There has long been a debate over the intelligence level of lesser
beings with many scientists espousing the idea that such beings are
only capable of mimicry or instinct with no real reasoning ability.
They have maintained that reasoning is the sole province of humanity.
However, anybody with a dog will realize their pet is capable of some
sort of reasoning and intelligence. My dog does a remarkable amount
of reasoning in escaping from the back yard no matter how hard I try
to keep her in. Likewise, my cats really know the sound of the can
opener means something and that if they shove all the books off the
coffee table it will get them attention and pets.
The case of the liberal is less problematic as no amount of experiment
has ever shown any repeatable ability to reason, Yes, there are
anecdotes concerning them but whenever they have been investigated it
has turned out to be simply mimicry of humans or simply luck.
Experiments within "rec.boats" has consistently failed to reveal
anything resembling reasoning and even the mimicry is poor.
Consequently, we must conclude that their development lies somewhere
between a kumquat and a sea cucumber with the sea cucumber probably
the more intelligent.
Dogs make good companions and cats are least cute but the reason for
the existence of liberals is problematic. Not only are they parasitic
on humanity, almost all of them are simply ugly.
Advocates of "Intelligent Design" sometimes maintain that Liberals
were placed here to serve as a source of organ transplants for humans
but as a scientist I cannot address any ideas on the subject of ID but
have to look for an explanation within the natural world. It is my
position that liberals evolved to serve as examples of how NOT to
behave for intelligent humans. Thus they do serve a purpose. A
society without liberals would tend to more easily make the mistakes
that liberals espouse but the existence of liberals easily shows that
such ideas are mostly nonsense causing us to return to reason.

Frogwatch wrote:
There has long been a debate over the intelligence level of lesser
beings with many scientists espousing the idea that such beings are
only capable of mimicry or instinct with no real reasoning ability.
They have maintained that reasoning is the sole province of humanity.
However, anybody with a dog will realize their pet is capable of some
sort of reasoning and intelligence. My dog does a remarkable amount
of reasoning in escaping from the back yard no matter how hard I try
to keep her in. Likewise, my cats really know the sound of the can
opener means something and that if they shove all the books off the
coffee table it will get them attention and pets.
The case of the liberal is less problematic as no amount of experiment
has ever shown any repeatable ability to reason, Yes, there are
anecdotes concerning them but whenever they have been investigated it
has turned out to be simply mimicry of humans or simply luck.
Experiments within "rec.boats" has consistently failed to reveal
anything resembling reasoning and even the mimicry is poor.
Consequently, we must conclude that their development lies somewhere
between a kumquat and a sea cucumber with the sea cucumber probably
the more intelligent.
Dogs make good companions and cats are least cute but the reason for
the existence of liberals is problematic. Not only are they parasitic
on humanity, almost all of them are simply ugly.
Advocates of "Intelligent Design" sometimes maintain that Liberals
were placed here to serve as a source of organ transplants for humans
but as a scientist I cannot address any ideas on the subject of ID but
have to look for an explanation within the natural world. It is my
position that liberals evolved to serve as examples of how NOT to
behave for intelligent humans. Thus they do serve a purpose. A
society without liberals would tend to more easily make the mistakes
that liberals espouse but the existence of liberals easily shows that
such ideas are mostly nonsense causing us to return to reason.


And you think I should take you seriously?

--
Whatever moral rules you have proposed, abide by them as they were laws,
and as if you would be guilty of impiety by violating any of them,
*unless* you are a conservative Republican office holder or minister. If
that is your position in life, then anything goes.

