undergone extensive testing, and the CG approved models
work as advertised.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

I do not like Lifesling
 

On 09/04/2010 00:55, Capt. JG wrote:
"Bill wrote in message
...

"Capt. wrote in message
easolutions...
"Don wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 1:27 pm, "Capt. wrote:
wrote in message

...



On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:48:02 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via
a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You misunderstand how a Lifesling is supposed to be used. The idea
is to let all of the line out behind the boat and then circle the
person in the water like you were bringing the tow rope to a water
skiier. This is a maneuver that needs to be practiced.

You should really try to find a "Safety at Sea" course in your area.
They typically provide live demonstrations of all sorts of safety
equipment and some very worthwhile discussions by experts.

http://offshore.ussailing.org/SAS/Seminars.htm

Yes, that's what I participated in... a couple of years ago. The other
good
point, which Wayne mentioned and I'll reinforce, is to get instruction
and
even more importantly get in lots of practice. It can be fun to do - if
the
water's warm and it's a nice day - with a volunteer. If it's not a nice
day,
practice one or more of the regular non-Lifesling techniques, such as
the
Quick Turn (aka Figure 8). You can't practice enough.

--
"j" ganz

I understand the circling bit until the Lifesling gets to the person
but that just seems kinda slow when what you really want to do is get
contact with the person ASAP.
Yes, I do need more practice though.

I believe, in a sailboat, the objective is to approach the victim while
sailing upwind. You don't want to run him down& finish the job, eh?

Yes. In fact, the object is not really to get to the person ASAP.
Assuming they're wearing a PFD, they're not going to sink. The initial
object of the process is to get yourself and your boat under control.
Then, approach them in a sensible way... from downwind... typically a
close reach, since a close haul give you no ability to point higher
without stalling, and a beam reach is too fast and nearly impossible to
let out the sails enough to stop.

The object even after you've reached the COB is not to "get him out of
the water," but rather to attach the COB to the boat, then retrieve.

The Lifesling cuts the time to get back to the water vs. a more
traditional approach (e.g., Figure 8) and gives the COB something to grab
that's attached to the boat. Thus, in rough wind/sea state, you don't
have a great of a potential to lose sight of the COB.

Everyone needs more practice. I practice with my private students and
even some charters if they're interested.

It's really one of the essential lessons for sailing instruction. On the
bay, we typically teach the Fig. 8, since we're interested in teaching
sail trim and boat handling. It's too dangerous in these waters to put
someone in the water. I've done that in the Carib., but not here, save
the seminars previously mentioned.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com




Bad assumption. What if no PFD? You want to get a life ring or a
floatation device to the person so they can stay above water. Especially
in cold water. Only MOB situation I was in was about 40 years ago and
they guy fell off the boat in to 50 degree water with a heavy coat on
while salmon fishing. Threw him a life ring so he would have some
floatation and kept eyes on him while I instructed the guy at the wheel
where to go. And Lifeslings were recalled for some forgotten reason about
20 years ago.

It's not a bad assumption, given two factors. First, he pretty much implied
everyone was wearing one. Second, on my boat I require everyone to wear a
PFD. If you're wearing a PFD, you're going to be floating. The chances of an
inflatable failing is minimal, as long as it's properly maintained, which is
a trivial job.

Of course, getting back sooner vs. later is better. But, you can't
compromise the safety of the rest of the crew or the boat by acting
prematurely.

In the case of no PFD, then the options are much more limited. If the person
is conscious, even in 50 deg water, they're going to have useful
consciousness for 15 to 20 minutes (perhaps more). Throwing something,
perhaps lots of things that float is always a good idea. It sounds like you
did the right thing.. I take it the person survived.

If the person is unconscious, the options dwindle further. Probably, they're
going to die without a PFD. Not much can be done except try.

The Lifesling has undergone extensive testing, and the CG approved models
work as advertised.


I just tell people that if they fall out they are dead and I am not
going to pick them up.

I do not like Lifesling
 

"goofball_star_dot_etal" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 09/04/2010 00:55, Capt. JG wrote:
"Bill wrote in message
...

"Capt. wrote in message
easolutions...
"Don wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 1:27 pm, "Capt. wrote:
wrote in message

...



On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:48:02 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something
to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on
the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach
via
a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new
EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You misunderstand how a Lifesling is supposed to be used. The idea
is to let all of the line out behind the boat and then circle the
person in the water like you were bringing the tow rope to a water
skiier. This is a maneuver that needs to be practiced.

You should really try to find a "Safety at Sea" course in your area.
They typically provide live demonstrations of all sorts of safety
equipment and some very worthwhile discussions by experts.

http://offshore.ussailing.org/SAS/Seminars.htm

Yes, that's what I participated in... a couple of years ago. The
other
good
point, which Wayne mentioned and I'll reinforce, is to get
instruction
and
even more importantly get in lots of practice. It can be fun to do -
if
the
water's warm and it's a nice day - with a volunteer. If it's not a
nice
day,
practice one or more of the regular non-Lifesling techniques, such as
the
Quick Turn (aka Figure 8). You can't practice enough.

