On 27/12/2009 10:26 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 27/12/2009 8:40 PM, TopBassDog wrote:
On Dec 27, 9:09 pm, wrote:
On 27/12/2009 4:35 PM, Tom Francis wrote:

On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 21:40:14 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

What say you fliers?

Have to ask Janet "The System Worked" Napolitano.

"DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano said that the thwarting of the attempt
to blow up the Amsterdam-Detroit flight this week demonstrated that
“the system worked.”

What a clueless wench. More like the idiot got nervious when mixing the
chemicals and messed up on his lap. Hope he burned his balls. But luck
had more to do with it. It wasn't time to die for the people on board.

But the plane landed safely, so the system had to work, eh?

One has to ask how the system made a difference.

He got on the plane right past authorities with an explosive compound. It
was his mistakes, not the governments actions that saved the day. Because
even if you were willing to die, I doubt seriously you would want to fry
your balls first.

Ok, that was funny. In any case she was talking about after the incident
started. Perhaps we should see what the investigations show? Nah... just
blame Obama.

Actiually, I blame peoples stupidity. But Obama be the one responsible
these days. I didn't agree with Bush's go at it either. Too many
purely politicial barriers in doing this right.

For example, why did it take so long to put locks on the cabin doors to
the pilots? Because big budgets and fast talk were more important than
reality.

Talk a look at who they do catch, and always there is a person behind it
that takes there job seriously, including profiling and whatever they
can use.

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
On 27/12/2009 10:26 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 27/12/2009 8:40 PM, TopBassDog wrote:
On Dec 27, 9:09 pm, wrote:
On 27/12/2009 4:35 PM, Tom Francis wrote:

On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 21:40:14 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

What say you fliers?

Have to ask Janet "The System Worked" Napolitano.

"DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano said that the thwarting of the
attempt
to blow up the Amsterdam-Detroit flight this week demonstrated that
“the system worked.”

What a clueless wench. More like the idiot got nervious when mixing
the
chemicals and messed up on his lap. Hope he burned his balls. But
luck
had more to do with it. It wasn't time to die for the people on
board.

But the plane landed safely, so the system had to work, eh?

One has to ask how the system made a difference.

He got on the plane right past authorities with an explosive compound.
It
was his mistakes, not the governments actions that saved the day.
Because
even if you were willing to die, I doubt seriously you would want to fry
your balls first.

Ok, that was funny. In any case she was talking about after the incident
started. Perhaps we should see what the investigations show? Nah... just
blame Obama.

Actiually, I blame peoples stupidity. But Obama be the one responsible
these days. I didn't agree with Bush's go at it either. Too many purely
politicial barriers in doing this right.

I do as well. The person responsible for not putting this person on a higher
level list should be fired and the protocols should be changed. Obama is,
ultimately, responsible. I think he gets that.


For example, why did it take so long to put locks on the cabin doors to
the pilots? Because big budgets and fast talk were more important than
reality.

Good question!

Talk a look at who they do catch, and always there is a person behind it
that takes there job seriously, including profiling and whatever they can
use.

I don't agree with racial profiling, but I do agree with intelligent
profiling. Seems to me that if someone's father tells the embassy that his
son is a threat, and then said son gets on a flight to the US, then he
should have at least been pulled from the line, strip searched, questioned
for an extended period, etc. If it was a mistake (perhaps the father
over-reacted), then fine, he could have his clothes back and continue.

--
Nom=de=Plume

On 28/12/2009 12:36 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:

Actiually, I blame peoples stupidity. But Obama be the one responsible
these days. I didn't agree with Bush's go at it either. Too many purely
politicial barriers in doing this right.

I do as well. The person responsible for not putting this person on a higher
level list should be fired and the protocols should be changed. Obama is,
ultimately, responsible. I think he gets that.

Problem is the administration will find some low level goat and blame
them. If they did fire someone over this I would pick management in
Amsterdam or Europe as the ideal targets.

People at the bottom of the food chain do what they are told or get
fired. The best they can be are as goats.

For example, why did it take so long to put locks on the cabin doors to
the pilots? Because big budgets and fast talk were more important than
reality.

Good question!

I asked it knowing the answer. It is because it was never about
security, it was about more controls over people. Getting tabs on
American citizens, non-terrorists going to the Caymans for tax evasion.
Government like the mafia, hates ibeing skimmed.

9/11 was terrorists, but gave the government a good excuse to water down
freedom, track peoples money and become bigger (statism).

Having a locked cockpit has been suggested for decades. Wasn't fancy
sell to politicians to do PR and BS with.

Talk a look at who they do catch, and always there is a person behind it
that takes there job seriously, including profiling and whatever they can
use.

I don't agree with racial profiling, but I do agree with intelligent
profiling. Seems to me that if someone's father tells the embassy that his
son is a threat, and then said son gets on a flight to the US, then he
should have at least been pulled from the line, strip searched, questioned
for an extended period, etc. If it was a mistake (perhaps the father
over-reacted), then fine, he could have his clothes back and continue.

I too don't really like it, even though my profile would let me off the
hook. But the mathematics of probabilities say you must. What is more
important? Being effective or racially blind?

