Community organization is nothing new
 

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:09:30 -0600, "Candy Man"
wrote:


"jps" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:18:48 -0600, "Candy Man"
wrote:


"jps" wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:06:12 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:pandg5d741qekv1fp9ujq0honp8ncl2g4m@4ax. com...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:40:47 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:582cg5ho1559jvhse30dd13lg7e7i6ru86@4a x.com...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:00:42 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:u0tbg5p53o6om8flm9uropquhj5c3j5ipe@ 4ax.com...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:59:50 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:ir9bg55003or5vckj6sgf0q2qgek6u13v ...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:59:22 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"TopBassDog" wrote in message
...


Hitler had his organizers (Brown Shirts) too!

http://www.trib.com/news/opinion/mai...501f759b0.html

And not much unlike ACORN.


Jesus was a community organizer. Why don't you compare Him to
Hitler...

Jesus was a community organizer?

NAS Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on
the
earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

NAS Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his
own
father and mother and wife and children and brothers and
sisters,
yes,
and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

NAS Mark 6:4 Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without
honor
except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his
own
household."

NAS Matthew 8:4 And Jesus *said to him, "See that you tell no
one;
but
go, show yourself to the priest and present the offering that
Moses
commanded, as a testimony to them."


All taken out of context. But, if you believe that He was more
interested
in
profit than people, I'm not sure what I can add.

Any passage or quote taken out of an extant text can be said to
be
out
of context. What may be more accurate is to say that I provided
no
extensive excerpts to provide additional context. That being
said,
though, if Jesus were a community organizer, you should be able
to
provide those passages that qualifiably make that case.
Alternately,
I can make the case that Christ was removed from this world
before
the
Christian community was "organized" by the apostles and His
disciples.
In the truest since of the word, Christ was a "revolutionary,"
not
a
community organizer.


There was no such phrase in those times, as you know. Feel free to
tell
me
how bad a community organizer is if that's your intention. I don't
need
to
"provide" passages, and if you knew better, you wouldn't ask. It's
a
completely ingenuous argument.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by all of this. There is a
panoply
of theological terms, or phrases, that certainly didn't exist in
the
time of Christ that are used to describe particular premises,
doctrines, tenets, and manifestations in Biblical scripture.
This
fact doesn't detract from the validity of those scriptural
components.
Though, "no such phrase" may not have been employed in those days,
it
doesn't take away from the fact there may have been community
organizers. In fact, the Apostle Paul comes very close to fitting
the
definition. This also is not to suggest that a community
organizer
is
anathema. What I find offensive is any attempt to describe Christ
as
a community organizer in order to elevate the vocation to lofty
heights. Jesus Christ simply was not a community organizer. If
anything, he served as a contrary example. If it is a legitimate
exercise to describe Christ as community organizer, then it's
legitimacy can be adduced from the time-honored canon of writings
from
which excerpts can be submitted to buttress the assertion.

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access


No, it's being used derisively by the right to justify
obstructionism.

So, I take it that you decline to submit evidential material to
confirm his role as a community organizer?


It's not my job to satisfy your desire to shift the discussion from
the
right using that phrase derisively against Obama to my ability to do
biblical research.

Serial deflector, he is. Forget cogency in debating him. He likes to
jump tracks to gain advantage. Can't face issues head on.

Dude, he posed a question about Jesus being a community organizer. Its
you
and Nom that are dodging the issue. It looks to me like he's miles
ahead.


Sock Puppet: He's miles ahead into fantasyland. Asking for quotes
from the bible that proves Jesus was a community organizer?

Are you common sense challenged too? Do you need to parse the
syllables to get to the true meaning?

Why not just post under your normal handle? Promised to leave?
Plonked by most who've known you previously?

Defensive, are we? You said that he was deflecting. But now its that you
don't know enough about the about the bible to prove that Jesus was a
community organizer. You've been taken to the wood shed and Nom too.
Neither of you know enough to prove your point. You both say that its
this
way or that way and neither of you can back it up. Plonk away now that
you've been schooled.


There isn't much point in taking him to task. He's quick to make
charges of diversion; but, he's been caught using an array of informal
fallacies, begging the question, the strawman, the ignoratio elenchi,
the ad hominem, ad infinitum (that not being one, of course). It's a
never ending tailspin, and it always comes back to his antagonist. One
can only hope that eventually he'll see the wisdom in an honest
discourse.

I figured he would have had me walk the plonk already for pointing out the
errors of his ways.

Community organization is nothing new
 

On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:42:09 -0600, "Candy Man"
wrote:



I figured he would have had me walk the plonk already for pointing out the
errors of his ways.

"Walk the plonk." hehe Good one.

--Vic

Community organization is nothing new
 

I have an R-61

http://www.sunblest.net/gun/FegR61.htm

It's actually a pretty well constructed firearm that's simple to
clean. It shoots well bt the triggers are really stiff ,but a gun
smiith took care of that. and I dont' mind the 9'mm Makarov round
either.
\
I had a bursa thunder, made in South America, that looked very similar
to yours. It shot very well and had a ton of nice features.
Unfortunately, it had serious wear problems and I decided to get rid of
it after 300 rds.

Community organization is nothing new
 

On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:42:09 -0600, "Candy Man"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:09:30 -0600, "Candy Man"
wrote:


"jps" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:18:48 -0600, "Candy Man"
wrote:


"jps" wrote in message
om...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:06:12 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:pandg5d741qekv1fp9ujq0honp8ncl2g4m@4ax .com...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:40:47 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:582cg5ho1559jvhse30dd13lg7e7i6ru86@4 ax.com...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:00:42 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:u0tbg5p53o6om8flm9uropquhj5c3j5ipe @4ax.com...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:59:50 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:ir9bg55003or5vckj6sgf0q2qgek6u13 ...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:59:22 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"TopBassDog" wrote in message
...


Hitler had his organizers (Brown Shirts) too!

http://www.trib.com/news/opinion/mai...501f759b0.html

And not much unlike ACORN.


Jesus was a community organizer. Why don't you compare Him to
Hitler...

Jesus was a community organizer?

NAS Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on
the
earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

NAS Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his
own
father and mother and wife and children and brothers and
sisters,
yes,
and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

NAS Mark 6:4 Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without
honor
except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his
own
household."

NAS Matthew 8:4 And Jesus *said to him, "See that you tell no
one;
but
go, show yourself to the priest and present the offering that
Moses
commanded, as a testimony to them."


All taken out of context. But, if you believe that He was more
interested
in
profit than people, I'm not sure what I can add.

Any passage or quote taken out of an extant text can be said to
be
out
of context. What may be more accurate is to say that I provided
no
extensive excerpts to provide additional context. That being
said,
though, if Jesus were a community organizer, you should be able
to
provide those passages that qualifiably make that case.
Alternately,
I can make the case that Christ was removed from this world
before
the
Christian community was "organized" by the apostles and His
disciples.
In the truest since of the word, Christ was a "revolutionary,"
not
a
community organizer.


There was no such phrase in those times, as you know. Feel free to
tell
me
how bad a community organizer is if that's your intention. I don't
need
to
"provide" passages, and if you knew better, you wouldn't ask. It's
a
completely ingenuous argument.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by all of this. There is a
panoply
of theological terms, or phrases, that certainly didn't exist in
the
time of Christ that are used to describe particular premises,
doctrines, tenets, and manifestations in Biblical scripture.
This
fact doesn't detract from the validity of those scriptural
components.
Though, "no such phrase" may not have been employed in those days,
it
doesn't take away from the fact there may have been community
organizers. In fact, the Apostle Paul comes very close to fitting
the
definition. This also is not to suggest that a community
organizer
is
anathema. What I find offensive is any attempt to describe Christ
as
a community organizer in order to elevate the vocation to lofty
heights. Jesus Christ simply was not a community organizer. If
anything, he served as a contrary example. If it is a legitimate
exercise to describe Christ as community organizer, then it's
legitimacy can be adduced from the time-honored canon of writings
from
which excerpts can be submitted to buttress the assertion.

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access


No, it's being used derisively by the right to justify
obstructionism.

So, I take it that you decline to submit evidential material to
confirm his role as a community organizer?


It's not my job to satisfy your desire to shift the discussion from
the
right using that phrase derisively against Obama to my ability to do
biblical research.

Serial deflector, he is. Forget cogency in debating him. He likes to
jump tracks to gain advantage. Can't face issues head on.

Dude, he posed a question about Jesus being a community organizer. Its
you
and Nom that are dodging the issue. It looks to me like he's miles
ahead.


Sock Puppet: He's miles ahead into fantasyland. Asking for quotes
from the bible that proves Jesus was a community organizer?

Are you common sense challenged too? Do you need to parse the
syllables to get to the true meaning?

Why not just post under your normal handle? Promised to leave?
Plonked by most who've known you previously?

Defensive, are we? You said that he was deflecting. But now its that you
don't know enough about the about the bible to prove that Jesus was a
community organizer. You've been taken to the wood shed and Nom too.
Neither of you know enough to prove your point. You both say that its
this
way or that way and neither of you can back it up. Plonk away now that
you've been schooled.


There isn't much point in taking him to task. He's quick to make
charges of diversion; but, he's been caught using an array of informal
fallacies, begging the question, the strawman, the ignoratio elenchi,
the ad hominem, ad infinitum (that not being one, of course). It's a
never ending tailspin, and it always comes back to his antagonist. One
can only hope that eventually he'll see the wisdom in an honest
discourse.

I figured he would have had me walk the plonk already for pointing out the
errors of his ways.

Errors are your "opinion" since the book you're wallowing in is a
parable, not a historical document. It can be twisted to mean
anything as is evident in its use as a foil for gun ownership and
wars.

Neither of which Jesus would approve.

Carry on.

Community organization is nothing new
 

On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:42:41 -0500, H the K
wrote:

I dunno, Tim. I was still half asleep this morning when I wrote this.
(My daughter is visiting from Cincy, and we went to the Elks last
night. I stayed up way too late.) But, I know that I didn't seperate
the adjectives by a comma as I should have, for one thing. I suppose
what I wanted to say was;

brazen, loud, clamorous, not-moving-on person who loathes the
"capitalist class"

I can best your ad-hominem spew to a single word to describe you.

I'm certain that those who surround you would agree.

Community organization is nothing new
 

On 11/21/09 11:51 AM, jps wrote:
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:42:41 -0500, H the
wrote:

I dunno, Tim. I was still half asleep this morning when I wrote this.
(My daughter is visiting from Cincy, and we went to the Elks last
night. I stayed up way too late.) But, I know that I didn't seperate
the adjectives by a comma as I should have, for one thing. I suppose
what I wanted to say was;

brazen, loud, clamorous, not-moving-on person who loathes the
"capitalist class"

I can best your ad-hominem spew to a single word to describe you.

I'm certain that those who surround you would agree.


Uh...how did I get into this one?



--
If you are flajim, herring, loogy, GC boater, johnson, topbassdog, rob,
achmed the sock puppet, or one of a half dozen others, you're wasting
your time by trying to *communicate* with me through rec.boats, because,
well, you are among the permanent members of my dumbfoch dumpster, and I
don't read the vomit you post, except by accident on occasion. As
always, have a nice, simple-minded day.

