On Sep 26, 10:35*pm, Zombywoof wrote:


I've been an Exempt Employee all my adult life and have been at two
Companies while they went through the Unionization process. *

and i've worked for both unionized and non unionized companies.
unionized companies are healthier


In one Management was absolutely more then happy to see their workers
unionize because it allowed them to dump a ****-load of personnel
programs that weren't required by law, and costing them tons of money.\\

things like vacations...won by union workers? you ready to give up
weekends and vacations?


In the other management took what is more the normally perceived
action and attempted to dissuade the workers from organizing. *Of
course since they really can't prevent it they eventually develop

and since there's no penalty for firing workers engaged in unionizing,
that's what companies do. then they cry when things like the EFCA are
proposed

ed a
"How can we best turn this to our advantage approach". *In very, very
high level Executive Management discussions it was decided to wait and
see what the end-result of collective bargaining was going to be on
the bottom line, usually an increase in hourly wages, then balance the
ledger with numerous & massive cuts in the existing quality of life
programs. *Once again the employees perceived a win, yeah were making
more money, but took it in the ass on all sorts of benefits & perks.
--

chuckle what i've seen is that unionized companies are actually
healthier since unions act as a check on unlimited exec power. unions
win benefits for both exempt and non-exempt employees.

non unionized companies screw their workers like they're $2 whores.
and the right, with their deep, abiding disgust at the very existence
of the middle class, hates unions

wf3h wrote in news:5fd30d3f-a0b3-4621-b9fc-
:

On Sep 26, 10:35*pm, Zombywoof wrote:


I've been an Exempt Employee all my adult life and have been at two
Companies while they went through the Unionization process. *

and i've worked for both unionized and non unionized companies.
unionized companies are healthier

So have I and, no, they aren't necessarily healthier.

In one Management was absolutely more then happy to see their workers
unionize because it allowed them to dump a ****-load of personnel
programs that weren't required by law, and costing them tons of money.
\\

things like vacations...won by union workers? you ready to give up
weekends and vacations?

I had an excellent vacation plan. No union. I had merit pay. No union.
I had mission pay when needed or was able to give to my employees. No
union. We had open communication on salaries and how they were given.

In the other management took what is more the normally perceived
action and attempted to dissuade the workers from organizing. *Of
course since they really can't prevent it they eventually develop

and since there's no penalty for firing workers engaged in unionizing,
that's what companies do.

Au contraire, mon ami. There are heavy penalties for doing that. Say
what you wish about unions but don't bull****.

then they cry when things like the EFCA are
proposed

ed a
"How can we best turn this to our advantage approach". *In very, very
high level Executive Management discussions it was decided to wait and
see what the end-result of collective bargaining was going to be on
the bottom line, usually an increase in hourly wages, then balance the
ledger with numerous & massive cuts in the existing quality of life
programs. *Once again the employees perceived a win, yeah were making
more money, but took it in the ass on all sorts of benefits & perks.
--

chuckle what i've seen is that unionized companies are actually
healthier since unions act as a check on unlimited exec power. unions
win benefits for both exempt and non-exempt employees.

While getting them screwed on other things.

non unionized companies screw their workers like they're $2 whores.

Some did.....most didn't. Of course, the unions did everything they
could to convince employees that was true. Looks like it worked with
you.

and the right, with their deep, abiding disgust at the very existence
of the middle class, hates unions

So do most people who believe in individual accountability and pay and
promotions via merit rather than longevity.



--
Sleep well tonight,

RD (The Sandman)

"Fear is the foundation of most governments."

President John Adams

On Sep 28, 11:02*am, "RD (The Sandman)" rdsandman(spamlock)
@comcast.net wrote:
wf3h wrote in news:5fd30d3f-a0b3-4621-b9fc-
:

On Sep 26, 10:35*pm, Zombywoof wrote:

I've been an Exempt Employee all my adult life and have been at two
Companies while they went through the Unionization process. *

and i've worked for both unionized and non unionized companies.
unionized companies are healthier

So have I and, no, they aren't necessarily healthier.

not necessarily, but generally...




In one Management was absolutely more then happy to see their workers
unionize because it allowed them to dump a ****-load of personnel
programs that weren't required by law, and costing them tons of money.
\\

things like vacations...won by union workers? you ready to give up
weekends and vacations?

