wrote in message
...
Ok. So, what do you propose? Should we allow the Iraqi gov't to stand on
its
own two feet or should be help if necessary? Do we really want that place
to
descend into chaos?


It will descend into some degree of chaos, no matter what we do.
There is no way to get out without getting out. Southeast Asia was
chaos for a few years after we left but now it is pretty much what our
government always wanted it to be, a trading partner and a market for
our cigarettes and beer.

It's unclear that this is true. We've pulled back quite a bit, and the
violence has increased, but it's not out of control. I think it's too early
to just leave at this point. We'll likely have a role in the region there
for a long time.

By the gov't's own reporting, we tortured prisoners. Some even died. At
least several were so mentally damaged that they can't stand trial. It's
pretty well documented. Heck, even Darth Vader (aka Dick Cheney) admitted
to
knowing about it and agreeing with its use.

The problem is the definition of torture and that seems to be changing
by the day.

Huh? Torture has been pretty well-defined since the Spanish Inquisition. We
signed a treaty not to do it, we've prosecuted our own soldiers in the past
for it, we've put others on trial as well. It's quite clearly defined. We
should not be in that business. The situation needs to be fully investigated
and those responsible need to be held accountable.

I haven't had a problem either but I don't profile as a drug dealer I
suppose. In real life neither of us know if our phone was tapped.
I have been picked up and shaken on the highway and I went along with
an illegal search because I had places to be and I just wanted to get
out of there.

These days, it probably is on some level being "tapped," although not
specifically for anyone here.

Picked up? Physically? I've been stopped before and asked if they could
search the car. I said no, politely of course. My kids were asleep. They
didn't like it much, but they let us go. Of course, I didn't look like much
of a threat with two sleeping in the car. They didn't give me a ticket even
though I was "speeding."

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Nom=de=Plume