Hypothetical question
 

Well maybe not. But seeing the creation, religion,evolution thread is
getting so long, I thought I'd ask a hypothetical question. Well maybe
it's not as hypothetical , but here goes.

If an English lit teacher was passing out assignments assignments for
students to give a book report. Various books are chosen, some long ,
some short.

OK, the list has several *options* None are specifically required.
Here's a sample list:

"To Kill a Mockingbird"
"All Quiet one the Western Front"
"Gulliver's Travels"
"Moby Dick"
"The book of Matthew"
"Oliver Twist"
"The Trial"

etc, etc.

Notice included is the Gospel account of Matthew. Would this be
considered as promoting religion?

AND! Even if it was required reading. could it be used for literary
purposes only?


Just curious.

Hypothetical question
 

On 10/8/09 8:24 AM, Tim wrote:
Well maybe not. But seeing the creation, religion,evolution thread is
getting so long, I thought I'd ask a hypothetical question. Well maybe
it's not as hypothetical , but here goes.

If an English lit teacher was passing out assignments assignments for
students to give a book report. Various books are chosen, some long ,
some short.

OK, the list has several *options* None are specifically required.
Here's a sample list:

"To Kill a Mockingbird"
"All Quiet one the Western Front"
"Gulliver's Travels"
"Moby Dick"
"The book of Matthew"
"Oliver Twist"
"The Trial"

etc, etc.

Notice included is the Gospel account of Matthew. Would this be
considered as promoting religion?

AND! Even if it was required reading. could it be used for literary
purposes only?


Just curious.


A. By itself, yes, it would be promoting religion. But...as you well
know, there are novels that include biblical passages in their texts.
Why, some of them are on your "sample list"! What a surprise. :)
Moby-Dick, my favorite novel, is nothing if not a religious allegory.


B. The King James bible is a wonderful example of beautiful writing in
the English language, and it certainly could be used as an example of
literature and studied for its literary prowess. That, of course, would
include the gospel of Matthew, which, in addition to its literary
merits, is also a sales letter of the first magnitude. It is perfectly
appropriate for *college* students to study the bible as a literary
work. I did, in getting my masters. It is not appropriate for study in
any manner in public K-12 schools.

C. You obviously are aware of the "connections" between Oliver Twist and
the Church of England. :)

Very clever...







--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

Hypothetical question
 

On Oct 8, 7:50*am, H the K wrote:
On 10/8/09 8:24 AM, Tim wrote:





Well maybe not. But seeing the creation, religion,evolution thread is
getting so long, I thought I'd ask a hypothetical question. Well maybe
it's not as hypothetical , but here goes.

If an English lit teacher was passing out assignments assignments for
students to give a book report. *Various books are chosen, some long ,
some short.

OK, the list has several *options* None are specifically required.
Here's a sample list:

"To Kill a Mockingbird"
* "All Quiet one the Western Front"
"Gulliver's Travels"
"Moby Dick"
"The book of Matthew"
"Oliver Twist"
"The Trial"

etc, etc.

Notice included is the Gospel account of Matthew. *Would this be
considered as promoting religion?

AND! Even if it was required reading. could it be used for literary
purposes only?

Just curious.

A. By itself, yes, it would be promoting religion. But...as you well
know, there are novels that include biblical passages in their texts.
Why, some of them are on your "sample list"! What a surprise. *:)
Moby-Dick, my favorite novel, is nothing if not a religious allegory.

B. The King James bible is a wonderful example of beautiful writing in
the English language, and it certainly could be used as an example of
literature and studied for its literary prowess. That, of course, would
include the gospel of Matthew, which, in addition to its literary
merits, is also a sales letter of the first magnitude. It is perfectly
appropriate for *college* students to study the bible as a literary
work. I did, in getting my masters. It is not appropriate for study in
any manner in public K-12 schools.

C. You obviously are aware of the "connections" between Oliver Twist and
the Church of England. *:)

Very clever...

