I managed to talk a friend into going sailing with me to take my 28'
sailboat from Shell Point, Fl to Carabelle, FL, a distance of 36 miles
after my previous two failed attempts where I never even left the
dock.
So, this morning, We left his truck at Carabelle and then drove mine
over to Shell Point. Sailed out with wind from the east of what
seemed to be about 15 kts. In retrospect it was prob more because
with single reefed main and 80% unfurled jib, we were making 6 kts
sailign due south on a beam reach. It is a 10 mile sail from Shell
point due south to the end of Bald Point to the west and then South
Bar sticks out another 7.5 miles with marker 26 marking its southern
end and I have to go around this marker before going west.
After we passed Bald Point, things got a tad more rough but no
biggie. Over the next 7.5 miles it slowly got worse with wind from
SE, still no biggie. Sighted marker 26 from about 2.5 miles 210
degrees from us so headed toward it which was unfortunately parallel
to the now bigger swells, water depth of maybe 35' shoaling to nearly
zero about 2 miles west of us. Swells got bigger and steeper so I'd
head directly toward the bigger ones.. At 2 miles from #26, I
realized things were really nasty although the wind was no stronger
and was a clear blue sky. There were now swells over 6', short and
steep. I have been told I always underestimate swells and I estimate
these were 6'. I figured things would get better after we rounded #26
and we had the bar between us and the east. At a distance of 1.5
miles from #26, I was seeing 7' swells coming in groups where I'd have
to head into the whole group and then during a lull I could head
toward my goal. At a distance of 1 mile from #26, I was getting
scared and thinking "Maybe I should turn back". My friend is not a
sailor so I did not ask his advice. I reasoned that safety behind the
bar was a shorter distance than turning back so kept going. The next
half mile was very chaotic with us looking up toward the bow at a very
steep angle and then on the back side of the wave we'd plunge down and
corkscrew like crazy. Both of us thought the waves were over 7.5'
high At .5 mile from #26, we looked toward it and saw it moving
crazily and large swells even south of it.
Making almost no progress toward safety and with it looking as if
things were getting worse the closer we got to #26, I made the
decision to turn back, waited for a relative calm period and turned
rapidly, made a quick very well controlled jibe and headed back N. By
this time I had furled the jib so were sailing under reefed main alone
and using the engine too for control. The boat was moving VERY FAST.
I got brief look at the gps and saw 7 kts (a 28' sailboat). When I
turned to look back toward the SE, I was shocked to see a wave
towering above me just behind the stern, very steep. It passed under
us and the boat corkscrewed like crazy. I saw a few more of these and
was then too scared to look behind and decided to only look forward.
The boat was then sliding down the steep faces of the waves and the
GPS was reading 8 kts.
Soon, things got better and more controlled and we sailed all the way
back to Shell Point wondering WTF had happed. By the time we were
halfway back to Shell Pt, the wind was very light out of the NE and
almost no swells. By the time I entered the Shell Point channel it
was almost glassy.
After driving back home I think I realize what happened. Water SE of
this bar north of #26 is deeper shoaling quickly to nearly zero depth
just west of our track. This caused the swells to build to be very
high and very steep with little space between them. If we had been a
couple miles further east and had then gone about a couple miles south
of #26, we would probably have had reasonable conditions because this
would put us in deeper water.
At least I found how my boat handles in such weird conditions.
However, everything inside is a mess, even the porta-potti slid out in
the extreme corkscrewing. Too much adventure for one day.