--
"j" ganz

I understand the circling bit until the Lifesling gets to the person
but that just seems kinda slow when what you really want to do is get
contact with the person ASAP.
Yes, I do need more practice though.

I believe, in a sailboat, the objective is to approach the victim
while
sailing upwind. You don't want to run him down& finish the job, eh?

Yes. In fact, the object is not really to get to the person ASAP.
Assuming they're wearing a PFD, they're not going to sink. The initial
object of the process is to get yourself and your boat under control.
Then, approach them in a sensible way... from downwind... typically a
close reach, since a close haul give you no ability to point higher
without stalling, and a beam reach is too fast and nearly impossible to
let out the sails enough to stop.

The object even after you've reached the COB is not to "get him out of
the water," but rather to attach the COB to the boat, then retrieve.

The Lifesling cuts the time to get back to the water vs. a more
traditional approach (e.g., Figure 8) and gives the COB something to
grab
that's attached to the boat. Thus, in rough wind/sea state, you don't
have a great of a potential to lose sight of the COB.

Everyone needs more practice. I practice with my private students and
even some charters if they're interested.

It's really one of the essential lessons for sailing instruction. On
the
bay, we typically teach the Fig. 8, since we're interested in teaching
sail trim and boat handling. It's too dangerous in these waters to put
someone in the water. I've done that in the Carib., but not here, save
the seminars previously mentioned.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com




Bad assumption. What if no PFD? You want to get a life ring or a
floatation device to the person so they can stay above water.
Especially
in cold water. Only MOB situation I was in was about 40 years ago and
they guy fell off the boat in to 50 degree water with a heavy coat on
while salmon fishing. Threw him a life ring so he would have some
floatation and kept eyes on him while I instructed the guy at the wheel
where to go. And Lifeslings were recalled for some forgotten reason
about
20 years ago.

It's not a bad assumption, given two factors. First, he pretty much
implied
everyone was wearing one. Second, on my boat I require everyone to wear a
PFD. If you're wearing a PFD, you're going to be floating. The chances of
an
inflatable failing is minimal, as long as it's properly maintained, which
is
a trivial job.

Of course, getting back sooner vs. later is better. But, you can't
compromise the safety of the rest of the crew or the boat by acting
prematurely.

In the case of no PFD, then the options are much more limited. If the
person
is conscious, even in 50 deg water, they're going to have useful
consciousness for 15 to 20 minutes (perhaps more). Throwing something,
perhaps lots of things that float is always a good idea. It sounds like
you
did the right thing.. I take it the person survived.

If the person is unconscious, the options dwindle further. Probably,
they're
going to die without a PFD. Not much can be done except try.

The Lifesling has undergone extensive testing, and the CG approved models
work as advertised.


I just tell people that if they fall out they are dead and I am not going
to pick them up.


Don't get a lot of return visitors I imagine. I ask them if they know how to
swim. No matter which way they answer, I tell them to wallets/purses in the
cabin area. :-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

I do not like Lifesling
 

On 09/04/2010 19:02, Capt. JG wrote:
w wrote in message
o.uk...
On 09/04/2010 00:55, Capt. JG wrote:
"Bill wrote in message
...

"Capt. wrote in message
easolutions...
"Don wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 1:27 pm, "Capt. wrote:
wrote in message

...



On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:48:02 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something
to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on
the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach
via
a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new
EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You misunderstand how a Lifesling is supposed to be used. The idea
is to let all of the line out behind the boat and then circle the
person in the water like you were bringing the tow rope to a water
skiier. This is a maneuver that needs to be practiced.

You should really try to find a "Safety at Sea" course in your area.
They typically provide live demonstrations of all sorts of safety
equipment and some very worthwhile discussions by experts.

http://offshore.ussailing.org/SAS/Seminars.htm

Yes, that's what I participated in... a couple of years ago. The
other
good
point, which Wayne mentioned and I'll reinforce, is to get
instruction
and
even more importantly get in lots of practice. It can be fun to do -
if
the
water's warm and it's a nice day - with a volunteer. If it's not a
nice
day,
practice one or more of the regular non-Lifesling techniques, such as
the
Quick Turn (aka Figure 8). You can't practice enough.

--
"j" ganz

I understand the circling bit until the Lifesling gets to the person
but that just seems kinda slow when what you really want to do is get
contact with the person ASAP.
Yes, I do need more practice though.

I believe, in a sailboat, the objective is to approach the victim
while
sailing upwind. You don't want to run him down& finish the job, eh?

Yes. In fact, the object is not really to get to the person ASAP.
Assuming they're wearing a PFD, they're not going to sink. The initial
object of the process is to get yourself and your boat under control.
Then, approach them in a sensible way... from downwind... typically a
close reach, since a close haul give you no ability to point higher
without stalling, and a beam reach is too fast and nearly impossible to
let out the sails enough to stop.

