On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:49:43 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 04:37:46 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 06:28:30 -0400, H the K
wrote:

On 10/26/09 6:22 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 00:55:30 -0400, wrote:


Besides, that article has some other gems, such as the there's no
evidence the private insurers do any better with fraud than does
Medicare.


Did you see 60 Minutes tonight? They are talking about billions in
medicare fraud.

No, missed that. But see above. Maybe you missed it.
Somehow the Medicare fraud doesn't bother me as much after seeing
that.
After all, we're paying almost 10 times more to Aetna than to
Medicare.
So for every buck of mine going to a crook cheating Medicare, there's
nearly a sawbuck of mine going to the crook cheating Aetna.
Great system. Pretty equitable for the crooks percentage wise.
Lucky I can afford it. Good luck to those who can't.
They'll need it.

--Vic


Note that the medicare fraud on display in 60 minutes last night was not
being committed by the government, but by private-sector, for-profit
individuals.

Yep. Health care providers all.
Somebody's got to pay for that Mercedes.

--Vic

You missed the point. It's a government run system riddled with fraud.
Now the government is trying to institute a *bigger* government run
system, which will still be administered by individuals. You don't
think the fraud will increase likewise?

Nope, you're missing it. Maybe you missed where private insurance
companies are doing the Medicare billing, and that private health
insurance providers are committing the fraud.
BTW, I never saw anybody in the Navy caught or convicted of fraud, and
I bet you didn't tolerate financially scamming the public in your Army
career. Outside of letting a skater slide now and then.
Interestingly enough, I witnessed a couple accountants "disappearing"
while in private industry. Caught defrauding. Not prosecuted though,
because it "wouldn't look good." Gets hushed up.
And I wasn't even in a position to know the depth of those kind of
problems. Just friendly with a couple of those who did know.
Of course we know fraud happens in government.
We hardly know squat about what goes on in "private enterprise."

--Vic

On 10/26/09 4:53 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:49:43 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 04:37:46 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 06:28:30 -0400, H the K
wrote:

On 10/26/09 6:22 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 00:55:30 -0400, wrote:


Besides, that article has some other gems, such as the there's no
evidence the private insurers do any better with fraud than does
Medicare.


Did you see 60 Minutes tonight? They are talking about billions in
medicare fraud.

No, missed that. But see above. Maybe you missed it.
Somehow the Medicare fraud doesn't bother me as much after seeing
that.
After all, we're paying almost 10 times more to Aetna than to
Medicare.
So for every buck of mine going to a crook cheating Medicare, there's
nearly a sawbuck of mine going to the crook cheating Aetna.
Great system. Pretty equitable for the crooks percentage wise.
Lucky I can afford it. Good luck to those who can't.
They'll need it.

--Vic


Note that the medicare fraud on display in 60 minutes last night was not
being committed by the government, but by private-sector, for-profit
individuals.

Yep. Health care providers all.
Somebody's got to pay for that Mercedes.

--Vic

You missed the point. It's a government run system riddled with fraud.
Now the government is trying to institute a *bigger* government run
system, which will still be administered by individuals. You don't
think the fraud will increase likewise?

Nope, you're missing it. Maybe you missed where private insurance
companies are doing the Medicare billing, and that private health
insurance providers are committing the fraud.
BTW, I never saw anybody in the Navy caught or convicted of fraud, and
I bet you didn't tolerate financially scamming the public in your Army
career. Outside of letting a skater slide now and then.
Interestingly enough, I witnessed a couple accountants "disappearing"
while in private industry. Caught defrauding. Not prosecuted though,
because it "wouldn't look good." Gets hushed up.
And I wasn't even in a position to know the depth of those kind of
problems. Just friendly with a couple of those who did know.
Of course we know fraud happens in government.
We hardly know squat about what goes on in "private enterprise."

--Vic

Herring "thinks" that when private, for-profit contractors screw the
government, it is the government's fault. Probably a leftover from his
army days, when he looked the other way.

