additional navigation lights.
 

My Marquis has the little Vav. lights on the sides located almost
midships, and nothing on the bow. I really think that's an odd
arrangement but so be it, and I would think that they should actually
be located on the bow so the length of the boat can be juddged at
night.

a couple questions. would it be better to remove them and go with a
bow Nav light? or is it legal to run both green/red on bow and sides
at the same time?

I'm opting for putting a Nav. llight on the bow myself.

additional navigation lights.
 

"Tim" wrote in message
...
My Marquis has the little Vav. lights on the sides located almost
midships, and nothing on the bow. I really think that's an odd
arrangement but so be it, and I would think that they should actually
be located on the bow so the length of the boat can be juddged at
night.

a couple questions. would it be better to remove them and go with a
bow Nav light? or is it legal to run both green/red on bow and sides
at the same time?

I'm opting for putting a Nav. llight on the bow myself.


No expert here, but I'm betting that you can only have one set that's
operating at a time. You could check the rules and/or get in touch with the
Coast Guard.

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rotr_online.htm

--
Nom=de=Plume

additional navigation lights.
 

On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 20:34:34 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

My Marquis has the little Vav. lights on the sides located almost
midships, and nothing on the bow. I really think that's an odd
arrangement but so be it, and I would think that they should actually
be located on the bow so the length of the boat can be juddged at
night.

a couple questions. would it be better to remove them and go with a
bow Nav light? or is it legal to run both green/red on bow and sides
at the same time?

I'm opting for putting a Nav. llight on the bow myself.

Actually having them on the sides gives other boats a better picture
of what they are dealing with as long as your projected angles of
visibility are more or less correct. I'd leave them alone.

The best nav light of all is a tri color located as high up as you can
get it, easy for sailboats, much more difficult for power boats. It
is very important to be seen. Height and brightness are your friends
in that respect.

additional navigation lights.
 

On Mar 20, 11:04*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 20:34:34 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

My Marquis has the little Vav. lights on the sides located almost
midships, and nothing on the bow. I really think that's an odd
arrangement but so be it, and I would think that they should actually
be located on the bow so the length of the boat can be juddged at
night.

a couple questions. would it be better to remove them and go with a
bow Nav light? or is it legal to run both green/red on bow and sides
at the same time?

I'm opting for putting a Nav. llight on the bow myself.

Your existing lights are perfectly legal. Most ships have their nav
lights mounted on the superstructure.

I would imagine so, but to me it doesn't make sense to only be able to
judge half the boats length by having a 23' boat look like it's only
12.

additional navigation lights.
 

"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Mar 20, 11:04 pm, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 20:34:34 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

My Marquis has the little Vav. lights on the sides located almost
midships, and nothing on the bow. I really think that's an odd
arrangement but so be it, and I would think that they should actually
be located on the bow so the length of the boat can be juddged at
night.

a couple questions. would it be better to remove them and go with a
bow Nav light? or is it legal to run both green/red on bow and sides
at the same time?

I'm opting for putting a Nav. llight on the bow myself.

Your existing lights are perfectly legal. Most ships have their nav
lights mounted on the superstructure.

I would imagine so, but to me it doesn't make sense to only be able to
judge half the boats length by having a 23' boat look like it's only
12.

The boat's length has nothing to do with it. It's a matter of knowing the
orientation of the boat, it's rough heading, and what you need to do (or not
do) to avoid a collision. Your nav lights are perfectly suited for that
purpose.

--Mike

additional navigation lights.
 

In article ,
says...

On Mar 20, 11:04*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 20:34:34 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

My Marquis has the little Vav. lights on the sides located almost
midships, and nothing on the bow. I really think that's an odd
arrangement but so be it, and I would think that they should actually
be located on the bow so the length of the boat can be juddged at
night.

a couple questions. would it be better to remove them and go with a
bow Nav light? or is it legal to run both green/red on bow and sides
at the same time?

I'm opting for putting a Nav. llight on the bow myself.

Your existing lights are perfectly legal. Most ships have their nav
lights mounted on the superstructure.

I would imagine so, but to me it doesn't make sense to only be able to
judge half the boats length by having a 23' boat look like it's only
12.

I don't think it's as easy to judge length at night, despite where the lights
are located.

Scotty

--
For a great time, go here first... http://tinyurl.com/ygqxs5v

additional navigation lights.
 

On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 05:01:38 -0400, I am Tosk
wrote:

I would imagine so, but to me it doesn't make sense to only be able to
judge half the boats length by having a 23' boat look like it's only
12.

I don't think it's as easy to judge length at night, despite where the lights
are located.

Judging length is actually not that important except with very large
boats like freighters, or tug boats pulling a barge. One of the best
things a small boat can do to improve its visibility is to install a
radar reflector mounted as high off the water as possible.

http://www.defender.com/ProductDisplay?id=82874

Mounting can be as simple as suspending from a boat hook held in a
fishing rod holder.

additional navigation lights.
 