Community organization is nothing new
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:37:06 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:38:31 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:08:02 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:e3pdg5h3e1h6e0tob9quq9k0v6d5ckktag@4ax. com...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:31:32 -0500, H the K
wrote:

On 11/20/09 1:19 PM, wrote:

So, I take it that you decline to submit evidential material to
confirm his role as a community organizer?


Jesus can be whatever you want..., just as "the bible" can prove or
disprove any belief you have.

As an example, to me, if he existed at all, Jesus was a pretty cool
dude
with some socially acceptable ideas about his fellow man who spent
his
life preaching his vision of Judaism to Jews in the general area in
which he supposedly lived, and who had no idea or desire to convert
Jews
or pagans to a new religion. As with every other religion,
Christianity
is a creation of man.

If Jesus was a pretty cool dude, then he's so simply because you've
created Him that way in your own mind?


Can't speak for Harry, but He was a "cool dude" because of his
message
of
peace, acceptance, and healing.

His message like this?

NAS Mark 9:19 And He *answered them and *said, "O unbelieving
generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up with
you? Bring him to Me!"


As I said... out of context. You're starting to sound silly. If you
don't
like Jesus' message, why not just say so.

You don't seem to know what His message is. And I'm certain that you
are unable to articulate what the context of Mark 9:19 is.


I'm sure you're able to tell us. In any case, this has nothing to do with
the vitriol from the right. Or, maybe it does.

Hopefully you're not ready to venture into the ignoble domain of the
circumstantial ad hominem. Few go there and return to the land of
reason.


Not sure what you're talking about. It's a fact that what I said was
accurate about the right. Don't you remember Rudy's little convention
speech.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Community organization is nothing new
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:38:40 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:45:19 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:34:21 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:00:42 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:u0tbg5p53o6om8flm9uropquhj5c3j5ipe@4ax. com...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:59:50 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:ir9bg55003or5vckj6sgf0q2qgek6u13vg@4a x.com...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:59:22 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"TopBassDog" wrote in message
...


Hitler had his organizers (Brown Shirts) too!

http://www.trib.com/news/opinion/mai...501f759b0.html

And not much unlike ACORN.


Jesus was a community organizer. Why don't you compare Him to
Hitler...

Jesus was a community organizer?

NAS Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the
earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

NAS Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own
father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters,
yes,
and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

NAS Mark 6:4 Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor
except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his own
household."

NAS Matthew 8:4 And Jesus *said to him, "See that you tell no one;
but
go, show yourself to the priest and present the offering that
Moses
commanded, as a testimony to them."


All taken out of context. But, if you believe that He was more
interested
in
profit than people, I'm not sure what I can add.

Any passage or quote taken out of an extant text can be said to be
out
of context. What may be more accurate is to say that I provided no
extensive excerpts to provide additional context. That being said,
though, if Jesus were a community organizer, you should be able to
provide those passages that qualifiably make that case.
Alternately,
I can make the case that Christ was removed from this world before
the
Christian community was "organized" by the apostles and His
disciples.
In the truest since of the word, Christ was a "revolutionary," not
a
community organizer.


There was no such phrase in those times, as you know. Feel free to
tell
me
how bad a community organizer is if that's your intention. I don't
need
to
"provide" passages, and if you knew better, you wouldn't ask. It's a
completely ingenuous argument.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by all of this. There is a panoply
of theological terms, or phrases, that certainly didn't exist in the
time of Christ that are used to describe particular premises,
doctrines, tenets, and manifestations in Biblical scripture. This
fact doesn't detract from the validity of those scriptural components.
Though, "no such phrase" may not have been employed in those days, it
doesn't take away from the fact there may have been community
organizers. In fact, the Apostle Paul comes very close to fitting the
definition. This also is not to suggest that a community organizer is
anathema. What I find offensive is any attempt to describe Christ as
a community organizer in order to elevate the vocation to lofty
heights. Jesus Christ simply was not a community organizer. If
anything, he served as a contrary example. If it is a legitimate
exercise to describe Christ as community organizer, then it's
legitimacy can be adduced from the time-honored canon of writings from
which excerpts can be submitted to buttress the assertion.

You would think that once she called your argument 'ingenuous', you
would be quite satisfied to have proven your point.

Was that a Freudian slip? Only the Shadow knows.

That's why I iterated that I wasn't quite sure what she meant. These
folks also don't seem to know the definition of a community organizer
or a revolutionary. They're working with presuppositional definitions
that they deem free of defect. This might help the wayward
antagonist, though;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Organizer

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/revolutionary


--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access


You're starting to sound like an apologist for the right nutcases.

As should be obvious, my apologetics are centered elsewhere.

Now for the occasionally indolent reader that may chance upon this
post, here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia article;

"Community organizing is a process by which people living in proximity
to each other are brought together in an organization to act in their
shared self-interest. Unlike other forms of more consensual "community
building," community organizers generally assume that social change
necessarily involves conflict and social struggle in order to generate
collective power for the powerless. A core goal of community
organizing is to generate durable power for an organization
representing the community, allowing it to influence key
decision-makers on a range of issues over time. In the ideal, for
example, this can get community organizing groups a place at the table
before important decisions are made.[1] Community organizers work with
and develop new local leaders, facilitating coalitions and assisting
in the development of campaigns."


Sounds like early Christianity to me.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Community organization is nothing new
 

On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:04:41 -0500, H the K
wrote:

On 11/21/09 11:51 AM, jps wrote:
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:42:41 -0500, H the
wrote:

I dunno, Tim. I was still half asleep this morning when I wrote this.
(My daughter is visiting from Cincy, and we went to the Elks last
night. I stayed up way too late.) But, I know that I didn't seperate
the adjectives by a comma as I should have, for one thing. I suppose
what I wanted to say was;

brazen, loud, clamorous, not-moving-on person who loathes the
"capitalist class"

I can best your ad-hominem spew to a single word to describe you.

I'm certain that those who surround you would agree.


Uh...how did I get into this one?

It's that he finds my missives so unpalatable that he has me filtered,
and he uses others through which to carry on with the conversation.

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

Community organization is nothing new
 

On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:39:48 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:38:40 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:45:19 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:34:21 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:00:42 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:u0tbg5p53o6om8flm9uropquhj5c3j5ipe@4ax .com...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:59:50 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:ir9bg55003or5vckj6sgf0q2qgek6u13vg@4 ax.com...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:59:22 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"TopBassDog" wrote in message
...


Hitler had his organizers (Brown Shirts) too!

http://www.trib.com/news/opinion/mai...501f759b0.html

And not much unlike ACORN.


Jesus was a community organizer. Why don't you compare Him to
Hitler...

Jesus was a community organizer?

NAS Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the
earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

NAS Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own
father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters,
yes,
and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

NAS Mark 6:4 Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor
except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his own
household."

NAS Matthew 8:4 And Jesus *said to him, "See that you tell no one;
but
go, show yourself to the priest and present the offering that
Moses
commanded, as a testimony to them."


All taken out of context. But, if you believe that He was more
interested
in
profit than people, I'm not sure what I can add.

Any passage or quote taken out of an extant text can be said to be
out
of context. What may be more accurate is to say that I provided no
extensive excerpts to provide additional context. That being said,
though, if Jesus were a community organizer, you should be able to
provide those passages that qualifiably make that case.
Alternately,
I can make the case that Christ was removed from this world before
the
Christian community was "organized" by the apostles and His
disciples.
In the truest since of the word, Christ was a "revolutionary," not
a
community organizer.


There was no such phrase in those times, as you know. Feel free to
tell
me
how bad a community organizer is if that's your intention. I don't
need
to
"provide" passages, and if you knew better, you wouldn't ask. It's a
completely ingenuous argument.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by all of this. There is a panoply
of theological terms, or phrases, that certainly didn't exist in the
time of Christ that are used to describe particular premises,
doctrines, tenets, and manifestations in Biblical scripture. This
fact doesn't detract from the validity of those scriptural components.
Though, "no such phrase" may not have been employed in those days, it
doesn't take away from the fact there may have been community
organizers. In fact, the Apostle Paul comes very close to fitting the
definition. This also is not to suggest that a community organizer is
anathema. What I find offensive is any attempt to describe Christ as
a community organizer in order to elevate the vocation to lofty
heights. Jesus Christ simply was not a community organizer. If
anything, he served as a contrary example. If it is a legitimate
exercise to describe Christ as community organizer, then it's
legitimacy can be adduced from the time-honored canon of writings from
which excerpts can be submitted to buttress the assertion.

You would think that once she called your argument 'ingenuous', you
would be quite satisfied to have proven your point.

Was that a Freudian slip? Only the Shadow knows.

That's why I iterated that I wasn't quite sure what she meant. These
folks also don't seem to know the definition of a community organizer
or a revolutionary. They're working with presuppositional definitions
that they deem free of defect. This might help the wayward
antagonist, though;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Organizer

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/revolutionary


--
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You're starting to sound like an apologist for the right nutcases.

As should be obvious, my apologetics are centered elsewhere.

Now for the occasionally indolent reader that may chance upon this
post, here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia article;

"Community organizing is a process by which people living in proximity
to each other are brought together in an organization to act in their
shared self-interest. Unlike other forms of more consensual "community
building," community organizers generally assume that social change
necessarily involves conflict and social struggle in order to generate
collective power for the powerless. A core goal of community
organizing is to generate durable power for an organization
representing the community, allowing it to influence key
decision-makers on a range of issues over time. In the ideal, for
example, this can get community organizing groups a place at the table
before important decisions are made.[1] Community organizers work with
and develop new local leaders, facilitating coalitions and assisting
in the development of campaigns."


Sounds like early Christianity to me.

Em, the question has to do with whether or not Christ was a community
organizer. Though, what is described in this encyclopedic definition
does not parallel what is described or recorded of the early church.
Early Christianity was set apart from the community-at-large in nearly
all corners of the Roman empire.

--
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Community organization is nothing new
 

On 11/21/09 2:10 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:04:41 -0500, H the
wrote:

On 11/21/09 11:51 AM, jps wrote:
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:42:41 -0500, H the
wrote:

I dunno, Tim. I was still half asleep this morning when I wrote this.
(My daughter is visiting from Cincy, and we went to the Elks last
night. I stayed up way too late.) But, I know that I didn't seperate
the adjectives by a comma as I should have, for one thing. I suppose
what I wanted to say was;

brazen, loud, clamorous, not-moving-on person who loathes the
"capitalist class"

I can best your ad-hominem spew to a single word to describe you.

I'm certain that those who surround you would agree.


Uh...how did I get into this one?

It's that he finds my missives so unpalatable that he has me filtered,
and he uses others through which to carry on with the conversation.



Ahhh. Well, I don't go that far. I think you're just another right-wing
asshole.


--
If you are flajim, herring, loogy, GC boater, johnson, topbassdog, rob,
achmed the sock puppet, or one of a half dozen others, you're wasting
your time by trying to *communicate* with me through rec.boats, because,
well, you are among the permanent members of my dumbfoch dumpster, and I
don't read the vomit you post, except by accident on occasion. As
always, have a nice, simple-minded day.

Community organization is nothing new
 

On 11/21/09 2:16 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:39:48 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:38:40 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:45:19 -0500, John
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:34:21 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:00:42 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:59:50 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:59:22 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...


Hitler had his organizers (Brown Shirts) too!

http://www.trib.com/news/opinion/mai...501f759b0.html

And not much unlike ACORN.


