"jps" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 05:54:46 -0700 (PDT), Toots Sweet
wrote:

I would suggest to you that Carter & Clinton did, and Obama will do,
more damage to American interests domestically and abroad than GWB
EVER did during his eight years in office.

By all means, don't let the facts or history cloud your fantasies.

By any objective measure, the Republicans have done more to undercut
and destroy the country in the last 30 years than Democrats will do
over the next 100.



So why don't you give us the list of items you used to claim your "objective
measures"...



The one thing I'll agree on is that Clinton was far too in love with
globalism. He hastened our demise buying into the Republican wet
dream of global corporatism.


It's "global corporatism", that is US corporations selling their products,
goods, and services, all over the planet that made the US so rich
It's universal ignorance, that makes idiots like you claim that it's a bad
thing.

On Sep 23, 7:43*am, "SaPeIsMa" wrote:
"jps" wrote in message

...

On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 05:54:46 -0700 (PDT), Toots Sweet
wrote:

I would suggest to you that Carter & Clinton did, and Obama will do,
more damage to American interests domestically and abroad than GWB
EVER did during his eight years in office.

By all means, don't let the facts or history cloud your fantasies.

By any objective measure, the Republicans have done more to undercut
and destroy the country in the last 30 years than Democrats will do
over the next 100.

So why don't you give us the list of items you used to claim your "objective
measures"...

the fact that under bush, the middle class had no increase in the
standard of living while the richest 1% saw their income triple, for
example...that the kind of data you need...and, will, of couse, ignore


The one thing I'll agree on is that Clinton was far too in love with
globalism. *He hastened our demise buying into the Republican wet
dream of global corporatism.

It's "global corporatism", that is US corporations selling their products,
goods, and services, all over the planet that made the US so rich

the US isn't rich. we're a debtor nation primarily because global
corporatism has exported jobs in a race to the bottom.

It's universal ignorance, that makes idiots like you claim that it's a bad
thing.

says the ostrich, congratulating himself on his view of the world.

"wf3h" wrote in message
...
On Sep 23, 7:43 am, "SaPeIsMa" wrote:
"jps" wrote in message

...

On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 05:54:46 -0700 (PDT), Toots Sweet
wrote:

I would suggest to you that Carter & Clinton did, and Obama will do,
more damage to American interests domestically and abroad than GWB
EVER did during his eight years in office.

By all means, don't let the facts or history cloud your fantasies.

By any objective measure, the Republicans have done more to undercut
and destroy the country in the last 30 years than Democrats will do
over the next 100.

So why don't you give us the list of items you used to claim your
"objective
measures"...
#
# the fact that under bush, the middle class had no increase in the
# standard of living while the richest 1% saw their income triple, for
# example...that the kind of data you need...and, will, of couse, ignore

1) that's not a list, dummy
2) Nor is it an objective measure, since you can NOT demonstrate
causality

The data does not need to be ignored, since the data does NOT support your
claim



The one thing I'll agree on is that Clinton was far too in love with
globalism. He hastened our demise buying into the Republican wet
dream of global corporatism.

It's "global corporatism", that is US corporations selling their products,
goods, and services, all over the planet that made the US so rich
#
# the US isn't rich. we're a debtor nation primarily because global
# corporatism has exported jobs in a race to the bottom.
#

1) The US is rich compared to the majority of the countries in the world
That's why we have so many people who want to migrate here, legally
or not
2) The reason that jobs are being exported is because
"liberal/progressive" laws, such as minimum wage, welfare, which increases
the cost of labor to the point where it's cheaper to move it elsewhere where
the costs are lower
Most of those policies are things the Democrat/liberal/progressive
like to brag about as their greatest achievements.
3) And most of the debt has been achieved with
Democratliberal/progressive policies of Wealth redistribution
All they have achieved is piling on debt to pay for non-productive
behavior.
#
# Way to go morons.
#

At least you labelled youselves right...
But why pat yourself on the back for you moronic policies that are
destroying the strength of this country


It's universal ignorance, that makes idiots like you claim that it's a bad
thing.
#
# says the ostrich, congratulating himself on his view of the world.
#

Nah !
I leave that kind of ignorant behavior to such as you
But thanks for playing
It's always fun to tease loons like you

On Sep 23, 12:00*pm, "SaPeIsMa" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message

So why don't you give us the list of items you used to claim your
"objective
measures"...

