On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 18:52:26 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:

On Mar 21, 7:42*pm, John H wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 06:30:50 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:





On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 05:01:38 -0400, I am Tosk
wrote:

I would imagine so, but to me it doesn't make sense to only be able to
judge half the boats length by having a 23' boat look like it's only
12.

I don't think it's as easy to judge length at night, despite where the lights
are located.

Judging length is actually not that important except with very large
boats like freighters, or tug boats pulling a barge. *One of the best
things a small boat can do to improve its visibility is to install a
radar reflector mounted as high off the water as possible.

http://www.defender.com/ProductDisplay?id=82874

Mounting can be as simple as suspending from a boat hook held in a
fishing *rod holder.

Another reason these $5 million dollar boats should have rod holders. I knew it.
--
John H

For a great time, go here first...http://tinyurl.com/ygqxs5v- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

John, If you bump up to billion dollar boats, they come with rod
holders as standard equipment!

http://armchairhawaii.com/Attraction...eship/guns.jpg

Trolling for sperm whales?
--
John H

For a great time, go here first... http://tinyurl.com/ygqxs5v

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 18:47:30 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:

On Mar 21, 3:21*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:49:22 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

Pick up a copy of the Inland/International navigation rules or read
them online - you can also download a copy in PDF format I believe.

http://www.amazon.com/Navigation-Rul.../dp/0939837498

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rotr_online.htm

Thanks for those links, Tom. I will be doing some studying. I suppose
the reason I'm asking all these questions about Nav. Lights is I want
to update my boat *to better standards and make it as safe as I can.

I'd leave the lights alone for now as long as they are working OK
since there are probably other things that need a look. *

Running at night is very tricky even for the experienced, and should
really be avoided when possible. *Take it real slow, especially the
first few times. * Everything that looks familiar during daylight
looks entirely different in the dark, and distances are much more
difficult to judge accurately.

Back in my sailboat days I ran literally thousands of miles in the
dark with no incidents and no radar but with a few close calls, some
way too close for comfort. *Now that I've gotten used to running with
radar at night I would never operate without it if at all possible. *

Even radar is not perfect however. *Off the coast of the Dominican
Republic we were surprised several times by small wooden fishing
skiffs operating 12 or more miles offshore with no lights and no radar
image at all. *They are totally invisible until you are almost on
them, even in daylight. *They would see us however and either yell or
shine a light at us, not a really satisfactory way of navigating.
That's one of my reasons for recommending a good radar reflector.

Wayne, I don't want to run at night, even on my wide Carlyle Lake. And
I dont' plan to, but I wan't my boat to be set up better'n spec.

Tim, the last time I ran at night was from the fireworks show at the Washington
Mall to the Ft Belvoir marina, down the Potomac river at about 11 PM,

It scared the **** out of me. I was in a 15' Whaler, and it seemed like everyone
else had a 34' Gofast, which they piloted while drunk.

Never again.

On the CT River it's a lot more quiet at night. I have gone from Haddam
to Saybrook at night. I still use the spotlight for long distance
surveying but up close the moonlight was plenty. My biggest reason for
moving the big light around the horizon is so I can be seen.

Scotty

--
For a great time, go here first... http://tinyurl.com/ygqxs5v

On 3/22/10 10:25 AM, I am Tosk wrote:
In ,
says...

On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 18:47:30 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Mar 21, 3:21 pm, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:49:22 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Pick up a copy of the Inland/International navigation rules or read
them online - you can also download a copy in PDF format I believe.

http://www.amazon.com/Navigation-Rul.../dp/0939837498

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rotr_online.htm

Thanks for those links, Tom. I will be doing some studying. I suppose
the reason I'm asking all these questions about Nav. Lights is I want
to update my boat to better standards and make it as safe as I can.

I'd leave the lights alone for now as long as they are working OK
since there are probably other things that need a look.