Jesus was a community organizer. Why don't you compare Him to
Hitler...

Jesus was a community organizer?

NAS Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the
earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

NAS Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own
father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters,
yes,
and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

NAS Mark 6:4 Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor
except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his own
household."

NAS Matthew 8:4 And Jesus *said to him, "See that you tell no one;
but
go, show yourself to the priest and present the offering that
Moses
commanded, as a testimony to them."


All taken out of context. But, if you believe that He was more
interested
in
profit than people, I'm not sure what I can add.

Any passage or quote taken out of an extant text can be said to be
out
of context. What may be more accurate is to say that I provided no
extensive excerpts to provide additional context. That being said,
though, if Jesus were a community organizer, you should be able to
provide those passages that qualifiably make that case.
Alternately,
I can make the case that Christ was removed from this world before
the
Christian community was "organized" by the apostles and His
disciples.
In the truest since of the word, Christ was a "revolutionary," not
a
community organizer.


There was no such phrase in those times, as you know. Feel free to
tell
me
how bad a community organizer is if that's your intention. I don't
need
to
"provide" passages, and if you knew better, you wouldn't ask. It's a
completely ingenuous argument.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by all of this. There is a panoply
of theological terms, or phrases, that certainly didn't exist in the
time of Christ that are used to describe particular premises,
doctrines, tenets, and manifestations in Biblical scripture. This
fact doesn't detract from the validity of those scriptural components.
Though, "no such phrase" may not have been employed in those days, it
doesn't take away from the fact there may have been community
organizers. In fact, the Apostle Paul comes very close to fitting the
definition. This also is not to suggest that a community organizer is
anathema. What I find offensive is any attempt to describe Christ as
a community organizer in order to elevate the vocation to lofty
heights. Jesus Christ simply was not a community organizer. If
anything, he served as a contrary example. If it is a legitimate
exercise to describe Christ as community organizer, then it's
legitimacy can be adduced from the time-honored canon of writings from
which excerpts can be submitted to buttress the assertion.

You would think that once she called your argument 'ingenuous', you
would be quite satisfied to have proven your point.

Was that a Freudian slip? Only the Shadow knows.

That's why I iterated that I wasn't quite sure what she meant. These
folks also don't seem to know the definition of a community organizer
or a revolutionary. They're working with presuppositional definitions
that they deem free of defect. This might help the wayward
antagonist, though;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Organizer

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/revolutionary


--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
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You're starting to sound like an apologist for the right nutcases.

As should be obvious, my apologetics are centered elsewhere.

Now for the occasionally indolent reader that may chance upon this
post, here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia article;

"Community organizing is a process by which people living in proximity
to each other are brought together in an organization to act in their
shared self-interest. Unlike other forms of more consensual "community
building," community organizers generally assume that social change
necessarily involves conflict and social struggle in order to generate
collective power for the powerless. A core goal of community
organizing is to generate durable power for an organization
representing the community, allowing it to influence key
decision-makers on a range of issues over time. In the ideal, for
example, this can get community organizing groups a place at the table
before important decisions are made.[1] Community organizers work with
and develop new local leaders, facilitating coalitions and assisting
in the development of campaigns."


Sounds like early Christianity to me.

Em, the question has to do with whether or not Christ was a community
organizer. Though, what is described in this encyclopedic definition
does not parallel what is described or recorded of the early church.
Early Christianity was set apart from the community-at-large in nearly
all corners of the Roman empire.



Surely you are not connecting jesus with "early christianity." In the
lifetime of jesus, in the area where he lived and preached, there were
jews and there were pagans. There were no christians.


--
If you are flajim, herring, loogy, GC boater, johnson, topbassdog, rob,
achmed the sock puppet, or one of a half dozen others, you're wasting
your time by trying to *communicate* with me through rec.boats, because,
well, you are among the permanent members of my dumbfoch dumpster, and I
don't read the vomit you post, except by accident on occasion. As
always, have a nice, simple-minded day.

Community organization is nothing new
 

On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 14:19:21 -0500, H the K
wrote:

On 11/21/09 2:10 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:04:41 -0500, H the
wrote:

On 11/21/09 11:51 AM, jps wrote:
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:42:41 -0500, H the
wrote:

I dunno, Tim. I was still half asleep this morning when I wrote this.
(My daughter is visiting from Cincy, and we went to the Elks last
night. I stayed up way too late.) But, I know that I didn't seperate
the adjectives by a comma as I should have, for one thing. I suppose
what I wanted to say was;

brazen, loud, clamorous, not-moving-on person who loathes the
"capitalist class"

I can best your ad-hominem spew to a single word to describe you.

I'm certain that those who surround you would agree.


Uh...how did I get into this one?

It's that he finds my missives so unpalatable that he has me filtered,
and he uses others through which to carry on with the conversation.



Ahhh. Well, I don't go that far. I think you're just another right-wing
asshole.

Thank-you, Harry, for facilitating the conversation.

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

Community organization is nothing new
 

On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 14:24:19 -0500, H the K
wrote:

On 11/21/09 2:16 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:39:48 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:38:40 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:45:19 -0500, John
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:34:21 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:00:42 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:59:50 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:59:22 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...


Hitler had his organizers (Brown Shirts) too!

http://www.trib.com/news/opinion/mai...501f759b0.html

And not much unlike ACORN.


Jesus was a community organizer. Why don't you compare Him to
Hitler...

Jesus was a community organizer?

NAS Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the
earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

NAS Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own
father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters,
yes,
and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

NAS Mark 6:4 Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor
except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his own
household."

NAS Matthew 8:4 And Jesus *said to him, "See that you tell no one;
but
go, show yourself to the priest and present the offering that
Moses
commanded, as a testimony to them."


All taken out of context. But, if you believe that He was more
interested
in
profit than people, I'm not sure what I can add.

Any passage or quote taken out of an extant text can be said to be
out
of context. What may be more accurate is to say that I provided no
extensive excerpts to provide additional context. That being said,
though, if Jesus were a community organizer, you should be able to
provide those passages that qualifiably make that case.
Alternately,
I can make the case that Christ was removed from this world before
the
Christian community was "organized" by the apostles and His
disciples.
In the truest since of the word, Christ was a "revolutionary," not
a
community organizer.


There was no such phrase in those times, as you know. Feel free to
tell
me
how bad a community organizer is if that's your intention. I don't
need
to
"provide" passages, and if you knew better, you wouldn't ask. It's a
completely ingenuous argument.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by all of this. There is a panoply
of theological terms, or phrases, that certainly didn't exist in the
time of Christ that are used to describe particular premises,
doctrines, tenets, and manifestations in Biblical scripture. This
fact doesn't detract from the validity of those scriptural components.
Though, "no such phrase" may not have been employed in those days, it
doesn't take away from the fact there may have been community
organizers. In fact, the Apostle Paul comes very close to fitting the
definition. This also is not to suggest that a community organizer is
anathema. What I find offensive is any attempt to describe Christ as
a community organizer in order to elevate the vocation to lofty
heights. Jesus Christ simply was not a community organizer. If
anything, he served as a contrary example. If it is a legitimate
exercise to describe Christ as community organizer, then it's
legitimacy can be adduced from the time-honored canon of writings from
which excerpts can be submitted to buttress the assertion.

You would think that once she called your argument 'ingenuous', you
would be quite satisfied to have proven your point.

Was that a Freudian slip? Only the Shadow knows.

That's why I iterated that I wasn't quite sure what she meant. These
folks also don't seem to know the definition of a community organizer
or a revolutionary. They're working with presuppositional definitions
that they deem free of defect. This might help the wayward
antagonist, though;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Organizer

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/revolutionary


--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access


You're starting to sound like an apologist for the right nutcases.

As should be obvious, my apologetics are centered elsewhere.

Now for the occasionally indolent reader that may chance upon this
post, here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia article;

"Community organizing is a process by which people living in proximity
to each other are brought together in an organization to act in their
shared self-interest. Unlike other forms of more consensual "community
building," community organizers generally assume that social change
necessarily involves conflict and social struggle in order to generate
collective power for the powerless. A core goal of community
organizing is to generate durable power for an organization
representing the community, allowing it to influence key
decision-makers on a range of issues over time. In the ideal, for
example, this can get community organizing groups a place at the table
before important decisions are made.[1] Community organizers work with
and develop new local leaders, facilitating coalitions and assisting
in the development of campaigns."


Sounds like early Christianity to me.

Em, the question has to do with whether or not Christ was a community
organizer. Though, what is described in this encyclopedic definition
does not parallel what is described or recorded of the early church.
Early Christianity was set apart from the community-at-large in nearly
all corners of the Roman empire.



Surely you are not connecting jesus with "early christianity." In the
lifetime of jesus, in the area where he lived and preached, there were
jews and there were pagans. There were no christians.

Why should I need to reiterate the focus of the question? It has to
do with whether or not Christ was a community organizer. This is a
seperate issue as to any parallel of the encyclopedic description of
community organizing and early Christianity. Btw, the earliest
Christians were Jewish, exclusively.

--
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Community organization is nothing new
 

On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 14:19:21 -0500, H the K
wrote:

On 11/21/09 2:10 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:04:41 -0500, H the
wrote:

On 11/21/09 11:51 AM, jps wrote:
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:42:41 -0500, H the
wrote:

I dunno, Tim. I was still half asleep this morning when I wrote this.
(My daughter is visiting from Cincy, and we went to the Elks last
night. I stayed up way too late.) But, I know that I didn't seperate
the adjectives by a comma as I should have, for one thing. I suppose
what I wanted to say was;

brazen, loud, clamorous, not-moving-on person who loathes the
"capitalist class"

I can best your ad-hominem spew to a single word to describe you.

I'm certain that those who surround you would agree.


Uh...how did I get into this one?

It's that he finds my missives so unpalatable that he has me filtered,
and he uses others through which to carry on with the conversation.



Ahhh. Well, I don't go that far. I think you're just another right-wing
asshole.

I think you've managed to use the word I had in mind. Sorry if I
confused, it was indeed meant for the insurance salesman.

I only selectively respond to his tripe. Engaging him directly is a
lost cause. He's a master of deflection and the red herring.

His main foil is the bible, in the spirit of Pat Robertson.

Community organization is nothing new
 

On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:39:48 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:38:40 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:45:19 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:34:21 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:00:42 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:u0tbg5p53o6om8flm9uropquhj5c3j5ipe@4ax .com...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:59:50 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:ir9bg55003or5vckj6sgf0q2qgek6u13vg@4 ax.com...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:59:22 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"TopBassDog" wrote in message
...


Hitler had his organizers (Brown Shirts) too!

http://www.trib.com/news/opinion/mai...501f759b0.html

And not much unlike ACORN.


Jesus was a community organizer. Why don't you compare Him to
Hitler...

Jesus was a community organizer?

NAS Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the
earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

NAS Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own
father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters,
yes,
and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

NAS Mark 6:4 Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor
except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his own
household."

NAS Matthew 8:4 And Jesus *said to him, "See that you tell no one;
but
go, show yourself to the priest and present the offering that
Moses
commanded, as a testimony to them."


All taken out of context. But, if you believe that He was more
interested
in
profit than people, I'm not sure what I can add.