#
# the fact that under bush, the middle class had no increase in the
# standard of living while the richest 1% saw their income triple, for
# example...that the kind of data you need...and, will, of couse, ignore

1) * *that's not a list, dummy
2) * *Nor is it an objective measure, since you can NOT demonstrate
causality

now let me see...it's 'causality' that obama is a 'socialist' and
therefore everything he does is wrong

but it's NOT causality when the policies that bush followed destroyed
our economy and trashed the middle class

uh...OK....


The one thing I'll agree on is that Clinton was far too in love with
globalism. He hastened our demise buying into the Republican wet
dream of global corporatism.

It's "global corporatism", that is US corporations selling their products,
goods, and services, all over the planet that made the US so rich

#
# the US isn't rich. we're a debtor nation primarily because global
# corporatism has exported jobs in a race to the bottom.
#

1) * *The US is rich compared to the majority of the countries in the world
* * * * That's why we have so many people who want to migrate here, legally

uh...no. over 100,000 indians and chinese are headed back to their
respective countries due to our collapsing economy. in fact, americans
are headed to china to find jobs, as the washington post reported the
other day.


or not
2) * *The reason that jobs are being exported is because
"liberal/progressive" laws, such as minimum wage, welfare, which increases
the cost of labor to the point where it's cheaper to move it elsewhere where
the costs are lower

uh...no. the reason jobs are being exported is that america is owned
by folks like bush who believe that capital gains are the most
important measure of humanity. none of the policies you
cite...minimum wage (which hadnt gone up in 20 years), or welfare, has
ANY effect on our economy at all. what DOES have an effect is the
policies that allow america's companies to find places where there are
no unions, no worker protection, no minimum wage, nothing to protect
people at all

and that is, in fact, the right view view of america: destroy the
middle class and make us like a 3rd world country.

* * * * Most of those policies are things the Democrat/liberal/progressive
like to brag about as their greatest achievements.
3) * *And most of the debt has been achieved with
Democratliberal/progressive policies of Wealth redistribution

fairy tales are the staple of the right wing. there hasnt been a
'liberal' govt in the US since the mid 60's and johnson's 'great
society'. right wingers fail to note that the middle class suffered
the most under reagan, and the 2 bushes.

so tell us again how allowing wall street to continue its greed will
save the middle class...that seems to be all you right wingers have to
offer.

wf3h wrote:
On Sep 23, 12:00 pm, "SaPeIsMa" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message

So why don't you give us the list of items you used to claim your
"objective
measures"...
#
# the fact that under bush, the middle class had no increase in the
# standard of living while the richest 1% saw their income triple, for
# example...that the kind of data you need...and, will, of couse, ignore

1) that's not a list, dummy
2) Nor is it an objective measure, since you can NOT demonstrate
causality

now let me see...it's 'causality' that obama is a 'socialist' and
therefore everything he does is wrong

No, no one has said that's "causality". You just trotted out a shabby
****ty straw man.


but it's NOT causality when the policies that bush followed destroyed
our economy and trashed the middle class

You can't show that any of his policies did any of that. *THAT'S* the
lack of causality, dumb ****.


The one thing I'll agree on is that Clinton was far too in love with
globalism. He hastened our demise buying into the Republican wet
dream of global corporatism.
It's "global corporatism", that is US corporations selling their products,
goods, and services, all over the planet that made the US so rich
#
# the US isn't rich. we're a debtor nation

Being in debt doesn't mean one isn't rich.


# primarily because global corporatism

"global corporatism" = meaningless leftist swearing


# has exported jobs in a race to the bottom.

1) The US is rich compared to the majority of the countries in the world
That's why we have so many people who want to migrate here, legally

uh...no. over 100,000 indians and chinese are headed back to their
respective countries due to our collapsing economy.

That's probably false. I'm certainly not going to tend to believe it
without some documentation of it. I think you made that up.



or not
2) The reason that jobs are being exported is because
"liberal/progressive" laws, such as minimum wage, welfare, which increases
the cost of labor to the point where it's cheaper to move it elsewhere where
the costs are lower

uh...no.

