On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 00:10:37 -0400, "J" wrote:

Richard Wagner was a musical genius who deserves to have his art played for
generations to come. Hitler's love of Wagner's music only shows that despite
his twisted politics, he had exquisite taste.









http://www.sgvtribune.com/weirdnews/...6?source=email





County officials today will weigh in on whether the LA Opera should hold a
festival honoring the music of Richard Wagner, an anti-Semitic 19th-century
composer.

The opera company is scheduled to perform Wagner's "Ring" cycle opera over
several months, starting in April 2010. It will also feature lectures and
other events tied the composer.

But county Supervisor Michael Antonovich, who represents parts of the San
Gabriel Valley, has introduced a motion calling on the Board of Supervisors
to oppose the opera company's plans to feature Wagner's work so prominently.

Some have charged that his music, which was admired by Adolf Hitler,
represents a Nazi ideology and should not be performed. But representatives
of the opera company say Antonovich is attempting censorship.

The board lacks the power to regulate what music the opera company can
perform: Today's motion, if approved, would result in a letter from the
board to the opera company asking it to lessen its focus on Wagner by
including works by other composers and offering lectures focusing on
Wagner's openly anti-Semitic views.

The arrogance of some Jews is amazing.

Martin

wrote in message
news
On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 00:10:37 -0400, "J" wrote:

Richard Wagner was a musical genius who deserves to have his art played
for
generations to come. Hitler's love of Wagner's music only shows that
despite
his twisted politics, he had exquisite taste.

SNIP
The arrogance of some Jews is amazing.

Martin

And the 'insensitivity' of some non-Jews are also amazing.

On Jul 26, 6:56*am, "Sanity" wrote:
wrote in message
The arrogance of some Jews is amazing.

And the 'insensitivity' of some non-Jews are also amazing.

Actually, the German nation did NOT start the Kulturkampf, they were
*invaded*
by foreign refugees who challenged their music, literature, art and
*politics*.

However, the article referenced at http://www.sgvtribune.com/
weirdnews/ci_12878096?source=email
does show a more balanced viewpoint.

Supervisor Antonovich was originally calling for balance and there
were some well-
thought out responses to Dan Abendschein's article.

wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 00:10:37 -0400, "J" wrote:

Richard Wagner was a musical genius who deserves to have his art
played for generations to come. Hitler's love of Wagner's music only
shows that despite his twisted politics, he had exquisite taste.









http://www.sgvtribune.com/weirdnews/...6?source=email





County officials today will weigh in on whether the LA Opera should
hold a festival honoring the music of Richard Wagner, an
anti-Semitic 19th-century composer.

The opera company is scheduled to perform Wagner's "Ring" cycle
opera over several months, starting in April 2010. It will also
feature lectures and other events tied the composer.

But county Supervisor Michael Antonovich, who represents parts of
the San Gabriel Valley, has introduced a motion calling on the Board
of Supervisors to oppose the opera company's plans to feature
Wagner's work so prominently.

Some have charged that his music, which was admired by Adolf Hitler,
represents a Nazi ideology and should not be performed. But
representatives of the opera company say Antonovich is attempting
censorship.

The board lacks the power to regulate what music the opera company
can perform: Today's motion, if approved, would result in a letter
from the board to the opera company asking it to lessen its focus on
Wagner by including works by other composers and offering lectures
focusing on Wagner's openly anti-Semitic views.

The arrogance of some Jews is amazing.

Especially those Lutheran ones like the guy who introducted the motion.

On Jul 26, 10:30*am, "Jeff Mayner" wrote:

Personally, I think
Wagner is overrated and hardly listenable but that doesn't mean I think his
"music" should be censored.

RW would be more popular if Disney Studios would animate the Ring
Cycle,
add some Black, Jewish, and Mexican characters, and run the whole
thing at the tempo of a Roadrunner cartoon. ;-)

wrote in message
news

The board lacks the power to regulate what music the opera company can
perform: Today's motion, if approved, would result in a letter from the
board to the opera company asking it to lessen its focus on Wagner by
including works by other composers and offering lectures focusing on
Wagner's openly anti-Semitic views.

The arrogance of some Jews is amazing.

This is an interesting thought exercise. The facts against Wagner seem to
be that:

a)He had anti-Semitic views.

b)He did not commit crimes against Jews directly. (Actually, in his favor.)

c)The Holocaust did occur. (This aggravates the situation at a visceral
level because this type of mass murder is a very emotional issue.)

I do know that medical data obtained using unacceptable involuntary medical
experiments during that era have essentially been excluded.

The question of the "exclusion" of the music of someone who as best I know
didn't actually commit crimes is an interesting one. (c) changes all the
rules, due to the horrific magnitude of the crimes.