Any passage or quote taken out of an extant text can be said to be
out
of context. What may be more accurate is to say that I provided no
extensive excerpts to provide additional context. That being said,
though, if Jesus were a community organizer, you should be able to
provide those passages that qualifiably make that case.
Alternately,
I can make the case that Christ was removed from this world before
the
Christian community was "organized" by the apostles and His
disciples.
In the truest since of the word, Christ was a "revolutionary," not
a
community organizer.


There was no such phrase in those times, as you know. Feel free to
tell
me
how bad a community organizer is if that's your intention. I don't
need
to
"provide" passages, and if you knew better, you wouldn't ask. It's a
completely ingenuous argument.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by all of this. There is a panoply
of theological terms, or phrases, that certainly didn't exist in the
time of Christ that are used to describe particular premises,
doctrines, tenets, and manifestations in Biblical scripture. This
fact doesn't detract from the validity of those scriptural components.
Though, "no such phrase" may not have been employed in those days, it
doesn't take away from the fact there may have been community
organizers. In fact, the Apostle Paul comes very close to fitting the
definition. This also is not to suggest that a community organizer is
anathema. What I find offensive is any attempt to describe Christ as
a community organizer in order to elevate the vocation to lofty
heights. Jesus Christ simply was not a community organizer. If
anything, he served as a contrary example. If it is a legitimate
exercise to describe Christ as community organizer, then it's
legitimacy can be adduced from the time-honored canon of writings from
which excerpts can be submitted to buttress the assertion.

You would think that once she called your argument 'ingenuous', you
would be quite satisfied to have proven your point.

Was that a Freudian slip? Only the Shadow knows.

That's why I iterated that I wasn't quite sure what she meant. These
folks also don't seem to know the definition of a community organizer
or a revolutionary. They're working with presuppositional definitions
that they deem free of defect. This might help the wayward
antagonist, though;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Organizer

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/revolutionary


--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access


You're starting to sound like an apologist for the right nutcases.

As should be obvious, my apologetics are centered elsewhere.

Now for the occasionally indolent reader that may chance upon this
post, here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia article;

"Community organizing is a process by which people living in proximity
to each other are brought together in an organization to act in their
shared self-interest. Unlike other forms of more consensual "community
building," community organizers generally assume that social change
necessarily involves conflict and social struggle in order to generate
collective power for the powerless. A core goal of community
organizing is to generate durable power for an organization
representing the community, allowing it to influence key
decision-makers on a range of issues over time. In the ideal, for
example, this can get community organizing groups a place at the table
before important decisions are made.[1] Community organizers work with
and develop new local leaders, facilitating coalitions and assisting
in the development of campaigns."


Sounds like early Christianity to me.

It was a Jewish faction organized around him and his ideas. He was
appealing to those who found his message to be in their self interest.
Sure sounds like a community organizer to me.

I'm sure there'll be some bible verses upcoming that'll cast Jesus
otherwise, interpretationally.

Community organization is nothing new
 

On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:19:42 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:55:04 -0600, wrote:

snipped

A confusion or bro. we gotta find another name.....

http://tinyurl.com/yejhe29

Peacekeeping through war. Excellent.

Community organization is nothing new
 

On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:38:04 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:37:06 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:38:31 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
om...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:08:02 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:e3pdg5h3e1h6e0tob9quq9k0v6d5ckktag@4ax .com...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:31:32 -0500, H the K
wrote:

On 11/20/09 1:19 PM, wrote:

So, I take it that you decline to submit evidential material to
confirm his role as a community organizer?


Jesus can be whatever you want..., just as "the bible" can prove or
disprove any belief you have.

As an example, to me, if he existed at all, Jesus was a pretty cool
dude
with some socially acceptable ideas about his fellow man who spent
his
life preaching his vision of Judaism to Jews in the general area in
which he supposedly lived, and who had no idea or desire to convert
Jews
or pagans to a new religion. As with every other religion,
Christianity
is a creation of man.

If Jesus was a pretty cool dude, then he's so simply because you've
created Him that way in your own mind?


Can't speak for Harry, but He was a "cool dude" because of his
message
of
peace, acceptance, and healing.

His message like this?

NAS Mark 9:19 And He *answered them and *said, "O unbelieving
generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up with
you? Bring him to Me!"


As I said... out of context. You're starting to sound silly. If you
don't
like Jesus' message, why not just say so.

You don't seem to know what His message is. And I'm certain that you
are unable to articulate what the context of Mark 9:19 is.


I'm sure you're able to tell us. In any case, this has nothing to do with
the vitriol from the right. Or, maybe it does.

Hopefully you're not ready to venture into the ignoble domain of the
circumstantial ad hominem. Few go there and return to the land of
reason.


Not sure what you're talking about. It's a fact that what I said was
accurate about the right. Don't you remember Rudy's little convention
speech.

Circumstantial ad hominem?

As if he hasn't provided enough direct proof of his fundy idiocy?

I know, we can figure it out by having a bible quoting contest!

Community organization is nothing new
 

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:04:41 -0500, H the K
wrote:

On 11/21/09 11:51 AM, jps wrote:
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:42:41 -0500, H the
wrote:

I dunno, Tim. I was still half asleep this morning when I wrote this.
(My daughter is visiting from Cincy, and we went to the Elks last
night. I stayed up way too late.) But, I know that I didn't seperate
the adjectives by a comma as I should have, for one thing. I suppose
what I wanted to say was;

brazen, loud, clamorous, not-moving-on person who loathes the
"capitalist class"

I can best your ad-hominem spew to a single word to describe you.

I'm certain that those who surround you would agree.


Uh...how did I get into this one?

It's that he finds my missives so unpalatable that he has me filtered,
and he uses others through which to carry on with the conversation.


lol! Thats kinda like watching football games on tv's at Walmart.

I just wish that Walmart would provide seats.

Community organization is nothing new
 

On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:39:39 -0600, "Candy Man"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:04:41 -0500, H the K
wrote:

On 11/21/09 11:51 AM, jps wrote:
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:42:41 -0500, H the
wrote:

I dunno, Tim. I was still half asleep this morning when I wrote this.
(My daughter is visiting from Cincy, and we went to the Elks last
night. I stayed up way too late.) But, I know that I didn't seperate
the adjectives by a comma as I should have, for one thing. I suppose
what I wanted to say was;

brazen, loud, clamorous, not-moving-on person who loathes the
"capitalist class"

I can best your ad-hominem spew to a single word to describe you.

I'm certain that those who surround you would agree.


Uh...how did I get into this one?

It's that he finds my missives so unpalatable that he has me filtered,
and he uses others through which to carry on with the conversation.


lol! Thats kinda like watching football games on tv's at Walmart.

I just wish that Walmart would provide seats.

A Walmart shopper. Yup. A conservative who likes sending money to
China, as long as he gets the lowest price!!!

GOP, The **** America Party.

Community organization is nothing new
 

"jps" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:38:04 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:37:06 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:38:31 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:nkqdg5t8v49g1t8tm7oci5mq8qonqo12gb@4ax. com...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:08:02 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:e3pdg5h3e1h6e0tob9quq9k0v6d5ckktag@4a x.com...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:31:32 -0500, H the K
wrote:

On 11/20/09 1:19 PM, wrote:

So, I take it that you decline to submit evidential material to
confirm his role as a community organizer?


Jesus can be whatever you want..., just as "the bible" can prove
or
disprove any belief you have.

As an example, to me, if he existed at all, Jesus was a pretty
cool
dude
with some socially acceptable ideas about his fellow man who spent
his
life preaching his vision of Judaism to Jews in the general area
in
which he supposedly lived, and who had no idea or desire to
convert
Jews
or pagans to a new religion. As with every other religion,
Christianity
is a creation of man.

If Jesus was a pretty cool dude, then he's so simply because
you've
created Him that way in your own mind?


Can't speak for Harry, but He was a "cool dude" because of his
message
of
peace, acceptance, and healing.

His message like this?

NAS Mark 9:19 And He *answered them and *said, "O unbelieving
generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up
with
you? Bring him to Me!"


As I said... out of context. You're starting to sound silly. If you
don't
like Jesus' message, why not just say so.

You don't seem to know what His message is. And I'm certain that you
are unable to articulate what the context of Mark 9:19 is.


I'm sure you're able to tell us. In any case, this has nothing to do
with
the vitriol from the right. Or, maybe it does.

Hopefully you're not ready to venture into the ignoble domain of the
circumstantial ad hominem. Few go there and return to the land of
reason.


Not sure what you're talking about. It's a fact that what I said was
accurate about the right. Don't you remember Rudy's little convention
speech.

Circumstantial ad hominem?

As if he hasn't provided enough direct proof of his fundy idiocy?

I know, we can figure it out by having a bible quoting contest!

ROFL! What contest, dude? You haven't quoted or cited anything! you've
tied yourself into knots trying to keep up. how do you know the guys a
fundy anyway? Just because he's done the research and you havent? Your a
winner alright!

Community organization is nothing new
 

On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:49:43 -0600, "Candy Man"
wrote:


"jps" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:38:04 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:37:06 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
om...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:38:31 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:nkqdg5t8v49g1t8tm7oci5mq8qonqo12gb@4ax .com...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:08:02 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:e3pdg5h3e1h6e0tob9quq9k0v6d5ckktag@4 ax.com...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:31:32 -0500, H the K
wrote:

On 11/20/09 1:19 PM, wrote:

So, I take it that you decline to submit evidential material to
confirm his role as a community organizer?


Jesus can be whatever you want..., just as "the bible" can prove
or
disprove any belief you have.

As an example, to me, if he existed at all, Jesus was a pretty
cool
dude
with some socially acceptable ideas about his fellow man who spent
his
life preaching his vision of Judaism to Jews in the general area
in
which he supposedly lived, and who had no idea or desire to
convert
Jews
or pagans to a new religion. As with every other religion,
Christianity
is a creation of man.

If Jesus was a pretty cool dude, then he's so simply because
you've
created Him that way in your own mind?


Can't speak for Harry, but He was a "cool dude" because of his
message
of
peace, acceptance, and healing.

His message like this?

NAS Mark 9:19 And He *answered them and *said, "O unbelieving
generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up
with
you? Bring him to Me!"


As I said... out of context. You're starting to sound silly. If you
don't
like Jesus' message, why not just say so.

You don't seem to know what His message is. And I'm certain that you
are unable to articulate what the context of Mark 9:19 is.


I'm sure you're able to tell us. In any case, this has nothing to do
with
the vitriol from the right. Or, maybe it does.

Hopefully you're not ready to venture into the ignoble domain of the
circumstantial ad hominem. Few go there and return to the land of
reason.


Not sure what you're talking about. It's a fact that what I said was
accurate about the right. Don't you remember Rudy's little convention
speech.

Circumstantial ad hominem?

As if he hasn't provided enough direct proof of his fundy idiocy?

I know, we can figure it out by having a bible quoting contest!

ROFL! What contest, dude? You haven't quoted or cited anything! you've
tied yourself into knots trying to keep up. how do you know the guys a
fundy anyway? Just because he's done the research and you havent? Your a
winner alright!

I live in the modern world have no regard for those who need bible
passages to guide their existence.

The passages he's quoting could be interpretted to mean whatever
argument he'd like to make. It's a ruse. Evidently, you buy into
bull**** easily since you think he's actually made a point.

He or I could quote several passages that confirm your behavior is
reason for you to be stoned to death.

I prefer dictionary definitions, and from my knowledge of the
historical accounts of his life, the one posted here for community
organizer fits Jesus fine.