Running at night is very tricky even for the experienced, and should
really be avoided when possible. Take it real slow, especially the
first few times. Everything that looks familiar during daylight
looks entirely different in the dark, and distances are much more
difficult to judge accurately.

Back in my sailboat days I ran literally thousands of miles in the
dark with no incidents and no radar but with a few close calls, some
way too close for comfort. Now that I've gotten used to running with
radar at night I would never operate without it if at all possible.

Even radar is not perfect however. Off the coast of the Dominican
Republic we were surprised several times by small wooden fishing
skiffs operating 12 or more miles offshore with no lights and no radar
image at all. They are totally invisible until you are almost on
them, even in daylight. They would see us however and either yell or
shine a light at us, not a really satisfactory way of navigating.
That's one of my reasons for recommending a good radar reflector.

Wayne, I don't want to run at night, even on my wide Carlyle Lake. And
I dont' plan to, but I wan't my boat to be set up better'n spec.

Tim, the last time I ran at night was from the fireworks show at the Washington
Mall to the Ft Belvoir marina, down the Potomac river at about 11 PM,

It scared the **** out of me. I was in a 15' Whaler, and it seemed like everyone
else had a 34' Gofast, which they piloted while drunk.

Never again.

On the CT River it's a lot more quiet at night. I have gone from Haddam
to Saybrook at night. I still use the spotlight for long distance
surveying but up close the moonlight was plenty. My biggest reason for
moving the big light around the horizon is so I can be seen.

Scotty


Gee, I was born in Connecticut...and traveled to many of its cities and
towns. I recall *Old Saybrook* but I don't recall a "Saybrook." Might
you enlighten us?

Tim wrote:
On Mar 21, 11:42 am, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:54:04 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:





On Mar 21, 5:30 am, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 05:01:38 -0400, I am Tosk
wrote:
I would imagine so, but to me it doesn't make sense to only be able to
judge half the boats length by having a 23' boat look like it's only
12.
I don't think it's as easy to judge length at night, despite where the lights
are located.
Judging length is actually not that important except with very large
boats like freighters, or tug boats pulling a barge. One of the best
things a small boat can do to improve its visibility is to install a
radar reflector mounted as high off the water as possible.
http://www.defender.com/ProductDisplay?id=82874
Mounting can be as simple as suspending from a boat hook held in a
fishing rod holder.
That is taken into consideration as well, Wayne. Thanks! I also have
a clip-on white light that is fairly light and battery operated, and
can be suspended from the windshield if need be. The D-batteries are
down low so there is little weight up top. and it's actually about 3
ft. long so that would be at least 3 ft. above the windshield.
One of the most important things about nav lights, or any other lights
is that you should not be able to see them from the helm. Those folks
with that big "all around" white light on the stern are not really
serious about going out at night. You should have a stern light that
points back and a mast head light that points side and forward but not
in the helmsman's line of sight. It should be shielded below and not
reflected off the boat forward of the helm.
Otherwise it destroys your night vision and prompts people to want
"headlights" that destroy everyone elses night vision (besides being
illegal)
If you actually boat anywhere near a big population center it won't
really get dark at night anyway. Around the Estero Bay you can see
just fine as soon as you let your eyes get used to the dark. You
certainly can see something 100' away better than you would with a
spotlight. The spotlight only lights up the particular thing you are
looking at, not the thing you weren't expecting a few degrees abeam of
your light.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Pardner, I see what you're saying now...

http://content.answers.com/main/cont...g/f0196-01.jpg

Also, over time, some green lights actually turn blueish. At a distance,
when lit they appear white.

hk wrote:
On 3/22/10 9:10 AM, W1TEF wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 07:43:32 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 06:12:40 -0400,
wrote:

Chapman's is a great investment for anyone who is even remotely
interested in boats. Hopefully that includes everyone in this group
and I know it applies to Tim. I got my first copy sometime back in
the early 70s and still refer to it once in a while.