I had an excellent vacation plan. *No union. *I had merit pay. *No union. *

guess where 'vacations' came from. you think you'd have a vacation
without unions?

merit pay? why not read what w. edwards deming said about 'performance
reviews', etc....

I had mission pay when needed or was able to give to my employees. *No
union. *We had open communication on salaries and how they were given.

In the other management took what is more the normally perceived
action and attempted to dissuade the workers from organizing. *Of
course since they really can't prevent it they eventually develop

and since there's no penalty for firing workers engaged in unionizing,
that's what companies do.

Au contraire, mon ami. *There are heavy penalties for doing that. *Say
what you wish about unions but don't bull****.

uh...no. what 'heavy penalties' are there?

answer: none. no penalty at all, regardless of what the right wing
says.

the ONLY 'penalty' is that, after YEARS of expensive litigation, you
have to hire the person back and give them back pay.

wow. impressive.
--

chuckle what i've seen is that unionized companies are actually
healthier since unions act as a check on unlimited exec power. *unions
win benefits for both exempt and non-exempt employees.

While getting them screwed on other things.

ah. 'other things'. that's kind of like 'they say'...


non unionized companies screw their workers like they're $2 whores.

Some did.....most didn't. *Of course, the unions did everything they
could to convince employees that was true. *Looks like it worked with
you.

and you sucked down the management kool aid...you're just a bobble
head doll for management


and the right, with their deep, abiding disgust at the very existence
of the middle class, hates unions

So do most people who believe in individual accountability and pay and
promotions via merit rather than longevity.


fine. you go show me the data that companies actually hire and fire on
'merit'.

as deming said 'in god we trust, all others bring data'.

where's your data? so far all you've proven is that NON unionized
semiconductor houses are gone.

wf3h wrote in
:

On Sep 28, 11:02*am, "RD (The Sandman)" rdsandman(spamlock)
@comcast.net wrote:
wf3h wrote in news:5fd30d3f-a0b3-4621-b9fc-
:

On Sep 26, 10:35*pm, Zombywoof wrote:

I've been an Exempt Employee all my adult life and have been at
two Companies while they went through the Unionization process. *

and i've worked for both unionized and non unionized companies.
unionized companies are healthier

So have I and, no, they aren't necessarily healthier.

not necessarily, but generally...




In one Management was absolutely more then happy to see their
workers unionize because it allowed them to dump a ****-load of
personnel programs that weren't required by law, and costing them
tons of money.
\\

things like vacations...won by union workers? you ready to give up
weekends and vacations?

I had an excellent vacation plan. *No union. *I had merit pay. *No
union. *

guess where 'vacations' came from. you think you'd have a vacation
without unions?

merit pay? why not read what w. edwards deming said about 'performance
reviews', etc....

I have.....have you?

I had mission pay when needed or was able to give to my employees.
*No union. *We had open communication on salaries and how they were
given.

In the other management took what is more the normally perceived
action and attempted to dissuade the workers from organizing. *Of
course since they really can't prevent it they eventually develop

and since there's no penalty for firing workers engaged in
unionizing, that's what companies do.

Au contraire, mon ami. *There are heavy penalties for doing that. *Sa
y
what you wish about unions but don't bull****.

uh...no. what 'heavy penalties' are there?

In the company I was in, you are playing you bet your job.

answer: none. no penalty at all, regardless of what the right wing
says.

Who listens to the right wing?

the ONLY 'penalty' is that, after YEARS of expensive litigation, you
have to hire the person back and give them back pay.

wow. impressive.
--

chuckle what i've seen is that unionized companies are actually
healthier since unions act as a check on unlimited exec power.
*union
s
win benefits for both exempt and non-exempt employees.

While getting them screwed on other things.

ah. 'other things'. that's kind of like 'they say'...


non unionized companies screw their workers like they're $2 whores.

Some did.....most didn't. *Of course, the unions did everything they
could to convince employees that was true. *Looks like it worked with
you.

and you sucked down the management kool aid...you're just a bobble
head doll for management

Perhaps, but since I was there and you weren't........

and the right, with their deep, abiding disgust at the very
existence of the middle class, hates unions

So do most people who believe in individual accountability and pay
and promotions via merit rather than longevity.


fine. you go show me the data that companies actually hire and fire on
'merit'.

I was in one that did. Too bad you were a turkey in lieu of being an
eagle.

as deming said 'in god we trust, all others bring data'.

where's your data? so far all you've proven is that NON unionized
semiconductor houses are gone.