The nav rules read that the red & green lights are to be visible from
"dead ahead to 2 points abaft the port and starboard beam" . So your
lights quailfy and are legal. You didn't mention a white light, but
that is to be visible in a 32 point arc. Yours is probably over the
windshield or at the stern.

Happy boating, Norm (boy, do I miss it)

additional navigation lights.
 

On Mar 21, 9:39*am, (N.L. Eckert) wrote:
The nav rules read that the red & green lights are to be visible from
"dead ahead to *2 points abaft the port and starboard beam" . *So your
lights quailfy and are legal. *You didn't mention a white light, but
that is to be visible *in a *32 point arc. Yours is probably over the
windshield or at the stern.

Happy boating, *Norm *(boy, do I miss it)

Thanks for all the great advice. I suppose I was concerned abotu using
Nav. lights on the bow instead of the sides, is because that's what
I'm used to seeing.

My 27' Chris Craft had a bow light, and this is the first boat I've
owned that they were on the sides.

the light on the aft is not suspended like what you would think on a
pole, but is in the middle of the stern. It kind of reminds you of a
back up light if anything else.

additional navigation lights.
 

On Mar 21, 6:29*am, W1TEF wrote:
On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 20:34:34 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

My Marquis has the little Vav. lights on the sides located almost
midships, and nothing on the bow. I really think that's an odd
arrangement but so be it, and I would think that they should actually
be located on the bow so the length of the boat can be juddged at
night.

a couple questions. would it be better to remove them and go with a
bow Nav light? or is it legal to run both green/red on bow and sides
at the same time?

I'm opting for putting a Nav. llight on the bow myself.

Two sets of nav. lights ain't legal.

As to positioning, they are fine where they are. *Nav lights aren't
used to judge length, but position and bearing.

Pick up a copy of the Inland/International navigation rules or read
them online - you can also download a copy in PDF format I believe.

http://www.amazon.com/Navigation-Rul.../dp/0939837498

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rotr_online.htm

Thanks for those links, Tom. I will be doing some studying. I suppose
the reason I'm asking all these questions about Nav. Lights is I want
to update my boat to better standards and make it as safe as I can.

additional navigation lights.
 

On Mar 21, 5:30*am, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 05:01:38 -0400, I am Tosk

wrote:
I would imagine so, but to me it doesn't make sense to only be able to
judge half the boats length by having a 23' boat look like it's only
12.

I don't think it's as easy to judge length at night, despite where the lights
are located.

Judging length is actually not that important except with very large
boats like freighters, or tug boats pulling a barge. *One of the best
things a small boat can do to improve its visibility is to install a
radar reflector mounted as high off the water as possible.

http://www.defender.com/ProductDisplay?id=82874

Mounting can be as simple as suspending from a boat hook held in a
fishing *rod holder.

That is taken into consideration as well, Wayne. Thanks! I also have
a clip-on white light that is fairly light and battery operated, and
can be suspended from the windshield if need be. The D-batteries are
down low so there is little weight up top. and it's actually about 3
ft. long so that would be at least 3 ft. above the windshield.

additional navigation lights.
 

"W1TEF" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 20:34:34 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

My Marquis has the little Vav. lights on the sides located almost
midships, and nothing on the bow. I really think that's an odd
arrangement but so be it, and I would think that they should actually
be located on the bow so the length of the boat can be juddged at
night.

a couple questions. would it be better to remove them and go with a
bow Nav light? or is it legal to run both green/red on bow and sides
at the same time?

I'm opting for putting a Nav. llight on the bow myself.

Two sets of nav lights ain't legal.

As to positioning, they are fine where they are. Nav lights aren't
used to judge length, but position and bearing.

Pick up a copy of the Inland/International navigation rules or read
them online - you can also download a copy in PDF format I believe.

http://www.amazon.com/Navigation-Rul.../dp/0939837498

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rotr_online.htm


I bet they are if you use them at the same time. I don't see any mention of
it on the uscg.gov link, but that doesn't mean it's ok. Do you have
something you can point to that clarifies?

--
Nom=de=Plume

additional navigation lights.
 

"mgg" wrote in message
...


"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Mar 20, 11:04 pm, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 20:34:34 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

My Marquis has the little Vav. lights on the sides located almost
midships, and nothing on the bow. I really think that's an odd
arrangement but so be it, and I would think that they should actually
be located on the bow so the length of the boat can be juddged at
night.

a couple questions. would it be better to remove them and go with a
bow Nav light? or is it legal to run both green/red on bow and sides
at the same time?

I'm opting for putting a Nav. llight on the bow myself.