H the K wrote:
On 10/26/09 4:53 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:49:43 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 04:37:46 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 06:28:30 -0400, H the K
wrote:

On 10/26/09 6:22 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 00:55:30 -0400, wrote:


Besides, that article has some other gems, such as the there's no
evidence the private insurers do any better with fraud than does
Medicare.


Did you see 60 Minutes tonight? They are talking about billions in
medicare fraud.

No, missed that. But see above. Maybe you missed it.
Somehow the Medicare fraud doesn't bother me as much after seeing
that.
After all, we're paying almost 10 times more to Aetna than to
Medicare.
So for every buck of mine going to a crook cheating Medicare, there's
nearly a sawbuck of mine going to the crook cheating Aetna.
Great system. Pretty equitable for the crooks percentage wise.
Lucky I can afford it. Good luck to those who can't.
They'll need it.

--Vic


Note that the medicare fraud on display in 60 minutes last night
was not
being committed by the government, but by private-sector, for-profit
individuals.

Yep. Health care providers all.
Somebody's got to pay for that Mercedes.

--Vic

You missed the point. It's a government run system riddled with fraud.
Now the government is trying to institute a *bigger* government run
system, which will still be administered by individuals. You don't
think the fraud will increase likewise?

Nope, you're missing it. Maybe you missed where private insurance
companies are doing the Medicare billing, and that private health
insurance providers are committing the fraud.
BTW, I never saw anybody in the Navy caught or convicted of fraud, and
I bet you didn't tolerate financially scamming the public in your Army
career. Outside of letting a skater slide now and then.
Interestingly enough, I witnessed a couple accountants "disappearing"
while in private industry. Caught defrauding. Not prosecuted though,
because it "wouldn't look good." Gets hushed up.
And I wasn't even in a position to know the depth of those kind of
problems. Just friendly with a couple of those who did know.
Of course we know fraud happens in government.
We hardly know squat about what goes on in "private enterprise."

--Vic

Herring "thinks" that when private, for-profit contractors screw the
government, it is the government's fault. Probably a leftover from his
army days, when he looked the other way.

The Govt. had the money. Then they didn't. Are you saying they got fleeced?

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 17:10:11 -0400, Jim wrote:

H the K wrote:
On 10/26/09 4:53 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:49:43 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 04:37:46 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 06:28:30 -0400, H the K
wrote:

On 10/26/09 6:22 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 00:55:30 -0400, wrote:


Besides, that article has some other gems, such as the there's no
evidence the private insurers do any better with fraud than does
Medicare.


Did you see 60 Minutes tonight? They are talking about billions in
medicare fraud.

No, missed that. But see above. Maybe you missed it.
Somehow the Medicare fraud doesn't bother me as much after seeing
that.
After all, we're paying almost 10 times more to Aetna than to
Medicare.
So for every buck of mine going to a crook cheating Medicare, there's
nearly a sawbuck of mine going to the crook cheating Aetna.
Great system. Pretty equitable for the crooks percentage wise.
Lucky I can afford it. Good luck to those who can't.
They'll need it.

--Vic


Note that the medicare fraud on display in 60 minutes last night
was not
being committed by the government, but by private-sector, for-profit
individuals.

Yep. Health care providers all.
Somebody's got to pay for that Mercedes.

--Vic

You missed the point. It's a government run system riddled with fraud.
Now the government is trying to institute a *bigger* government run
system, which will still be administered by individuals. You don't
think the fraud will increase likewise?

Nope, you're missing it. Maybe you missed where private insurance
companies are doing the Medicare billing, and that private health
insurance providers are committing the fraud.
BTW, I never saw anybody in the Navy caught or convicted of fraud, and
I bet you didn't tolerate financially scamming the public in your Army
career. Outside of letting a skater slide now and then.
Interestingly enough, I witnessed a couple accountants "disappearing"
while in private industry. Caught defrauding. Not prosecuted though,
because it "wouldn't look good." Gets hushed up.
And I wasn't even in a position to know the depth of those kind of
problems. Just friendly with a couple of those who did know.
Of course we know fraud happens in government.
We hardly know squat about what goes on in "private enterprise."

--Vic

Herring "thinks" that when private, for-profit contractors screw the
government, it is the government's fault. Probably a leftover from his
army days, when he looked the other way.