The bible is full of easily manipulated phrases that the disingenuous
use to impart false value to poorly constructed arguments.

Jesus was a community organizer.

Here, learn something about him...

http://www.lcurve.org/writings/BiblicalLiberal.htm

Community organization is nothing new
 

jps wrote:

The bible is full of easily manipulated phrases that the disingenuous
use to impart false value to poorly constructed arguments.

Jesus was a community organizer.

Here, learn something about him...

http://www.lcurve.org/writings/BiblicalLiberal.htm

You are right The link you posted is pure liberal spin.

Community organization is nothing new
 

I could quote several passages that confirm your behavior is
reason for you to be stoned to death.

You can? Ok then. show me. I'm here all week.

Or are you going to pull another dodge?

Community organization is nothing new
 

"Candy Man" wrote in message
...

"jps" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:38:04 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:37:06 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
om...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:38:31 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:nkqdg5t8v49g1t8tm7oci5mq8qonqo12gb@4ax .com...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:08:02 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:e3pdg5h3e1h6e0tob9quq9k0v6d5ckktag@4 ax.com...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:31:32 -0500, H the K
wrote:

On 11/20/09 1:19 PM, wrote:

So, I take it that you decline to submit evidential material to
confirm his role as a community organizer?


Jesus can be whatever you want..., just as "the bible" can prove
or
disprove any belief you have.

As an example, to me, if he existed at all, Jesus was a pretty
cool
dude
with some socially acceptable ideas about his fellow man who
spent
his
life preaching his vision of Judaism to Jews in the general area
in
which he supposedly lived, and who had no idea or desire to
convert
Jews
or pagans to a new religion. As with every other religion,
Christianity
is a creation of man.

If Jesus was a pretty cool dude, then he's so simply because
you've
created Him that way in your own mind?


Can't speak for Harry, but He was a "cool dude" because of his
message
of
peace, acceptance, and healing.

His message like this?

NAS Mark 9:19 And He *answered them and *said, "O unbelieving
generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up
with
you? Bring him to Me!"


As I said... out of context. You're starting to sound silly. If you
don't
like Jesus' message, why not just say so.

You don't seem to know what His message is. And I'm certain that you
are unable to articulate what the context of Mark 9:19 is.


I'm sure you're able to tell us. In any case, this has nothing to do
with
the vitriol from the right. Or, maybe it does.

Hopefully you're not ready to venture into the ignoble domain of the
circumstantial ad hominem. Few go there and return to the land of
reason.


Not sure what you're talking about. It's a fact that what I said was
accurate about the right. Don't you remember Rudy's little convention
speech.

Circumstantial ad hominem?

As if he hasn't provided enough direct proof of his fundy idiocy?

I know, we can figure it out by having a bible quoting contest!

ROFL! What contest, dude? You haven't quoted or cited anything! you've
tied yourself into knots trying to keep up. how do you know the guys a
fundy anyway? Just because he's done the research and you havent? Your a
winner alright!

Research? He quoted some passages out of context.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Community organization is nothing new
 

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:39:48 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:38:40 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:45:19 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:34:21 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:00:42 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:u0tbg5p53o6om8flm9uropquhj5c3j5ipe@4a x.com...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:59:50 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:ir9bg55003or5vckj6sgf0q2qgek6u13vg@ 4ax.com...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:59:22 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"TopBassDog" wrote in message
...


Hitler had his organizers (Brown Shirts) too!

http://www.trib.com/news/opinion/mai...501f759b0.html

And not much unlike ACORN.


Jesus was a community organizer. Why don't you compare Him to
Hitler...

Jesus was a community organizer?

NAS Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on
the
earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

NAS Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own
father and mother and wife and children and brothers and
sisters,
yes,
and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

NAS Mark 6:4 Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor
except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his
own
household."

NAS Matthew 8:4 And Jesus *said to him, "See that you tell no
one;
but
go, show yourself to the priest and present the offering that
Moses
commanded, as a testimony to them."


All taken out of context. But, if you believe that He was more
interested
in
profit than people, I'm not sure what I can add.

Any passage or quote taken out of an extant text can be said to be
out
of context. What may be more accurate is to say that I provided
no
extensive excerpts to provide additional context. That being
said,
though, if Jesus were a community organizer, you should be able to
provide those passages that qualifiably make that case.
Alternately,
I can make the case that Christ was removed from this world before
the
Christian community was "organized" by the apostles and His
disciples.
In the truest since of the word, Christ was a "revolutionary,"
not
a
community organizer.


There was no such phrase in those times, as you know. Feel free to
tell
me
how bad a community organizer is if that's your intention. I don't
need
to
"provide" passages, and if you knew better, you wouldn't ask. It's a
completely ingenuous argument.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by all of this. There is a panoply
of theological terms, or phrases, that certainly didn't exist in the
time of Christ that are used to describe particular premises,
doctrines, tenets, and manifestations in Biblical scripture. This
fact doesn't detract from the validity of those scriptural
components.
Though, "no such phrase" may not have been employed in those days, it
doesn't take away from the fact there may have been community
organizers. In fact, the Apostle Paul comes very close to fitting
the
definition. This also is not to suggest that a community organizer
is
anathema. What I find offensive is any attempt to describe Christ as
a community organizer in order to elevate the vocation to lofty
heights. Jesus Christ simply was not a community organizer. If
anything, he served as a contrary example. If it is a legitimate
exercise to describe Christ as community organizer, then it's
legitimacy can be adduced from the time-honored canon of writings
from
which excerpts can be submitted to buttress the assertion.

You would think that once she called your argument 'ingenuous', you
would be quite satisfied to have proven your point.

Was that a Freudian slip? Only the Shadow knows.

That's why I iterated that I wasn't quite sure what she meant. These
folks also don't seem to know the definition of a community organizer
or a revolutionary. They're working with presuppositional definitions
that they deem free of defect. This might help the wayward
antagonist, though;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Organizer

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/revolutionary


--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access


You're starting to sound like an apologist for the right nutcases.

As should be obvious, my apologetics are centered elsewhere.

Now for the occasionally indolent reader that may chance upon this
post, here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia article;

"Community organizing is a process by which people living in proximity
to each other are brought together in an organization to act in their
shared self-interest. Unlike other forms of more consensual "community
building," community organizers generally assume that social change
necessarily involves conflict and social struggle in order to generate
collective power for the powerless. A core goal of community
organizing is to generate durable power for an organization
representing the community, allowing it to influence key
decision-makers on a range of issues over time. In the ideal, for
example, this can get community organizing groups a place at the table
before important decisions are made.[1] Community organizers work with
and develop new local leaders, facilitating coalitions and assisting
in the development of campaigns."


Sounds like early Christianity to me.

Em, the question has to do with whether or not Christ was a community
organizer. Though, what is described in this encyclopedic definition
does not parallel what is described or recorded of the early church.
Early Christianity was set apart from the community-at-large in nearly
all corners of the Roman empire.


No the question is whether or not the extreme right tried to use community
organizing against Obama in the election. This has nothing to do with Jesus
or the organizing he was a part of.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Community organization is nothing new
 

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 14:24:19 -0500, H the K
wrote:

On 11/21/09 2:16 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:39:48 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:38:40 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:45:19 -0500, John
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:34:21 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:00:42 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:59:50 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:59:22 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...


Hitler had his organizers (Brown Shirts) too!

http://www.trib.com/news/opinion/mai...501f759b0.html

And not much unlike ACORN.


Jesus was a community organizer. Why don't you compare Him to
Hitler...

Jesus was a community organizer?

NAS Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on
the
earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

NAS Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his
own
father and mother and wife and children and brothers and
sisters,
yes,
and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

NAS Mark 6:4 Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without
honor
except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his
own
household."

NAS Matthew 8:4 And Jesus *said to him, "See that you tell no
one;
but
go, show yourself to the priest and present the offering that
Moses
commanded, as a testimony to them."


All taken out of context. But, if you believe that He was more
interested
in
profit than people, I'm not sure what I can add.

Any passage or quote taken out of an extant text can be said to
be
out
of context. What may be more accurate is to say that I provided
no
extensive excerpts to provide additional context. That being
said,
though, if Jesus were a community organizer, you should be able
to
provide those passages that qualifiably make that case.
Alternately,
I can make the case that Christ was removed from this world
before
the
Christian community was "organized" by the apostles and His
disciples.
In the truest since of the word, Christ was a "revolutionary,"
not
a
community organizer.


There was no such phrase in those times, as you know. Feel free
to
tell
me
how bad a community organizer is if that's your intention. I
don't
need
to
"provide" passages, and if you knew better, you wouldn't ask.
It's a
completely ingenuous argument.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by all of this. There is a
panoply
of theological terms, or phrases, that certainly didn't exist in
the
time of Christ that are used to describe particular premises,
doctrines, tenets, and manifestations in Biblical scripture.
This
fact doesn't detract from the validity of those scriptural
components.
Though, "no such phrase" may not have been employed in those days,
it
doesn't take away from the fact there may have been community
organizers. In fact, the Apostle Paul comes very close to fitting
the
definition. This also is not to suggest that a community
organizer is
anathema. What I find offensive is any attempt to describe Christ
as
a community organizer in order to elevate the vocation to lofty
heights. Jesus Christ simply was not a community organizer. If
anything, he served as a contrary example. If it is a legitimate
exercise to describe Christ as community organizer, then it's
legitimacy can be adduced from the time-honored canon of writings
from
which excerpts can be submitted to buttress the assertion.

You would think that once she called your argument 'ingenuous', you
would be quite satisfied to have proven your point.

Was that a Freudian slip? Only the Shadow knows.

That's why I iterated that I wasn't quite sure what she meant.
These
folks also don't seem to know the definition of a community
organizer
or a revolutionary. They're working with presuppositional
definitions
that they deem free of defect. This might help the wayward
antagonist, though;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Organizer

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/revolutionary


--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access


You're starting to sound like an apologist for the right nutcases.

As should be obvious, my apologetics are centered elsewhere.

Now for the occasionally indolent reader that may chance upon this
post, here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia article;

"Community organizing is a process by which people living in proximity
to each other are brought together in an organization to act in their
shared self-interest. Unlike other forms of more consensual "community
building," community organizers generally assume that social change
necessarily involves conflict and social struggle in order to generate
collective power for the powerless. A core goal of community
organizing is to generate durable power for an organization
representing the community, allowing it to influence key
decision-makers on a range of issues over time. In the ideal, for
example, this can get community organizing groups a place at the table
before important decisions are made.[1] Community organizers work with
and develop new local leaders, facilitating coalitions and assisting
in the development of campaigns."


Sounds like early Christianity to me.

Em, the question has to do with whether or not Christ was a community
organizer. Though, what is described in this encyclopedic definition
does not parallel what is described or recorded of the early church.
Early Christianity was set apart from the community-at-large in nearly
all corners of the Roman empire.



Surely you are not connecting jesus with "early christianity." In the
lifetime of jesus, in the area where he lived and preached, there were
jews and there were pagans. There were no christians.

Why should I need to reiterate the focus of the question? It has to
do with whether or not Christ was a community organizer. This is a
seperate issue as to any parallel of the encyclopedic description of
community organizing and early Christianity. Btw, the earliest
Christians were Jewish, exclusively.


