Well, i wen'tt o fire up the boat and man was it hard to start. Lots
of starter time counting p[umping the throttle to get it to slobber
around then die like I'd shut the key off. I got thinking , something
obviously want right, so I took off the spark arrester/ breather, and
pumped the carb, and sure enough, no fuel.

hmmm, I took the top off bowel off the mechanical fuel pump and even
thogh the little fuel filter looked "OK" i took it out and hit the key
some more, with no success. OK, that did it. I pulled the bowl off the
fuel pump again and sure enough I could see gasoline in the bottom of
the pump but obviously the upper part of the pump was dry. I would
say that the diaphragm an/or the check valve was out of the pump and
not letting fuel to go up to the Carburetor.

I called NAPA to see about a replacement fuel pump and they said there
were two different ones for the 3.0 mercruiser engine, and I'd need
the numbers off the base of the carb. Just for the fun of it I asked
how much, and both pumps were close to $200.00.

http://www.sterndrive.info/sitebuild...-fuel-pump.jpg

I asked if they have a low pressure electric pump. Yes they did at
$47.00 plus tx.

And it happened to be AC-Delco similar to this one.

http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/restore/pics2/4047.jpg

So I took the old pump off and fortunately there was no gas in the
oil, and installed a cover plate and gasket over the hole where the
mechanical pump was. and installed the electric pump and a fuel
filter.

http://www.firehow.com/images/storie...uel-filter.jpg

It took a bit of doing, but I mounted the pump and filter securely,
and used some old inner tube to make the pump more shock resistant.
Believe it or not, I DID do a pretty professionally looking job!

Secured the ground to the pump, and took the ign. side, soldered a
splice, wrapped and heated shrink wrap to the splice,and ran the 12
g. wire to a 20a fuse holder,

http://www.water4gasmfg.com/images/Fuse%20holder.jpg

attached the wire to the ignition "on" switch. ( the switch is either
on or off, so no brainer there. ) and tucked it neatly under the dash.

left the throttle in neutral position turned the key o, , waited a few
seconds and check for leaks... all secure, and hit the starter button.
the engine immediately started. let it run for a bit to get up to
operating temp. (135 degrees raw water) and check for leaks and shut
it off. no leaks or fumes. hit the button again, and immediate
starting!

ooooh I love it!

I installed a Pertronix electronic ignition a couple years ago because
I thought that had something to do with the rough starting and it
"helped" but still I'd had to do a lot of cranking, but it all seemed
to run alright. But now it's just plain fantastic.

I'm glad that miserable mechanical pump didn't quit out in the middle
of the lake with the nephews.

Now the disclaimer, I always carry a generous wiring kit w/terminals,
and a good selection of tools tape, and clamps. as well as a spare
prop.

These electric pumps have lasted over 100,000 in automotive use, so I
don't think a few hits on the lake will phase it much. I might try to
get a rebuild kit for the mechanical, and put it together and keep it
under the seat of the boat "just in case" But if I can't, I won't
sweat it.

"Tim" wrote in message
...
Well, i wen'tt o fire up the boat and man was it hard to start. Lots
of starter time counting p[umping the throttle to get it to slobber
around then die like I'd shut the key off. I got thinking , something
obviously want right, so I took off the spark arrester/ breather, and
pumped the carb, and sure enough, no fuel.

hmmm, I took the top off bowel off the mechanical fuel pump and even
thogh the little fuel filter looked "OK" i took it out and hit the key
some more, with no success. OK, that did it. I pulled the bowl off the
fuel pump again and sure enough I could see gasoline in the bottom of
the pump but obviously the upper part of the pump was dry. I would
say that the diaphragm an/or the check valve was out of the pump and
not letting fuel to go up to the Carburetor.

I called NAPA to see about a replacement fuel pump and they said there
were two different ones for the 3.0 mercruiser engine, and I'd need
the numbers off the base of the carb. Just for the fun of it I asked
how much, and both pumps were close to $200.00.

http://www.sterndrive.info/sitebuild...-fuel-pump.jpg

I asked if they have a low pressure electric pump. Yes they did at
$47.00 plus tx.