The Govt. had the money. Then they didn't. Are you saying they got fleeced?

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:53:09 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:49:43 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 04:37:46 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 06:28:30 -0400, H the K
wrote:

On 10/26/09 6:22 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 00:55:30 -0400, wrote:


Besides, that article has some other gems, such as the there's no
evidence the private insurers do any better with fraud than does
Medicare.


Did you see 60 Minutes tonight? They are talking about billions in
medicare fraud.

No, missed that. But see above. Maybe you missed it.
Somehow the Medicare fraud doesn't bother me as much after seeing
that.
After all, we're paying almost 10 times more to Aetna than to
Medicare.
So for every buck of mine going to a crook cheating Medicare, there's
nearly a sawbuck of mine going to the crook cheating Aetna.
Great system. Pretty equitable for the crooks percentage wise.
Lucky I can afford it. Good luck to those who can't.
They'll need it.

--Vic


Note that the medicare fraud on display in 60 minutes last night was not
being committed by the government, but by private-sector, for-profit
individuals.

Yep. Health care providers all.
Somebody's got to pay for that Mercedes.

--Vic

You missed the point. It's a government run system riddled with fraud.
Now the government is trying to institute a *bigger* government run
system, which will still be administered by individuals. You don't
think the fraud will increase likewise?

Nope, you're missing it. Maybe you missed where private insurance
companies are doing the Medicare billing, and that private health
insurance providers are committing the fraud.
BTW, I never saw anybody in the Navy caught or convicted of fraud, and
I bet you didn't tolerate financially scamming the public in your Army
career. Outside of letting a skater slide now and then.
Interestingly enough, I witnessed a couple accountants "disappearing"
while in private industry. Caught defrauding. Not prosecuted though,
because it "wouldn't look good." Gets hushed up.
And I wasn't even in a position to know the depth of those kind of
problems. Just friendly with a couple of those who did know.
Of course we know fraud happens in government.
We hardly know squat about what goes on in "private enterprise."

--Vic

My brother, a retired cop, now works as an investigator of insurance
fraud for a health insurer. So I know that the civilian firms actually
do 'something' to prevent fraud. I don't think we have any idea of the
scope of the fraud going on with Medicare. As a Medicare recipient,
I'll say that it seems like it would be very easy to do.

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:53:09 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:49:43 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 04:37:46 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 06:28:30 -0400, H the K
wrote:

On 10/26/09 6:22 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 00:55:30 -0400, wrote:


Besides, that article has some other gems, such as the there's no
evidence the private insurers do any better with fraud than does
Medicare.


Did you see 60 Minutes tonight? They are talking about billions in
medicare fraud.

No, missed that. But see above. Maybe you missed it.
Somehow the Medicare fraud doesn't bother me as much after seeing
that.
After all, we're paying almost 10 times more to Aetna than to
Medicare.
So for every buck of mine going to a crook cheating Medicare, there's
nearly a sawbuck of mine going to the crook cheating Aetna.
Great system. Pretty equitable for the crooks percentage wise.
Lucky I can afford it. Good luck to those who can't.
They'll need it.

--Vic


Note that the medicare fraud on display in 60 minutes last night was
not
being committed by the government, but by private-sector, for-profit
individuals.

Yep. Health care providers all.
Somebody's got to pay for that Mercedes.

--Vic

You missed the point. It's a government run system riddled with fraud.
Now the government is trying to institute a *bigger* government run
system, which will still be administered by individuals. You don't
think the fraud will increase likewise?

Nope, you're missing it. Maybe you missed where private insurance
companies are doing the Medicare billing, and that private health
insurance providers are committing the fraud.
BTW, I never saw anybody in the Navy caught or convicted of fraud, and
I bet you didn't tolerate financially scamming the public in your Army
career. Outside of letting a skater slide now and then.
Interestingly enough, I witnessed a couple accountants "disappearing"
while in private industry. Caught defrauding. Not prosecuted though,
because it "wouldn't look good." Gets hushed up.
And I wasn't even in a position to know the depth of those kind of
problems. Just friendly with a couple of those who did know.
Of course we know fraud happens in government.
We hardly know squat about what goes on in "private enterprise."

