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The HenryGate Affair
Just watching a local interview with the arresting officer. There's another side to the story, folks. Makes you wonder *who* was acting "stupidly". Eisboch |
The HenryGate Affair
On 7/23/09 12:32 PM, Eisboch wrote:
Just watching a local interview with the arresting officer. There's another side to the story, folks. Makes you wonder *who* was acting "stupidly". Eisboch One would expect the cop to have "another side," eh? -- A wise Latina makes better decisions than a dumb elephant. |
The HenryGate Affair
"H the K" wrote in message m... On 7/23/09 12:32 PM, Eisboch wrote: Just watching a local interview with the arresting officer. There's another side to the story, folks. Makes you wonder *who* was acting "stupidly". Eisboch One would expect the cop to have "another side," eh? The reporter also interviewed friends, neighbors, acquaintances all of whom rejected any notion of him being a racist or "bad cop". Just the opposite, in fact. Furthermore, the police report contains many more details of the event that have been "overlooked" by most of the media and, apparently the POTUS. Nobody initially knew who Gates was or why he was there. Gates was not particularly cooperative, according to the official report and refused several legitimate requests to provide identification. All he did was make derogatory remarks related to the arresting officer's mother, according to the report. His lack of simple, civil cooperation resulted in his arrest. Believe what you want. Eisboch |
The HenryGate Affair
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The HenryGate Affair
On 7/23/09 12:52 PM, Eisboch wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message m... On 7/23/09 12:32 PM, Eisboch wrote: Just watching a local interview with the arresting officer. There's another side to the story, folks. Makes you wonder *who* was acting "stupidly". Eisboch One would expect the cop to have "another side," eh? The reporter also interviewed friends, neighbors, acquaintances all of whom rejected any notion of him being a racist or "bad cop". Just the opposite, in fact. Furthermore, the police report contains many more details of the event that have been "overlooked" by most of the media and, apparently the POTUS. Nobody initially knew who Gates was or why he was there. Gates was not particularly cooperative, according to the official report and refused several legitimate requests to provide identification. All he did was make derogatory remarks related to the arresting officer's mother, according to the report. His lack of simple, civil cooperation resulted in his arrest. Believe what you want. Eisboch I believe there is a considerable amount of racial profiling taking place in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and not just by the police. I read where the prof was "turned in" by his white next door neighbor at 12:30 pm. Gates produced ID while in his house. At the point, the cops should have left. Period. While it is a good idea to be polite to cops, it isn't legal requirement, especially when they are in your house after you have produced ID. -- A wise Latina makes better decisions than a dumb elephant. |
The HenryGate Affair
"H the K" wrote in message m... Gates produced ID while in his house. At the point, the cops should have left. Period. While it is a good idea to be polite to cops, it isn't legal requirement, especially when they are in your house after you have produced ID. I don't know what happened because I wasn't there. All I know is that there are conflicting stories, and no one should jump to conclusions. Eisboch |
The HenryGate Affair
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:03:55 -0400, NotNow wrote:
Richard Weinblatt, director of the Institute for Public Safety at Central Ohio Technical College, said the police sergeant was responsible for defusing the situation once he realized Gates was the lawful occupant. It is not against the law to yell at police, especially in a home, as long as that behavior does not affect an investigation, he said. "That is part of being a police officer in a democratic society," Weinblatt said. "The point is that the police sergeant needs to be the bigger person, take the higher road, be more professional." And that is absolulutely correct. The police need training to back down gracefully, make their apologies and leave once the true situation is known. A certain amount of racial profiling is probably inevitable in police work but professionalism and respect can make the difference in how it is perceived. |
The HenryGate Affair
Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:03:55 -0400, NotNow wrote: Richard Weinblatt, director of the Institute for Public Safety at Central Ohio Technical College, said the police sergeant was responsible for defusing the situation once he realized Gates was the lawful occupant. It is not against the law to yell at police, especially in a home, as long as that behavior does not affect an investigation, he said. "That is part of being a police officer in a democratic society," Weinblatt said. "The point is that the police sergeant needs to be the bigger person, take the higher road, be more professional." And that is absolulutely correct. The police need training to back down gracefully, make their apologies and leave once the true situation is known. A certain amount of racial profiling is probably inevitable in police work but professionalism and respect can make the difference in how it is perceived. I agree 100% |
The HenryGate Affair
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The HenryGate Affair
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The HenryGate Affair
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:03:55 -0400, NotNow wrote:
wrote: On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 12:32:45 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: Just watching a local interview with the arresting officer. There's another side to the story, folks. Makes you wonder *who* was acting "stupidly". Eisboch Gates was clearly wrong not to produce ID immediately. Fighting with a cop, responding to a burglary in progress complaint is the stupid thing. I am an old white guy in a nice neighborhood and I would expect the cop to be suspicious of me until I showed some kind of ID. I am sure that if this happened while Gates was gone, and it was a real burglar, he would be complaining that the cops were not forceful enough with the burglars if they let them walk without showing ID. I would be thanking the police for protecting my home. That is what I pay them for. I am not sure if it is true but my NBC news outlet was flashing a picture of an arrest report with "intoxicated" in bold print on it. I understand these people are petty sloppy with their "B roll" footage and that could have really been Mel Gibson's arrest report since the Cambridge police have not "officially" released the report but if this was something that the news crew shot at the station this whole thing might quietly go away. This does say something about how well race relations are working in liberal Massachusetts when his neighbor can't even recognize their only black neighbor in broad daylight. "Black students and professors at Harvard have complained for years about racial profiling by Cambridge and campus police. Harvard commissioned an independent committee last year to examine the university's race relations after campus police confronted a young black man who was using tools to remove a bike lock. The man worked at Harvard and owned the bike. Please don't take offense at this, but you know - that's stretching the whole idea of "racial profiling". What if it had been a black officer and the student a white guy? Or even if the student had been a white guy? Do you seriously think that the cops aren't going to ask questions and if positive ID and ownership can't be established, do nothing about it? Come on - be reasonable. Richard Weinblatt, director of the Institute for Public Safety at Central Ohio Technical College, said the police sergeant was responsible for defusing the situation once he realized Gates was the lawful occupant. It is not against the law to yell at police, especially in a home, as long as that behavior does not affect an investigation, he said. "That is part of being a police officer in a democratic society," Weinblatt said. "The point is that the police sergeant needs to be the bigger person, take the higher road, be more professional." Interesting. Mr. Weinblatt isn't listed as a member of the faculty of the Central Ohio Technical College. http://newark.osu.edu/faculty/osun.asp |
The HenryGate Affair
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:47:02 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:03:55 -0400, NotNow wrote: Richard Weinblatt, director of the Institute for Public Safety at Central Ohio Technical College, said the police sergeant was responsible for defusing the situation once he realized Gates was the lawful occupant. It is not against the law to yell at police, especially in a home, as long as that behavior does not affect an investigation, he said. "That is part of being a police officer in a democratic society," Weinblatt said. "The point is that the police sergeant needs to be the bigger person, take the higher road, be more professional." And that is absolulutely correct. The police need training to back down gracefully, make their apologies and leave once the true situation is known. A certain amount of racial profiling is probably inevitable in police work but professionalism and respect can make the difference in how it is perceived. No offense Wayne, but there has to be something wrong with folks who aren't cops telling cops how to be cops. The officer in question has witnesses, including a responding black officer, who verified his statements. The officer in question has the training in racial profiling and teaches it. He is a decorated officer and has been recognized as one of the best. Gates on the other hand is an officious Harvard prig who has used his "do you know who I am" attitude in confrontations with airport security at Logan to confrontations with security guards and hospital employees including his own staff. Add to that - his neighbors hate his guts. That's got to tell you something. |
The HenryGate Affair
On 7/23/09 5:45 PM, Yogi of Woodstock wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:47:02 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:03:55 -0400, wrote: Richard Weinblatt, director of the Institute for Public Safety at Central Ohio Technical College, said the police sergeant was responsible for defusing the situation once he realized Gates was the lawful occupant. It is not against the law to yell at police, especially in a home, as long as that behavior does not affect an investigation, he said. "That is part of being a police officer in a democratic society," Weinblatt said. "The point is that the police sergeant needs to be the bigger person, take the higher road, be more professional." And that is absolulutely correct. The police need training to back down gracefully, make their apologies and leave once the true situation is known. A certain amount of racial profiling is probably inevitable in police work but professionalism and respect can make the difference in how it is perceived. No offense Wayne, but there has to be something wrong with folks who aren't cops telling cops how to be cops. The officer in question has witnesses, including a responding black officer, who verified his statements. The officer in question has the training in racial profiling and teaches it. He is a decorated officer and has been recognized as one of the best. Gates on the other hand is an officious Harvard prig who has used his "do you know who I am" attitude in confrontations with airport security at Logan to confrontations with security guards and hospital employees including his own staff. Add to that - his neighbors hate his guts. That's got to tell you something. Cops lying for cops lying for cops lying for cops. What else is new? -- A wise Latina makes better decisions than a dumb elephant. |
The HenryGate Affair