On Jul 30, 6:13*pm, H the K wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
There has long been a debate over the intelligence level of lesser
beings with many scientists espousing the idea that such beings are
only capable of mimicry or instinct with no real reasoning ability.
They have maintained that reasoning is the sole province of humanity.
However, anybody with a dog will realize their pet is capable of some
sort of reasoning and intelligence. *My dog does a remarkable amount
of reasoning in escaping from the back yard no matter how hard I try
to keep her in. *Likewise, my cats really know the sound of the can
opener means something and that if they shove all the books off the
coffee table it will get them attention and pets.
The case of the liberal is less problematic as no amount of experiment
has ever shown any repeatable ability to reason, Yes, there are
anecdotes concerning them but whenever they have been investigated it
has turned out to be simply mimicry of humans or simply luck.
Experiments within "rec.boats" has consistently failed to reveal
anything resembling reasoning and even the mimicry is poor.
Consequently, we must conclude that their development lies somewhere
between a kumquat and a sea cucumber with the sea cucumber probably
the more intelligent.
Dogs make good companions and cats are least cute but the reason for
the existence of liberals is problematic. *Not only are they parasitic
on humanity, almost all of them are simply ugly.
Advocates of "Intelligent Design" sometimes maintain that Liberals
were placed here to serve as a source of organ transplants for humans
but as a scientist I cannot address any ideas on the subject of ID but
have to look for an explanation within the natural world. It is my
position that liberals evolved to serve as examples of how NOT to
behave for intelligent humans. *Thus they do serve a purpose. *A
society without liberals would tend to more easily make the mistakes
that liberals espouse but the existence of liberals easily shows that
such ideas are mostly nonsense causing us to return to reason.

And you think I should take you seriously?

--
Whatever moral rules you have proposed, abide by them as they were laws,
and as if you would be guilty of impiety by violating any of them,
*unless* you are a conservative Republican office holder or minister. If
that is your position in life, then anything goes.

Herr Krause. You took him seriously to make a reply to his post, eh?

On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:59:36 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

However, anybody with a dog will realize their pet is capable of some
sort of reasoning and intelligence.

I wouldn't say some sort - I would say that dogs are fully capable of
reasoning and even the average dog has innate intelligence.

When these discussions come up, I always point to my buddy Duke Doggee
Dog who was a blind Border Collie. He had a vocabulary of 350 plus
words, he understood complex sentences and even offer an opinion from
time-to-time. :)

Proof of the pudding that dogs can reason and even rationalize was
Duke and one other dog I had in the service - a Belgian Shepard named
Major. Duke was blind, but I didn't know it until he was five - I
happened to notice calcium deposits in his eyes and took him to the
top veterinary opthamologist at Tufts Vet School who tested him and
calmly asked me if I knew he was blind. :)

Major could even read body language, had a similar vocabulary to Duke
and had an uncanny ability to work off leash to a complex set of hand
commands.

Even average dogs have 200+ word vocabularies - it's just a difference
in levels of intelligence.

Just like in humans.

On Jul 30, 8:27*pm, Wizard of Woodstock wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:59:36 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch

wrote:
However, anybody with a dog will realize their pet is capable of some
sort of reasoning and intelligence.

I wouldn't say some sort - I would say that dogs are fully capable of
reasoning and even the average dog has innate intelligence.

When these discussions come up, I always point to my buddy Duke Doggee
Dog who was a blind Border Collie. *He had a vocabulary of 350 plus
words, he understood complex sentences and even offer an opinion from
time-to-time. *:)

Proof of the pudding that dogs can reason and even rationalize was
Duke and one other dog I had in the service - a Belgian Shepard named
Major. *Duke was blind, but I didn't know it until he was five - I
happened to notice calcium deposits in his eyes and took him to the
top veterinary opthamologist at Tufts Vet School who tested him and
calmly asked me if I knew he was blind. :)

Major could even read body language, had a similar vocabulary to Duke
and had an uncanny ability to work off leash to a complex set of hand
commands.

Even average dogs have 200+ word vocabularies - it's just a difference
in levels of intelligence.

Just like in humans.

Until recently I was not a "dog person" and much preferred cats.
However, my son has a dog that amazes me with its intelligence and
determination. She has a great personality and loves going places in
the truck. The expressions on her face are crystal clear to me. I
have never had this kind of experience with a dog before.
Unfortunately, she hates boats and got seasick on her one sailing
excursion and runs whenever we try to take her.
Unfortunately, she is a true escape artist. Yesterday, we found her
walking along the top of a 2X4 for about 20' to get out of the fenced
back yard (She is about the size of a large lab), amazing.