No it doesn't. If you're genuine in your desire for honest debate, you'll
need to acknowledge the right's attack on Obama for him being a community
organizer.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Community organization is nothing new
 

On Nov 21, 8:16*pm, jps wrote:
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:49:43 -0600, "Candy Man"



wrote:

"jps" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:38:04 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:37:06 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
om...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:38:31 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:nkqdg5t8v49g1t8tm7oci5mq8qonqo12gb@4ax .com...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:08:02 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:e3pdg5h3e1h6e0tob9quq9k0v6d5ckktag@4 ax.com...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:31:32 -0500, H the K
wrote:

On 11/20/09 1:19 PM, wrote:

So, I take it that you decline to submit evidential material to
confirm his role as a community organizer?

Jesus can be whatever you want..., just as "the bible" can prove
or
disprove any belief you have.

As an example, to me, if he existed at all, Jesus was a pretty
cool
dude
with some socially acceptable ideas about his fellow man who spent
his
life preaching his vision of Judaism to Jews in the general area
in
which he supposedly lived, and who had no idea or desire to
convert
Jews
or pagans to a new religion. As with every other religion,
Christianity
is a creation of man.

If Jesus was a pretty cool dude, then he's so simply because
you've
created Him that way in your own mind?

Can't speak for Harry, but He was a "cool dude" because of *his
message
of
peace, acceptance, and healing.

His message like this?

NAS Mark 9:19 And He *answered them and *said, "O unbelieving
generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up
with
you? Bring him to Me!"

As I said... out of context. You're starting to sound silly. If you
don't
like Jesus' message, why not just say so.

You don't seem to know what His message is. *And I'm certain that you
are unable to articulate what the context of Mark 9:19 is.

I'm sure you're able to tell us. In any case, this has nothing to do
with
the vitriol from the right. Or, maybe it does.

Hopefully you're not ready to venture into the ignoble domain of the
circumstantial ad hominem. *Few go there and return to the land of
reason.

Not sure what you're talking about. It's a fact that what I said was
accurate about the right. Don't you remember Rudy's little convention
speech.

Circumstantial ad hominem?

As if he hasn't provided enough direct proof of his fundy idiocy?

I know, we can figure it out by having a bible quoting contest!

ROFL! *What contest, dude? *You haven't quoted or cited anything! *you've
tied yourself into knots trying to keep up. *how do you know the guys a
fundy anyway? *Just because he's done the research and you havent? *Your a
winner alright!

I live in the modern world have no regard for those who need bible
passages to guide their existence.

The passages he's quoting could be interpretted to mean whatever
argument he'd like to make. *It's a ruse. *Evidently, you buy into
bull**** easily since you think he's actually made a point.

He or I could quote several passages that confirm your behavior is
reason for you to be stoned to death.

I prefer dictionary definitions, and from my knowledge of the
historical accounts of his life, the one posted here for community
organizer fits Jesus fine. *

The bible is full of easily manipulated phrases that the disingenuous
use to impart false value to poorly constructed arguments.

Jesus was a community organizer.

Here, learn something about him...

http://www.lcurve.org/writings/BiblicalLiberal.htm

David Chandler never mentioned community "organizer" or "organizing"
in that link.

Take your own advice and learn more yourself.. The Christ was, and is
a Liberator, not a liberal.

There is a difference.

Community organization is nothing new
 

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Candy Man" wrote in message
...

"jps" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:38:04 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:37:06 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:k21fg5tc1hq4i1n6ovdhuvlnbaft2vf7dn@4ax. com...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:38:31 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:nkqdg5t8v49g1t8tm7oci5mq8qonqo12gb@4a x.com...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:08:02 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:e3pdg5h3e1h6e0tob9quq9k0v6d5ckktag@ 4ax.com...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:31:32 -0500, H the K
wrote:

On 11/20/09 1:19 PM, wrote:

So, I take it that you decline to submit evidential material
to
confirm his role as a community organizer?


Jesus can be whatever you want..., just as "the bible" can prove
or
disprove any belief you have.

As an example, to me, if he existed at all, Jesus was a pretty
cool
dude
with some socially acceptable ideas about his fellow man who
spent
his
life preaching his vision of Judaism to Jews in the general area
in
which he supposedly lived, and who had no idea or desire to
convert
Jews
or pagans to a new religion. As with every other religion,
Christianity
is a creation of man.

If Jesus was a pretty cool dude, then he's so simply because
you've
created Him that way in your own mind?


Can't speak for Harry, but He was a "cool dude" because of his
message
of
peace, acceptance, and healing.

His message like this?

NAS Mark 9:19 And He *answered them and *said, "O unbelieving
generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up
with
you? Bring him to Me!"


As I said... out of context. You're starting to sound silly. If you
don't
like Jesus' message, why not just say so.

You don't seem to know what His message is. And I'm certain that
you
are unable to articulate what the context of Mark 9:19 is.


I'm sure you're able to tell us. In any case, this has nothing to do
with
the vitriol from the right. Or, maybe it does.

Hopefully you're not ready to venture into the ignoble domain of the
circumstantial ad hominem. Few go there and return to the land of
reason.


Not sure what you're talking about. It's a fact that what I said was
accurate about the right. Don't you remember Rudy's little convention
speech.

Circumstantial ad hominem?

As if he hasn't provided enough direct proof of his fundy idiocy?

I know, we can figure it out by having a bible quoting contest!

ROFL! What contest, dude? You haven't quoted or cited anything! you've
tied yourself into knots trying to keep up. how do you know the guys a
fundy anyway? Just because he's done the research and you havent? Your
a winner alright!

Research? He quoted some passages out of context.


Everything he quoted directly contradicted you what guys are saying so that
tells me that the guy has done his homework. you and jps haven't shown how
what he has quoted is out of context in anyway at all. That tells me that
you guys don't have a clue.

Community organization is nothing new
 

On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:38:20 -0600, "Candy Man"
wrote:

I could quote several passages that confirm your behavior is
reason for you to be stoned to death.

You can? Ok then. show me. I'm here all week.

Or are you going to pull another dodge?

I didn't offer to, I said I could. No sock puppet is worth the
investment of time. Have a nice weekend.

Community organization is nothing new
 

On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:10:26 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 14:24:19 -0500, H the K
wrote:

On 11/21/09 2:16 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:39:48 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:38:40 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:45:19 -0500, John
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:34:21 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:00:42 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:59:50 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:59:22 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...


Hitler had his organizers (Brown Shirts) too!

http://www.trib.com/news/opinion/mai...501f759b0.html

And not much unlike ACORN.


Jesus was a community organizer. Why don't you compare Him to
Hitler...

Jesus was a community organizer?

NAS Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on
the
earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

NAS Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his
own
father and mother and wife and children and brothers and
sisters,
yes,
and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

NAS Mark 6:4 Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without
honor
except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his
own
household."

NAS Matthew 8:4 And Jesus *said to him, "See that you tell no
one;
but
go, show yourself to the priest and present the offering that
Moses
commanded, as a testimony to them."


All taken out of context. But, if you believe that He was more
interested
in
profit than people, I'm not sure what I can add.

Any passage or quote taken out of an extant text can be said to
be
out
of context. What may be more accurate is to say that I provided
no
extensive excerpts to provide additional context. That being
said,
though, if Jesus were a community organizer, you should be able
to
provide those passages that qualifiably make that case.
Alternately,
I can make the case that Christ was removed from this world
before
the
Christian community was "organized" by the apostles and His
disciples.
In the truest since of the word, Christ was a "revolutionary,"
not
a
community organizer.


There was no such phrase in those times, as you know. Feel free
to
tell
me
how bad a community organizer is if that's your intention. I
don't
need
to
"provide" passages, and if you knew better, you wouldn't ask.
It's a
completely ingenuous argument.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by all of this. There is a
panoply
of theological terms, or phrases, that certainly didn't exist in
the
time of Christ that are used to describe particular premises,
doctrines, tenets, and manifestations in Biblical scripture.
This
fact doesn't detract from the validity of those scriptural
components.
Though, "no such phrase" may not have been employed in those days,
it
doesn't take away from the fact there may have been community
organizers. In fact, the Apostle Paul comes very close to fitting
the
definition. This also is not to suggest that a community
organizer is
anathema. What I find offensive is any attempt to describe Christ
as
a community organizer in order to elevate the vocation to lofty
heights. Jesus Christ simply was not a community organizer. If
anything, he served as a contrary example. If it is a legitimate
exercise to describe Christ as community organizer, then it's
legitimacy can be adduced from the time-honored canon of writings
from
which excerpts can be submitted to buttress the assertion.

You would think that once she called your argument 'ingenuous', you
would be quite satisfied to have proven your point.

Was that a Freudian slip? Only the Shadow knows.

That's why I iterated that I wasn't quite sure what she meant.
These
folks also don't seem to know the definition of a community
organizer
or a revolutionary. They're working with presuppositional
definitions
that they deem free of defect. This might help the wayward
antagonist, though;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Organizer

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/revolutionary


--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access


You're starting to sound like an apologist for the right nutcases.

As should be obvious, my apologetics are centered elsewhere.

Now for the occasionally indolent reader that may chance upon this
post, here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia article;

"Community organizing is a process by which people living in proximity
to each other are brought together in an organization to act in their
shared self-interest. Unlike other forms of more consensual "community
building," community organizers generally assume that social change
necessarily involves conflict and social struggle in order to generate
collective power for the powerless. A core goal of community
organizing is to generate durable power for an organization
representing the community, allowing it to influence key
decision-makers on a range of issues over time. In the ideal, for
example, this can get community organizing groups a place at the table
before important decisions are made.[1] Community organizers work with
and develop new local leaders, facilitating coalitions and assisting
in the development of campaigns."


Sounds like early Christianity to me.

Em, the question has to do with whether or not Christ was a community
organizer. Though, what is described in this encyclopedic definition
does not parallel what is described or recorded of the early church.
Early Christianity was set apart from the community-at-large in nearly
all corners of the Roman empire.



Surely you are not connecting jesus with "early christianity." In the
lifetime of jesus, in the area where he lived and preached, there were
jews and there were pagans. There were no christians.

Why should I need to reiterate the focus of the question? It has to
do with whether or not Christ was a community organizer. This is a
seperate issue as to any parallel of the encyclopedic description of
community organizing and early Christianity. Btw, the earliest
Christians were Jewish, exclusively.


No it doesn't. If you're genuine in your desire for honest debate, you'll
need to acknowledge the right's attack on Obama for him being a community
organizer.

Good luck.

Community organization is nothing new
 

"jps" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:38:20 -0600, "Candy Man"
wrote:

I could quote several passages that confirm your behavior is
reason for you to be stoned to death.

You can? Ok then. show me. I'm here all week.

Or are you going to pull another dodge?

I didn't offer to, I said I could. No sock puppet is worth the
investment of time. Have a nice weekend.

You must be heading out for a car show. Nice dodge.

Community organization is nothing new
 

On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 00:43:37 -0600, "Candy Man"
wrote:


"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Candy Man" wrote in message
...

"jps" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:38:04 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
om...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:37:06 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:k21fg5tc1hq4i1n6ovdhuvlnbaft2vf7dn@4ax .com...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:38:31 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:nkqdg5t8v49g1t8tm7oci5mq8qonqo12gb@4 ax.com...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:08:02 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:e3pdg5h3e1h6e0tob9quq9k0v6d5ckktag @4ax.com...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:31:32 -0500, H the K
wrote:

On 11/20/09 1:19 PM, wrote:

So, I take it that you decline to submit evidential material
to
confirm his role as a community organizer?