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sure thing about Ollie. But it is also regarded as classic literature.

Actually I would say that what I posted above isn't actually that
Hypothetical. My highschool teacher (incidently a Lutheran pastors
daughter) proposed about 25 various books to be read. More than what I
listed. Again, none were asigned but all were optional. In my Lit
class of about 18 kids, I and three others chose Matt. two of the kids
were unbelievers. Reports were given and one of the unbelievers got a
higher grade than I. but all was done on a literary and not a
theological stand point.

I would probably have done a report on Mein Kampf if it was available.

?;^ )

Hypothetical question
 

On Oct 8, 9:15*am, Gene wrote:
On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 05:24:40 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:





Well maybe not. But seeing the creation, religion,evolution thread is
getting so long, I thought I'd ask a hypothetical question. Well maybe
it's not as hypothetical , but here goes.

If an English lit teacher was passing out assignments assignments for
students to give a book report. *Various books are chosen, some long ,
some short.

OK, the list has several *options* None are specifically required.
Here's a sample list:

"To Kill a Mockingbird"
"All Quiet one the Western Front"
"Gulliver's Travels"
"Moby Dick"
"The book of Matthew"
"Oliver Twist"
"The Trial"

etc, etc.

That is a rather complex question.

Would we be describing the reading assignment as a selection of one
out of seven fictional books? Or, can you choose the non fiction book
versus one of the six novels.....

On the face of it, given that there are choices, it would seem to be
acceptable. However, I would cry fowl on the basis that the class is
*English Literature* which, by definition, are those texts written in
English. If we are going to offer everything translated into English
as fair game, we might as well just change the course title and
syllabus to World Literature.

Given the course title, if the teacher is compelled to offer some sort
of link to a religious text, I think the Book of Common Prayer would
be more appropriate.



Notice included is the Gospel account of Matthew. *Would this be
considered as promoting religion?

Probably, due to the limitations of choice.

Christianity is a religion developed from Judaism, all of which
developed in the Middle East, a region that spans southwestern Asia,
southeastern Europe, and northeastern Africa.... and as far as I can
tell really has little to do with "English Literature" either
geographically, culturally, linguistically, philosophically, etc.
Thus, why offering a Christian text as an acceptable "English Text"
without also including the (surely translated) Jewish, Buddhist,
Mormon, Sikhism, Zoroastrianism, Islam, Confucianism, Shinto, etc.,
etc. texts.... without even an honorable mention to Classical Paganism
which WAS the original English Religious Literature.... is a bit
cloudy.

AND! Even if it was required reading. could it be used for literary
purposes only?

I doubt that it could be, in this context.

Authorship/Style? Nobody knows who wrote the Book of Matthew and one
can't really discuss Matthew without inclusion of the other three
gospels, most notably Mark (and the non-extant Quelle source), from
which the Book of Matthew was plagiarized.

So, what are you going to ask the students to *do* with that text in
an English Literature course?
--

Forté Agent 5.00 Build 1171

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by
the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do.
So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover." * - Unknown

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
*http://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

First off, it wasn't a "bible study", Gene. and it wasn't to be such.
It was like any other book report. to give an over all critique of
what the author was trying to convey. And honestly, I really don't
rememebr what I wrte about. that was in 1972 and I dont' have the
paper.

No one *had* to chose the Matthew account.

Hypothetical question
 

"Tim" wrote in message
...
Well maybe not. But seeing the creation, religion,evolution thread is
getting so long, I thought I'd ask a hypothetical question. Well maybe
it's not as hypothetical , but here goes.

If an English lit teacher was passing out assignments assignments for
students to give a book report. Various books are chosen, some long ,
some short.

OK, the list has several *options* None are specifically required.
Here's a sample list:

"To Kill a Mockingbird"
"All Quiet one the Western Front"
"Gulliver's Travels"
"Moby Dick"
"The book of Matthew"
"Oliver Twist"
"The Trial"

etc, etc.