I have two copies of "American Practical Navigator" - one published in
1914 and the latest that has all the more modern changes. The
differences between the two are significant.

My Paternal Grandfather had a copy of "The New American Practical
Navigator" which was the book that Bowditch's AMP is based on. It was
written in 1802. It now resides in the Peabody Museum in Salem, MA.

Personally, Chapman's is great for all around boating, but Bowditch is
the Master Course. :)

Do you have a copy of Dutton's also? My copy dates back to the 70s or
80s. I believe it was the official navigation text at the the US
Naval Academy at that time but I always found Bowditch more useful for
most things. Dutton's had information on electronic navigation but
that's way out of date at this point.

No, but my brother has the copy my Dad had along with a WWII
Bluejacket manual which is also kind of interesting. :)



Are you related to the SW Tom who wasn't going to post here?

:)
Does it matter?

I am Tosk wrote:
In article ,
says...
In article ced8cd5d-d10e-4792-8c2a-
, says...
On Mar 21, 3:21 pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:49:22 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

Pick up a copy of the Inland/International navigation rules or read
them online - you can also download a copy in PDF format I believe.
http://www.amazon.com/Navigation-Rul.../dp/0939837498
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rotr_online.htm
Thanks for those links, Tom. I will be doing some studying. I suppose
the reason I'm asking all these questions about Nav. Lights is I want
to update my boat to better standards and make it as safe as I can.
I'd leave the lights alone for now as long as they are working OK
since there are probably other things that need a look.

Running at night is very tricky even for the experienced, and should
really be avoided when possible. Take it real slow, especially the
first few times. Everything that looks familiar during daylight
looks entirely different in the dark, and distances are much more
difficult to judge accurately.

Back in my sailboat days I ran literally thousands of miles in the
dark with no incidents and no radar but with a few close calls, some
way too close for comfort. Now that I've gotten used to running with
radar at night I would never operate without it if at all possible.

Even radar is not perfect however. Off the coast of the Dominican
Republic we were surprised several times by small wooden fishing
skiffs operating 12 or more miles offshore with no lights and no
radatr
image at all. They are totally invisible until you are almost on
them, even in daylight. They would see us however and either yell or
shine a light at us, not a really satisfactory way of navigating.
That's one of my reasons for recommending a good radar reflector.
Wayne, I don't want to run at night, even on my wide Carlyle Lake. And
I dont' plan to, but I wan't my boat to be set up better'n spec.
Oh man, being out at night on an open area is awesome. Make sure your
lights are set up right like they said so you don't see them from the
cockpit and they don't reflect off of anything back at you. Then keep
the radio off, and always keep the big spotlight moving. If you have two
sets of eyes, and two lights, it's even better. Anchored is a bit more
complicated but if you set yourself right and keep alert, you are
usually ok. Again, I wouldn't do it without a couple of those million
candle power lights, hand held and moving around a lot.

Scotty

I should note that when I say keep the radio off, I don't mean
communication radio, I mean keep the tunes off and pay attention to what
is around you. One thing I learned was not to necessarily look out for
other boats, but look up too! One day I saw this star moving across the
sky and realized it was the top light of a tug, moving a huge barge
right at me. yikes.

Scotty

Good thing you didn't blind him with your spot light.

hk wrote:
On 3/22/10 8:04 AM, hk wrote:
On 3/22/10 7:48 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 06:14:35 -0400,
wrote:

On 3/21/10 10:46 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 18:09:47 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

All the ones in the marina have them at the bow.

Then you are at a marina with nothing but small boats.

What an ass you are, w'hine.

I take it we can we assume that your nav lights are on the bow also?


In a previous post, a question was asked:

"Aren't most nav lights on or near the bow of most boats???"

Your response:

"No."

How the hell would you know whether there are more boats with side or
otherwise mounted nav lights than combo bow mounted nav lights? As there
are far more small boats than large boats, I suspect there are more
combo than split red/green nav lights on boats.