--Vic

My brother, a retired cop, now works as an investigator of insurance
fraud for a health insurer. So I know that the civilian firms actually
do 'something' to prevent fraud. I don't think we have any idea of the
scope of the fraud going on with Medicare. As a Medicare recipient,
I'll say that it seems like it would be very easy to do.


It's about $60B a year according to CBS. It wouldn't be easy to fix it, but
it would require investigators, which means more money for them. The Obama
admin. has added $200M to the effort. Not enough in my opinion.

--
Nom=de=Plume

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:46:07 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

It's about $60B a year according to CBS. It wouldn't be easy to fix it,
but
it would require investigators, which means more money for them. The Obama
admin. has added $200M to the effort. Not enough in my opinion.

--
Nom=de=Plume

I watched that segment a couple times and I think they were saying the
$60B was just in South Florida.
They did kind of gloss over the numbers.


It was total per year, but that's a big number!

--
Nom=de=Plume

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:17:34 -0400, John H.
wrote:



My brother, a retired cop, now works as an investigator of insurance
fraud for a health insurer. So I know that the civilian firms actually
do 'something' to prevent fraud. I don't think we have any idea of the
scope of the fraud going on with Medicare. As a Medicare recipient,
I'll say that it seems like it would be very easy to do.

Having worked for a major casualty insurer for years, I've been
beating the anti-fraud drum for years.
Even there I didn't feel enough was being done with anti-fraud
efforts.
Easier to deny the claims and raise the premiums of dumb honest
customers than to go after the smart crooks.
Hard to get a handle on what's really going on, except not enough
resources are devoted to fighting fraud.
Found this
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n5109783.shtml
And note this from it
"The fact that the suspects had to move to other states and other
avenues of Medicare - in this case, Medicare Advantage - signals an
understanding on the streets that officials are on to their old
tricks. And that the task forces are working, Sloman said.
Medicare Advantage allows the elderly and disabled to get benefits
through private health insurers. The plans receive a government
subsidy and generally offer more benefits than traditional Medicare."

Didn't see the 60 minutes piece so I don't know if they mentioned the
private insurance company role in it all.
But we need those kinds of exposes to get the folks ****ed off enough
to make the pols react.
But you watch all the squealing if the gov adds staff to fight fraud.
"Big government! Big Government!"

--Vic

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 17:06:57 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:17:34 -0400, John H.
wrote:



My brother, a retired cop, now works as an investigator of insurance
fraud for a health insurer. So I know that the civilian firms actually
do 'something' to prevent fraud. I don't think we have any idea of the
scope of the fraud going on with Medicare. As a Medicare recipient,
I'll say that it seems like it would be very easy to do.

Having worked for a major casualty insurer for years, I've been
beating the anti-fraud drum for years.
Even there I didn't feel enough was being done with anti-fraud
efforts.
Easier to deny the claims and raise the premiums of dumb honest
customers than to go after the smart crooks.
Hard to get a handle on what's really going on, except not enough
resources are devoted to fighting fraud.
Found this
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n5109783.shtml
And note this from it
"The fact that the suspects had to move to other states and other
avenues of Medicare - in this case, Medicare Advantage - signals an
understanding on the streets that officials are on to their old
tricks. And that the task forces are working, Sloman said.
Medicare Advantage allows the elderly and disabled to get benefits
through private health insurers. The plans receive a government
subsidy and generally offer more benefits than traditional Medicare."

Didn't see the 60 minutes piece so I don't know if they mentioned the
private insurance company role in it all.
But we need those kinds of exposes to get the folks ****ed off enough
to make the pols react.
But you watch all the squealing if the gov adds staff to fight fraud.
"Big government! Big Government!"

--Vic

You've got much more of a background in it then I do, so I'll bow to
your insights in this matter.

But not golf.

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 19:47:35 -0400, John H.
wrote:


You've got much more of a background in it then I do, so I'll bow to
your insights in this matter.

Big mistake. I'm mostly talking out of my ass.

But not golf.

You got that right!

--Vic