Notice included is the Gospel account of Matthew. Would this be
considered as promoting religion?

AND! Even if it was required reading. could it be used for literary
purposes only?


Just curious.


As long as it was treated as literature, thus including information as to
the possible author(s), the historical context, and perhaps a comparison to
other, similar works, it would not be promoting a religion. I've had several
classes where portions of religious works were discusses. No big deal.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Hypothetical question
 

"H the K" wrote in message
...
On 10/8/09 8:24 AM, Tim wrote:
Well maybe not. But seeing the creation, religion,evolution thread is
getting so long, I thought I'd ask a hypothetical question. Well maybe
it's not as hypothetical , but here goes.

If an English lit teacher was passing out assignments assignments for
students to give a book report. Various books are chosen, some long ,
some short.

OK, the list has several *options* None are specifically required.
Here's a sample list:

"To Kill a Mockingbird"
"All Quiet one the Western Front"
"Gulliver's Travels"
"Moby Dick"
"The book of Matthew"
"Oliver Twist"
"The Trial"

etc, etc.

Notice included is the Gospel account of Matthew. Would this be
considered as promoting religion?

AND! Even if it was required reading. could it be used for literary
purposes only?


Just curious.


A. By itself, yes, it would be promoting religion. But...as you well know,
there are novels that include biblical passages in their texts.
Why, some of them are on your "sample list"! What a surprise. :)
Moby-Dick, my favorite novel, is nothing if not a religious allegory.


B. The King James bible is a wonderful example of beautiful writing in the
English language, and it certainly could be used as an example of
literature and studied for its literary prowess. That, of course, would
include the gospel of Matthew, which, in addition to its literary merits,
is also a sales letter of the first magnitude. It is perfectly appropriate
for *college* students to study the bible as a literary work. I did, in
getting my masters. It is not appropriate for study in any manner in
public K-12 schools.

C. You obviously are aware of the "connections" between Oliver Twist and
the Church of England. :)

Very clever...


I would imagine it would be appropriate for high school students also, as
long as reasonable parameters are given.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Hypothetical question
 

"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Oct 8, 9:15 am, Gene wrote:
On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 05:24:40 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:





Well maybe not. But seeing the creation, religion,evolution thread is
getting so long, I thought I'd ask a hypothetical question. Well maybe
it's not as hypothetical , but here goes.

If an English lit teacher was passing out assignments assignments for
students to give a book report. Various books are chosen, some long ,
some short.

OK, the list has several *options* None are specifically required.
Here's a sample list:

"To Kill a Mockingbird"
"All Quiet one the Western Front"
"Gulliver's Travels"
"Moby Dick"
"The book of Matthew"
"Oliver Twist"
"The Trial"

etc, etc.

That is a rather complex question.

Would we be describing the reading assignment as a selection of one
out of seven fictional books? Or, can you choose the non fiction book
versus one of the six novels.....

On the face of it, given that there are choices, it would seem to be
acceptable. However, I would cry fowl on the basis that the class is
*English Literature* which, by definition, are those texts written in
English. If we are going to offer everything translated into English
as fair game, we might as well just change the course title and
syllabus to World Literature.

Given the course title, if the teacher is compelled to offer some sort
of link to a religious text, I think the Book of Common Prayer would
be more appropriate.



Notice included is the Gospel account of Matthew. Would this be
considered as promoting religion?

Probably, due to the limitations of choice.

Christianity is a religion developed from Judaism, all of which
developed in the Middle East, a region that spans southwestern Asia,
southeastern Europe, and northeastern Africa.... and as far as I can
tell really has little to do with "English Literature" either
geographically, culturally, linguistically, philosophically, etc.
Thus, why offering a Christian text as an acceptable "English Text"
without also including the (surely translated) Jewish, Buddhist,
Mormon, Sikhism, Zoroastrianism, Islam, Confucianism, Shinto, etc.,
etc. texts.... without even an honorable mention to Classical Paganism
which WAS the original English Religious Literature.... is a bit
cloudy.