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:56:46 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I managed to talk a friend into going sailing with me to take my 28'
sailboat from Shell Point, Fl to Carabelle, FL, a distance of 36 miles
after my previous two failed attempts where I never even left the
dock.
So, this morning, We left his truck at Carabelle and then drove mine
over to Shell Point. Sailed out with wind from the east of what
seemed to be about 15 kts. In retrospect it was prob more because
with single reefed main and 80% unfurled jib, we were making 6 kts
sailign due south on a beam reach. It is a 10 mile sail from Shell
point due south to the end of Bald Point to the west and then South
Bar sticks out another 7.5 miles with marker 26 marking its southern
end and I have to go around this marker before going west.
After we passed Bald Point, things got a tad more rough but no
biggie. Over the next 7.5 miles it slowly got worse with wind from
SE, still no biggie. Sighted marker 26 from about 2.5 miles 210
degrees from us so headed toward it which was unfortunately parallel
to the now bigger swells, water depth of maybe 35' shoaling to nearly
zero about 2 miles west of us. Swells got bigger and steeper so I'd
head directly toward the bigger ones.. At 2 miles from #26, I
realized things were really nasty although the wind was no stronger
and was a clear blue sky. There were now swells over 6', short and
steep. I have been told I always underestimate swells and I estimate
these were 6'. I figured things would get better after we rounded #26
and we had the bar between us and the east. At a distance of 1.5
miles from #26, I was seeing 7' swells coming in groups where I'd have
to head into the whole group and then during a lull I could head
toward my goal. At a distance of 1 mile from #26, I was getting
scared and thinking "Maybe I should turn back". My friend is not a
sailor so I did not ask his advice. I reasoned that safety behind the
bar was a shorter distance than turning back so kept going. The next
half mile was very chaotic with us looking up toward the bow at a very
steep angle and then on the back side of the wave we'd plunge down and
corkscrew like crazy. Both of us thought the waves were over 7.5'
high At .5 mile from #26, we looked toward it and saw it moving
crazily and large swells even south of it.
Making almost no progress toward safety and with it looking as if
things were getting worse the closer we got to #26, I made the
decision to turn back, waited for a relative calm period and turned
rapidly, made a quick very well controlled jibe and headed back N. By
this time I had furled the jib so were sailing under reefed main alone
and using the engine too for control. The boat was moving VERY FAST.
I got brief look at the gps and saw 7 kts (a 28' sailboat). When I
turned to look back toward the SE, I was shocked to see a wave
towering above me just behind the stern, very steep. It passed under
us and the boat corkscrewed like crazy. I saw a few more of these and
was then too scared to look behind and decided to only look forward.
The boat was then sliding down the steep faces of the waves and the
GPS was reading 8 kts.
Soon, things got better and more controlled and we sailed all the way
back to Shell Point wondering WTF had happed. By the time we were
halfway back to Shell Pt, the wind was very light out of the NE and
almost no swells. By the time I entered the Shell Point channel it
was almost glassy.
After driving back home I think I realize what happened. Water SE of
this bar north of #26 is deeper shoaling quickly to nearly zero depth
just west of our track. This caused the swells to build to be very
high and very steep with little space between them. If we had been a
couple miles further east and had then gone about a couple miles south
of #26, we would probably have had reasonable conditions because this
would put us in deeper water.
At least I found how my boat handles in such weird conditions.
However, everything inside is a mess, even the porta-potti slid out in
the extreme corkscrewing. Too much adventure for one day.

Damn, That sounded scary.
Glad all is well. Take care.

On Oct 22, 7:56*pm, Frogwatch wrote:
I managed to talk a friend into going sailing with me to take my 28'
sailboat from Shell Point, Fl to Carabelle, FL, a distance of 36 miles
after my previous two failed attempts where I never even left the
dock.
So, this morning, We left his truck at Carabelle and then drove mine
over to Shell Point. *Sailed out with wind from the east of what
seemed to be about 15 kts. *In retrospect it was prob more because
with single reefed main and 80% unfurled jib, we were making 6 kts
sailign due south on a beam reach. *It is a 10 mile sail from Shell
point due south to the end of Bald Point to the west and then South
Bar sticks out another 7.5 miles with marker 26 marking its southern
end and I have to go around this marker before going west.
After we passed Bald Point, things got a tad more rough but no
biggie. *Over the next 7.5 miles it slowly got worse with wind from
SE, still no biggie. Sighted marker 26 from about 2.5 miles 210
degrees from us so headed toward it which was unfortunately parallel
to the now bigger swells, water depth of maybe 35' shoaling to nearly
zero about 2 miles west of us. *Swells got bigger and steeper so I'd
head directly toward the bigger ones.. *At 2 miles from #26, I
realized things were really nasty although the wind was no stronger
and was a clear blue sky. *There were now swells over 6', short and
steep. *I have been told I always underestimate swells and I estimate
these were 6'. *I figured things would get better after we rounded #26
and we had the bar between us and the east. *At a distance of 1.5
miles from #26, I was seeing 7' swells coming in groups where I'd have
to head into the whole group and then during a lull I could head
toward my goal. *At a distance of 1 mile from #26, I was getting
scared and thinking "Maybe I should turn back". *My friend is not a
sailor so I did not ask his advice. *I reasoned that safety behind the
bar was a shorter distance than turning back so kept going. *The next
half mile was very chaotic with us looking up toward the bow at a very
steep angle and then on the back side of the wave we'd plunge down and
corkscrew like crazy. *Both of us thought the waves were over 7.5'
high *At .5 mile from #26, we looked toward it and saw it moving
crazily and large swells even south of it.
Making almost no progress toward safety and with it looking as if
things were getting worse the closer we got to #26, I made the
decision to turn back, waited for a relative calm period and turned
rapidly, made a quick very well controlled jibe and headed back N. *By
this time I had furled the jib so were sailing under reefed main alone
and using the engine too for control. *The boat was moving VERY FAST.
I got brief look at the gps and saw 7 kts (a 28' sailboat). *When I
turned to look back toward the SE, I was shocked to see a wave
towering above me just behind the stern, very steep. *It passed under
us and the boat corkscrewed like crazy. *I saw a few more of these and
was then too scared to look behind and decided to only look forward.
The boat was then sliding down the steep faces of the waves and the
GPS was reading 8 kts.
Soon, things got better and more controlled and we sailed all the way
back to Shell Point wondering WTF had happed. *By the time we were
halfway back to Shell Pt, the wind was very light out of the NE and
almost no swells. *By the time I entered the Shell Point channel it
was almost glassy.
After driving back home I think I realize what happened. *Water SE of
this bar north of #26 is deeper shoaling quickly to nearly zero depth
just west of our track. *This caused the swells to build to be very
high and very steep with little space between them. *If we had been a
couple miles further east and had then gone about a couple miles south
of #26, we would probably have had reasonable conditions because this
would put us in deeper water.
At least I found how my boat handles in such weird conditions.
However, everything inside is a mess, even the porta-potti slid out in
the extreme corkscrewing. *Too much adventure for one day.