--
Sleep well tonight,

RD (The Sandman)

"Fear is the foundation of most governments."

President John Adams

In article , "RD (The
Sandman)" says...

wf3h wrote in
:

On Sep 28, 11:02*am, "RD (The Sandman)" rdsandman(spamlock)
@comcast.net wrote:
wf3h wrote in news:5fd30d3f-a0b3-4621-b9fc-
:

On Sep 26, 10:35*pm, Zombywoof wrote:

I've been an Exempt Employee all my adult life and have been at
two Companies while they went through the Unionization process. *

and i've worked for both unionized and non unionized companies.
unionized companies are healthier

So have I and, no, they aren't necessarily healthier.

not necessarily, but generally...




In one Management was absolutely more then happy to see their
workers unionize because it allowed them to dump a ****-load of
personnel programs that weren't required by law, and costing them
tons of money.
\\

things like vacations...won by union workers? you ready to give up
weekends and vacations?

I had an excellent vacation plan. *No union. *I had merit pay. *No
union. *

guess where 'vacations' came from. you think you'd have a vacation
without unions?

merit pay? why not read what w. edwards deming said about 'performance
reviews', etc....

I have.....have you?

I had mission pay when needed or was able to give to my employees.
*No union. *We had open communication on salaries and how they were
given.

In the other management took what is more the normally perceived
action and attempted to dissuade the workers from organizing. *Of
course since they really can't prevent it they eventually develop

and since there's no penalty for firing workers engaged in
unionizing, that's what companies do.

Au contraire, mon ami. *There are heavy penalties for doing that. *Sa
y
what you wish about unions but don't bull****.

uh...no. what 'heavy penalties' are there?

In the company I was in, you are playing you bet your job.

answer: none. no penalty at all, regardless of what the right wing
says.

Who listens to the right wing?

the ONLY 'penalty' is that, after YEARS of expensive litigation, you
have to hire the person back and give them back pay.

wow. impressive.
--

chuckle what i've seen is that unionized companies are actually
healthier since unions act as a check on unlimited exec power.
*union
s
win benefits for both exempt and non-exempt employees.

While getting them screwed on other things.

ah. 'other things'. that's kind of like 'they say'...


non unionized companies screw their workers like they're $2 whores.

Some did.....most didn't. *Of course, the unions did everything they
could to convince employees that was true. *Looks like it worked with
you.

and you sucked down the management kool aid...you're just a bobble
head doll for management

Perhaps, but since I was there and you weren't........

and the right, with their deep, abiding disgust at the very
existence of the middle class, hates unions

So do most people who believe in individual accountability and pay
and promotions via merit rather than longevity.


fine. you go show me the data that companies actually hire and fire on
'merit'.

I was in one that did. Too bad you were a turkey in lieu of being an
eagle.

I guess most of the "corporate giants on wall street do"... But the left
hate them for that...

as deming said 'in god we trust, all others bring data'.

where's your data? so far all you've proven is that NON unionized
semiconductor houses are gone.

On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:19:02 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

In article , "RD (The
Sandman)" says...

wf3h wrote in
:

On Sep 28, 11:02*am, "RD (The Sandman)" rdsandman(spamlock)
@comcast.net wrote:
wf3h wrote in news:5fd30d3f-a0b3-4621-b9fc-
:

On Sep 26, 10:35*pm, Zombywoof wrote:

I've been an Exempt Employee all my adult life and have been at
two Companies while they went through the Unionization process. *

and i've worked for both unionized and non unionized companies.
unionized companies are healthier

So have I and, no, they aren't necessarily healthier.

not necessarily, but generally...




In one Management was absolutely more then happy to see their
workers unionize because it allowed them to dump a ****-load of
personnel programs that weren't required by law, and costing them
tons of money.
\\

things like vacations...won by union workers? you ready to give up
weekends and vacations?

I had an excellent vacation plan. *No union. *I had merit pay. *No
union. *

guess where 'vacations' came from. you think you'd have a vacation
without unions?

merit pay? why not read what w. edwards deming said about 'performance
reviews', etc....

I have.....have you?

I had mission pay when needed or was able to give to my employees.
*No union. *We had open communication on salaries and how they were
given.

In the other management took what is more the normally perceived
action and attempted to dissuade the workers from organizing. *Of
course since they really can't prevent it they eventually develop

and since there's no penalty for firing workers engaged in
unionizing, that's what companies do.