And it happened to be AC-Delco similar to this one.

http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/restore/pics2/4047.jpg

So I took the old pump off and fortunately there was no gas in the
oil, and installed a cover plate and gasket over the hole where the
mechanical pump was. and installed the electric pump and a fuel
filter.

http://www.firehow.com/images/storie...uel-filter.jpg

It took a bit of doing, but I mounted the pump and filter securely,
and used some old inner tube to make the pump more shock resistant.
Believe it or not, I DID do a pretty professionally looking job!

Secured the ground to the pump, and took the ign. side, soldered a
splice, wrapped and heated shrink wrap to the splice,and ran the 12
g. wire to a 20a fuse holder,

http://www.water4gasmfg.com/images/Fuse%20holder.jpg

attached the wire to the ignition "on" switch. ( the switch is either
on or off, so no brainer there. ) and tucked it neatly under the dash.

left the throttle in neutral position turned the key o, , waited a few
seconds and check for leaks... all secure, and hit the starter button.
the engine immediately started. let it run for a bit to get up to
operating temp. (135 degrees raw water) and check for leaks and shut
it off. no leaks or fumes. hit the button again, and immediate
starting!

ooooh I love it!

I installed a Pertronix electronic ignition a couple years ago because
I thought that had something to do with the rough starting and it
"helped" but still I'd had to do a lot of cranking, but it all seemed
to run alright. But now it's just plain fantastic.

I'm glad that miserable mechanical pump didn't quit out in the middle
of the lake with the nephews.

Now the disclaimer, I always carry a generous wiring kit w/terminals,
and a good selection of tools tape, and clamps. as well as a spare
prop.

These electric pumps have lasted over 100,000 in automotive use, so I
don't think a few hits on the lake will phase it much. I might try to
get a rebuild kit for the mechanical, and put it together and keep it
under the seat of the boat "just in case" But if I can't, I won't
sweat it.

The mechanical fuel pump was used as a safety measure, even when electric
pumps were available.. If the engine isn't cranking or running, no fuel is
being pumped. Later engines use electronic pumps, but unlike a car, they are
wired so fuel is only pumped when the engine is cranking to start, or there
is positive oil pressure. The result is the same as if it were mechanical...
if the engine isn't cranking or running, no fuel pressure.

You have bypassed all of that by installing an electric pump that's wired to
be on when the key is on. I'm not saying that you're gonna blow up tomorrow,
but I sure as hell wouldn't leave the key in the "on" position for long
before starting. I'm confident that you can find a schematic online to wire
it properly, and from reading your post, I'm sure you could do it.

Be careful.

--Mike

mgg wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message
...
Well, i wen'tt o fire up the boat and man was it hard to start. Lots
of starter time counting p[umping the throttle to get it to slobber
around then die like I'd shut the key off. I got thinking , something
obviously want right, so I took off the spark arrester/ breather, and
pumped the carb, and sure enough, no fuel.

hmmm, I took the top off bowel off the mechanical fuel pump and even
thogh the little fuel filter looked "OK" i took it out and hit the key
some more, with no success. OK, that did it. I pulled the bowl off the
fuel pump again and sure enough I could see gasoline in the bottom of
the pump but obviously the upper part of the pump was dry. I would
say that the diaphragm an/or the check valve was out of the pump and
not letting fuel to go up to the Carburetor.

I called NAPA to see about a replacement fuel pump and they said there
were two different ones for the 3.0 mercruiser engine, and I'd need
the numbers off the base of the carb. Just for the fun of it I asked
how much, and both pumps were close to $200.00.

http://www.sterndrive.info/sitebuild...-fuel-pump.jpg

I asked if they have a low pressure electric pump. Yes they did at
$47.00 plus tx.

And it happened to be AC-Delco similar to this one.

http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/restore/pics2/4047.jpg

So I took the old pump off and fortunately there was no gas in the
oil, and installed a cover plate and gasket over the hole where the
mechanical pump was. and installed the electric pump and a fuel
filter.

http://www.firehow.com/images/storie...uel-filter.jpg

It took a bit of doing, but I mounted the pump and filter securely,
and used some old inner tube to make the pump more shock resistant.
Believe it or not, I DID do a pretty professionally looking job!