Just verified with buoy data that winds were prob 18 kts and wave
heights of over 7'. How am I underestimating winds?

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
I managed to talk a friend into going sailing with me to take my 28'
sailboat from Shell Point, Fl to Carabelle, FL, a distance of 36 miles
after my previous two failed attempts where I never even left the
dock.
So, this morning, We left his truck at Carabelle and then drove mine
over to Shell Point. Sailed out with wind from the east of what
seemed to be about 15 kts. In retrospect it was prob more because
with single reefed main and 80% unfurled jib, we were making 6 kts
sailign due south on a beam reach. It is a 10 mile sail from Shell
point due south to the end of Bald Point to the west and then South
Bar sticks out another 7.5 miles with marker 26 marking its southern
end and I have to go around this marker before going west.
After we passed Bald Point, things got a tad more rough but no
biggie. Over the next 7.5 miles it slowly got worse with wind from
SE, still no biggie. Sighted marker 26 from about 2.5 miles 210
degrees from us so headed toward it which was unfortunately parallel
to the now bigger swells, water depth of maybe 35' shoaling to nearly
zero about 2 miles west of us. Swells got bigger and steeper so I'd
head directly toward the bigger ones.. At 2 miles from #26, I
realized things were really nasty although the wind was no stronger
and was a clear blue sky. There were now swells over 6', short and
steep. I have been told I always underestimate swells and I estimate
these were 6'. I figured things would get better after we rounded #26
and we had the bar between us and the east. At a distance of 1.5
miles from #26, I was seeing 7' swells coming in groups where I'd have
to head into the whole group and then during a lull I could head
toward my goal. At a distance of 1 mile from #26, I was getting
scared and thinking "Maybe I should turn back". My friend is not a
sailor so I did not ask his advice. I reasoned that safety behind the
bar was a shorter distance than turning back so kept going. The next
half mile was very chaotic with us looking up toward the bow at a very
steep angle and then on the back side of the wave we'd plunge down and
corkscrew like crazy. Both of us thought the waves were over 7.5'
high At .5 mile from #26, we looked toward it and saw it moving
crazily and large swells even south of it.
Making almost no progress toward safety and with it looking as if
things were getting worse the closer we got to #26, I made the
decision to turn back, waited for a relative calm period and turned
rapidly, made a quick very well controlled jibe and headed back N. By
this time I had furled the jib so were sailing under reefed main alone
and using the engine too for control. The boat was moving VERY FAST.
I got brief look at the gps and saw 7 kts (a 28' sailboat). When I
turned to look back toward the SE, I was shocked to see a wave
towering above me just behind the stern, very steep. It passed under
us and the boat corkscrewed like crazy. I saw a few more of these and
was then too scared to look behind and decided to only look forward.
The boat was then sliding down the steep faces of the waves and the
GPS was reading 8 kts.
Soon, things got better and more controlled and we sailed all the way
back to Shell Point wondering WTF had happed. By the time we were
halfway back to Shell Pt, the wind was very light out of the NE and
almost no swells. By the time I entered the Shell Point channel it
was almost glassy.
After driving back home I think I realize what happened. Water SE of
this bar north of #26 is deeper shoaling quickly to nearly zero depth
just west of our track. This caused the swells to build to be very
high and very steep with little space between them. If we had been a
couple miles further east and had then gone about a couple miles south
of #26, we would probably have had reasonable conditions because this
would put us in deeper water.
At least I found how my boat handles in such weird conditions.
However, everything inside is a mess, even the porta-potti slid out in
the extreme corkscrewing. Too much adventure for one day.


Wow... sounds ultra-scary. Glad you made it ok with no damage but a mess!