UHHHHHHH - yes, in part.


the reason jobs are being exported is that america is owned
by folks like bush who believe that capital gains are the most
important measure of humanity. [snip ignorant bull****]

No.



Most of those policies are things the Democrat/liberal/progressive
like to brag about as their greatest achievements.

That's *exactly* right. Leftists/"liberals"/progress-killing
"progressives" absolutely *brag* about the things they enact that kill
jobs. They're just too stupid to realize that they *DO* destroy jobs.


3) And most of the debt has been achieved with
Democratliberal/progressive policies of Wealth redistribution

fairy tales

It is the left that believes in them. This is not in rational dispute.

On Sep 23, 12:24*pm, Wilson Woods wrote:
wf3h wrote:

now let me see...it's 'causality' that obama is a 'socialist' and
therefore everything he does is wrong

No, no one has said that's "causality".

except you, of course, with your delusions of a 'socialist'
president...just because he's black


but it's NOT causality when the policies that bush followed destroyed
our economy and trashed the middle class

You can't show that any of his policies did any of that. **THAT'S* the
lack of causality, dumb ****.

really? cutting capital gains and causing the wall street debacle did
nothing to our economy?

i guess i was right all along: right wingers don't follow the news.
first this idiot thinks obama was president for 8 years and now he's
saying wall street had no role in destroying our economy



The one thing I'll agree on is that Clinton was far too in love with
globalism. He hastened our demise buying into the Republican wet
dream of global corporatism.
It's "global corporatism", that is US corporations selling their products,
goods, and services, all over the planet that made the US so rich
#
# the US isn't rich. we're a debtor nation

Being in debt doesn't mean one isn't rich.

ROFLMAO!!! so to you the richest guy in the world is one who's
bankrupt??!!!

no wonder you right wingers don't think we have an economic crisis!


# primarily because global corporatism

"global corporatism" = meaningless leftist swearing

uh...YOU used the term 'global corporatism'...

oh. you don't read what you write....


# has exported jobs in a race to the bottom.

1) * *The US is rich compared to the majority of the countries in the world
* * * * That's why we have so many people who want to migrate here, legally

uh...no. over 100,000 indians and chinese are headed back to their
respective countries due to our collapsing economy.

That's probably false. *I'm certainly not going to tend to believe it
without some documentation of it. *I think you made that up.

really? you idiot right wingers really just believe the bull**** fairy
tales you tell yourselves, don't you:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...ain-drain.html

"What was a trickle has become a flood," says Duke University's Vivek
Wadhwa, who studies reverse immigration. Wadhwa projects that in the
next five years, 100,000 immigrants will go back to India and 100,000
to China, countries that have had rapid economic growth. "For the
first time in American history, we are experiencing the brain drain
that other countries experienced," he says.

yeah. go ahead and tell me about how you wonderful right wingers, with
your free market fundamentalism, have created so many opportunities...


* * * * Most of those policies are things the Democrat/liberal/progressive
like to brag about as their greatest achievements.

That's *exactly* right. *Leftists/"liberals"/progress-killing
"progressives" absolutely *brag* about the things they enact that kill
jobs. *They're just too stupid to realize that they *DO* destroy jobs.

meaningless rush limbaugh boilerplate.

wf3h wrote:
On Sep 23, 12:24 pm, Wilson Woods wrote:
wf3h wrote:
now let me see...it's 'causality' that obama is a 'socialist' and
therefore everything he does is wrong
No, no one has said that's "causality".

except you, of course,

Except no one.


president...just because he's black

There's your racism again...



but it's NOT causality when the policies that bush followed destroyed
our economy and trashed the middle class
You can't show that any of his policies did any of that. *THAT'S* the
lack of causality, dumb ****.

really? cutting capital gains and causing the wall street

Cutting capital gains tax caused no debacle


The one thing I'll agree on is that Clinton was far too in love with
globalism. He hastened our demise buying into the Republican wet
dream of global corporatism.
It's "global corporatism", that is US corporations selling their products,
goods, and services, all over the planet that made the US so rich
#
# the US isn't rich. we're a debtor nation
Being in debt doesn't mean one isn't rich.

ROFLMAO!!! so to you the richest guy in the world is one who's
bankrupt??!!!

Being in debt does not mean bankruptcy.