Secured the ground to the pump, and took the ign. side, soldered a
splice, wrapped and heated shrink wrap to the splice,and ran the 12
g. wire to a 20a fuse holder,

http://www.water4gasmfg.com/images/Fuse%20holder.jpg

attached the wire to the ignition "on" switch. ( the switch is either
on or off, so no brainer there. ) and tucked it neatly under the dash.

left the throttle in neutral position turned the key o, , waited a few
seconds and check for leaks... all secure, and hit the starter button.
the engine immediately started. let it run for a bit to get up to
operating temp. (135 degrees raw water) and check for leaks and shut
it off. no leaks or fumes. hit the button again, and immediate
starting!

ooooh I love it!

I installed a Pertronix electronic ignition a couple years ago because
I thought that had something to do with the rough starting and it
"helped" but still I'd had to do a lot of cranking, but it all seemed
to run alright. But now it's just plain fantastic.

I'm glad that miserable mechanical pump didn't quit out in the middle
of the lake with the nephews.

Now the disclaimer, I always carry a generous wiring kit w/terminals,
and a good selection of tools tape, and clamps. as well as a spare
prop.

These electric pumps have lasted over 100,000 in automotive use, so I
don't think a few hits on the lake will phase it much. I might try to
get a rebuild kit for the mechanical, and put it together and keep it
under the seat of the boat "just in case" But if I can't, I won't
sweat it.

The mechanical fuel pump was used as a safety measure, even when electric
pumps were available.. If the engine isn't cranking or running, no fuel is
being pumped. Later engines use electronic pumps, but unlike a car, they are
wired so fuel is only pumped when the engine is cranking to start, or there
is positive oil pressure. The result is the same as if it were mechanical...
if the engine isn't cranking or running, no fuel pressure.

You have bypassed all of that by installing an electric pump that's wired to
be on when the key is on. I'm not saying that you're gonna blow up tomorrow,
but I sure as hell wouldn't leave the key in the "on" position for long
before starting. I'm confident that you can find a schematic online to wire
it properly, and from reading your post, I'm sure you could do it.

Be careful.

--Mike



You are exactly right. Tim needs to install an oil pressure switch to
power the pump while the engine is running and wire up to the ignition
switch terminal on the starter solenoid to power the pump when the
engine is cranking.

On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:22:38 -0700, "mgg" wrote:

You have bypassed all of that by installing an electric pump that's wired to
be on when the key is on. I'm not saying that you're gonna blow up tomorrow,
but I sure as hell wouldn't leave the key in the "on" position for long
before starting. I'm confident that you can find a schematic online to wire
it properly, and from reading your post, I'm sure you could do it.

Both Mike and Gene make good points regarding safety. I've seen a
few gasoline fires on boats and they are not a good thing. One of my
old sailboats had a gasoline engine with an electric fuel pump, and
also the gasoline generator on my old Bertram. Both had the fuel
pump wired in series with the oil pressure sender so that the pump was
guaranteed to be off if the engine was not running.

On Sep 22, 9:46*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:22:38 -0700, "mgg" wrote:
You have bypassed all of that by installing an electric pump that's wired to
be on when the key is on. I'm not saying that you're gonna blow up tomorrow,
but I sure as hell wouldn't leave the key in the "on" position for long
before starting. I'm confident that you can find a schematic online to wire
it properly, and from reading your post, I'm sure you could do it.

Both Mike and Gene make good points regarding safety. * I've seen a
few gasoline fires on boats and they are not a good thing. * One of my
old sailboats had a gasoline engine with an electric fuel pump, and
also the gasoline generator on my old Bertram. * Both had the fuel
pump wired in series with the oil pressure sender so that the pump was
guaranteed to be off if the engine was not running.

Gentlemen, all points are taking well into consideration. I have a
murphy switch and can install it accordingly. I will be installing it
a well as an ignition relay that will kill the power to the pump in
case of engine shut down. it's not hard to do. . I made this
preliminary post so that I could see how it would operate, and it did
function as desired. I'm also going to change out the key switch with
"Bat", "Ign" and "start" , and do away with the button switch.

believe it or not, I am more of a forward thinker than what some may
think.