It is also relevant that Wagner's death predated the Holocaust, so his
remarks originally existed in a context that did not include the Holocaust.
He might not have made the remarks post-1945. So, literally, the original
context for interpreting the severity and appropriateness of the remarks is
gone.

An author with anti-black views might face similar scrutiny ...

Datesfat

Datesfat Chicks wrote
wrote

The board lacks the power to regulate what music the opera company
can perform: Today's motion, if approved, would result in a letter
from the board to the opera company asking it to lessen its focus
on Wagner by including works by other composers and offering
lectures focusing on Wagner's openly anti-Semitic views.

The arrogance of some Jews is amazing.

This is an interesting thought exercise. The facts against Wagner seem to be that:

a)He had anti-Semitic views.

He wasnt alone in that.

b)He did not commit crimes against Jews directly. (Actually, in his favor.)

c)The Holocaust did occur. (This aggravates the situation at a visceral level because this type of mass murder is a
very emotional issue.)

I do know that medical data obtained using unacceptable involuntary
medical experiments during that era have essentially been excluded.

No it hasnt.

The question of the "exclusion" of the music

No one is proposing that.

of someone who as best I know didn't actually commit crimes is an interesting one. (c) changes all the rules, due to
the horrific magnitude of the crimes.

It is also relevant that Wagner's death predated the Holocaust, so his remarks originally existed in a context that
did not include the Holocaust. He might not have made the remarks post-1945. So, literally, the original context for
interpreting the severity and
appropriateness of the remarks is gone.

An author with anti-black views might face similar scrutiny ...

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...

I do know that medical data obtained using unacceptable involuntary
medical experiments during that era have essentially been excluded.

No it hasnt.

http://www.jlaw.com/Articles/NaziMedEx.html

QUOTE: Pozos' plan to republish the Nazi data in the New England Journal of
Medicine was flatly vetoed by the Journal's editor, Doctor Arnold Relman.15
Relman's refusal to publish Nazi data along with Pozos' comments was
understandable given the source of the Nazi data and the way it was
obtained.

My understanding--and I'm not much of an Internet searcher--is that
consensus of the medical community was to exclude it. I didn't even know it
was available.

I clearly don't understand the issue very well ... please let me know where
I'm wrong.

The question of the "exclusion" of the music

No one is proposing that.

Not in the same way, no. But censorship is nearly equivalent to exclusion
in spirit.

Datesfat

Datesfat Chicks wrote
Rod Speed wrote

I do know that medical data obtained using unacceptable involuntary
medical experiments during that era have essentially been excluded.

No it hasnt.

http://www.jlaw.com/Articles/NaziMedEx.html

QUOTE: Pozos' plan to republish the Nazi data in the New England
Journal of Medicine was flatly vetoed by the Journal's editor, Doctor
Arnold Relman.15 Relman's refusal to publish Nazi data along with
Pozos' comments was understandable given the source of the Nazi data and the way it was obtained.

Says nothing useful about the rest of the medical data that hasnt been excluded.

My understanding--and I'm not much of an Internet searcher--
is that consensus of the medical community was to exclude it.

You're wrong.

I didn't even know it was available.

Corse it is.

I clearly don't understand the issue very well ... please let me know where I'm wrong.

Basically it hasnt been excluded.

The question of the "exclusion" of the music

No one is proposing that.

Not in the same way, no. But censorship is nearly equivalent to exclusion in spirit.

Nope. No one is even proposing all of Wagner's work be
burnt etc or even that it should no longer be buyable either.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Datesfat Chicks wrote
Rod Speed wrote

I do know that medical data obtained using unacceptable involuntary
medical experiments during that era have essentially been excluded.

No it hasnt.

http://www.jlaw.com/Articles/NaziMedEx.html

QUOTE: Pozos' plan to republish the Nazi data in the New England
Journal of Medicine was flatly vetoed by the Journal's editor, Doctor
Arnold Relman.15 Relman's refusal to publish Nazi data along with
Pozos' comments was understandable given the source of the Nazi data and
the way it was obtained.

Says nothing useful about the rest of the medical data that hasnt been
excluded.

My understanding--and I'm not much of an Internet searcher--
is that consensus of the medical community was to exclude it.

You're wrong.

I didn't even know it was available.

Corse it is.

I clearly don't understand the issue very well ... please let me know
where I'm wrong.

Basically it hasnt been excluded.

The question of the "exclusion" of the music

No one is proposing that.

Not in the same way, no. But censorship is nearly equivalent to
exclusion in spirit.

Nope. No one is even proposing all of Wagner's work be
burnt etc or even that it should no longer be buyable either.



The medical data is available. Hard to find, and is extremely frowned upon
to use or quote. Probably enough to derail a career. Which pretty much
excludes it use.