Your existing lights are perfectly legal. Most ships have their nav
lights mounted on the superstructure.

I would imagine so, but to me it doesn't make sense to only be able to
judge half the boats length by having a 23' boat look like it's only
12.

The boat's length has nothing to do with it. It's a matter of knowing the
orientation of the boat, it's rough heading, and what you need to do (or
not do) to avoid a collision. Your nav lights are perfectly suited for
that purpose.

--Mike

If they are on the bow, then someone is going to figure it is a small skiff.

additional navigation lights.
 

"CalifBill" wrote in message
...

"mgg" wrote in message
...


"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Mar 20, 11:04 pm, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 20:34:34 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

My Marquis has the little Vav. lights on the sides located almost
midships, and nothing on the bow. I really think that's an odd
arrangement but so be it, and I would think that they should actually
be located on the bow so the length of the boat can be juddged at
night.

a couple questions. would it be better to remove them and go with a
bow Nav light? or is it legal to run both green/red on bow and sides
at the same time?

I'm opting for putting a Nav. llight on the bow myself.

Your existing lights are perfectly legal. Most ships have their nav
lights mounted on the superstructure.

I would imagine so, but to me it doesn't make sense to only be able to
judge half the boats length by having a 23' boat look like it's only
12.

The boat's length has nothing to do with it. It's a matter of knowing the
orientation of the boat, it's rough heading, and what you need to do (or
not do) to avoid a collision. Your nav lights are perfectly suited for
that purpose.

--Mike

If they are on the bow, then someone is going to figure it is a small
skiff.

Aren't most nav lights on or near the bow of most boats???

--
Nom=de=Plume

additional navigation lights.
 

On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 12:06:43 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Aren't most nav lights on or near the bow of most boats???

No.

additional navigation lights.
 

On Mar 21, 12:42*pm, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:54:04 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:



On Mar 21, 5:30*am, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 05:01:38 -0400, I am Tosk

wrote:
I would imagine so, but to me it doesn't make sense to only be able to
judge half the boats length by having a 23' boat look like it's only
12.

I don't think it's as easy to judge length at night, despite where the lights
are located.

Judging length is actually not that important except with very large
boats like freighters, or tug boats pulling a barge. *One of the best
things a small boat can do to improve its visibility is to install a
radar reflector mounted as high off the water as possible.

http://www.defender.com/ProductDisplay?id=82874

Mounting can be as simple as suspending from a boat hook held in a
fishing *rod holder.

That is taken into consideration as well, Wayne. Thanks! *I also have
a clip-on white light that is fairly light and battery operated, *and
can be suspended from *the windshield if need be. The D-batteries are
down low so there is little weight up top. and it's actually about 3
ft. long so that would be at least 3 ft. above the windshield.

One of the most important things about nav lights, or any other lights
is that you should not be able to see them from the helm. Those folks
with that big "all around" white light on the stern are not really
serious about going out at night. You should have a stern light that
points back and a mast head light that points side and forward but not
in the helmsman's line of sight. It should be shielded below and not
reflected off the boat forward of the helm.
Otherwise it destroys your night vision and prompts people to want
"headlights" that destroy everyone elses night vision (besides being
illegal)
If you actually boat anywhere near a big population center it won't
really get dark at night anyway. Around the Estero Bay you can see
just fine as soon as you let your eyes get used to the dark. You
certainly can see something 100' away better than you would with a
spotlight. The spotlight only lights up the particular thing you are
looking at, not the thing you weren't expecting a few degrees abeam of
your light.

K. Now this is all starting to make sense to me. Forgive my
persistence, because ignorance isn't bliss.

additional navigation lights.
 

On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:49:22 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

Pick up a copy of the Inland/International navigation rules or read
them online - you can also download a copy in PDF format I believe.

http://www.amazon.com/Navigation-Rul.../dp/0939837498

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rotr_online.htm

Thanks for those links, Tom. I will be doing some studying. I suppose
the reason I'm asking all these questions about Nav. Lights is I want
to update my boat to better standards and make it as safe as I can.

I'd leave the lights alone for now as long as they are working OK
since there are probably other things that need a look.

Running at night is very tricky even for the experienced, and should
really be avoided when possible. Take it real slow, especially the
first few times. Everything that looks familiar during daylight
looks entirely different in the dark, and distances are much more
difficult to judge accurately.

Back in my sailboat days I ran literally thousands of miles in the
dark with no incidents and no radar but with a few close calls, some
way too close for comfort. Now that I've gotten used to running with
radar at night I would never operate without it if at all possible.

Even radar is not perfect however. Off the coast of the Dominican
Republic we were surprised several times by small wooden fishing
skiffs operating 12 or more miles offshore with no lights and no radar
image at all. They are totally invisible until you are almost on
them, even in daylight. They would see us however and either yell or
shine a light at us, not a really satisfactory way of navigating.
That's one of my reasons for recommending a good radar reflector.

additional navigation lights.
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 12:06:43 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Aren't most nav lights on or near the bow of most boats???