AND! Even if it was required reading. could it be used for literary
purposes only?

I doubt that it could be, in this context.

Authorship/Style? Nobody knows who wrote the Book of Matthew and one
can't really discuss Matthew without inclusion of the other three
gospels, most notably Mark (and the non-extant Quelle source), from
which the Book of Matthew was plagiarized.

So, what are you going to ask the students to *do* with that text in
an English Literature course?
--

Forté Agent 5.00 Build 1171

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by
the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do.
So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover." - Unknown

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

First off, it wasn't a "bible study", Gene. and it wasn't to be such.
It was like any other book report. to give an over all critique of
what the author was trying to convey. And honestly, I really don't
rememebr what I wrte about. that was in 1972 and I dont' have the
paper.

No one *had* to chose the Matthew account.


Tim, I just want to say that this is a really thought-provoking questions!
It's quite different than trying to discuss the absolute thruth of
something, which could be more of a bible-study class... e.g., here's the
truth, no explanation needed. You could take A Christmas Carol, for example,
and examine it in it's historical context and not just that it's (great)
literature). The reason I mention the latter is because I listened to
Olbermann's hour long Special Comment last night. There was no politicizing
(or not much) and the hour flew by. He mentioned A Christmas Carol in
historical context as compared to today (with the healthcare crisis). I'm
sure it's available somewhere online. If you get a chance, I think it would
be interesting to hear your perspective.

Em

--
Nom=de=Plume

Hypothetical question
 

On Oct 8, 12:51*pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"H the K" wrote in ...





On 10/8/09 8:24 AM, Tim wrote:
Well maybe not. But seeing the creation, religion,evolution thread is
getting so long, I thought I'd ask a hypothetical question. Well maybe
it's not as hypothetical , but here goes.

If an English lit teacher was passing out assignments assignments for
students to give a book report. *Various books are chosen, some long ,
some short.

OK, the list has several *options* None are specifically required.
Here's a sample list:

"To Kill a Mockingbird"
* "All Quiet one the Western Front"
"Gulliver's Travels"
"Moby Dick"
"The book of Matthew"
"Oliver Twist"
"The Trial"

etc, etc.

Notice included is the Gospel account of Matthew. *Would this be
considered as promoting religion?

AND! Even if it was required reading. could it be used for literary
purposes only?

Just curious.

A. By itself, yes, it would be promoting religion. But...as you well know,
there are novels that include biblical passages in their texts.
Why, some of them are on your "sample list"! What a surprise. *:)
Moby-Dick, my favorite novel, is nothing if not a religious allegory.

B. The King James bible is a wonderful example of beautiful writing in the
English language, and it certainly could be used as an example of
literature and studied for its literary prowess. That, of course, would
include the gospel of Matthew, which, in addition to its literary merits,
is also a sales letter of the first magnitude. It is perfectly appropriate
for *college* students to study the bible as a literary work. I did, in
getting my masters. It is not appropriate for study in any manner in
public K-12 schools.

C. You obviously are aware of the "connections" between Oliver Twist and
the Church of England. *:)

Very clever...

I would imagine it would be appropriate for high school students also, as
long as reasonable parameters are given.

--
Nom=de=Plume- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Which even today, I believe were.

Hypothetical question
 

On Oct 8, 12:56*pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message

...
On Oct 8, 9:15 am, Gene wrote:





On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 05:24:40 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

Well maybe not. But seeing the creation, religion,evolution thread is
getting so long, I thought I'd ask a hypothetical question. Well maybe
it's not as hypothetical , but here goes.

If an English lit teacher was passing out assignments assignments for
students to give a book report. Various books are chosen, some long ,
some short.

OK, the list has several *options* None are specifically required.
Here's a sample list:

"To Kill a Mockingbird"
"All Quiet one the Western Front"
"Gulliver's Travels"
"Moby Dick"
"The book of Matthew"
"Oliver Twist"
"The Trial"

etc, etc.