"H the K" wrote in message m... On 7/23/09 5:45 PM, Yogi of Woodstock wrote: The officer in question has witnesses, including a responding black officer, who verified his statements. The officer in question has the training in racial profiling and teaches it. He is a decorated officer and has been recognized as one of the best. Gates on the other hand is an officious Harvard prig who has used his "do you know who I am" attitude in confrontations with airport security at Logan to confrontations with security guards and hospital employees including his own staff. Add to that - his neighbors hate his guts. That's got to tell you something. Cops lying for cops lying for cops lying for cops. What else is new? Harry, your logic circuit breaker tripped again. Reset it, read Tom's post again and try again. Eisboch |
The HenryGate Affair
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The HenryGate Affair
On 7/23/09 6:01 PM, Eisboch wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message m... On 7/23/09 5:45 PM, Yogi of Woodstock wrote: The officer in question has witnesses, including a responding black officer, who verified his statements. The officer in question has the training in racial profiling and teaches it. He is a decorated officer and has been recognized as one of the best. Gates on the other hand is an officious Harvard prig who has used his "do you know who I am" attitude in confrontations with airport security at Logan to confrontations with security guards and hospital employees including his own staff. Add to that - his neighbors hate his guts. That's got to tell you something. Cops lying for cops lying for cops lying for cops. What else is new? Harry, your logic circuit breaker tripped again. Reset it, read Tom's post again and try again. Eisboch Tom has a kid who is a cop. Therefore, he is predisposed to believe cops. I am not so predisposed. The sergeant should have known better. He overreacted to a nearly 60-year old slightly built man who needs a cane to get around. The cop should have said, "Sorry, we're just doing our jobs...have a nice day..." and left. As for one cop vouching for another...I'm not impressed. Remember Amadou Bailo Diallo, the 23-year-old Guinean immigrant in New York City who was shot and killed on February 4, 1999 by four New York City Police Department plain-clothed officers? You know...the subject of the song 41 Shots? The case in which Diallo was murdered by out of control cops who lied for each other and got off? -- A wise Latina makes better decisions than a dumb elephant. |
The HenryGate Affair
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The HenryGate Affair
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:45:13 -0400, Yogi of Woodstock
wrote: On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:47:02 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:03:55 -0400, NotNow wrote: Richard Weinblatt, director of the Institute for Public Safety at Central Ohio Technical College, said the police sergeant was responsible for defusing the situation once he realized Gates was the lawful occupant. It is not against the law to yell at police, especially in a home, as long as that behavior does not affect an investigation, he said. "That is part of being a police officer in a democratic society," Weinblatt said. "The point is that the police sergeant needs to be the bigger person, take the higher road, be more professional." And that is absolulutely correct. The police need training to back down gracefully, make their apologies and leave once the true situation is known. A certain amount of racial profiling is probably inevitable in police work but professionalism and respect can make the difference in how it is perceived. No offense Wayne, but there has to be something wrong with folks who aren't cops telling cops how to be cops. The officer in question has witnesses, including a responding black officer, who verified his statements. The officer in question has the training in racial profiling and teaches it. He is a decorated officer and has been recognized as one of the best. Gates on the other hand is an officious Harvard prig who has used his "do you know who I am" attitude in confrontations with airport security at Logan to confrontations with security guards and hospital employees including his own staff. Add to that - his neighbors hate his guts. That's got to tell you something. I'm sure that's all true but I still think the cops should have backed off once they knew that he lived there. |
The HenryGate Affair
"H the K" wrote in message m... Gates on the other hand is an officious Harvard prig who has used his "do you know who I am" attitude in confrontations with airport security at Logan to confrontations with security guards and hospital employees including his own staff. Add to that - his neighbors hate his guts. That's got to tell you something. Cops lying for cops lying for cops lying for cops. What else is new? Harry, your logic circuit breaker tripped again. Reset it, read Tom's post again and try again. Eisboch Tom has a kid who is a cop. Therefore, he is predisposed to believe cops. I am not so predisposed. Forget the cops since you don't trust any. I was talking about this part of Tom's post: "Gates on the other hand is an officious Harvard prig who has used his "do you know who I am" attitude in confrontations with airport security at Logan to confrontations with security guards and hospital employees including his own staff. Add to that - his neighbors hate his guts. That's got to tell you something." You opted to ignore that part. Eisboch |
The HenryGate Affair
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... I have no doubt that there is plenty of culpability on the part of Gates applying normal standards of behavior and decorum. The cops however, once realizing that they'd made an honest mistake, should have let it go. Although it would have been nice if Gates had shown a little restraint on his part, he was probably already a bit out of sorts even before the police arrived from the 20 hour flight, arriving home to find himself locked out, etc. Who knows what else may have gone wrong for him that day? There's plenty of opportunity for that when you are traveling. I get scolded for snapping at an alarm company salesman. Eisboch |
The HenryGate Affair