No.


Really? Just about every sailboat I've seen at marina have bow lights and a
stern light. Some have lights at the top of the mast also. I think I've seen
the same at the bow for most powerboats, but I didn't really look.

--
Nom=de=Plume

additional navigation lights.
 

On 3/21/10 5:27 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 12:06:43 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Aren't most nav lights on or near the bow of most boats???

No.


Really? Just about every sailboat I've seen at marina have bow lights and a
stern light. Some have lights at the top of the mast also. I think I've seen
the same at the bow for most powerboats, but I didn't really look.



W'hine's counted all the boats and those are his results.

--


If the X-MimeOLE "header" doesn't say:

Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.8)
Gecko/20100227 Thunderbird/3.0.3 (or higher)

then it isn't me, it's an ID spoofer.

additional navigation lights.
 

On Mar 21, 4:21*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:49:22 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

Pick up a copy of the Inland/International navigation rules or read
them online - you can also download a copy in PDF format I believe.

http://www.amazon.com/Navigation-Rul.../dp/0939837498

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rotr_online.htm

Thanks for those links, Tom. I will be doing some studying. I suppose
the reason I'm asking all these questions about Nav. Lights is I want
to update my boat *to better standards and make it as safe as I can.

I'd leave the lights alone for now as long as they are working OK
since there are probably other things that need a look. *

Running at night is very tricky even for the experienced, and should
really be avoided when possible. *Take it real slow, especially the
first few times. * Everything that looks familiar during daylight
looks entirely different in the dark, and distances are much more
difficult to judge accurately.

Back in my sailboat days I ran literally thousands of miles in the
dark with no incidents and no radar but with a few close calls, some
way too close for comfort. *Now that I've gotten used to running with
radar at night I would never operate without it if at all possible. *

Even radar is not perfect however. *Off the coast of the Dominican
Republic we were surprised several times by small wooden fishing
skiffs operating 12 or more miles offshore with no lights and no radar
image at all. *They are totally invisible until you are almost on
them, even in daylight. *They would see us however and either yell or
shine a light at us, not a really satisfactory way of navigating.
That's one of my reasons for recommending a good radar reflector.
Well, the lights arn't a big issue to mount or detach, so it's going
into the 'things--to-do-list...


Now I understand why you mentioned the radar deflector, Wayne. Not
that it's some whirlie gig but it actually helps others who run radar
to detect you.

Thanks!

additional navigation lights.
 

nom=de=plume wrote:
"CalifBill" wrote in message
...
"mgg" wrote in message
...

"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Mar 20, 11:04 pm, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 20:34:34 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

My Marquis has the little Vav. lights on the sides located almost
midships, and nothing on the bow. I really think that's an odd
arrangement but so be it, and I would think that they should actually
be located on the bow so the length of the boat can be juddged at
night.
a couple questions. would it be better to remove them and go with a
bow Nav light? or is it legal to run both green/red on bow and sides
at the same time?
I'm opting for putting a Nav. llight on the bow myself.
Your existing lights are perfectly legal. Most ships have their nav
lights mounted on the superstructure.
I would imagine so, but to me it doesn't make sense to only be able to
judge half the boats length by having a 23' boat look like it's only
12.
The boat's length has nothing to do with it. It's a matter of knowing the
orientation of the boat, it's rough heading, and what you need to do (or
not do) to avoid a collision. Your nav lights are perfectly suited for
that purpose.

--Mike
If they are on the bow, then someone is going to figure it is a small
skiff.

Aren't most nav lights on or near the bow of most boats???


no

additional navigation lights.
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 12:06:43 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Aren't most nav lights on or near the bow of most boats???

No.


All the ones in the marina have them at the bow. I don't know about all the
possible configurations of powerboats, but the ones I recall had them at the
bow. So, where are you getting this claim?

--
Nom=de=Plume

additional navigation lights.
 

On Mar 21, 11:42*am, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:54:04 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:





On Mar 21, 5:30*am, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 05:01:38 -0400, I am Tosk

wrote:
I would imagine so, but to me it doesn't make sense to only be able to
judge half the boats length by having a 23' boat look like it's only
12.

I don't think it's as easy to judge length at night, despite where the lights
are located.

Judging length is actually not that important except with very large
boats like freighters, or tug boats pulling a barge. *One of the best
things a small boat can do to improve its visibility is to install a
radar reflector mounted as high off the water as possible.

http://www.defender.com/ProductDisplay?id=82874

Mounting can be as simple as suspending from a boat hook held in a
fishing *rod holder.