The object even after you've reached the COB is not to "get him out of
the water," but rather to attach the COB to the boat, then retrieve.

The Lifesling cuts the time to get back to the water vs. a more
traditional approach (e.g., Figure 8) and gives the COB something to
grab
that's attached to the boat. Thus, in rough wind/sea state, you don't
have a great of a potential to lose sight of the COB.

Everyone needs more practice. I practice with my private students and
even some charters if they're interested.

It's really one of the essential lessons for sailing instruction. On
the
bay, we typically teach the Fig. 8, since we're interested in teaching
sail trim and boat handling. It's too dangerous in these waters to put
someone in the water. I've done that in the Carib., but not here, save
the seminars previously mentioned.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com




Bad assumption. What if no PFD? You want to get a life ring or a
floatation device to the person so they can stay above water.
Especially
in cold water. Only MOB situation I was in was about 40 years ago and
they guy fell off the boat in to 50 degree water with a heavy coat on
while salmon fishing. Threw him a life ring so he would have some
floatation and kept eyes on him while I instructed the guy at the wheel
where to go. And Lifeslings were recalled for some forgotten reason
about
20 years ago.

It's not a bad assumption, given two factors. First, he pretty much
implied
everyone was wearing one. Second, on my boat I require everyone to wear a
PFD. If you're wearing a PFD, you're going to be floating. The chances of
an
inflatable failing is minimal, as long as it's properly maintained, which
is
a trivial job.

Of course, getting back sooner vs. later is better. But, you can't
compromise the safety of the rest of the crew or the boat by acting
prematurely.

In the case of no PFD, then the options are much more limited. If the
person
is conscious, even in 50 deg water, they're going to have useful
consciousness for 15 to 20 minutes (perhaps more). Throwing something,
perhaps lots of things that float is always a good idea. It sounds like
you
did the right thing.. I take it the person survived.

If the person is unconscious, the options dwindle further. Probably,
they're
going to die without a PFD. Not much can be done except try.

The Lifesling has undergone extensive testing, and the CG approved models
work as advertised.


I just tell people that if they fall out they are dead and I am not going
to pick them up.


Don't get a lot of return visitors I imagine.

You get what you pay for!

I ask them if they know how to
swim. No matter which way they answer, I tell them to wallets/purses in the
cabin area. :-)

I do not like Lifesling
 

On 09/04/2010 00:55, Capt. JG wrote:
"Bill wrote in message
...

"Capt. wrote in message
easolutions...
"Don wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 1:27 pm, "Capt. wrote:
wrote in message

...



On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:48:02 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via
a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You misunderstand how a Lifesling is supposed to be used. The idea
is to let all of the line out behind the boat and then circle the
person in the water like you were bringing the tow rope to a water
skiier. This is a maneuver that needs to be practiced.

You should really try to find a "Safety at Sea" course in your area.
They typically provide live demonstrations of all sorts of safety
equipment and some very worthwhile discussions by experts.

http://offshore.ussailing.org/SAS/Seminars.htm

Yes, that's what I participated in... a couple of years ago. The other
good
point, which Wayne mentioned and I'll reinforce, is to get instruction
and
even more importantly get in lots of practice. It can be fun to do - if
the
water's warm and it's a nice day - with a volunteer. If it's not a nice
day,
practice one or more of the regular non-Lifesling techniques, such as
the
Quick Turn (aka Figure 8). You can't practice enough.

--
"j" ganz

I understand the circling bit until the Lifesling gets to the person
but that just seems kinda slow when what you really want to do is get
contact with the person ASAP.
Yes, I do need more practice though.

I believe, in a sailboat, the objective is to approach the victim while
sailing upwind. You don't want to run him down& finish the job, eh?

Yes. In fact, the object is not really to get to the person ASAP.
Assuming they're wearing a PFD, they're not going to sink. The initial
object of the process is to get yourself and your boat under control.
Then, approach them in a sensible way... from downwind... typically a
close reach, since a close haul give you no ability to point higher
without stalling, and a beam reach is too fast and nearly impossible to
let out the sails enough to stop.

The object even after you've reached the COB is not to "get him out of
the water," but rather to attach the COB to the boat, then retrieve.

The Lifesling cuts the time to get back to the water vs. a more
traditional approach (e.g., Figure 8) and gives the COB something to grab
that's attached to the boat. Thus, in rough wind/sea state, you don't
have a great of a potential to lose sight of the COB.

Everyone needs more practice. I practice with my private students and
even some charters if they're interested.

It's really one of the essential lessons for sailing instruction. On the
bay, we typically teach the Fig. 8, since we're interested in teaching
sail trim and boat handling. It's too dangerous in these waters to put
someone in the water. I've done that in the Carib., but not here, save
the seminars previously mentioned.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com




Bad assumption. What if no PFD? You want to get a life ring or a
floatation device to the person so they can stay above water. Especially
in cold water. Only MOB situation I was in was about 40 years ago and
they guy fell off the boat in to 50 degree water with a heavy coat on
while salmon fishing. Threw him a life ring so he would have some
floatation and kept eyes on him while I instructed the guy at the wheel
where to go. And Lifeslings were recalled for some forgotten reason about
20 years ago.