7 foot waves in a 28 foot boat... that seems pretty big. 1/4 of the length
of the boat, and if they broke on the boat that would be lot of weight...
probably inaccurate, but the volume of a pyramind, say with a base of 10'
and a height of 7' gives ~24 cubic feet x 62 lbs/cubic foot = 1500 lbs. If
that got below....

--
Nom=de=Plume

On Oct 23, 12:02*am, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"Frogwatch" wrote in message

...



I managed to talk a friend into going sailing with me to take my 28'
sailboat from Shell Point, Fl to Carabelle, FL, a distance of 36 miles
after my previous two failed attempts where I never even left the
dock.
So, this morning, We left his truck at Carabelle and then drove mine
over to Shell Point. *Sailed out with wind from the east of what
seemed to be about 15 kts. *In retrospect it was prob more because
with single reefed main and 80% unfurled jib, we were making 6 kts
sailign due south on a beam reach. *It is a 10 mile sail from Shell
point due south to the end of Bald Point to the west and then South
Bar sticks out another 7.5 miles with marker 26 marking its southern
end and I have to go around this marker before going west.
After we passed Bald Point, things got a tad more rough but no
biggie. *Over the next 7.5 miles it slowly got worse with wind from
SE, still no biggie. Sighted marker 26 from about 2.5 miles 210
degrees from us so headed toward it which was unfortunately parallel
to the now bigger swells, water depth of maybe 35' shoaling to nearly
zero about 2 miles west of us. *Swells got bigger and steeper so I'd
head directly toward the bigger ones.. *At 2 miles from #26, I
realized things were really nasty although the wind was no stronger
and was a clear blue sky. *There were now swells over 6', short and
steep. *I have been told I always underestimate swells and I estimate
these were 6'. *I figured things would get better after we rounded #26
and we had the bar between us and the east. *At a distance of 1.5
miles from #26, I was seeing 7' swells coming in groups where I'd have
to head into the whole group and then during a lull I could head
toward my goal. *At a distance of 1 mile from #26, I was getting
scared and thinking "Maybe I should turn back". *My friend is not a
sailor so I did not ask his advice. *I reasoned that safety behind the
bar was a shorter distance than turning back so kept going. *The next
half mile was very chaotic with us looking up toward the bow at a very
steep angle and then on the back side of the wave we'd plunge down and
corkscrew like crazy. *Both of us thought the waves were over 7.5'
high *At .5 mile from #26, we looked toward it and saw it moving
crazily and large swells even south of it.
Making almost no progress toward safety and with it looking as if
things were getting worse the closer we got to #26, I made the
decision to turn back, waited for a relative calm period and turned
rapidly, made a quick very well controlled jibe and headed back N. *By
this time I had furled the jib so were sailing under reefed main alone
and using the engine too for control. *The boat was moving VERY FAST.
I got brief look at the gps and saw 7 kts (a 28' sailboat). *When I
turned to look back toward the SE, I was shocked to see a wave
towering above me just behind the stern, very steep. *It passed under
us and the boat corkscrewed like crazy. *I saw a few more of these and
was then too scared to look behind and decided to only look forward.
The boat was then sliding down the steep faces of the waves and the
GPS was reading 8 kts.
Soon, things got better and more controlled and we sailed all the way
back to Shell Point wondering WTF had happed. *By the time we were
halfway back to Shell Pt, the wind was very light out of the NE and
almost no swells. *By the time I entered the Shell Point channel it
was almost glassy.
After driving back home I think I realize what happened. *Water SE of
this bar north of #26 is deeper shoaling quickly to nearly zero depth
just west of our track. *This caused the swells to build to be very
high and very steep with little space between them. *If we had been a
couple miles further east and had then gone about a couple miles south
of #26, we would probably have had reasonable conditions because this
would put us in deeper water.
At least I found how my boat handles in such weird conditions.
However, everything inside is a mess, even the porta-potti slid out in
the extreme corkscrewing. *Too much adventure for one day.

Wow... sounds ultra-scary. Glad you made it ok with no damage but a mess!

7 foot waves in a 28 foot boat... that seems pretty big. 1/4 of the length
of the boat, and if they broke on the boat that would be lot of weight...
probably inaccurate, but the volume of a pyramind, say with a base of 10'
and a height of 7' gives ~24 cubic feet x 62 lbs/cubic foot = 1500 lbs. If
that got below....

--
Nom=de=Plume

With all the rolling, I was never happier to have my 2500 lbs of lead
ballast.

On Oct 23, 8:45*am, Frogwatch wrote:
On Oct 23, 12:02*am, "nom=de=plume" wrote:



"Frogwatch" wrote in message

....