That is taken into consideration as well, Wayne. Thanks! *I also have
a clip-on white light that is fairly light and battery operated, *and
can be suspended from *the windshield if need be. The D-batteries are
down low so there is little weight up top. and it's actually about 3
ft. long so that would be at least 3 ft. above the windshield.

One of the most important things about nav lights, or any other lights
is that you should not be able to see them from the helm. Those folks
with that big "all around" white light on the stern are not really
serious about going out at night. You should have a stern light that
points back and a mast head light that points side and forward but not
in the helmsman's line of sight. It should be shielded below and not
reflected off the boat forward of the helm.
Otherwise it destroys your night vision and prompts people to want
"headlights" that destroy everyone elses night vision (besides being
illegal)
If you actually boat anywhere near a big population center it won't
really get dark at night anyway. Around the Estero Bay you can see
just fine as soon as you let your eyes get used to the dark. You
certainly can see something 100' away better than you would with a
spotlight. The spotlight only lights up the particular thing you are
looking at, not the thing you weren't expecting a few degrees abeam of
your light.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Pardner, I see what you're saying now...

http://content.answers.com/main/cont...g/f0196-01.jpg

additional navigation lights.
 

On Mar 21, 10:45*am, Tim wrote:


the light on the aft is not suspended like what you would think on a
pole, but is in the middle of the stern. It kind of reminds you of a
back up light if anything else.

http://bestvaluexpress.com/images/uploads/33077.gif

additional navigation lights.
 

On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 06:30:50 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 05:01:38 -0400, I am Tosk
wrote:

I would imagine so, but to me it doesn't make sense to only be able to
judge half the boats length by having a 23' boat look like it's only
12.

I don't think it's as easy to judge length at night, despite where the lights
are located.

Judging length is actually not that important except with very large
boats like freighters, or tug boats pulling a barge. One of the best
things a small boat can do to improve its visibility is to install a
radar reflector mounted as high off the water as possible.

http://www.defender.com/ProductDisplay?id=82874

Mounting can be as simple as suspending from a boat hook held in a
fishing rod holder.

Another reason these $5 million dollar boats should have rod holders. I knew it.
--
John H

For a great time, go here first... http://tinyurl.com/ygqxs5v

additional navigation lights.
 

On Mar 21, 8:39*am, (N.L. Eckert) wrote:
The nav rules read that the red & green lights are to be visible from
"dead ahead to *2 points abaft the port and starboard beam" . *So your
lights quailfy and are legal. *You didn't mention a white light, but
that is to be visible *in a *32 point arc. Yours is probably over the
windshield or at the stern.

Happy boating, *Norm *(boy, do I miss it)

Thanks Norm. I would suppose my set up would be described like this w/
exception of the 'radar tower' light

http://www.safeboating.org.au/images...ure%20shot.jpg

additional navigation lights.
 

the light on the aft is not suspended like what you would think on a
pole, but is in the middle of the stern. It kind of reminds you of a
back up light if anything else.


Based on that nugget of information, it would appear that your boat is lit
under international rules versus inland rules. That means there is a
companion to the stern light you describe. There should be a forward-facing
white light on a pole that plugs into a socket of some sort, probably
located on your upper windshield frame. It could also be a light on a pole
that is permanently attached, but can be folded down. This forward facing
white light, combined with the stern light on the transom combine to satisfy
the 32 points of required coverage. Suggest you focus your efforts on
finding that other white light (unless you have it and just failed to
mention it) rather than the worrying about the red and green lights, which
are just fine where they are.

additional navigation lights.
 

On Mar 21, 3:21*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:49:22 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

Pick up a copy of the Inland/International navigation rules or read
them online - you can also download a copy in PDF format I believe.

http://www.amazon.com/Navigation-Rul.../dp/0939837498

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rotr_online.htm

Thanks for those links, Tom. I will be doing some studying. I suppose
the reason I'm asking all these questions about Nav. Lights is I want
to update my boat *to better standards and make it as safe as I can.

I'd leave the lights alone for now as long as they are working OK
since there are probably other things that need a look. *

Running at night is very tricky even for the experienced, and should
really be avoided when possible. *Take it real slow, especially the
first few times. * Everything that looks familiar during daylight
looks entirely different in the dark, and distances are much more
difficult to judge accurately.

Back in my sailboat days I ran literally thousands of miles in the
dark with no incidents and no radar but with a few close calls, some
way too close for comfort. *Now that I've gotten used to running with
radar at night I would never operate without it if at all possible. *

Even radar is not perfect however. *Off the coast of the Dominican
Republic we were surprised several times by small wooden fishing
skiffs operating 12 or more miles offshore with no lights and no radar
image at all. *They are totally invisible until you are almost on
them, even in daylight. *They would see us however and either yell or
shine a light at us, not a really satisfactory way of navigating.
That's one of my reasons for recommending a good radar reflector.