?;^)

On Sep 22, 9:10*pm, Gene wrote:
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:59:55 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:



Well, i wen'tt o fire up the boat and man was it hard to start. Lots
of starter time counting p[umping the throttle to get it to slobber
around then die like I'd shut the key off. I got thinking , something
obviously want right, so I took off the spark arrester/ breather, and
pumped the carb, and sure enough, no fuel.

hmmm, I took the top off bowel off the mechanical fuel pump and even
thogh the little fuel filter looked "OK" i took it out and hit the key
some more, with no success. OK, that did it. I pulled the bowl off the
fuel pump again and sure enough I could see gasoline in the bottom of
the pump but obviously the upper part of the pump was dry. *I would
say that the diaphragm an/or the check valve was out of the pump and
not letting fuel to go up to the Carburetor.

I called NAPA to see about a replacement fuel pump and they said there
were two different ones for the 3.0 mercruiser engine, and I'd need
the numbers off the base of the carb. Just for the fun of it I asked
how much, and both pumps were close to $200.00.

http://www.sterndrive.info/sitebuild...erpictures/MM-...

I asked if they *have a low pressure electric pump. Yes they did at
$47.00 plus tx.

And it happened to be AC-Delco similar to this one.

http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/restore/pics2/4047.jpg

So I took the old pump off and fortunately there was no gas in the
oil, and installed a cover plate and gasket *over the hole where the
mechanical pump was. and installed the electric pump and a fuel
filter.

http://www.firehow.com/images/storie...uel-filter.jpg

It took a bit of doing, but I mounted the pump and filter securely,
and used some old inner tube to make the pump more shock resistant.
Believe it or not, I DID do a pretty professionally looking job!

Secured the ground to the pump, and took the ign. side, soldered a
splice, wrapped and heated shrink wrap to the splice,and ran the *12
g. wire to *a 20a fuse holder,

http://www.water4gasmfg.com/images/Fuse%20holder.jpg

attached the wire to the ignition "on" switch. ( the switch is either
on or off, so no brainer there. ) and tucked it neatly under the dash.

left the throttle in neutral position turned the key o, , waited a few
seconds and check for leaks... all secure, and hit the starter button.
the engine immediately started. *let it run for a bit to get up to
operating temp. (135 degrees raw water) and check for leaks and shut
it off. no leaks or fumes. hit the button again, and immediate
starting!

ooooh I love it!

I installed a Pertronix electronic ignition a couple years ago because
I thought that had something to do with the rough starting and it
"helped" but still I'd had to do a lot of cranking, but it all seemed
to run alright. But now it's just plain fantastic.

I'm glad that miserable mechanical pump didn't quit out in the middle
of the lake with the nephews.

Now the disclaimer, *I always carry a generous wiring kit w/terminals,
and a good selection of tools tape, and clamps. as well as a spare
prop.

These electric pumps have lasted over 100,000 in automotive use, so I
don't think a few hits on the lake will phase it much. *I might try to
get a rebuild kit for the mechanical, and put it together and keep it
under the seat of the boat "just in case" *But if I can't, I won't
sweat it.

My personal observations, but what the heck.....

I would never... repeat, NEVER use an electric fuel pump on a boat. I
don't think they are a good idea on an automobile, either... but a
boat? *holy crap..... (read this.... when the engine stops, the fuel
REALLY needs to stop, too.)

I would NEVER make a soldered connection on any sort of junction that
*might* be subject to vibration and/or movement.

Fuel + spark = OMG.....

I'm glad that you diagnosed the problem correctly. Your fix would, 30
miles off shore, scare the sh*t out of me.....
--
Thank you Gene, I soldered the wire to make a good bond, and shrink
wrapped the connection to not only protect it fro elements, vibration
but also for spark arresting purposes. Of course I could have used a
wing nut, scotch-lok, or a generous supply of "mexican solder
" (black tape) over twisted wire.

Believe me, I have much more faith in my soldering methods than I do
in many of my customers hack and 'get by' noodlings I see on cars and
tractors on a near daily basis.

And for the lake boating I do, I don't think I'll have to worry about
being out 30 miles.

On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:59:27 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Sep 22, 9:46*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:22:38 -0700, "mgg" wrote:
You have bypassed all of that by installing an electric pump that's wired to
be on when the key is on. I'm not saying that you're gonna blow up tomorrow,
but I sure as hell wouldn't leave the key in the "on" position for long
before starting. I'm confident that you can find a schematic online to wire
it properly, and from reading your post, I'm sure you could do it.