I managed to talk a friend into going sailing with me to take my 28'
sailboat from Shell Point, Fl to Carabelle, FL, a distance of 36 miles
after my previous two failed attempts where I never even left the
dock.
So, this morning, We left his truck at Carabelle and then drove mine
over to Shell Point. *Sailed out with wind from the east of what
seemed to be about 15 kts. *In retrospect it was prob more because
with single reefed main and 80% unfurled jib, we were making 6 kts
sailign due south on a beam reach. *It is a 10 mile sail from Shell
point due south to the end of Bald Point to the west and then South
Bar sticks out another 7.5 miles with marker 26 marking its southern
end and I have to go around this marker before going west.
After we passed Bald Point, things got a tad more rough but no
biggie. *Over the next 7.5 miles it slowly got worse with wind from
SE, still no biggie. Sighted marker 26 from about 2.5 miles 210
degrees from us so headed toward it which was unfortunately parallel
to the now bigger swells, water depth of maybe 35' shoaling to nearly
zero about 2 miles west of us. *Swells got bigger and steeper so I'd
head directly toward the bigger ones.. *At 2 miles from #26, I
realized things were really nasty although the wind was no stronger
and was a clear blue sky. *There were now swells over 6', short and
steep. *I have been told I always underestimate swells and I estimate
these were 6'. *I figured things would get better after we rounded #26
and we had the bar between us and the east. *At a distance of 1.5
miles from #26, I was seeing 7' swells coming in groups where I'd have
to head into the whole group and then during a lull I could head
toward my goal. *At a distance of 1 mile from #26, I was getting
scared and thinking "Maybe I should turn back". *My friend is not a
sailor so I did not ask his advice. *I reasoned that safety behind the
bar was a shorter distance than turning back so kept going. *The next
half mile was very chaotic with us looking up toward the bow at a very
steep angle and then on the back side of the wave we'd plunge down and
corkscrew like crazy. *Both of us thought the waves were over 7.5'
high *At .5 mile from #26, we looked toward it and saw it moving
crazily and large swells even south of it.
Making almost no progress toward safety and with it looking as if
things were getting worse the closer we got to #26, I made the
decision to turn back, waited for a relative calm period and turned
rapidly, made a quick very well controlled jibe and headed back N. *By
this time I had furled the jib so were sailing under reefed main alone
and using the engine too for control. *The boat was moving VERY FAST.
I got brief look at the gps and saw 7 kts (a 28' sailboat). *When I
turned to look back toward the SE, I was shocked to see a wave
towering above me just behind the stern, very steep. *It passed under
us and the boat corkscrewed like crazy. *I saw a few more of these and
was then too scared to look behind and decided to only look forward.
The boat was then sliding down the steep faces of the waves and the
GPS was reading 8 kts.
Soon, things got better and more controlled and we sailed all the way
back to Shell Point wondering WTF had happed. *By the time we were
halfway back to Shell Pt, the wind was very light out of the NE and
almost no swells. *By the time I entered the Shell Point channel it
was almost glassy.
After driving back home I think I realize what happened. *Water SE of
this bar north of #26 is deeper shoaling quickly to nearly zero depth
just west of our track. *This caused the swells to build to be very
high and very steep with little space between them. *If we had been a
couple miles further east and had then gone about a couple miles south
of #26, we would probably have had reasonable conditions because this
would put us in deeper water.
At least I found how my boat handles in such weird conditions.
However, everything inside is a mess, even the porta-potti slid out in
the extreme corkscrewing. *Too much adventure for one day.

Wow... sounds ultra-scary. Glad you made it ok with no damage but a mess!

7 foot waves in a 28 foot boat... that seems pretty big. 1/4 of the length
of the boat, and if they broke on the boat that would be lot of weight....
probably inaccurate, but the volume of a pyramind, say with a base of 10'
and a height of 7' gives ~24 cubic feet x 62 lbs/cubic foot = 1500 lbs. If
that got below....

--
Nom=de=Plume

With all the rolling, I was never happier to have my 2500 lbs of lead
ballast.

In most other cases where I have "wimped out" of things, I spent a lot
of time second guessing myself. In this case, I feel totally
justified. My friend says he was concerned but thought I knew what I
was doing, foolish man.

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
On Oct 23, 8:45 am, Frogwatch wrote:
On Oct 23, 12:02 am, "nom=de=plume" wrote:



"Frogwatch" wrote in message

...

