On Mar 21, 5:30*am, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 05:01:38 -0400, I am Tosk

wrote:
I would imagine so, but to me it doesn't make sense to only be able to
judge half the boats length by having a 23' boat look like it's only
12.

I don't think it's as easy to judge length at night, despite where the lights
are located.

Judging length is actually not that important except with very large
boats like freighters, or tug boats pulling a barge. *One of the best
things a small boat can do to improve its visibility is to install a
radar reflector mounted as high off the water as possible.

http://www.defender.com/ProductDisplay?id=82874

Mounting can be as simple as suspending from a boat hook held in a
fishing *rod holder.

That is taken into consideration as well, Wayne. Thanks! I also have
a clip-on white light that is fairly light and battery operated, and
can be suspended from the windshield if need be. The D-batteries are
down low so there is little weight up top. and it's actually about 3
ft. long so that would be at least 3 ft. above the windshield.

"W1TEF" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 20:34:34 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

My Marquis has the little Vav. lights on the sides located almost
midships, and nothing on the bow. I really think that's an odd
arrangement but so be it, and I would think that they should actually
be located on the bow so the length of the boat can be juddged at
night.

a couple questions. would it be better to remove them and go with a
bow Nav light? or is it legal to run both green/red on bow and sides
at the same time?

I'm opting for putting a Nav. llight on the bow myself.

Two sets of nav lights ain't legal.

As to positioning, they are fine where they are. Nav lights aren't
used to judge length, but position and bearing.

Pick up a copy of the Inland/International navigation rules or read
them online - you can also download a copy in PDF format I believe.

http://www.amazon.com/Navigation-Rul.../dp/0939837498

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rotr_online.htm


I bet they are if you use them at the same time. I don't see any mention of
it on the uscg.gov link, but that doesn't mean it's ok. Do you have
something you can point to that clarifies?

--
Nom=de=Plume

"mgg" wrote in message
...


"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Mar 20, 11:04 pm, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 20:34:34 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

My Marquis has the little Vav. lights on the sides located almost
midships, and nothing on the bow. I really think that's an odd
arrangement but so be it, and I would think that they should actually
be located on the bow so the length of the boat can be juddged at
night.

a couple questions. would it be better to remove them and go with a
bow Nav light? or is it legal to run both green/red on bow and sides
at the same time?

I'm opting for putting a Nav. llight on the bow myself.

Your existing lights are perfectly legal. Most ships have their nav
lights mounted on the superstructure.

I would imagine so, but to me it doesn't make sense to only be able to
judge half the boats length by having a 23' boat look like it's only
12.

The boat's length has nothing to do with it. It's a matter of knowing the
orientation of the boat, it's rough heading, and what you need to do (or
not do) to avoid a collision. Your nav lights are perfectly suited for
that purpose.

--Mike

If they are on the bow, then someone is going to figure it is a small skiff.

"CalifBill" wrote in message
...

"mgg" wrote in message
...


"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Mar 20, 11:04 pm, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 20:34:34 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

My Marquis has the little Vav. lights on the sides located almost
midships, and nothing on the bow. I really think that's an odd
arrangement but so be it, and I would think that they should actually
be located on the bow so the length of the boat can be juddged at
night.

a couple questions. would it be better to remove them and go with a
bow Nav light? or is it legal to run both green/red on bow and sides
at the same time?

I'm opting for putting a Nav. llight on the bow myself.

Your existing lights are perfectly legal. Most ships have their nav
lights mounted on the superstructure.

I would imagine so, but to me it doesn't make sense to only be able to
judge half the boats length by having a 23' boat look like it's only
12.

The boat's length has nothing to do with it. It's a matter of knowing the
orientation of the boat, it's rough heading, and what you need to do (or
not do) to avoid a collision. Your nav lights are perfectly suited for
that purpose.

--Mike

If they are on the bow, then someone is going to figure it is a small
skiff.

Aren't most nav lights on or near the bow of most boats???

--
Nom=de=Plume

On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 12:06:43 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Aren't most nav lights on or near the bow of most boats???

No.

On Mar 21, 12:42*pm, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:54:04 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:



On Mar 21, 5:30*am, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 05:01:38 -0400, I am Tosk

wrote:
I would imagine so, but to me it doesn't make sense to only be able to
judge half the boats length by having a 23' boat look like it's only
12.

I don't think it's as easy to judge length at night, despite where the lights
are located.

Judging length is actually not that important except with very large
boats like freighters, or tug boats pulling a barge. *One of the best
things a small boat can do to improve its visibility is to install a
radar reflector mounted as high off the water as possible.

http://www.defender.com/ProductDisplay?id=82874

Mounting can be as simple as suspending from a boat hook held in a
fishing *rod holder.