It's not a bad assumption, given two factors. First, he pretty much implied
everyone was wearing one. Second, on my boat I require everyone to wear a
PFD. If you're wearing a PFD, you're going to be floating. The chances of an
inflatable failing is minimal, as long as it's properly maintained, which is
a trivial job.

Of course, getting back sooner vs. later is better. But, you can't
compromise the safety of the rest of the crew or the boat by acting
prematurely.

In the case of no PFD, then the options are much more limited. If the person
is conscious, even in 50 deg water, they're going to have useful
consciousness for 15 to 20 minutes (perhaps more). Throwing something,
perhaps lots of things that float is always a good idea. It sounds like you
did the right thing.. I take it the person survived.

If the person is unconscious, the options dwindle further. Probably, they're
going to die without a PFD. Not much can be done except try.

The Lifesling has undergone extensive testing, and the CG approved models
work as advertised.

I don't think they had H%S when I was a kid, but at least I had a duffle
coat..
http://www.ceredigion.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=12585

I do not like Lifesling
 

"goofball_star_dot_etal" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 09/04/2010 00:55, Capt. JG wrote:
"Bill wrote in message
...

"Capt. wrote in message
easolutions...
"Don wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 1:27 pm, "Capt. wrote:
wrote in message

...



On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:48:02 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something
to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on
the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach
via
a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new
EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You misunderstand how a Lifesling is supposed to be used. The idea
is to let all of the line out behind the boat and then circle the
person in the water like you were bringing the tow rope to a water
skiier. This is a maneuver that needs to be practiced.

You should really try to find a "Safety at Sea" course in your area.
They typically provide live demonstrations of all sorts of safety
equipment and some very worthwhile discussions by experts.

http://offshore.ussailing.org/SAS/Seminars.htm

Yes, that's what I participated in... a couple of years ago. The
other
good
point, which Wayne mentioned and I'll reinforce, is to get
instruction
and
even more importantly get in lots of practice. It can be fun to do -
if
the
water's warm and it's a nice day - with a volunteer. If it's not a
nice
day,
practice one or more of the regular non-Lifesling techniques, such as
the
Quick Turn (aka Figure 8). You can't practice enough.

--
"j" ganz

I understand the circling bit until the Lifesling gets to the person
but that just seems kinda slow when what you really want to do is get
contact with the person ASAP.
Yes, I do need more practice though.

I believe, in a sailboat, the objective is to approach the victim
while
sailing upwind. You don't want to run him down& finish the job, eh?

Yes. In fact, the object is not really to get to the person ASAP.
Assuming they're wearing a PFD, they're not going to sink. The initial
object of the process is to get yourself and your boat under control.
Then, approach them in a sensible way... from downwind... typically a
close reach, since a close haul give you no ability to point higher
without stalling, and a beam reach is too fast and nearly impossible to
let out the sails enough to stop.

The object even after you've reached the COB is not to "get him out of
the water," but rather to attach the COB to the boat, then retrieve.

The Lifesling cuts the time to get back to the water vs. a more
traditional approach (e.g., Figure 8) and gives the COB something to
grab
that's attached to the boat. Thus, in rough wind/sea state, you don't
have a great of a potential to lose sight of the COB.

Everyone needs more practice. I practice with my private students and
even some charters if they're interested.

It's really one of the essential lessons for sailing instruction. On
the
bay, we typically teach the Fig. 8, since we're interested in teaching
sail trim and boat handling. It's too dangerous in these waters to put
someone in the water. I've done that in the Carib., but not here, save
the seminars previously mentioned.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com




Bad assumption. What if no PFD? You want to get a life ring or a
floatation device to the person so they can stay above water.
Especially
in cold water. Only MOB situation I was in was about 40 years ago and
they guy fell off the boat in to 50 degree water with a heavy coat on
while salmon fishing. Threw him a life ring so he would have some
floatation and kept eyes on him while I instructed the guy at the wheel
where to go. And Lifeslings were recalled for some forgotten reason
about
20 years ago.

It's not a bad assumption, given two factors. First, he pretty much
implied
everyone was wearing one. Second, on my boat I require everyone to wear a
PFD. If you're wearing a PFD, you're going to be floating. The chances of
an
inflatable failing is minimal, as long as it's properly maintained, which
is
a trivial job.

Of course, getting back sooner vs. later is better. But, you can't
compromise the safety of the rest of the crew or the boat by acting
prematurely.

In the case of no PFD, then the options are much more limited. If the
person
is conscious, even in 50 deg water, they're going to have useful
consciousness for 15 to 20 minutes (perhaps more). Throwing something,
perhaps lots of things that float is always a good idea. It sounds like
you
did the right thing.. I take it the person survived.

If the person is unconscious, the options dwindle further. Probably,
they're
going to die without a PFD. Not much can be done except try.

The Lifesling has undergone extensive testing, and the CG approved models
work as advertised.