I managed to talk a friend into going sailing with me to take my 28'
sailboat from Shell Point, Fl to Carabelle, FL, a distance of 36 miles
after my previous two failed attempts where I never even left the
dock.
So, this morning, We left his truck at Carabelle and then drove mine
over to Shell Point. Sailed out with wind from the east of what
seemed to be about 15 kts. In retrospect it was prob more because
with single reefed main and 80% unfurled jib, we were making 6 kts
sailign due south on a beam reach. It is a 10 mile sail from Shell
point due south to the end of Bald Point to the west and then South
Bar sticks out another 7.5 miles with marker 26 marking its southern
end and I have to go around this marker before going west.
After we passed Bald Point, things got a tad more rough but no
biggie. Over the next 7.5 miles it slowly got worse with wind from
SE, still no biggie. Sighted marker 26 from about 2.5 miles 210
degrees from us so headed toward it which was unfortunately parallel
to the now bigger swells, water depth of maybe 35' shoaling to nearly
zero about 2 miles west of us. Swells got bigger and steeper so I'd
head directly toward the bigger ones.. At 2 miles from #26, I
realized things were really nasty although the wind was no stronger
and was a clear blue sky. There were now swells over 6', short and
steep. I have been told I always underestimate swells and I estimate
these were 6'. I figured things would get better after we rounded #26
and we had the bar between us and the east. At a distance of 1.5
miles from #26, I was seeing 7' swells coming in groups where I'd have
to head into the whole group and then during a lull I could head
toward my goal. At a distance of 1 mile from #26, I was getting
scared and thinking "Maybe I should turn back". My friend is not a
sailor so I did not ask his advice. I reasoned that safety behind the
bar was a shorter distance than turning back so kept going. The next
half mile was very chaotic with us looking up toward the bow at a very
steep angle and then on the back side of the wave we'd plunge down and
corkscrew like crazy. Both of us thought the waves were over 7.5'
high At .5 mile from #26, we looked toward it and saw it moving
crazily and large swells even south of it.
Making almost no progress toward safety and with it looking as if
things were getting worse the closer we got to #26, I made the
decision to turn back, waited for a relative calm period and turned
rapidly, made a quick very well controlled jibe and headed back N. By
this time I had furled the jib so were sailing under reefed main alone
and using the engine too for control. The boat was moving VERY FAST.
I got brief look at the gps and saw 7 kts (a 28' sailboat). When I
turned to look back toward the SE, I was shocked to see a wave
towering above me just behind the stern, very steep. It passed under
us and the boat corkscrewed like crazy. I saw a few more of these and
was then too scared to look behind and decided to only look forward.
The boat was then sliding down the steep faces of the waves and the
GPS was reading 8 kts.
Soon, things got better and more controlled and we sailed all the way
back to Shell Point wondering WTF had happed. By the time we were
halfway back to Shell Pt, the wind was very light out of the NE and
almost no swells. By the time I entered the Shell Point channel it
was almost glassy.
After driving back home I think I realize what happened. Water SE of
this bar north of #26 is deeper shoaling quickly to nearly zero depth
just west of our track. This caused the swells to build to be very
high and very steep with little space between them. If we had been a
couple miles further east and had then gone about a couple miles south
of #26, we would probably have had reasonable conditions because this
would put us in deeper water.
At least I found how my boat handles in such weird conditions.
However, everything inside is a mess, even the porta-potti slid out in
the extreme corkscrewing. Too much adventure for one day.

Wow... sounds ultra-scary. Glad you made it ok with no damage but a
mess!

7 foot waves in a 28 foot boat... that seems pretty big. 1/4 of the
length
of the boat, and if they broke on the boat that would be lot of
weight...
probably inaccurate, but the volume of a pyramind, say with a base of
10'
and a height of 7' gives ~24 cubic feet x 62 lbs/cubic foot = 1500 lbs.
If
that got below....

--
Nom=de=Plume

With all the rolling, I was never happier to have my 2500 lbs of lead
ballast.

In most other cases where I have "wimped out" of things, I spent a lot
of time second guessing myself. In this case, I feel totally
justified. My friend says he was concerned but thought I knew what I
was doing, foolish man.


I think that if I was in that situation, I would be the most conservative
person possible. It'd make Olympia Snowe look like a wild-eyed radical circa
1968.

--
Nom=de=Plume

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:56:46 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:


After driving back home I think I realize what happened. Water SE of
this bar north of #26 is deeper shoaling quickly to nearly zero depth
just west of our track. This caused the swells to build to be very
high and very steep with little space between them. If we had been a
couple miles further east and had then gone about a couple miles south
of #26, we would probably have had reasonable conditions because this
would put us in deeper water.
At least I found how my boat handles in such weird conditions.
However, everything inside is a mess, even the porta-potti slid out in
the extreme corkscrewing. Too much adventure for one day.

You did well to come out unscathed.
Aren't local sailors aware of these conditions?
Seems a little homework with the local sailing clubs would have made
you aware of what you were getting into.
Just guessing on that though.

--Vic

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
On Oct 23, 8:45 am, Frogwatch wrote:
On Oct 23, 12:02 am, "nom=de=plume" wrote:



"Frogwatch" wrote in message

...