Jesus can be whatever you want..., just as "the bible" can prove
or
disprove any belief you have.

As an example, to me, if he existed at all, Jesus was a pretty
cool
dude
with some socially acceptable ideas about his fellow man who
spent
his
life preaching his vision of Judaism to Jews in the general area
in
which he supposedly lived, and who had no idea or desire to
convert
Jews
or pagans to a new religion. As with every other religion,
Christianity
is a creation of man.

If Jesus was a pretty cool dude, then he's so simply because
you've
created Him that way in your own mind?


Can't speak for Harry, but He was a "cool dude" because of his
message
of
peace, acceptance, and healing.

His message like this?

NAS Mark 9:19 And He *answered them and *said, "O unbelieving
generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up
with
you? Bring him to Me!"


As I said... out of context. You're starting to sound silly. If you
don't
like Jesus' message, why not just say so.

You don't seem to know what His message is. And I'm certain that
you
are unable to articulate what the context of Mark 9:19 is.


I'm sure you're able to tell us. In any case, this has nothing to do
with
the vitriol from the right. Or, maybe it does.

Hopefully you're not ready to venture into the ignoble domain of the
circumstantial ad hominem. Few go there and return to the land of
reason.


Not sure what you're talking about. It's a fact that what I said was
accurate about the right. Don't you remember Rudy's little convention
speech.

Circumstantial ad hominem?

As if he hasn't provided enough direct proof of his fundy idiocy?

I know, we can figure it out by having a bible quoting contest!

ROFL! What contest, dude? You haven't quoted or cited anything! you've
tied yourself into knots trying to keep up. how do you know the guys a
fundy anyway? Just because he's done the research and you havent? Your
a winner alright!

Research? He quoted some passages out of context.


Everything he quoted directly contradicted you what guys are saying so that
tells me that the guy has done his homework. you and jps haven't shown how
what he has quoted is out of context in anyway at all. That tells me that
you guys don't have a clue.

Your logic is what doesn't have a clue.

Community organization is nothing new
 

On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:09:22 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:39:48 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:38:40 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
om...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:45:19 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:34:21 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:00:42 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:u0tbg5p53o6om8flm9uropquhj5c3j5ipe@4 ax.com...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:59:50 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:ir9bg55003or5vckj6sgf0q2qgek6u13vg @4ax.com...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:59:22 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"TopBassDog" wrote in message
...


Hitler had his organizers (Brown Shirts) too!

http://www.trib.com/news/opinion/mai...501f759b0.html

And not much unlike ACORN.


Jesus was a community organizer. Why don't you compare Him to
Hitler...

Jesus was a community organizer?

NAS Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on
the
earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

NAS Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own
father and mother and wife and children and brothers and
sisters,
yes,
and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

NAS Mark 6:4 Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor
except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his
own
household."

NAS Matthew 8:4 And Jesus *said to him, "See that you tell no
one;
but
go, show yourself to the priest and present the offering that
Moses
commanded, as a testimony to them."


All taken out of context. But, if you believe that He was more
interested
in
profit than people, I'm not sure what I can add.

Any passage or quote taken out of an extant text can be said to be
out
of context. What may be more accurate is to say that I provided
no
extensive excerpts to provide additional context. That being
said,
though, if Jesus were a community organizer, you should be able to
provide those passages that qualifiably make that case.
Alternately,
I can make the case that Christ was removed from this world before
the
Christian community was "organized" by the apostles and His
disciples.
In the truest since of the word, Christ was a "revolutionary,"
not
a
community organizer.


There was no such phrase in those times, as you know. Feel free to
tell
me
how bad a community organizer is if that's your intention. I don't
need
to
"provide" passages, and if you knew better, you wouldn't ask. It's a
completely ingenuous argument.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by all of this. There is a panoply
of theological terms, or phrases, that certainly didn't exist in the
time of Christ that are used to describe particular premises,
doctrines, tenets, and manifestations in Biblical scripture. This
fact doesn't detract from the validity of those scriptural
components.
Though, "no such phrase" may not have been employed in those days, it
doesn't take away from the fact there may have been community
organizers. In fact, the Apostle Paul comes very close to fitting
the
definition. This also is not to suggest that a community organizer
is
anathema. What I find offensive is any attempt to describe Christ as
a community organizer in order to elevate the vocation to lofty
heights. Jesus Christ simply was not a community organizer. If
anything, he served as a contrary example. If it is a legitimate
exercise to describe Christ as community organizer, then it's
legitimacy can be adduced from the time-honored canon of writings
from
which excerpts can be submitted to buttress the assertion.

You would think that once she called your argument 'ingenuous', you
would be quite satisfied to have proven your point.

Was that a Freudian slip? Only the Shadow knows.

That's why I iterated that I wasn't quite sure what she meant. These
folks also don't seem to know the definition of a community organizer
or a revolutionary. They're working with presuppositional definitions
that they deem free of defect. This might help the wayward
antagonist, though;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Organizer

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/revolutionary


--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access


You're starting to sound like an apologist for the right nutcases.

As should be obvious, my apologetics are centered elsewhere.

Now for the occasionally indolent reader that may chance upon this
post, here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia article;

"Community organizing is a process by which people living in proximity
to each other are brought together in an organization to act in their
shared self-interest. Unlike other forms of more consensual "community
building," community organizers generally assume that social change
necessarily involves conflict and social struggle in order to generate
collective power for the powerless. A core goal of community
organizing is to generate durable power for an organization
representing the community, allowing it to influence key
decision-makers on a range of issues over time. In the ideal, for
example, this can get community organizing groups a place at the table
before important decisions are made.[1] Community organizers work with
and develop new local leaders, facilitating coalitions and assisting
in the development of campaigns."


Sounds like early Christianity to me.

Em, the question has to do with whether or not Christ was a community
organizer. Though, what is described in this encyclopedic definition
does not parallel what is described or recorded of the early church.
Early Christianity was set apart from the community-at-large in nearly
all corners of the Roman empire.


No the question is whether or not the extreme right tried to use community
organizing against Obama in the election. This has nothing to do with Jesus
or the organizing he was a part of.

You have a good day today, Em.

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

Community organization is nothing new
 

"Candy Man" wrote in message
...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Candy Man" wrote in message
...

"jps" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:38:04 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
om...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:37:06 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:k21fg5tc1hq4i1n6ovdhuvlnbaft2vf7dn@4ax .com...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:38:31 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:nkqdg5t8v49g1t8tm7oci5mq8qonqo12gb@4 ax.com...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:08:02 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:e3pdg5h3e1h6e0tob9quq9k0v6d5ckktag @4ax.com...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:31:32 -0500, H the K
wrote:

On 11/20/09 1:19 PM, wrote:

So, I take it that you decline to submit evidential material
to
confirm his role as a community organizer?


Jesus can be whatever you want..., just as "the bible" can
prove or
disprove any belief you have.

As an example, to me, if he existed at all, Jesus was a pretty
cool
dude
with some socially acceptable ideas about his fellow man who
spent
his
life preaching his vision of Judaism to Jews in the general
area in
which he supposedly lived, and who had no idea or desire to
convert
Jews
or pagans to a new religion. As with every other religion,
Christianity
is a creation of man.

If Jesus was a pretty cool dude, then he's so simply because
you've
created Him that way in your own mind?


Can't speak for Harry, but He was a "cool dude" because of his
message
of
peace, acceptance, and healing.

His message like this?

NAS Mark 9:19 And He *answered them and *said, "O unbelieving
generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up
with
you? Bring him to Me!"


As I said... out of context. You're starting to sound silly. If you
don't
like Jesus' message, why not just say so.

You don't seem to know what His message is. And I'm certain that
you
are unable to articulate what the context of Mark 9:19 is.


I'm sure you're able to tell us. In any case, this has nothing to do
with
the vitriol from the right. Or, maybe it does.

Hopefully you're not ready to venture into the ignoble domain of the
circumstantial ad hominem. Few go there and return to the land of
reason.


Not sure what you're talking about. It's a fact that what I said was
accurate about the right. Don't you remember Rudy's little convention
speech.

Circumstantial ad hominem?

As if he hasn't provided enough direct proof of his fundy idiocy?

I know, we can figure it out by having a bible quoting contest!

ROFL! What contest, dude? You haven't quoted or cited anything!
you've tied yourself into knots trying to keep up. how do you know the
guys a fundy anyway? Just because he's done the research and you
havent? Your a winner alright!

Research? He quoted some passages out of context.


Everything he quoted directly contradicted you what guys are saying so
that tells me that the guy has done his homework. you and jps haven't
shown how what he has quoted is out of context in anyway at all. That
tells me that you guys don't have a clue.


Anyone can quote passages in the bible. He provided no context. So, it seems
that you're the one who has a clue failure.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Community organization is nothing new
 

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:09:22 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:39:48 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:38:40 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:acleg5llsbu995202eamdrvqmscvqnn5nj@4ax. com...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:45:19 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:34:21 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:00:42 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:u0tbg5p53o6om8flm9uropquhj5c3j5ipe@ 4ax.com...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:59:50 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:ir9bg55003or5vckj6sgf0q2qgek6u13v ...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:59:22 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"TopBassDog" wrote in message
...


Hitler had his organizers (Brown Shirts) too!

http://www.trib.com/news/opinion/mai...501f759b0.html

And not much unlike ACORN.


Jesus was a community organizer. Why don't you compare Him to
Hitler...

Jesus was a community organizer?

NAS Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on
the
earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

NAS Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his
own
father and mother and wife and children and brothers and
sisters,
yes,
and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

NAS Mark 6:4 Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without
honor
except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his
own
household."

NAS Matthew 8:4 And Jesus *said to him, "See that you tell no
one;
but
go, show yourself to the priest and present the offering that
Moses
commanded, as a testimony to them."


All taken out of context. But, if you believe that He was more
interested
in
profit than people, I'm not sure what I can add.

Any passage or quote taken out of an extant text can be said to
be
out
of context. What may be more accurate is to say that I provided
no
extensive excerpts to provide additional context. That being
said,
though, if Jesus were a community organizer, you should be able
to
provide those passages that qualifiably make that case.
Alternately,
I can make the case that Christ was removed from this world
before
the
Christian community was "organized" by the apostles and His
disciples.
In the truest since of the word, Christ was a "revolutionary,"
not
a
community organizer.


There was no such phrase in those times, as you know. Feel free to
tell
me
how bad a community organizer is if that's your intention. I don't
need
to
"provide" passages, and if you knew better, you wouldn't ask. It's
a
completely ingenuous argument.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by all of this. There is a
panoply
of theological terms, or phrases, that certainly didn't exist in
the
time of Christ that are used to describe particular premises,
doctrines, tenets, and manifestations in Biblical scripture. This
fact doesn't detract from the validity of those scriptural
components.
Though, "no such phrase" may not have been employed in those days,
it
doesn't take away from the fact there may have been community
organizers. In fact, the Apostle Paul comes very close to fitting
the
definition. This also is not to suggest that a community organizer
is
anathema. What I find offensive is any attempt to describe Christ
as
a community organizer in order to elevate the vocation to lofty
heights. Jesus Christ simply was not a community organizer. If
anything, he served as a contrary example. If it is a legitimate
exercise to describe Christ as community organizer, then it's
legitimacy can be adduced from the time-honored canon of writings
from
which excerpts can be submitted to buttress the assertion.