I don't think they had H%S when I was a kid, but at least I had a duffle
coat..
http://www.ceredigion.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=12585


H%S? Don't know that acronym.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

I do not like Lifesling
 

On Apr 8, 7:48*am, Frogwatch wrote:
I have one but when I consider how it is to be used,
YES, I am paranoid.

After reading all the advice I realized each advisor here neglected to
consider a couple basic quesions before shooitn off their moth.

Ya migh want to know:
What type boat is Frogwatch using as in motor or sail
WHat size is this unknow vessel and When does the bhoat operate.
WHERE does this boat operate as in 80 degree F lake in Kansas or SF
Bay or Strait of Juan de Fuca or 900 miles west of W 130 line
Who are the passangers as in toddlers, or invalid 80 yo or Skip and
Lydia.
Does the operatrer have any training if so what kind and how
aboutthepassangers?

All will determine what type of emergency equipmnet and stratiges to
use.
But I guess its easier to just toss a bunch of jizz instead of
inquiring first.
Bob

I do not like Lifesling
 

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 07:55:41 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 04:26:08 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:

On Apr 8, 7:48*am, Frogwatch wrote:
I have one but when I consider how it is to be used,
YES, I am paranoid.

After reading all the advice I realized each advisor here neglected to
consider a couple basic quesions before shooitn off their moth.

Ya migh want to know:
What type boat is Frogwatch using as in motor or sail
WHat size is this unknow vessel and When does the bhoat operate.
WHERE does this boat operate as in 80 degree F lake in Kansas or SF
Bay or Strait of Juan de Fuca or 900 miles west of W 130 line
Who are the passangers as in toddlers, or invalid 80 yo or Skip and
Lydia.
Does the operatrer have any training if so what kind and how
aboutthepassangers?

All will determine what type of emergency equipmnet and stratiges to
use.
But I guess its easier to just toss a bunch of jizz instead of
inquiring first.
Bob



Most of us here are quite familiar with all of the elements you
mentioned. Frogwatch has been posting extensively here for years under
a couple of names. We know all to well, the complete list of ships in
his little navy, his sailing area, his areas of interest and
expertise, how each member of his family feels about boats, and his
personality. We didn't just jump in at the last minute with no
background in the subject and plenty of unfounded opinion, as you just
did. :-)

Exactly.

I do not like Lifesling
 

On 13/04/2010 00:23, Capt. JG wrote:
w wrote in message
o.uk...
On 09/04/2010 00:55, Capt. JG wrote:
"Bill wrote in message
...

"Capt. wrote in message
easolutions...
"Don wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 1:27 pm, "Capt. wrote:
wrote in message

...



On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:48:02 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something
to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on
the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach
via
a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new
EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You misunderstand how a Lifesling is supposed to be used. The idea
is to let all of the line out behind the boat and then circle the
person in the water like you were bringing the tow rope to a water
skiier. This is a maneuver that needs to be practiced.

You should really try to find a "Safety at Sea" course in your area.
They typically provide live demonstrations of all sorts of safety
equipment and some very worthwhile discussions by experts.

http://offshore.ussailing.org/SAS/Seminars.htm

Yes, that's what I participated in... a couple of years ago. The
other
good
point, which Wayne mentioned and I'll reinforce, is to get
instruction
and
even more importantly get in lots of practice. It can be fun to do -
if
the
water's warm and it's a nice day - with a volunteer. If it's not a
nice
day,
practice one or more of the regular non-Lifesling techniques, such as
the
Quick Turn (aka Figure 8). You can't practice enough.

--
"j" ganz

I understand the circling bit until the Lifesling gets to the person
but that just seems kinda slow when what you really want to do is get
contact with the person ASAP.
Yes, I do need more practice though.

I believe, in a sailboat, the objective is to approach the victim
while
sailing upwind. You don't want to run him down& finish the job, eh?

Yes. In fact, the object is not really to get to the person ASAP.
Assuming they're wearing a PFD, they're not going to sink. The initial
object of the process is to get yourself and your boat under control.
Then, approach them in a sensible way... from downwind... typically a
close reach, since a close haul give you no ability to point higher
without stalling, and a beam reach is too fast and nearly impossible to
let out the sails enough to stop.

The object even after you've reached the COB is not to "get him out of
the water," but rather to attach the COB to the boat, then retrieve.

The Lifesling cuts the time to get back to the water vs. a more
traditional approach (e.g., Figure 8) and gives the COB something to
grab
that's attached to the boat. Thus, in rough wind/sea state, you don't
have a great of a potential to lose sight of the COB.

Everyone needs more practice. I practice with my private students and
even some charters if they're interested.