# primarily because global corporatism
"global corporatism" = meaningless leftist swearing

uh...YOU used the term 'global corporatism'...

I didn't.


# has exported jobs in a race to the bottom.
1) The US is rich compared to the majority of the countries in the world
That's why we have so many people who want to migrate here, legally
uh...no. over 100,000 indians and chinese are headed back to their
respective countries due to our collapsing economy.
That's probably false. I'm certainly not going to tend to believe it
without some documentation of it. I think you made that up.

really?

Until you posted something, yes.


http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...ain-drain.html

"What was a trickle has become a flood," says Duke University's Vivek
Wadhwa, who studies reverse immigration. Wadhwa projects that in the
next five years, 100,000 immigrants will go back to India and 100,000
to China, countries that have had rapid economic growth.

That is a *projection*, you cocksucker, and it's over five years. It
may or may not come to pass. In any event, those workers returning to
their home countries is not necessarily an indication that there's
anything "wrong" with the US economy. If their economies had been
healthy enough in the first place, they never would have come here.
Growth in their economies relative to ours is to be expected.


Most of those policies are things the Democrat/liberal/progressive
like to brag about as their greatest achievements.
That's *exactly* right. Leftists/"liberals"/progress-killing
"progressives" absolutely *brag* about the things they enact that kill
jobs. They're just too stupid to realize that they *DO* destroy jobs.

meaningless

No, factual.

"wf3h" wrote in message
...
On Sep 23, 12:24 pm, Wilson Woods wrote:
wf3h wrote:

now let me see...it's 'causality' that obama is a 'socialist' and
therefore everything he does is wrong

No, no one has said that's "causality".
#
# except you, of course, with your delusions of a 'socialist'
# president...just because he's black

More delusional projection
This idiot is on a loop
It always comes back to the same stupid nonsense about racism




but it's NOT causality when the policies that bush followed destroyed
our economy and trashed the middle class

You can't show that any of his policies did any of that. *THAT'S* the
lack of causality, dumb ****.
#
# really? cutting capital gains and causing the wall street debacle did
# nothing to our economy?

The 2 are not related, dummy
But hey, don't let us get in the way of your ignorance about corelation and
causality

#
# i guess i was right all along: right wingers don't follow the news.
# first this idiot thinks obama was president for 8 years and now he's
# saying wall street had no role in destroying our economy

The only thing you got right was that part that you were "guessing"
Everyting else is wrong
At least you're consistent



The one thing I'll agree on is that Clinton was far too in love with
globalism. He hastened our demise buying into the Republican wet
dream of global corporatism.
It's "global corporatism", that is US corporations selling their
products,
goods, and services, all over the planet that made the US so rich
#
# the US isn't rich. we're a debtor nation

Being in debt doesn't mean one isn't rich.

ROFLMAO!!! so to you the richest guy in the world is one who's
bankrupt??!!!

no wonder you right wingers don't think we have an economic crisis!


# primarily because global corporatism

"global corporatism" = meaningless leftist swearing

uh...YOU used the term 'global corporatism'...

oh. you don't read what you write....


# has exported jobs in a race to the bottom.

1) The US is rich compared to the majority of the countries in the
world
That's why we have so many people who want to migrate here, legally

uh...no. over 100,000 indians and chinese are headed back to their
respective countries due to our collapsing economy.

That's probably false. I'm certainly not going to tend to believe it
without some documentation of it. I think you made that up.

really? you idiot right wingers really just believe the bull**** fairy
tales you tell yourselves, don't you:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...ain-drain.html

"What was a trickle has become a flood," says Duke University's Vivek
Wadhwa, who studies reverse immigration. Wadhwa projects that in the
next five years, 100,000 immigrants will go back to India and 100,000
to China, countries that have had rapid economic growth. "For the
first time in American history, we are experiencing the brain drain
that other countries experienced," he says.

yeah. go ahead and tell me about how you wonderful right wingers, with
your free market fundamentalism, have created so many opportunities...


Most of those policies are things the Democrat/liberal/progressive
like to brag about as their greatest achievements.

That's *exactly* right. Leftists/"liberals"/progress-killing
"progressives" absolutely *brag* about the things they enact that kill
jobs. They're just too stupid to realize that they *DO* destroy jobs.

meaningless rush limbaugh boilerplate.