On Jul 30, 8:27*pm, Wizard of Woodstock wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:59:36 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch

wrote:
However, anybody with a dog will realize their pet is capable of some
sort of reasoning and intelligence.

I wouldn't say some sort - I would say that dogs are fully capable of
reasoning and even the average dog has innate intelligence.

When these discussions come up, I always point to my buddy Duke Doggee
Dog who was a blind Border Collie. *He had a vocabulary of 350 plus
words, he understood complex sentences and even offer an opinion from
time-to-time. *:)

Proof of the pudding that dogs can reason and even rationalize was
Duke and one other dog I had in the service - a Belgian Shepard named
Major. *Duke was blind, but I didn't know it until he was five - I
happened to notice calcium deposits in his eyes and took him to the
top veterinary opthamologist at Tufts Vet School who tested him and
calmly asked me if I knew he was blind. :)

Major could even read body language, had a similar vocabulary to Duke
and had an uncanny ability to work off leash to a complex set of hand
commands.

Even average dogs have 200+ word vocabularies - it's just a difference
in levels of intelligence.

Just like in humans.

Should I worry that someone who is unable to reason might not take me
seriously?........Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

"Wizard of Woodstock" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:59:36 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

However, anybody with a dog will realize their pet is capable of some
sort of reasoning and intelligence.

I wouldn't say some sort - I would say that dogs are fully capable of
reasoning and even the average dog has innate intelligence.

When these discussions come up, I always point to my buddy Duke Doggee
Dog who was a blind Border Collie. He had a vocabulary of 350 plus
words, he understood complex sentences and even offer an opinion from
time-to-time. :)

Proof of the pudding that dogs can reason and even rationalize was
Duke and one other dog I had in the service - a Belgian Shepard named
Major. Duke was blind, but I didn't know it until he was five - I
happened to notice calcium deposits in his eyes and took him to the
top veterinary opthamologist at Tufts Vet School who tested him and
calmly asked me if I knew he was blind. :)

Major could even read body language, had a similar vocabulary to Duke
and had an uncanny ability to work off leash to a complex set of hand
commands.

Even average dogs have 200+ word vocabularies - it's just a difference
in levels of intelligence.

Just like in humans.

I have a 7 year old German Shephard Dog, and I PROMISE you he is more
intelligent than some in this group.

Seriously though, I talk to him in sentances, not commands. He understands
just fine. I just wish he could talk.

--Mike

On Jul 30, 11:32*pm, "mgg" wrote:
"Wizard of Woodstock" wrote in messagenews:lcd475d20h8bh7bom2tcle1rau5qajpi9q@4ax .com...



On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:59:36 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

However, anybody with a dog will realize their pet is capable of some
sort of reasoning and intelligence.

I wouldn't say some sort - I would say that dogs are fully capable of
reasoning and even the average dog has innate intelligence.

When these discussions come up, I always point to my buddy Duke Doggee
Dog who was a blind Border Collie. *He had a vocabulary of 350 plus
words, he understood complex sentences and even offer an opinion from
time-to-time. *:)

Proof of the pudding that dogs can reason and even rationalize was
Duke and one other dog I had in the service - a Belgian Shepard named
Major. *Duke was blind, but I didn't know it until he was five - I
happened to notice calcium deposits in his eyes and took him to the
top veterinary opthamologist at Tufts Vet School who tested him and
calmly asked me if I knew he was blind. :)

Major could even read body language, had a similar vocabulary to Duke
and had an uncanny ability to work off leash to a complex set of hand
commands.

Even average dogs have 200+ word vocabularies - it's just a difference
in levels of intelligence.

Just like in humans.

I have a 7 year old German Shephard Dog, and I PROMISE you he is more
intelligent than some in this group.