It's really one of the essential lessons for sailing instruction. On
the
bay, we typically teach the Fig. 8, since we're interested in teaching
sail trim and boat handling. It's too dangerous in these waters to put
someone in the water. I've done that in the Carib., but not here, save
the seminars previously mentioned.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com




Bad assumption. What if no PFD? You want to get a life ring or a
floatation device to the person so they can stay above water.
Especially
in cold water. Only MOB situation I was in was about 40 years ago and
they guy fell off the boat in to 50 degree water with a heavy coat on
while salmon fishing. Threw him a life ring so he would have some
floatation and kept eyes on him while I instructed the guy at the wheel
where to go. And Lifeslings were recalled for some forgotten reason
about
20 years ago.

It's not a bad assumption, given two factors. First, he pretty much
implied
everyone was wearing one. Second, on my boat I require everyone to wear a
PFD. If you're wearing a PFD, you're going to be floating. The chances of
an
inflatable failing is minimal, as long as it's properly maintained, which
is
a trivial job.

Of course, getting back sooner vs. later is better. But, you can't
compromise the safety of the rest of the crew or the boat by acting
prematurely.

In the case of no PFD, then the options are much more limited. If the
person
is conscious, even in 50 deg water, they're going to have useful
consciousness for 15 to 20 minutes (perhaps more). Throwing something,
perhaps lots of things that float is always a good idea. It sounds like
you
did the right thing.. I take it the person survived.

If the person is unconscious, the options dwindle further. Probably,
they're
going to die without a PFD. Not much can be done except try.

The Lifesling has undergone extensive testing, and the CG approved models
work as advertised.

I don't think they had H%S when I was a kid, but at least I had a duffle
coat..
http://www.ceredigion.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=12585


H%S? Don't know that acronym.

I totally understand that some of you are more interested in typos and
what Skip had for breakfast than old photos.
H&S = Health and Safety. It's all the rage these days over here.

I do not like Lifesling
 

"goofball_star_dot_etal" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 13/04/2010 00:23, Capt. JG wrote:
w wrote in message
o.uk...
On 09/04/2010 00:55, Capt. JG wrote:
"Bill wrote in message
...

"Capt. wrote in message
easolutions...
"Don wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 1:27 pm, "Capt. wrote:
wrote in message

...



On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:48:02 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something
to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with
a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light
line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected
from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on
the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach
via
a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a
ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new
EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You misunderstand how a Lifesling is supposed to be used. The idea
is to let all of the line out behind the boat and then circle the
person in the water like you were bringing the tow rope to a water
skiier. This is a maneuver that needs to be practiced.

You should really try to find a "Safety at Sea" course in your
area.
They typically provide live demonstrations of all sorts of safety
equipment and some very worthwhile discussions by experts.

http://offshore.ussailing.org/SAS/Seminars.htm

Yes, that's what I participated in... a couple of years ago. The
other
good
point, which Wayne mentioned and I'll reinforce, is to get
instruction
and
even more importantly get in lots of practice. It can be fun to
do -
if
the
water's warm and it's a nice day - with a volunteer. If it's not a
nice
day,
practice one or more of the regular non-Lifesling techniques, such
as
the
Quick Turn (aka Figure 8). You can't practice enough.

--
"j" ganz

I understand the circling bit until the Lifesling gets to the person
but that just seems kinda slow when what you really want to do is
get
contact with the person ASAP.
Yes, I do need more practice though.

I believe, in a sailboat, the objective is to approach the victim
while
sailing upwind. You don't want to run him down& finish the job,
eh?

Yes. In fact, the object is not really to get to the person ASAP.
Assuming they're wearing a PFD, they're not going to sink. The
initial
object of the process is to get yourself and your boat under control.
Then, approach them in a sensible way... from downwind... typically a
close reach, since a close haul give you no ability to point higher
without stalling, and a beam reach is too fast and nearly impossible
to
let out the sails enough to stop.

The object even after you've reached the COB is not to "get him out
of
the water," but rather to attach the COB to the boat, then retrieve.

The Lifesling cuts the time to get back to the water vs. a more
traditional approach (e.g., Figure 8) and gives the COB something to
grab
that's attached to the boat. Thus, in rough wind/sea state, you don't
have a great of a potential to lose sight of the COB.

Everyone needs more practice. I practice with my private students and
even some charters if they're interested.

It's really one of the essential lessons for sailing instruction. On
the
bay, we typically teach the Fig. 8, since we're interested in
teaching
sail trim and boat handling. It's too dangerous in these waters to
put
someone in the water. I've done that in the Carib., but not here,
save
the seminars previously mentioned.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com




Bad assumption. What if no PFD? You want to get a life ring or a
floatation device to the person so they can stay above water.
Especially
in cold water. Only MOB situation I was in was about 40 years ago and
they guy fell off the boat in to 50 degree water with a heavy coat on
while salmon fishing. Threw him a life ring so he would have some
floatation and kept eyes on him while I instructed the guy at the
wheel
where to go. And Lifeslings were recalled for some forgotten reason
about
20 years ago.

It's not a bad assumption, given two factors. First, he pretty much
implied
everyone was wearing one. Second, on my boat I require everyone to wear
a
PFD. If you're wearing a PFD, you're going to be floating. The chances
of
an
inflatable failing is minimal, as long as it's properly maintained,
which
is
a trivial job.