"wf3h" wrote in message
...
On Sep 23, 12:00 pm, "SaPeIsMa" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message

So why don't you give us the list of items you used to claim your
"objective
measures"...

#
# the fact that under bush, the middle class had no increase in the
# standard of living while the richest 1% saw their income triple, for
# example...that the kind of data you need...and, will, of couse, ignore

1) that's not a list, dummy
2) Nor is it an objective measure, since you can NOT demonstrate
causality
#
# now let me see...it's 'causality' that obama is a 'socialist' and
# therefore everything he does is wrong

Apparently true in your universe of ignorance, prejudice and bigotry
Not true in my world of reasoned thought.

#
# but it's NOT causality when the policies that bush followed destroyed
# our economy and trashed the middle class
#
# uh...OK....


See above
Start by learning the meaning of the word "causality" and it's difference
from "corelation"
They are not the same words, nor do they have the same meaning.





The one thing I'll agree on is that Clinton was far too in love with
globalism. He hastened our demise buying into the Republican wet
dream of global corporatism.

It's "global corporatism", that is US corporations selling their
products,
goods, and services, all over the planet that made the US so rich

#
# the US isn't rich. we're a debtor nation primarily because global
# corporatism has exported jobs in a race to the bottom.
#

1) The US is rich compared to the majority of the countries in the world
That's why we have so many people who want to migrate here, legally
#
# uh...no. over 100,000 indians and chinese are headed back to their
# respective countries due to our collapsing economy. in fact, americans
# are headed to china to find jobs, as the washington post reported the
# other day.

And ?
Recessions occur
Apparently, in your world a recession is a sign of abject poverty
Why don't you go in the meantime and look up the figures for legal and
illegal immigrants to the US
Compare them to the rates of immigration occurring in other countries.



or not
2) The reason that jobs are being exported is because
"liberal/progressive" laws, such as minimum wage, welfare, which increases
the cost of labor to the point where it's cheaper to move it elsewhere
where
the costs are lower
#
# uh...no. the reason jobs are being exported is that america is owned
# by folks like bush who believe that capital gains are the most
# important measure of humanity.

Do you specialise in stupid projections
Or did you learn how to do it in school ?


# none of the policies you
# cite...minimum wage (which hadnt gone up in 20 years), or welfare, has
# ANY effect on our economy at all. what DOES have an effect is the
# policies that allow america's companies to find places where there are
# no unions, no worker protection, no minimum wage, nothing to protect
# people at all

Which once again goes to show that you're an ignorant parrot
If you think that welfare, which has been expanding has NO Effect on the
economy, then you are a bigger idiot than you've shown yourself to be so far
Only an idiot would believe that an economy where an ever-growing number of
people are sucking on the public tit, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME, an
ever-DECREASING number of people are paying for it.

#
# and that is, in fact, the right view view of america: destroy the
# middle class and make us like a 3rd world country.

Too bad that history shows that it's socialism in all it's various forms
that effectively destroys the middle class
But then, since you're an ignorant idiot just spouting cant that you
have memorized with no comprenhension, it's no surprise that you don't know
what you're spouting



Most of those policies are things the Democrat/liberal/progressive
like to brag about as their greatest achievements.
3) And most of the debt has been achieved with
Democratliberal/progressive policies of Wealth redistribution
#
# fairy tales are the staple of the right wing. there hasnt been a
# 'liberal' govt in the US since the mid 60's and johnson's 'great
# society'. right wingers fail to note that the middle class suffered
# the most under reagan, and the 2 bushes.

The slsow destruction of the middle class started long before the Great
Society
Go back all the way to FDR.

The middle class is the productive and innovative part of any society
When you tax them to the bone, to pay for "social services" you effectively
destroy their ability to produce and enrich themselves and the rest of
society
And it's socialism and the creation of an indigent lower class through
welfare programs that is the primary cause of the destruction of the middle
class.

#
# so tell us again how allowing wall street to continue its greed will
# save the middle class...that seems to be all you right wingers have to
# offer.

Wall street is where the middle-class invest their savings to grow the
economy
By destroying wall street, the socialist also destroy the means for the
middle class to make their savings grow.
Which effectively destroys the middle class.

But hey, don't let me stop you from projecting your ignorant cant