Wayne, I don't want to run at night, even on my wide Carlyle Lake. And
I dont' plan to, but I wan't my boat to be set up better'n spec.

additional navigation lights.
 

On Mar 21, 7:42*pm, John H wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 06:30:50 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:





On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 05:01:38 -0400, I am Tosk
wrote:

I would imagine so, but to me it doesn't make sense to only be able to
judge half the boats length by having a 23' boat look like it's only
12.

I don't think it's as easy to judge length at night, despite where the lights
are located.

Judging length is actually not that important except with very large
boats like freighters, or tug boats pulling a barge. *One of the best
things a small boat can do to improve its visibility is to install a
radar reflector mounted as high off the water as possible.

http://www.defender.com/ProductDisplay?id=82874

Mounting can be as simple as suspending from a boat hook held in a
fishing *rod holder.

Another reason these $5 million dollar boats should have rod holders. I knew it.
--
John H

For a great time, go here first...http://tinyurl.com/ygqxs5v- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

John, If you bump up to billion dollar boats, they come with rod
holders as standard equipment!

http://armchairhawaii.com/Attraction...eship/guns.jpg

additional navigation lights.
 

In article ced8cd5d-d10e-4792-8c2a-
, says...

On Mar 21, 3:21*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:49:22 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

Pick up a copy of the Inland/International navigation rules or read
them online - you can also download a copy in PDF format I believe.

http://www.amazon.com/Navigation-Rul.../dp/0939837498

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rotr_online.htm

Thanks for those links, Tom. I will be doing some studying. I suppose
the reason I'm asking all these questions about Nav. Lights is I want
to update my boat *to better standards and make it as safe as I can.

I'd leave the lights alone for now as long as they are working OK
since there are probably other things that need a look. *

Running at night is very tricky even for the experienced, and should
really be avoided when possible. *Take it real slow, especially the
first few times. * Everything that looks familiar during daylight
looks entirely different in the dark, and distances are much more
difficult to judge accurately.

Back in my sailboat days I ran literally thousands of miles in the
dark with no incidents and no radar but with a few close calls, some
way too close for comfort. *Now that I've gotten used to running with
radar at night I would never operate without it if at all possible. *

Even radar is not perfect however. *Off the coast of the Dominican
Republic we were surprised several times by small wooden fishing
skiffs operating 12 or more miles offshore with no lights and no
radatr
image at all. *They are totally invisible until you are almost on
them, even in daylight. *They would see us however and either yell or
shine a light at us, not a really satisfactory way of navigating.
That's one of my reasons for recommending a good radar reflector.

Wayne, I don't want to run at night, even on my wide Carlyle Lake. And
I dont' plan to, but I wan't my boat to be set up better'n spec.

Oh man, being out at night on an open area is awesome. Make sure your
lights are set up right like they said so you don't see them from the
cockpit and they don't reflect off of anything back at you. Then keep
the radio off, and always keep the big spotlight moving. If you have two
sets of eyes, and two lights, it's even better. Anchored is a bit more
complicated but if you set yourself right and keep alert, you are
usually ok. Again, I wouldn't do it without a couple of those million
candle power lights, hand held and moving around a lot.

Scotty

--
For a great time, go here first... http://tinyurl.com/ygqxs5v

additional navigation lights.
 

On Mar 21, 7:45*pm, "RG" wrote:
the light on the aft is not suspended like what you would think on a
pole, but is in the middle of the stern. It kind of reminds you of a
back up light if anything else.

Based on that nugget of information, it would appear that your boat is lit
under international rules versus inland rules. *That means there is a
companion to the stern light you describe. *There should be a forward-facing
white light on a pole that plugs into a socket of some sort, probably
located on your upper windshield frame. *It could also be a light on a pole
that is permanently attached, but can be folded down. *This forward facing
white light, combined with the stern light on the transom combine to satisfy
the 32 points of required coverage. *Suggest you focus your efforts on
finding that other white light (unless you have it and just failed to
mention it) rather than the worrying about the red and green lights, which
are just fine where they are.

Thanks! I think I remember an un-used socket of some sort up around
the windshield area.

This boat was origionally used on Lake Erie and the people fished a
lot.

Could it turely be this boat was set for int'l specs? Odd for a 23
ft. boat, though.

additional navigation lights.
 

Could it turely be this boat was set for int'l specs? Odd for a 23
ft. boat, though.

It's not odd at all. That's about the size of boat where international
lighting starts to become very common. It has nothing to do with where the
boat was manufactured or where it is used. Domestic manufacturers will use
the international lighting scheme on boats that size and above simply
because it is the proper choice for larger vessels. It's also the reason
your port and starboard lights are mounted where they are and not as a small
combo light on the bow. You really need to buy a copy of Chapman's and
study it. Seriously.

additional navigation lights.
 