That is taken into consideration as well, Wayne. Thanks! *I also have
a clip-on white light that is fairly light and battery operated, *and
can be suspended from *the windshield if need be. The D-batteries are
down low so there is little weight up top. and it's actually about 3
ft. long so that would be at least 3 ft. above the windshield.

One of the most important things about nav lights, or any other lights
is that you should not be able to see them from the helm. Those folks
with that big "all around" white light on the stern are not really
serious about going out at night. You should have a stern light that
points back and a mast head light that points side and forward but not
in the helmsman's line of sight. It should be shielded below and not
reflected off the boat forward of the helm.
Otherwise it destroys your night vision and prompts people to want
"headlights" that destroy everyone elses night vision (besides being
illegal)
If you actually boat anywhere near a big population center it won't
really get dark at night anyway. Around the Estero Bay you can see
just fine as soon as you let your eyes get used to the dark. You
certainly can see something 100' away better than you would with a
spotlight. The spotlight only lights up the particular thing you are
looking at, not the thing you weren't expecting a few degrees abeam of
your light.

K. Now this is all starting to make sense to me. Forgive my
persistence, because ignorance isn't bliss.

On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:49:22 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

Pick up a copy of the Inland/International navigation rules or read
them online - you can also download a copy in PDF format I believe.

http://www.amazon.com/Navigation-Rul.../dp/0939837498

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rotr_online.htm

Thanks for those links, Tom. I will be doing some studying. I suppose
the reason I'm asking all these questions about Nav. Lights is I want
to update my boat to better standards and make it as safe as I can.

I'd leave the lights alone for now as long as they are working OK
since there are probably other things that need a look.

Running at night is very tricky even for the experienced, and should
really be avoided when possible. Take it real slow, especially the
first few times. Everything that looks familiar during daylight
looks entirely different in the dark, and distances are much more
difficult to judge accurately.

Back in my sailboat days I ran literally thousands of miles in the
dark with no incidents and no radar but with a few close calls, some
way too close for comfort. Now that I've gotten used to running with
radar at night I would never operate without it if at all possible.

Even radar is not perfect however. Off the coast of the Dominican
Republic we were surprised several times by small wooden fishing
skiffs operating 12 or more miles offshore with no lights and no radar
image at all. They are totally invisible until you are almost on
them, even in daylight. They would see us however and either yell or
shine a light at us, not a really satisfactory way of navigating.
That's one of my reasons for recommending a good radar reflector.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 12:06:43 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Aren't most nav lights on or near the bow of most boats???

No.


Really? Just about every sailboat I've seen at marina have bow lights and a
stern light. Some have lights at the top of the mast also. I think I've seen
the same at the bow for most powerboats, but I didn't really look.

--
Nom=de=Plume

On 3/21/10 5:27 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 12:06:43 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Aren't most nav lights on or near the bow of most boats???

No.


Really? Just about every sailboat I've seen at marina have bow lights and a
stern light. Some have lights at the top of the mast also. I think I've seen
the same at the bow for most powerboats, but I didn't really look.



W'hine's counted all the boats and those are his results.

--


If the X-MimeOLE "header" doesn't say:

Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.8)
Gecko/20100227 Thunderbird/3.0.3 (or higher)

then it isn't me, it's an ID spoofer.

On Mar 21, 4:21*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:49:22 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

Pick up a copy of the Inland/International navigation rules or read
them online - you can also download a copy in PDF format I believe.

http://www.amazon.com/Navigation-Rul.../dp/0939837498

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rotr_online.htm

Thanks for those links, Tom. I will be doing some studying. I suppose
the reason I'm asking all these questions about Nav. Lights is I want
to update my boat *to better standards and make it as safe as I can.

I'd leave the lights alone for now as long as they are working OK
since there are probably other things that need a look. *

Running at night is very tricky even for the experienced, and should
really be avoided when possible. *Take it real slow, especially the
first few times. * Everything that looks familiar during daylight
looks entirely different in the dark, and distances are much more
difficult to judge accurately.

Back in my sailboat days I ran literally thousands of miles in the
dark with no incidents and no radar but with a few close calls, some
way too close for comfort. *Now that I've gotten used to running with
radar at night I would never operate without it if at all possible. *

Even radar is not perfect however. *Off the coast of the Dominican
Republic we were surprised several times by small wooden fishing
skiffs operating 12 or more miles offshore with no lights and no radar
image at all. *They are totally invisible until you are almost on
them, even in daylight. *They would see us however and either yell or
shine a light at us, not a really satisfactory way of navigating.
That's one of my reasons for recommending a good radar reflector.
Well, the lights arn't a big issue to mount or detach, so it's going
into the 'things--to-do-list...


Now I understand why you mentioned the radar deflector, Wayne. Not
that it's some whirlie gig but it actually helps others who run radar
to detect you.

Thanks!