I managed to talk a friend into going sailing with me to take my 28'
sailboat from Shell Point, Fl to Carabelle, FL, a distance of 36
miles
after my previous two failed attempts where I never even left the
dock.
So, this morning, We left his truck at Carabelle and then drove mine
over to Shell Point. Sailed out with wind from the east of what
seemed to be about 15 kts. In retrospect it was prob more because
with single reefed main and 80% unfurled jib, we were making 6 kts
sailign due south on a beam reach. It is a 10 mile sail from Shell
point due south to the end of Bald Point to the west and then South
Bar sticks out another 7.5 miles with marker 26 marking its southern
end and I have to go around this marker before going west.
After we passed Bald Point, things got a tad more rough but no
biggie. Over the next 7.5 miles it slowly got worse with wind from
SE, still no biggie. Sighted marker 26 from about 2.5 miles 210
degrees from us so headed toward it which was unfortunately parallel
to the now bigger swells, water depth of maybe 35' shoaling to nearly
zero about 2 miles west of us. Swells got bigger and steeper so I'd
head directly toward the bigger ones.. At 2 miles from #26, I
realized things were really nasty although the wind was no stronger
and was a clear blue sky. There were now swells over 6', short and
steep. I have been told I always underestimate swells and I estimate
these were 6'. I figured things would get better after we rounded #26
and we had the bar between us and the east. At a distance of 1.5
miles from #26, I was seeing 7' swells coming in groups where I'd
have
to head into the whole group and then during a lull I could head
toward my goal. At a distance of 1 mile from #26, I was getting
scared and thinking "Maybe I should turn back". My friend is not a
sailor so I did not ask his advice. I reasoned that safety behind the
bar was a shorter distance than turning back so kept going. The next
half mile was very chaotic with us looking up toward the bow at a
very
steep angle and then on the back side of the wave we'd plunge down
and
corkscrew like crazy. Both of us thought the waves were over 7.5'
high At .5 mile from #26, we looked toward it and saw it moving
crazily and large swells even south of it.
Making almost no progress toward safety and with it looking as if
things were getting worse the closer we got to #26, I made the
decision to turn back, waited for a relative calm period and turned
rapidly, made a quick very well controlled jibe and headed back N. By
this time I had furled the jib so were sailing under reefed main
alone
and using the engine too for control. The boat was moving VERY FAST.
I got brief look at the gps and saw 7 kts (a 28' sailboat). When I
turned to look back toward the SE, I was shocked to see a wave
towering above me just behind the stern, very steep. It passed under
us and the boat corkscrewed like crazy. I saw a few more of these and
was then too scared to look behind and decided to only look forward.
The boat was then sliding down the steep faces of the waves and the
GPS was reading 8 kts.
Soon, things got better and more controlled and we sailed all the way
back to Shell Point wondering WTF had happed. By the time we were
halfway back to Shell Pt, the wind was very light out of the NE and
almost no swells. By the time I entered the Shell Point channel it
was almost glassy.
After driving back home I think I realize what happened. Water SE of
this bar north of #26 is deeper shoaling quickly to nearly zero depth
just west of our track. This caused the swells to build to be very
high and very steep with little space between them. If we had been a
couple miles further east and had then gone about a couple miles
south
of #26, we would probably have had reasonable conditions because this
would put us in deeper water.
At least I found how my boat handles in such weird conditions.
However, everything inside is a mess, even the porta-potti slid out
in
the extreme corkscrewing. Too much adventure for one day.

Wow... sounds ultra-scary. Glad you made it ok with no damage but a
mess!

7 foot waves in a 28 foot boat... that seems pretty big. 1/4 of the
length
of the boat, and if they broke on the boat that would be lot of
weight...
probably inaccurate, but the volume of a pyramind, say with a base of
10'
and a height of 7' gives ~24 cubic feet x 62 lbs/cubic foot = 1500 lbs.
If
that got below....

--
Nom=de=Plume

With all the rolling, I was never happier to have my 2500 lbs of lead
ballast.

In most other cases where I have "wimped out" of things, I spent a lot
of time second guessing myself. In this case, I feel totally
justified. My friend says he was concerned but thought I knew what I
was doing, foolish man.


I think that if I was in that situation, I would be the most conservative
person possible. It'd make Olympia Snowe look like a wild-eyed radical
circa 1968.

--
Nom=de=Plume


8' swells are about the limit I boat in. But 8' in the Pacific off San
Francisco is a lot nicer than 8' off Florida. We get nice rolling swells
as there may be 100' to 5000' of water depth. Shallow water will give a
steep, breaking swell.

On Oct 23, 4:04*pm, "Bill McKee" wrote:
"nom=de=plume" wrote in message

...



"Frogwatch" wrote in message
....
On Oct 23, 8:45 am, Frogwatch wrote:
On Oct 23, 12:02 am, "nom=de=plume" wrote:

"Frogwatch" wrote in message

...