In article ,
says...

In article ced8cd5d-d10e-4792-8c2a-
, says...

On Mar 21, 3:21*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:49:22 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

Pick up a copy of the Inland/International navigation rules or read
them online - you can also download a copy in PDF format I believe.

http://www.amazon.com/Navigation-Rul.../dp/0939837498

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rotr_online.htm

Thanks for those links, Tom. I will be doing some studying. I suppose
the reason I'm asking all these questions about Nav. Lights is I want
to update my boat *to better standards and make it as safe as I can.

I'd leave the lights alone for now as long as they are working OK
since there are probably other things that need a look. *

Running at night is very tricky even for the experienced, and should
really be avoided when possible. *Take it real slow, especially the
first few times. * Everything that looks familiar during daylight
looks entirely different in the dark, and distances are much more
difficult to judge accurately.

Back in my sailboat days I ran literally thousands of miles in the
dark with no incidents and no radar but with a few close calls, some
way too close for comfort. *Now that I've gotten used to running with
radar at night I would never operate without it if at all possible. *

Even radar is not perfect however. *Off the coast of the Dominican
Republic we were surprised several times by small wooden fishing
skiffs operating 12 or more miles offshore with no lights and no
radatr
image at all. *They are totally invisible until you are almost on
them, even in daylight. *They would see us however and either yell or
shine a light at us, not a really satisfactory way of navigating.
That's one of my reasons for recommending a good radar reflector.

Wayne, I don't want to run at night, even on my wide Carlyle Lake. And
I dont' plan to, but I wan't my boat to be set up better'n spec.

Oh man, being out at night on an open area is awesome. Make sure your
lights are set up right like they said so you don't see them from the
cockpit and they don't reflect off of anything back at you. Then keep
the radio off, and always keep the big spotlight moving. If you have two
sets of eyes, and two lights, it's even better. Anchored is a bit more
complicated but if you set yourself right and keep alert, you are
usually ok. Again, I wouldn't do it without a couple of those million
candle power lights, hand held and moving around a lot.

Scotty

I should note that when I say keep the radio off, I don't mean
communication radio, I mean keep the tunes off and pay attention to what
is around you. One thing I learned was not to necessarily look out for
other boats, but look up too! One day I saw this star moving across the
sky and realized it was the top light of a tug, moving a huge barge
right at me. yikes.

Scotty

--
For a great time, go here first... http://tinyurl.com/ygqxs5v

additional navigation lights.
 

On Mar 21, 8:54*pm, I am Tosk wrote:
In article ced8cd5d-d10e-4792-8c2a-
, says...





On Mar 21, 3:21*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:49:22 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

Pick up a copy of the Inland/International navigation rules or read
them online - you can also download a copy in PDF format I believe..

http://www.amazon.com/Navigation-Rul.../dp/0939837498

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rotr_online.htm

Thanks for those links, Tom. I will be doing some studying. I suppose
the reason I'm asking all these questions about Nav. Lights is I want
to update my boat *to better standards and make it as safe as I can.

additional navigation lights.
 

In article 9020e94a-088d-4c28-8c27-cc99cbe7b610@
15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com, says...

On Mar 21, 8:54*pm, I am Tosk wrote:
In article ced8cd5d-d10e-4792-8c2a-
, says...





On Mar 21, 3:21*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:49:22 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

Pick up a copy of the Inland/International navigation rules or read
them online - you can also download a copy in PDF format I believe.

http://www.amazon.com/Navigation-Rul.../dp/0939837498

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rotr_online.htm

Thanks for those links, Tom. I will be doing some studying. I suppose
the reason I'm asking all these questions about Nav. Lights is I want
to update my boat *to better standards and make it as safe as I can.

I'd leave the lights alone for now as long as they are working OK
since there are probably other things that need a look. *

Running at night is very tricky even for the experienced, and should
really be avoided when possible. *Take it real slow, especially the
first few times. * Everything that looks familiar during daylight
looks entirely different in the dark, and distances are much more
difficult to judge accurately.

Back in my sailboat days I ran literally thousands of miles in the
dark with no incidents and no radar but with a few close calls, some
way too close for comfort. *Now that I've gotten used to running with
radar at night I would never operate without it if at all possible. *

Even radar is not perfect however. *Off the coast of the Dominican
Republic we were surprised several times by small wooden fishing
skiffs operating 12 or more miles offshore with no lights and no
radatr
image at all. *They are totally invisible until you are almost on
them, even in daylight. *They would see us however and either yell or
shine a light at us, not a really satisfactory way of navigating.
That's one of my reasons for recommending a good radar reflector.

Wayne, I don't want to run at night, even on my wide Carlyle Lake. And
I dont' plan to, but I wan't my boat to be set up better'n spec.