Of course, getting back sooner vs. later is better. But, you can't
compromise the safety of the rest of the crew or the boat by acting
prematurely.

In the case of no PFD, then the options are much more limited. If the
person
is conscious, even in 50 deg water, they're going to have useful
consciousness for 15 to 20 minutes (perhaps more). Throwing something,
perhaps lots of things that float is always a good idea. It sounds like
you
did the right thing.. I take it the person survived.

If the person is unconscious, the options dwindle further. Probably,
they're
going to die without a PFD. Not much can be done except try.

The Lifesling has undergone extensive testing, and the CG approved
models
work as advertised.

I don't think they had H%S when I was a kid, but at least I had a duffle
coat..
http://www.ceredigion.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=12585


H%S? Don't know that acronym.

I totally understand that some of you are more interested in typos and
what Skip had for breakfast than old photos.
H&S = Health and Safety. It's all the rage these days over here.


Ah... duh.. sorry. Just didn't make the connection. Actually, I enjoy
reading Skip's travellog. Now if you had typed H7S, I would have gotten it
immediately.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

I do not like Lifesling
 

Bob wrote:
On Apr 8, 7:48 am, wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used,
YES, I am paranoid.

After reading all the advice I realized each advisor here neglected to
consider a couple basic quesions before shooitn off their moth.

Ya migh want to know:
What type boat is Frogwatch using as in motor or sail
WHat size is this unknow vessel and When does the bhoat operate.
WHERE does this boat operate as in 80 degree F lake in Kansas or SF
Bay or Strait of Juan de Fuca or 900 miles west of W 130 line
Who are the passangers as in toddlers, or invalid 80 yo or Skip and
Lydia.
Does the operatrer have any training if so what kind and how
aboutthepassangers?

All will determine what type of emergency equipmnet and stratiges to
use.
But I guess its easier to just toss a bunch of jizz instead of
inquiring first.
Bob




That was painful to read. Come back after you finish school.

I do not like Lifesling
 

Most of us here are quite familiar with all of the elements you
mentioned. Frogwatch has been posting extensively here for years under
a couple of names. We know all to well, the complete list of ships in
his little navy, his sailing area, his areas of interest and
expertise, how each member of his family feels about boats, and his
personality. We didn't just jump in at the last minute with no
background in the subject and plenty of unfounded opinion, as you just
did. :-)-

Im saddened because ive been posting here since 2005 and never got
invited to your little group of buddies... Must be nice part of such a
special little gourp.

I lok at it this way:
THis place does have some great information at times. I use it as an
information source... Thats why its important to add detail to your
post so myself and others can benifit from the discussion. Heck
someone migh search "life slings" and get this post and because of the
total lack of detail continuin searcing for more usable stuff.

In other words if ya just want ot blow kisses up our buddies ass go
for it. If you want to contribute to a useful body of literature try
addign some useful detail.

Then there is SKip...................10,000s words of self induced
gizz enough to gag a texas cheerleader

Wilmington Rexroth
Dell Tec Support
Vernal, UT

I do not like Lifesling
 

I totally understand that some of you are more interested in typos and
what Skip had for breakfast than old photos.
H&S = Health and Safety. It's all the rage these days over here.- Hide quoted text -



HSE = Health, Safety and Enviornment

Pretty much industry standard here.
Robin Rexroth

I do not like Lifesling
 

On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 04:52:08 -0700 (PDT), Bob wrote:


Most of us here are quite familiar with all of the elements you
mentioned. Frogwatch has been posting extensively here for years under
a couple of names. We know all to well, the complete list of ships in
his little navy, his sailing area, his areas of interest and
expertise, how each member of his family feels about boats, and his
personality. We didn't just jump in at the last minute with no
background in the subject and plenty of unfounded opinion, as you just
did. :-)-

Im saddened because ive been posting here since 2005 and never got
invited to your little group of buddies... Must be nice part of such a
special little gourp.

I lok at it this way:
THis place does have some great information at times. I use it as an
information source... Thats why its important to add detail to your
post so myself and others can benifit from the discussion. Heck
someone migh search "life slings" and get this post and because of the
total lack of detail continuin searcing for more usable stuff.

In other words if ya just want ot blow kisses up our buddies ass go
for it. If you want to contribute to a useful body of literature try
addign some useful detail.

Then there is SKip...................10,000s words of self induced
gizz enough to gag a texas cheerleader

Wilmington Rexroth
Dell Tec Support
Vernal, UT

Gosh, Bob, maybe you should have read the whole thread instead of trying to
glean all the information about an individual from one post. If, as you say,
you've been posting 'here' since 2005, then you should be very familiar with
Frogwatch and his various interests. If you feel you're missing out on
information, just ask. Detail will be provided.

To expect a detailed information background in every post on every subject is
getting a little extreme.