I managed to talk a friend into going sailing with me to take my 28'
sailboat from Shell Point, Fl to Carabelle, FL, a distance of 36
miles
after my previous two failed attempts where I never even left the
dock.
So, this morning, We left his truck at Carabelle and then drove mine
over to Shell Point. Sailed out with wind from the east of what
seemed to be about 15 kts. In retrospect it was prob more because
with single reefed main and 80% unfurled jib, we were making 6 kts
sailign due south on a beam reach. It is a 10 mile sail from Shell
point due south to the end of Bald Point to the west and then South
Bar sticks out another 7.5 miles with marker 26 marking its southern
end and I have to go around this marker before going west.
After we passed Bald Point, things got a tad more rough but no
biggie. Over the next 7.5 miles it slowly got worse with wind from
SE, still no biggie. Sighted marker 26 from about 2.5 miles 210
degrees from us so headed toward it which was unfortunately parallel
to the now bigger swells, water depth of maybe 35' shoaling to nearly
zero about 2 miles west of us. Swells got bigger and steeper so I'd
head directly toward the bigger ones.. At 2 miles from #26, I
realized things were really nasty although the wind was no stronger
and was a clear blue sky. There were now swells over 6', short and
steep. I have been told I always underestimate swells and I estimate
these were 6'. I figured things would get better after we rounded #26
and we had the bar between us and the east. At a distance of 1.5
miles from #26, I was seeing 7' swells coming in groups where I'd
have
to head into the whole group and then during a lull I could head
toward my goal. At a distance of 1 mile from #26, I was getting
scared and thinking "Maybe I should turn back". My friend is not a
sailor so I did not ask his advice. I reasoned that safety behind the
bar was a shorter distance than turning back so kept going. The next
half mile was very chaotic with us looking up toward the bow at a
very
steep angle and then on the back side of the wave we'd plunge down
and
corkscrew like crazy. Both of us thought the waves were over 7.5'
high At .5 mile from #26, we looked toward it and saw it moving
crazily and large swells even south of it.
Making almost no progress toward safety and with it looking as if
things were getting worse the closer we got to #26, I made the
decision to turn back, waited for a relative calm period and turned
rapidly, made a quick very well controlled jibe and headed back N. By
this time I had furled the jib so were sailing under reefed main
alone
and using the engine too for control. The boat was moving VERY FAST.
I got brief look at the gps and saw 7 kts (a 28' sailboat). When I
turned to look back toward the SE, I was shocked to see a wave
towering above me just behind the stern, very steep. It passed under
us and the boat corkscrewed like crazy. I saw a few more of these and
was then too scared to look behind and decided to only look forward.
The boat was then sliding down the steep faces of the waves and the
GPS was reading 8 kts.
Soon, things got better and more controlled and we sailed all the way
back to Shell Point wondering WTF had happed. By the time we were
halfway back to Shell Pt, the wind was very light out of the NE and
almost no swells. By the time I entered the Shell Point channel it
was almost glassy.
After driving back home I think I realize what happened. Water SE of
this bar north of #26 is deeper shoaling quickly to nearly zero depth
just west of our track. This caused the swells to build to be very
high and very steep with little space between them. If we had been a
couple miles further east and had then gone about a couple miles
south
of #26, we would probably have had reasonable conditions because this
would put us in deeper water.
At least I found how my boat handles in such weird conditions.
However, everything inside is a mess, even the porta-potti slid out
in
the extreme corkscrewing. Too much adventure for one day.

Wow... sounds ultra-scary. Glad you made it ok with no damage but a
mess!

7 foot waves in a 28 foot boat... that seems pretty big. 1/4 of the
length
of the boat, and if they broke on the boat that would be lot of
weight...
probably inaccurate, but the volume of a pyramind, say with a base of
10'
and a height of 7' gives ~24 cubic feet x 62 lbs/cubic foot = 1500 lbs.
If
that got below....

--
Nom=de=Plume

With all the rolling, I was never happier to have my 2500 lbs of lead
ballast.

In most other cases where I have "wimped out" of things, I spent a lot
of time second guessing myself. *In this case, I feel totally
justified. *My friend says he was concerned but thought I knew what I
was doing, foolish man.

I think that if I was in that situation, I would be the most conservative
person possible. It'd make Olympia Snowe look like a wild-eyed radical
circa 1968.

--
Nom=de=Plume

8' swells are about the limit I boat in. *But 8' in the Pacific off San
Francisco is a lot nicer than 8' off Florida. * We get nice rolling swells
as there may be 100' to 5000' of water depth. *Shallow water will give a
steep, breaking swell.

I have sailed out around that marker about 10 times before and never
seen such there. The period between swells was such that I could
barely recover before the next one came. In deeper water, the data
buoys said about 4.5 sec between swells.
I'll probably try again Sunday.