You would think that once she called your argument 'ingenuous', you
would be quite satisfied to have proven your point.

Was that a Freudian slip? Only the Shadow knows.

That's why I iterated that I wasn't quite sure what she meant.
These
folks also don't seem to know the definition of a community
organizer
or a revolutionary. They're working with presuppositional
definitions
that they deem free of defect. This might help the wayward
antagonist, though;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Organizer

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/revolutionary


--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access


You're starting to sound like an apologist for the right nutcases.

As should be obvious, my apologetics are centered elsewhere.

Now for the occasionally indolent reader that may chance upon this
post, here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia article;

"Community organizing is a process by which people living in proximity
to each other are brought together in an organization to act in their
shared self-interest. Unlike other forms of more consensual "community
building," community organizers generally assume that social change
necessarily involves conflict and social struggle in order to generate
collective power for the powerless. A core goal of community
organizing is to generate durable power for an organization
representing the community, allowing it to influence key
decision-makers on a range of issues over time. In the ideal, for
example, this can get community organizing groups a place at the table
before important decisions are made.[1] Community organizers work with
and develop new local leaders, facilitating coalitions and assisting
in the development of campaigns."


Sounds like early Christianity to me.

Em, the question has to do with whether or not Christ was a community
organizer. Though, what is described in this encyclopedic definition
does not parallel what is described or recorded of the early church.
Early Christianity was set apart from the community-at-large in nearly
all corners of the Roman empire.


No the question is whether or not the extreme right tried to use community
organizing against Obama in the election. This has nothing to do with
Jesus
or the organizing he was a part of.

You have a good day today, Em.


You also. Since you haven't rebuked the right's anti-community organizing
message, I'm assuming you agree with it.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Community organization is nothing new
 

On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 09:10:31 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Em, the question has to do with whether or not Christ was a community
organizer. Though, what is described in this encyclopedic definition
does not parallel what is described or recorded of the early church.
Early Christianity was set apart from the community-at-large in nearly
all corners of the Roman empire.

I have no doubt you would have termed it pre-Christian if you'd have
anticipated the tight cranial sphincter of the insurance salesman.

As you know, there was no "Christian" community during Jesus' life. He
was part of the Jewish *Community*. It was a large community, with
everyone attending the same Temple. Jesus' followers were Jews who
were dissatisfied with the Temple and thought his ideas had merit. He
was the leader of a group that organized people to consider a
different approach to Judaism and life. He tended to their needs.

I'm sure any lesser mind can discount that he was a community
organizer in the modern sense, but he was.

It was decades before followers of Jesus formed their own synagogue to
pursue what eventually became Christianity 10 decades later. And,
from what I recall, that happened in Italy and elsewhere, not Israel.

The insurance salesman's disingenuous responses are only meant to win
an argument, an artful response to your common sense.

Community organization is nothing new
 

On 11/22/09 1:30 PM, jps wrote:
On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 09:10:31 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Em, the question has to do with whether or not Christ was a community
organizer. Though, what is described in this encyclopedic definition
does not parallel what is described or recorded of the early church.
Early Christianity was set apart from the community-at-large in nearly
all corners of the Roman empire.

I have no doubt you would have termed it pre-Christian if you'd have
anticipated the tight cranial sphincter of the insurance salesman.

As you know, there was no "Christian" community during Jesus' life. He
was part of the Jewish *Community*. It was a large community, with
everyone attending the same Temple. Jesus' followers were Jews who
were dissatisfied with the Temple and thought his ideas had merit. He
was the leader of a group that organized people to consider a
different approach to Judaism and life. He tended to their needs.

I'm sure any lesser mind can discount that he was a community
organizer in the modern sense, but he was.

It was decades before followers of Jesus formed their own synagogue to
pursue what eventually became Christianity 10 decades later. And,
from what I recall, that happened in Italy and elsewhere, not Israel.

The insurance salesman's disingenuous responses are only meant to win
an argument, an artful response to your common sense.


In point of fact, Jesus was a pious Jew, and did not "preach" to the
pagans. The pagans were the non-Jews in the area where he allegedly
lived and preached. He also did not "convert" any Jews or pagans to a
new religion.

Christianity, as with every other religion, is a creation of man.


--
If you are flajim, herring, loogy, GC boater, johnson, topbassdog, rob,
achmed the sock puppet, or one of a half dozen others, you're wasting
your time by trying to *communicate* with me through rec.boats, because,
well, you are among the permanent members of my dumbfoch dumpster, and I
don't read the vomit you post, except by accident on occasion. As
always, have a nice, simple-minded day.

Community organization is nothing new
 

On Nov 22, 12:42*pm, H the K wrote:
On 11/22/09 1:30 PM, jps wrote:



On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 09:10:31 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
*wrote:

Em, the question has to do with whether or not Christ was a community
organizer. *Though, what is described in this encyclopedic definition
does not parallel what is described or recorded of the early church..
Early Christianity was set apart from the community-at-large in nearly
all corners of the Roman empire.

I have no doubt you would have termed it pre-Christian if you'd have
anticipated the tight cranial sphincter of the insurance salesman.

As you know, there was no "Christian" community during Jesus' life. He
was part of the Jewish *Community*. *It was a large community, with
everyone attending the same Temple. *Jesus' followers were Jews who
were dissatisfied with the Temple and thought his ideas had merit. *He
was the leader of a group that organized people to consider a
different approach to Judaism and life. *He tended to their needs.

I'm sure any lesser mind can discount that he was a community
organizer in the modern sense, but he was.

It was decades before followers of Jesus formed their own synagogue to
pursue what eventually became Christianity 10 decades later. *And,
from what I recall, that happened in Italy and elsewhere, not Israel.

The insurance salesman's disingenuous responses are only meant to win
an argument, an artful response to your common sense.

In point of fact, Jesus was a pious Jew, and did not "preach" to the
pagans. The pagans were the non-Jews in the area where he allegedly
lived and preached. He also did not "convert" any Jews or pagans to a
new religion.

Christianity, as with every other religion, is a creation of man.

--
If you are flajim, herring, loogy, GC boater, johnson, topbassdog, rob,
achmed the sock puppet, or one of a half dozen others, you're wasting
your time by trying to *communicate* with me through rec.boats, because,
well, you are among the permanent members of my dumbfoch dumpster, and I
don't read the vomit you post, except by accident on occasion. As
always, have a nice, simple-minded day.

Herr Krause. You say you have doubts that Jesus ever existed, and yet
you seem to be such an self-appointed expert on his life and witness.

How so?

Community organization is nothing new
 

On Nov 22, 11:10*am, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
wrote in message

...



On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:09:22 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:39:48 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:38:40 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:acleg5llsbu995202eamdrvqmscvqnn5nj@4ax. com...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:45:19 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:34:21 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:00:42 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:u0tbg5p53o6om8flm9uropquhj5c3j5ipe@ 4ax.com...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:59:50 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:ir9bg55003or5vckj6sgf0q2qgek6u13v ...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:59:22 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"TopBassDog" wrote in message
...

Hitler had his organizers (Brown Shirts) too!

http://www.trib.com/news/opinion/mai...5b-aae6-5f17-9...

And not much unlike ACORN.

Jesus was a community organizer. Why don't you compare Him to
Hitler...

Jesus was a community organizer?

NAS Matthew 10:34 *"Do not think that I came to bring peace on
the
earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

NAS Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his
own
father and mother and wife and children and brothers and
sisters,
yes,
and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

NAS Mark 6:4 Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without
honor
except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his
own
household."

NAS Matthew 8:4 And Jesus *said to him, "See that you tell no
one;
but
go, show yourself to the priest and present the offering that
Moses
commanded, as a testimony to them."

All taken out of context. But, if you believe that He was more
interested
in
profit than people, I'm not sure what I can add.

Any passage or quote taken out of an extant text can be said to
be
out
of context. *What may be more accurate is to say that I provided
no
extensive excerpts to provide additional context. *That being
said,
though, if Jesus were a community organizer, you should be able
to
provide those passages that qualifiably make that case.
Alternately,
I can make the case that Christ was removed from this world
before
the
Christian community was "organized" by the apostles and His
disciples.
In the truest since of the word, Christ was a "revolutionary,"
not
a
community organizer.

There was no such phrase in those times, as you know. Feel free to
tell
me
how bad a community organizer is if that's your intention. I don't
need
to
"provide" passages, and if you knew better, you wouldn't ask. It's
a
completely ingenuous argument.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by all of this. *There is a
panoply
of theological terms, or phrases, that certainly didn't exist in
the
time of Christ that are used to describe particular premises,
doctrines, tenets, and manifestations in Biblical scripture. * This
fact doesn't detract from the validity of those scriptural
components.
Though, "no such phrase" may not have been employed in those days,
it
doesn't take away from the fact there may have been community
organizers. *In fact, the Apostle Paul comes very close to fitting
the
definition. *This also is not to suggest that a community organizer
is
anathema. *What I find offensive is any attempt to describe Christ
as
a community organizer in order to elevate the vocation to lofty
heights. *Jesus Christ simply was not a community organizer. *If
anything, he served as a contrary example. *If it is a legitimate
exercise to describe Christ as community organizer, then it's
legitimacy can be adduced from the time-honored canon of writings
from
which excerpts can be submitted to buttress the assertion.

You would think that once she called your argument 'ingenuous', you
would be quite satisfied to have proven your point.

Was that a Freudian slip? Only the Shadow knows.

That's why I iterated that I wasn't quite sure what she meant.
These
folks also don't seem to know the definition of a community
organizer
or a revolutionary. *They're working with presuppositional
definitions
that they deem free of defect. *This might help the wayward
antagonist, though;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Organizer

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/revolutionary

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
* * *-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

You're starting to sound like an apologist for the right nutcases.

As should be obvious, my apologetics are centered elsewhere.

Now for the occasionally indolent reader that may chance upon this
post, here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia article;

"Community organizing is a process by which people living in proximity
to each other are brought together in an organization to act in their
shared self-interest. Unlike other forms of more consensual "community
building," community organizers generally assume that social change
necessarily involves conflict and social struggle in order to generate
collective power for the powerless. A core goal of community
organizing is to generate durable power for an organization
representing the community, allowing it to influence key
decision-makers on a range of issues over time. In the ideal, for
example, this can get community organizing groups a place at the table
before important decisions are made.[1] Community organizers work with
and develop new local leaders, facilitating coalitions and assisting
in the development of campaigns."

Sounds like early Christianity to me.

Em, the question has to do with whether or not Christ was a community
organizer. *Though, what is described in this encyclopedic definition
does not parallel what is described or recorded of the early church.
Early Christianity was set apart from the community-at-large in nearly
all corners of the Roman empire.

No the question is whether or not the extreme right tried to use community
organizing against Obama in the election. This has nothing to do with
Jesus
or the organizing he was a part of.

You have a good day today, Em.

You also. Since you haven't rebuked the right's anti-community organizing
message, I'm assuming you agree with it.

--
Nom=de=Plume

D'Plume. He answered your question quite well. It's not his problem
that you cannot absorb, let alone the fact that you fall short to
comprehend his reason.