--
John H

For a great time, go here first... http://tinyurl.com/ygqxs5v

I do not like Lifesling
 

On 4/15/10 10:19 AM, WaIIy wrote:
On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 04:52:08 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Then there is SKip...................10,000s words of self induced
gizz enough to gag a texas cheerleader

Wilmington Rexroth
Dell Tec Support
Vernal, UT

Yes, there is Skip who is a great writer and gives a wealth of
information to anyone who cares to read his stories.

You are not obligated to read anything Skip writes as a function of
"Dell Tec Support". Spell much ?

Anyway, I have three Dells and will remember to ask who the person is
I'm talking to should I ever need support.

Uhh, that would include you out.




Well, if they are Dells, you'll be speaking to someone on an island off
of Bangladesh when you need support. Good luck.

--
http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

I do not like Lifesling
 

"WaIIy" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 10:46:02 -0400, hk wrote:

On 4/15/10 10:19 AM, WaIIy wrote:
On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 04:52:08 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Then there is SKip...................10,000s words of self induced
gizz enough to gag a texas cheerleader

Wilmington Rexroth
Dell Tec Support
Vernal, UT

Yes, there is Skip who is a great writer and gives a wealth of
information to anyone who cares to read his stories.

You are not obligated to read anything Skip writes as a function of
"Dell Tec Support". Spell much ?

Anyway, I have three Dells and will remember to ask who the person is
I'm talking to should I ever need support.

Uhh, that would include you out.




Well, if they are Dells, you'll be speaking to someone on an island off
of Bangladesh when you need support. Good luck.

Point taken.

If the Dell is bought under a company name, the support is US based.

I do not like Lifesling
 

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 20:44:14 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:




Well, if they are Dells, you'll be speaking to someone on an island off
of Bangladesh when you need support. Good luck.

Point taken.

If the Dell is bought under a company name, the support is US based.


It will still be a Dell
Proprietary parts with ridiculous prices, similar to the PS/2 line
that sunk the IBM PC

I have a Dell laptop I bought about 5 years ago. Other than the power plug
connection solder joint cracking and a broken screen. Not Dell's fault, has
been a good PC. I screwed up the mouse pad cable when I was reassembling
after the power connector resolder, but that was my fault and I use a
wireless mouse with the unit anyway. I think the cable is a fairly generic
4 wire flat cable I may go down to th3 local independent computer service
and see if they have one.

I do not like Lifesling
 

On Apr 16, 1:18*am, wrote:
On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 20:44:14 -0700, "Bill McKee"

wrote:

Well, if they are Dells, you'll be speaking to someone on an island off
of Bangladesh when you need support. Good luck.

Point taken.

If the Dell is bought under a company name, the support is US based.

It will still be a Dell
Proprietary parts with ridiculous prices, similar to the PS/2 line
that sunk the IBM PC

Compaq used to be the WORST when it came to proprietary parts. Office
I worked for (a LONG time ago!) had a 286 Compaq that the modem went
out on. You didn't just go to the store and buy a generic modem card.
I asked why, the service guy said that just about every part in that
computer was proprietary. HP computers used to be the same way.

I do not like Lifesling
 

On Apr 15, 5:10*am, John H wrote:

Gosh, Bob, maybe you should have read the whole thread instead of trying to
glean all the information about an individual from one post.


Geee, john.... i did and still dont know where he sails or what size
boat or its typical passangers maybe i missed somthing



If, as you say,
you've been posting 'here' since 2005, then you should be very familiar with
Frogwatch and his various interests.


wut the **** for. not really that interisted in his family tree.

If you feel you're missing out on
information, just ask. Detail will be provided.

okay detalis pleases.


To expect a detailed information background in every post on every subject is
getting a little extreme.


bnot really. all it takes is i have:

24 foot palstic boat
2 cats ocassional 8 yo and several zolof hazed passangers 50-65 yo
obease resting heart rate of 90bpm yet consider themself strong
swimmers and able sailors.
ya know somthing like that.


rex rexroth


--
John H

For a great time, go here first...http://tinyurl.com/ygqxs5v- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I do not like Lifesling
 

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 05:02:16 -0700 (PDT), Bob wrote:

On Apr 15, 5:10*am, John H wrote:

Gosh, Bob, maybe you should have read the whole thread instead of trying to
glean all the information about an individual from one post.


Geee, john.... i did and still dont know where he sails or what size
boat or its typical passangers maybe i missed somthing



If, as you say,
you've been posting 'here' since 2005, then you should be very familiar with
Frogwatch and his various interests.


wut the **** for. not really that interisted in his family tree.

If you feel you're missing out on
information, just ask. Detail will be provided.

okay detalis pleases.


To expect a detailed information background in every post on every subject is
getting a little extreme.


bnot really. all it takes is i have:

24 foot palstic boat
2 cats ocassional 8 yo and several zolof hazed passangers 50-65 yo
obease resting heart rate of 90bpm yet consider themself strong
swimmers and able sailors.
ya know somthing like that.


rex rexroth


--
John H

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That's great.

But it doesn't tell us whether you sell shoes or not.

--
John H

For a great time, go here first... http://tinyurl.com/ygqxs5v