Both Mike and Gene make good points regarding safety. * I've seen a
few gasoline fires on boats and they are not a good thing. * One of my
old sailboats had a gasoline engine with an electric fuel pump, and
also the gasoline generator on my old Bertram. * Both had the fuel
pump wired in series with the oil pressure sender so that the pump was
guaranteed to be off if the engine was not running.

Gentlemen, all points are taking well into consideration. I have a
murphy switch and can install it accordingly. I will be installing it
a well as an ignition relay that will kill the power to the pump in
case of engine shut down. it's not hard to do. . I made this
preliminary post so that I could see how it would operate, and it did
function as desired. I'm also going to change out the key switch with
"Bat", "Ign" and "start" , and do away with the button switch.

believe it or not, I am more of a forward thinker than what some may
think.

?;^)

Well, I'm impressed with the whole project. Yes, there are some safety
issues to be overcome, but you'll do that.

Me, I would have put the boat in the marina and said, 'Charlie, fix
it.'
--

John H

On Sep 23, 5:07*am, JohnH wrote:
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:59:27 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:



On Sep 22, 9:46*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:22:38 -0700, "mgg" wrote:
You have bypassed all of that by installing an electric pump that's wired to
be on when the key is on. I'm not saying that you're gonna blow up tomorrow,
but I sure as hell wouldn't leave the key in the "on" position for long
before starting. I'm confident that you can find a schematic online to wire
it properly, and from reading your post, I'm sure you could do it.

Both Mike and Gene make good points regarding safety. * I've seen a
few gasoline fires on boats and they are not a good thing. * One of my
old sailboats had a gasoline engine with an electric fuel pump, and
also the gasoline generator on my old Bertram. * Both had the fuel
pump wired in series with the oil pressure sender so that the pump was
guaranteed to be off if the engine was not running.

Gentlemen, all points are taking well into consideration. I have a
murphy switch and can install it accordingly. I will be installing it
a well as an ignition relay that will kill the power to the pump in
case of engine shut down. it's not hard to do. . I made this
preliminary post so that I could see how it would operate, and it did
function as desired. I'm also going to change out *the key switch with
"Bat", "Ign" and "start" , and do away with the button switch.

believe it or not, I am more of a forward thinker than what some may
think.

?;^)

Well, I'm impressed with the whole project. Yes, there are some safety
issues to be overcome, but you'll do that.


--

John H

Yes, in the primitive sense there are some safety issues, but they're
really not hard to over come. In fact, the way it is set up now,
would probably be fine with no incident happening, but the safety
measures are worth the little bit of effort.

Me, I would have put the boat in the marina and said, 'Charlie, fix
it.'

LOL!

I know. That's why every day I go to work, and you go to the golf
course.

JohnH wrote:
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:59:27 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Sep 22, 9:46 pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:22:38 -0700, "mgg" wrote:
You have bypassed all of that by installing an electric pump that's wired to
be on when the key is on. I'm not saying that you're gonna blow up tomorrow,
but I sure as hell wouldn't leave the key in the "on" position for long
before starting. I'm confident that you can find a schematic online to wire
it properly, and from reading your post, I'm sure you could do it.
Both Mike and Gene make good points regarding safety. I've seen a
few gasoline fires on boats and they are not a good thing. One of my
old sailboats had a gasoline engine with an electric fuel pump, and
also the gasoline generator on my old Bertram. Both had the fuel
pump wired in series with the oil pressure sender so that the pump was
guaranteed to be off if the engine was not running.
Gentlemen, all points are taking well into consideration. I have a
murphy switch and can install it accordingly. I will be installing it
a well as an ignition relay that will kill the power to the pump in
case of engine shut down. it's not hard to do. . I made this
preliminary post so that I could see how it would operate, and it did
function as desired. I'm also going to change out the key switch with
"Bat", "Ign" and "start" , and do away with the button switch.

believe it or not, I am more of a forward thinker than what some may
think.

?;^)

Well, I'm impressed with the whole project. Yes, there are some safety
issues to be overcome, but you'll do that.













That's what Harry would have done.
Me, I would have put the boat in the marina and said, 'Charlie, fix
it.'
--

John H

In article 7512aef2-3dcc-4863-96b1-319f6d131928
@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com, says...



Gentlemen,...



Geeze Tim, never known you to get "****ed" before...

--
Dad loves his family, and he was a soldier. He wanted us all to remember
that...