Islam/muslim culture often teaches facism and racism, certainly
intollerance as they tend to be the most violent antions on earth today.
Often literally beheading their own on poliitical not moral
motivation. Sharia law for example, used more often than not as an
exebition of power than of any moral issues.

When dealing with a culture that has a large facist segment, profiling
become a must.

We all do it, just many are not as conciously aware of themselves enough
to see it, as many choose to ignore the fact that they actually do just
that.

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
On 28/12/2009 12:36 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:

Actiually, I blame peoples stupidity. But Obama be the one responsible
these days. I didn't agree with Bush's go at it either. Too many
purely
politicial barriers in doing this right.

I do as well. The person responsible for not putting this person on a
higher
level list should be fired and the protocols should be changed. Obama is,
ultimately, responsible. I think he gets that.

Problem is the administration will find some low level goat and blame
them. If they did fire someone over this I would pick management in
Amsterdam or Europe as the ideal targets.

I think it's doubtful that some high-level person in the administration had
anything specifically to do with this situation. It's likely a relatively
low-level person not doing the right thing, but we'll see.


People at the bottom of the food chain do what they are told or get fired.
The best they can be are as goats.

For example, why did it take so long to put locks on the cabin doors to
the pilots? Because big budgets and fast talk were more important than
reality.

Good question!

I asked it knowing the answer. It is because it was never about security,
it was about more controls over people. Getting tabs on American
citizens, non-terrorists going to the Caymans for tax evasion. Government
like the mafia, hates ibeing skimmed.

No, I think it was more about the expense to the airlines. That's what I
recall being the big deal at the time.


9/11 was terrorists, but gave the government a good excuse to water down
freedom, track peoples money and become bigger (statism).

Having a locked cockpit has been suggested for decades. Wasn't fancy sell
to politicians to do PR and BS with.

Talk a look at who they do catch, and always there is a person behind it
that takes there job seriously, including profiling and whatever they
can
use.

I don't agree with racial profiling, but I do agree with intelligent
profiling. Seems to me that if someone's father tells the embassy that
his
son is a threat, and then said son gets on a flight to the US, then he
should have at least been pulled from the line, strip searched,
questioned
for an extended period, etc. If it was a mistake (perhaps the father
over-reacted), then fine, he could have his clothes back and continue.

I too don't really like it, even though my profile would let me off the
hook. But the mathematics of probabilities say you must. What is more
important? Being effective or racially blind?

It's not about race. It's about intelligent profiling. It's about ensuring
that the people on the front lines have the right information and are
empowered to use it. Just because someone is black and from Nigeria isn't
enough. There needs to be some other factor.. e.g., no luggage, on a watch
list. Reading a Koran isn't enough, but e.g., screaming infidels must die
would be.


Islam/muslim culture often teaches facism and racism, certainly
intollerance as they tend to be the most violent antions on earth today.
Often literally beheading their own on poliitical not moral motivation.
Sharia law for example, used more often than not as an exebition of power
than of any moral issues.

As does the Christian culture. And, the Christian culture is currently
engaged in several wars.


When dealing with a culture that has a large facist segment, profiling
become a must.

No. It's not cultural. It's radicalization of specific individuals.


We all do it, just many are not as conciously aware of themselves enough
to see it, as many choose to ignore the fact that they actually do just
that.

Yes, we all do it. And the mark of a complete human being is to fight our
more base instincts.

--
Nom=de=Plume

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 11:36:44 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Actiually, I blame peoples stupidity. But Obama be the one responsible
these days. I didn't agree with Bush's go at it either. Too many
purely
politicial barriers in doing this right.

I do as well. The person responsible for not putting this person on a
higher
level list should be fired and the protocols should be changed. Obama is,
ultimately, responsible. I think he gets that.


I wonder how many people would fit this guy's profile?
I believe we are "watching" about a quarter of a million people. The
question is which ones need to be watched more closely and still
staying politically correct enough not to be criticized for it.
In Obama's defense, this is one of those "damned if you do, damned if
you don't things.

We're not actually watching them ... those on the 500K watch list. As I've
said, intelligent profiling would solve much of this. Looks like we aren't
yet doing a good job with this.

On the bright side, even if this guy's bomb had gone off, the chances
of blowing a hole in the skin of a plane and bringing it down is
fairly slim. Remember Aloha Airlines Flight 243 where about 150 square
feet of the skin peeled off and the only person who died was a flight
attendant who blew out of the hole.
Both this and the shoe bomber were really overblown as a threat.

I believe the authorities said that it was plenty to bring down the plane,
but I agree that the threat is overblown in the sense that we're not
reacting to it properly. Personally, I really don't want to see random
people's feet.

As far as I am concerned, the terrorists have won. They have us living
our lives in fear and made traveling a living hell.
They should put one more security system on the planes, an air lock.
Catch these guys, put them in the air lock at 30,000 feet, then open
the outer door.
"Bye Bye, your virgins are on the ground waiting for you"


I don't think they've won. Most people are not fearful.


--
Nom=de=Plume