That is a rather complex question.

Would we be describing the reading assignment as a selection of one
out of seven fictional books? Or, can you choose the non fiction book
versus one of the six novels.....

On the face of it, given that there are choices, it would seem to be
acceptable. However, I would cry fowl on the basis that the class is
*English Literature* which, by definition, are those texts written in
English. If we are going to offer everything translated into English
as fair game, we might as well just change the course title and
syllabus to World Literature.

Given the course title, if the teacher is compelled to offer some sort
of link to a religious text, I think the Book of Common Prayer would
be more appropriate.

Notice included is the Gospel account of Matthew. Would this be
considered as promoting religion?

Probably, due to the limitations of choice.

Christianity is a religion developed from Judaism, all of which
developed in the Middle East, a region that spans southwestern Asia,
southeastern Europe, and northeastern Africa.... and as far as I can
tell really has little to do with "English Literature" either
geographically, culturally, linguistically, philosophically, etc.
Thus, why offering a Christian text as an acceptable "English Text"
without also including the (surely translated) Jewish, Buddhist,
Mormon, Sikhism, Zoroastrianism, Islam, Confucianism, Shinto, etc.,
etc. texts.... without even an honorable mention to Classical Paganism
which WAS the original English Religious Literature.... is a bit
cloudy.

AND! Even if it was required reading. could it be used for literary
purposes only?

I doubt that it could be, in this context.

Authorship/Style? Nobody knows who wrote the Book of Matthew and one
can't really discuss Matthew without inclusion of the other three
gospels, most notably Mark (and the non-extant Quelle source), from
which the Book of Matthew was plagiarized.

So, what are you going to ask the students to *do* with that text in
an English Literature course?
--

Forté Agent 5.00 Build 1171

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by
the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do.
So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover." - Unknown

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
First off, it wasn't a "bible study", Gene. and it wasn't to be such.
It was like any other book report. to give an over all critique of
what the author was trying to *convey. And honestly, I really don't
rememebr what I wrte about. that was in 1972 and I dont' have the
paper.

No one *had* to chose the Matthew account.

Tim, I just want to say that this is a really thought-provoking questions!
It's quite different than trying to discuss the absolute thruth of
something, which could be more of a bible-study class... e.g., here's the
truth, no explanation needed. You could take A Christmas Carol, for example,
and examine it in it's historical context and not just that it's (great)
literature). The reason I mention the latter is because I listened to
Olbermann's hour long Special Comment last night. There was no politicizing
(or not much) and the hour flew by. He mentioned A Christmas Carol in
historical context as compared to today (with the healthcare crisis). I'm
sure it's available somewhere online. If you get a chance, I think it would
be interesting to hear your perspective.

Em

--
Nom=de=Plume- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'll have to look into that.

Thanks!

Hypothetical question
 

On Oct 8, 12:21*pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message

...





Well maybe not. But seeing the creation, religion,evolution thread is
getting so long, I thought I'd ask a hypothetical question. Well maybe
it's not as hypothetical , but here goes.

If an English lit teacher was passing out assignments assignments for
students to give a book report. *Various books are chosen, some long ,
some short.

OK, the list has several *options* None are specifically required.
Here's a sample list:

"To Kill a Mockingbird"
"All Quiet one the Western Front"
"Gulliver's Travels"
"Moby Dick"
"The book of Matthew"
"Oliver Twist"
"The Trial"

etc, etc.

Notice included is the Gospel account of Matthew. *Would this be
considered as promoting religion?

AND! Even if it was required reading. could it be used for literary
purposes only?

Just curious.

As long as it was treated as literature, thus including information as to
the possible author(s), the historical context, and perhaps a comparison to
other, similar works, it would not be promoting a religion. I've had several
classes where portions of religious works were discusses. No big deal.

--
Nom=de=Plume- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

my thoughts too!