Seriously though, I talk to him in sentances, not commands. He understands
just fine. I just wish he could talk.

--Mike

I think I have always underappreciated dogs, too bad they stink.
Sometimes my son's dog amazes me with how smart she is, then she goes
in and eats cat poop outa the litter box.

On Jul 30, 11:48*pm, Frogwatch wrote:
On Jul 30, 11:32*pm, "mgg" wrote:



"Wizard of Woodstock" wrote in messagenews:lcd475d20h8bh7bom2tcle1rau5qajpi9q@4ax .com...

On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:59:36 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

However, anybody with a dog will realize their pet is capable of some
sort of reasoning and intelligence.

I wouldn't say some sort - I would say that dogs are fully capable of
reasoning and even the average dog has innate intelligence.

When these discussions come up, I always point to my buddy Duke Doggee
Dog who was a blind Border Collie. *He had a vocabulary of 350 plus
words, he understood complex sentences and even offer an opinion from
time-to-time. *:)

Proof of the pudding that dogs can reason and even rationalize was
Duke and one other dog I had in the service - a Belgian Shepard named
Major. *Duke was blind, but I didn't know it until he was five - I
happened to notice calcium deposits in his eyes and took him to the
top veterinary opthamologist at Tufts Vet School who tested him and
calmly asked me if I knew he was blind. :)

Major could even read body language, had a similar vocabulary to Duke
and had an uncanny ability to work off leash to a complex set of hand
commands.

Even average dogs have 200+ word vocabularies - it's just a difference
in levels of intelligence.

Just like in humans.

I have a 7 year old German Shephard Dog, and I PROMISE you he is more
intelligent than some in this group.

Seriously though, I talk to him in sentances, not commands. He understands
just fine. I just wish he could talk.

--Mike

I think I have always underappreciated dogs, too bad they stink.
Sometimes my son's dog amazes me with how smart she is, then she goes
in and eats cat poop outa the litter box.

I think animals communicate a lot with each other but not in the way
we communicate. We do it mostly verbally and do not see all the cues
they see. My impression is that a dog can get volumes of info from
the look on our faces and posture and even the way we smell. I think
they can even communicate interspecies like cat-dog and vice versa but
we simply do not see it because evolution has programmed us to be
verbal. Dogs are probably baffled by our inability to communicate.

On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:32:03 -0700, "mgg" wrote:


"Wizard of Woodstock" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:59:36 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

However, anybody with a dog will realize their pet is capable of some
sort of reasoning and intelligence.

I wouldn't say some sort - I would say that dogs are fully capable of
reasoning and even the average dog has innate intelligence.

When these discussions come up, I always point to my buddy Duke Doggee
Dog who was a blind Border Collie. He had a vocabulary of 350 plus
words, he understood complex sentences and even offer an opinion from
time-to-time. :)

Proof of the pudding that dogs can reason and even rationalize was
Duke and one other dog I had in the service - a Belgian Shepard named
Major. Duke was blind, but I didn't know it until he was five - I
happened to notice calcium deposits in his eyes and took him to the
top veterinary opthamologist at Tufts Vet School who tested him and
calmly asked me if I knew he was blind. :)

Major could even read body language, had a similar vocabulary to Duke
and had an uncanny ability to work off leash to a complex set of hand
commands.

Even average dogs have 200+ word vocabularies - it's just a difference
in levels of intelligence.

Just like in humans.

I have a 7 year old German Shephard Dog, and I PROMISE you he is more
intelligent than some in this group.

Seriously though, I talk to him in sentances, not commands. He understands
just fine. I just wish he could talk.

He does - you just don't understand what he's saying. :)

Duke was simply amazing at that - he had about eleven distinct
"sounds" and sometimes could link them together to make a "sentence".
I knew exactly what he was "saying" - others just heard noise.

Same with Major, but you have to understand that both of those dogs
were with me 24/7/365 - I knew the dogs behaviors as well as they knew
mine.