And aren't combos satisfactory for boats up to 20 meters long? That
would cover your old barge, wouldn't it? Nothing prevents you from using
sidelights. Hell, I have bow-mounted, separate nav lights on my 21'
Parker. I had the standard combo light removed to accommodate my anchor
roller:



http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...t=IMG_0434.jpg



You are a pompous ass, w'hine.






Yawn

On 3/22/10 12:11 PM, anon-e-moose wrote:
hk wrote:
On 3/22/10 8:04 AM, hk wrote:
On 3/22/10 7:48 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 06:14:35 -0400,
wrote:

On 3/21/10 10:46 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 18:09:47 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

All the ones in the marina have them at the bow.

Then you are at a marina with nothing but small boats.

What an ass you are, w'hine.

I take it we can we assume that your nav lights are on the bow also?


In a previous post, a question was asked:

"Aren't most nav lights on or near the bow of most boats???"

Your response:

"No."

How the hell would you know whether there are more boats with side or
otherwise mounted nav lights than combo bow mounted nav lights? As there
are far more small boats than large boats, I suspect there are more
combo than split red/green nav lights on boats.

And aren't combos satisfactory for boats up to 20 meters long? That
would cover your old barge, wouldn't it? Nothing prevents you from using
sidelights. Hell, I have bow-mounted, separate nav lights on my 21'
Parker. I had the standard combo light removed to accommodate my anchor
roller:



http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...t=IMG_0434.jpg



You are a pompous ass, w'hine.






Yawn

Sorry, I don't pay much attention to anonymous assholes...like you.

On 3/22/10 12:30 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 23:23:22 -0400, I am Tosk
wrote:

In ,
says...

On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 21:54:11 -0400, I am Tosk
wrote:

Again, I wouldn't do it without a couple of those million
candle power lights, hand held and moving around a lot.

Sound advice for ruining your night vision.

Hrummmph...snort a lot depends on where you boat. I am in smaller,
closer water than most here. Most times when we are moving at night it's
in skinny water, by oar, with one hanging off the bow with a light and
net looking for blue crabs. Don't get all snooty on me here. All of the
other traffic in the area will be outfitted similarly in most cases.

Scotty

A whole flotilla of blind sailors huh ;-)

I suppose all lit up like that it would be hard to get hit.
Around here "skinny water" just makes people go faster in those 200 HP
"flats" boats.
It is funny to watch when they guess wrong and end up high centered on
an oyster bar. A spotlight is counterproductive for that. You are a
lot better off seeing the light coming from the opposite side of the
bar, reflecting off the surface of the water. If there is any motion
at all you will see an anomaly over the bar. If it is "slick calm" you
spins the wheel, you takes your chances. It is hard to beat local
knowledge at that point.

The spotlight makes it easier for snotty to poach.

Around here, the crabbing is done during the day.

On Mar 22, 10:22*am, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 20:17:50 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:





On Mar 21, 9:53*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 21:54:11 -0400, I am Tosk

wrote:
I wouldn't do it without a couple of those million
candle power lights, hand held and moving around a lot.

I've got a couple of those but only use them in close quarters on
unlighted objects like nav markers or jetties. *

Once you turn on a spotlight your night vision goes away for about 10
minutes or more. *It's amazing what you can see without any lights
once your eyes get dark adapted.

Yes, on the few times I've run at night on the Lake, I've killed my
gauge lights so they weren't glaring back at me. even on dim, they
were a bother.

It helps to replace the bulbs with red ones. They do sell those peanut
bulbs in red. I put a resistor in the line to my gauge bulbs. The good
news is if you dim them they will probably last forever.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Mine are set up naturally 'orange' and are easy on the eyes at night,
but they do distract. I can dim them but it seems not enough to keep
from being annoying. I have them as low as they can go and will turn
them on briefly and occasionally just to make sure things are in
order, then off they go.