Au contraire, mon ami. *There are heavy penalties for doing that. *Sa
y
what you wish about unions but don't bull****.

uh...no. what 'heavy penalties' are there?

In the company I was in, you are playing you bet your job.

answer: none. no penalty at all, regardless of what the right wing
says.

Who listens to the right wing?

the ONLY 'penalty' is that, after YEARS of expensive litigation, you
have to hire the person back and give them back pay.

wow. impressive.
--

chuckle what i've seen is that unionized companies are actually
healthier since unions act as a check on unlimited exec power.
*union
s
win benefits for both exempt and non-exempt employees.

While getting them screwed on other things.

ah. 'other things'. that's kind of like 'they say'...


non unionized companies screw their workers like they're $2 whores.

Some did.....most didn't. *Of course, the unions did everything they
could to convince employees that was true. *Looks like it worked with
you.

and you sucked down the management kool aid...you're just a bobble
head doll for management

Perhaps, but since I was there and you weren't........

and the right, with their deep, abiding disgust at the very
existence of the middle class, hates unions

So do most people who believe in individual accountability and pay
and promotions via merit rather than longevity.


fine. you go show me the data that companies actually hire and fire on
'merit'.

I was in one that did. Too bad you were a turkey in lieu of being an
eagle.

I guess most of the "corporate giants on wall street do"... But the left
hate them for that...

as deming said 'in god we trust, all others bring data'.

where's your data? so far all you've proven is that NON unionized
semiconductor houses are gone.



Crossposting will just get more of these folks over here.

But, I guess it doesn't make much of a damn anyway.
--

John H

On Sep 28, 4:46*pm, "RD (The Sandman)" rdsandman(spamlock)
@comcast.net wrote:
wf3h wrote :



merit pay? why not read what w. edwards deming said about 'performance
reviews', etc....

I have.....have you?

guess i didn't tell you i used to work for western electric.

and i'll let you scratch your head trying to figure out the
relationship...like the little right winger you are

uh...no. what 'heavy penalties' are there?

In the company I was in, you are playing you bet your job.

answer: none. no penalty at all, regardless of what the right wing
says.

Who listens to the right wing? *

ronald reagan, george bush, dick cheney...


non unionized companies screw their workers like they're $2 whores.

Some did.....most didn't. *Of course, the unions did everything they
could to convince employees that was true. *Looks like it worked with
you.

and you sucked down the management kool aid...you're just a bobble
head doll for management

Perhaps, *but since I was there and you weren't........

you weren't anywhere


I was in one that did. *Too *bad you were a turkey in lieu of being an
eagle.

you're more like a dodo...on the way to extinction. frank lutz was
interviewed today...he said the US worker has lost faith in his
company and doesn't feel like his company respects him

and he's a republican

wf3h wrote in
:

On Sep 28, 4:46*pm, "RD (The Sandman)" rdsandman(spamlock)
@comcast.net wrote:
wf3h wrote
innews:8534b41e-96ec-46af-baea-5c2ccc96
:



merit pay? why not read what w. edwards deming said about
'performance reviews', etc....

I have.....have you?

guess i didn't tell you i used to work for western electric.

As what......a lineman? Western Electric really turned out some crap in
the early days.

and i'll let you scratch your head trying to figure out the
relationship...like the little right winger you are

Your relationships are of no concern of mine.

uh...no. what 'heavy penalties' are there?

In the company I was in, you are playing you bet your job.

answer: none. no penalty at all, regardless of what the right wing
says.

Who listens to the right wing? *

ronald reagan, george bush, dick cheney...

It figures they would. Really stepping out on a limb, aren't you.

non unionized companies screw their workers like they're $2
whores.

Some did.....most didn't. *Of course, the unions did everything
they could to convince employees that was true. *Looks like it
worked wit
h
you.

and you sucked down the management kool aid...you're just a bobble
head doll for management

Perhaps, *but since I was there and you weren't........

you weren't anywhere

If it makes you feel better to think that.....go for it.

I was in one that did. *Too *bad you were a turkey in lieu of being a
n
eagle.

you're more like a dodo...on the way to extinction. frank lutz was
interviewed today...he said the US worker has lost faith in his
company and doesn't feel like his company respects him

and he's a republican

Lately, that is probably true. Too many companies lost respect for their
workers.



--
Sleep well tonight,

RD (The Sandman)

"Fear is the foundation of most governments."

President John Adams