On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 10:27:23 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 23:37:00 -0700, jps wrote:

On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 01:57:12 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 22:21:25 -0700, jps wrote:

Perhaps, that's certainly a big number. Something like 70% of docs want a
public option or single payer. They're just as sick of the paperwork as
everyone else.

Don't talk to them about Medicare. The docs I know as friends think
It's just as bad as dealing with the insurance companies.


I have been away from that part long enough not to know what is going
on now but my ex (that I am still on speaking terms with) was a
hospital administrator for most of her life and she says the same
thing. Medicare is very hard to deal with and very much "slow pay" for
the provider.
I wonder how that gets padded on to your bill. It is certainly a cost
to the provider and all costs are passed on one way or another.

She is now working at the DC Medical society. I will talk to her and
get their spin.
She is also the former commander of one of the DC area USCGA
flotillas.

I'm sure that's true.

I know there's a pile of money available through the stimulus program
to develop new methods of care delivery and processing of data.

There's got to be some efficiencies to be realized by applying best
practices from other industries.

We have a HMO in Seattle that's been around forever. Used to be
feared as not willing to spend on patients. It's turned out to be one
of the most efficient, effective, patient-lauded organizations in the
country. It's held out as a model and may well be the prototype for
better run organizations delivering more effective, reasonably priced
care.

That's all ass-backwards. There are well-proven "prototypes" all over
the civilized world that deliver better health care at much less cost
- for all.

They're not in the US from what I can tell.

And they are all virtual single payer, non-profit systems.
The problem is viewing health care as a business.

Every organization that uses money to exist can benefit from
efficiencies found in business. Non-profits do it all the time.

It's a calling; it's an occupation. You can make a good living.
But it's not a business.

Doctors and nurses and administrators all have to pay their bills. The
interest in making money has thwarted the "calling." They know they
can make oodles more money by specialiizing. There are so few GPs
coming out of school it's a disaster. No one wants to go through
school, residency to make a ****ty living. Might as well be a
teacher.

All we're doing with it here is hampering real business.
You know, like making products, building things, repairing things,
providing non-health related services.

Agreed.

And I don't mean Wall Street financial paper con games.
Until that's understood by all, it's going to be a f**king mess and
just get worse.
It's really disappointing that the for profit insurance companies and
health care companies and their political cash-gathering cronies have
pulled the wool over the eyes of so many Americans.
Virtually every other modern country is beating our ass.
BTW, here's some perspective.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com...ealth-care.php

and

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezr...in_health.html

Note from the above link about Medicare admin costs,
"Nor does it count most of Medicare's billing, which is outsourced --
and this might surprise people -- to private insurers like Blue Cross
Blue Shield and listed under vendor services rather than program
administration."

Wasn't aware of that.
So all the bitching about Medicare billing can as easily be laid off
on the private insurance industry by those who want to.

It still represents overhead and a cost of providing care. That's why
the gov't is offering stimulus money to those who can devise systems
that do it more efficiently.

And now you know that the private health insurance companies are also
sucking blood from Medicare, which is covered with the private ticks.
Reminds me that the Army can't even cook for itself.
Have to hire Haliburton to do that. $150k slop cooks.
That's besides the backwoods $150k "electricians" they hire to zap
our boys in their showers.
Also brings to mind some of what I read about the work done after
Katrina.
$100k of taxpayer money to the connected general contractor to do the
work.
He gives $80k to the connected sub-contractor to do the work.
Sub gives $60k to the connected sub-sub-contractor to do the work.
Sub-sub pays out $40k in min wages to illegals for a half-assed job.
Multiply it all many times.
The worst of government and free enterprise all wrapped up in one big
ball. Corruption everywhere, and a total cluster****.
I'm ashamed of the leadership in this country.
And I don't see no change yet. Geithner. Summers. Goldman-Sachs.
Just to name a few.
The usual suspects. And business as usual.
If this health care bill doesn't have a strong public option, all hell
is going to break loose for the Dems. Just my guess.
Now, on the bright side, I'll continue to look into moving to Florida,
getting a boat, and do some fishing.

--Vic

I understand your frustration. I own a business that's saddled with
the cost of providing health care coverage. It's been going up
between 10 and 15%/year for the last ten years.

I'm looking at going to that HMO I cited as a way to keep our costs at
a level where we can still manage to provide the benefit. It's an
extraordinary % of overhead. I brought it up six years ago at a
dinner with a local state Rep. They were aware but displayed a tin
ear.