Oh man, being out at night on an open area is awesome. Make sure your
lights are set up right like they said so you don't see them from the
cockpit and they don't reflect off of anything back at you. Then keep
the radio off, and always keep the big spotlight moving. If you have two
sets of eyes, and two lights, it's even better. Anchored is a bit more
complicated but if you set yourself right and keep alert, you are
usually ok. Again, I wouldn't do it without a couple of those million
candle power lights, hand held and moving around a lot.

Scotty

--
For a great time, go here first...http://tinyurl.com/ygqxs5v

I have a 3 mil. cp. light that on the lake when it's late and dark
especially with no moon, that I will turn on occasionally and do a
look around but I think like Gregg said, that could be frowned upon.
And I don't run break-neck speed either.

Yeah, I am very strict with the kids about the light. They are not to
let it shine or reflect into anybody s yard, home, or boat unless you
are particularly trying to get their attention.

Scotty

--
For a great time, go here first... http://tinyurl.com/ygqxs5v

additional navigation lights.
 

On Mar 21, 9:03*pm, "RG" wrote:
Could it turely be this boat was set for int'l specs? *Odd for a 23
ft. boat, though.

It's not odd at all. *That's about the size of boat where international
lighting starts to become very common. *It has nothing to do with where the
boat was manufactured or where it is used. *Domestic manufacturers will use
the international lighting scheme on boats that size and above simply
because it is the proper choice for larger vessels. *It's also the reason
your port and starboard lights are mounted where they are and not as a small
combo light on the bow. *You really need to buy a copy of Chapman's and
study it. *Seriously.

I'm looking into it, man. Seriously.

additional navigation lights.
 

On 3/21/10 10:46 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 18:09:47 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

All the ones in the marina have them at the bow.

Then you are at a marina with nothing but small boats.

What an ass you are, w'hine.

--


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Gecko/20100227 Thunderbird/3.0.3 (or higher)

then it isn't me, it's an ID spoofer.

additional navigation lights.
 

On 3/21/10 11:23 PM, I am Tosk wrote:
In ,
says...

On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 21:54:11 -0400, I am Tosk
wrote:

Again, I wouldn't do it without a couple of those million
candle power lights, hand held and moving around a lot.

Sound advice for ruining your night vision.

Hrummmph...snort a lot depends on where you boat. I am in smaller,
closer water than most here. Most times when we are moving at night it's
in skinny water, by oar, with one hanging off the bow with a light and
net looking for blue crabs. Don't get all snooty on me here. All of the
other traffic in the area will be outfitted similarly in most cases.

Scotty


Liar. You don't boat...and if you are looking for crabs, just check your
underwear.


--


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then it isn't me, it's an ID spoofer.

additional navigation lights.
 

On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 06:12:40 -0400, W1TEF
wrote:

Chapman's is a great investment for anyone who is even remotely
interested in boats. Hopefully that includes everyone in this group
and I know it applies to Tim. I got my first copy sometime back in
the early 70s and still refer to it once in a while.

I have two copies of "American Practical Navigator" - one published in
1914 and the latest that has all the more modern changes. The
differences between the two are significant.

My Paternal Grandfather had a copy of "The New American Practical
Navigator" which was the book that Bowditch's AMP is based on. It was
written in 1802. It now resides in the Peabody Museum in Salem, MA.

Personally, Chapman's is great for all around boating, but Bowditch is
the Master Course. :)

Do you have a copy of Dutton's also? My copy dates back to the 70s or
80s. I believe it was the official navigation text at the the US
Naval Academy at that time but I always found Bowditch more useful for
most things. Dutton's had information on electronic navigation but
that's way out of date at this point.

additional navigation lights.
 

On 3/22/10 7:43 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 06:12:40 -0400,
wrote:

Chapman's is a great investment for anyone who is even remotely
interested in boats. Hopefully that includes everyone in this group
and I know it applies to Tim. I got my first copy sometime back in
the early 70s and still refer to it once in a while.

I have two copies of "American Practical Navigator" - one published in
1914 and the latest that has all the more modern changes. The
differences between the two are significant.

My Paternal Grandfather had a copy of "The New American Practical
Navigator" which was the book that Bowditch's AMP is based on. It was
written in 1802. It now resides in the Peabody Museum in Salem, MA.

Personally, Chapman's is great for all around boating, but Bowditch is
the Master Course. :)

Do you have a copy of Dutton's also? My copy dates back to the 70s or
80s. I believe it was the official navigation text at the the US
Naval Academy at that time but I always found Bowditch more useful for
most things. Dutton's had information on electronic navigation but
that's way out of date at this point.



snerk

--


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Gecko/20100227 Thunderbird/3.0.3 (or higher)

then it isn't me, it's an ID spoofer.