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:49:10 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:45:13 -0400, Yogi of Woodstock wrote: On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:47:02 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:03:55 -0400, NotNow wrote: Richard Weinblatt, director of the Institute for Public Safety at Central Ohio Technical College, said the police sergeant was responsible for defusing the situation once he realized Gates was the lawful occupant. It is not against the law to yell at police, especially in a home, as long as that behavior does not affect an investigation, he said. "That is part of being a police officer in a democratic society," Weinblatt said. "The point is that the police sergeant needs to be the bigger person, take the higher road, be more professional." And that is absolulutely correct. The police need training to back down gracefully, make their apologies and leave once the true situation is known. A certain amount of racial profiling is probably inevitable in police work but professionalism and respect can make the difference in how it is perceived. No offense Wayne, but there has to be something wrong with folks who aren't cops telling cops how to be cops. The officer in question has witnesses, including a responding black officer, who verified his statements. The officer in question has the training in racial profiling and teaches it. He is a decorated officer and has been recognized as one of the best. Gates on the other hand is an officious Harvard prig who has used his "do you know who I am" attitude in confrontations with airport security at Logan to confrontations with security guards and hospital employees including his own staff. Add to that - his neighbors hate his guts. That's got to tell you something. I'm sure that's all true but I still think the cops should have backed off once they knew that he lived there. Well, then we will agree to disagree. :) |
The HenryGate Affair
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:00:22 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote: I get scolded for snapping at an alarm company salesman. I snap at telemarketers all the time, and get scolded, but there's a big difference between a scolding and an arrest. :-) I've had to excercise a lot of self restraint with the airport security folks at times. That's probably about the closest thing to a police state that I ever hope to encounter. |
The HenryGate Affair
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:29:51 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock
wrote: Add to that - his neighbors hate his guts. That's got to tell you something. I'm sure that's all true but I still think the cops should have backed off once they knew that he lived there. Well, then we will agree to disagree. :) Hopefully we can agree that having a bad attitude is not a crime, especially in your own home. :-) |
The HenryGate Affair
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:45:54 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: I have no doubt that there is plenty of culpability on the part of Gates applying normal standards of behavior and decorum. The cops however, once realizing that they'd made an honest mistake, should have let it go. Although it would have been nice if Gates had shown a little restraint on his part, he was probably already a bit out of sorts even before the police arrived from the 20 hour flight, arriving home to find himself locked out, etc. Who knows what else may have gone wrong for him that day? There's plenty of opportunity for that when you are traveling. Let me ask you this in the spirt of discussion. Why is it ok for Gates to be insulting, telling an officer who, apparently and to all appearances and reports does not have any race bias at all, that he's a racist and use a degoratory reference to his mother because he's having a bad day - why is that an excuse? In Sgt. Crowley's defense, it's standard practice, policy and procedure to cuff and detain citizens who are unruly and or disorderly both for the protection of the officer as well as the citizen on the theory that it places the situation back in control. Sgt. Crowley did nothing wrong, followed policy and procedure and was called stupid by the President of the United States who admitted that he didn't know all the fact before he made that statement. Oh - it also appears that the open wireless mike that officers carry which is part of the in-car camera system verifies Sgt. Crowley's version of the incident according to news reports. |
The HenryGate Affair
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:00:22 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote: I get scolded for snapping at an alarm company salesman. As you should have been you reactionary right wing whatever is the derogatory term of the day. :) |
The HenryGate Affair
"Wizard of Woodstock" wrote in message ... On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:49:10 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:45:13 -0400, Yogi of Woodstock wrote: On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:47:02 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:03:55 -0400, NotNow wrote: Richard Weinblatt, director of the Institute for Public Safety at Central Ohio Technical College, said the police sergeant was responsible for defusing the situation once he realized Gates was the lawful occupant. It is not against the law to yell at police, especially in a home, as long as that behavior does not affect an investigation, he said. "That is part of being a police officer in a democratic society," Weinblatt said. "The point is that the police sergeant needs to be the bigger person, take the higher road, be more professional." And that is absolulutely correct. The police need training to back down gracefully, make their apologies and leave once the true situation is known. A certain amount of racial profiling is probably inevitable in police work but professionalism and respect can make the difference in how it is perceived. No offense Wayne, but there has to be something wrong with folks who aren't cops telling cops how to be cops. The officer in question has witnesses, including a responding black officer, who verified his statements. The officer in question has the training in racial profiling and teaches it. He is a decorated officer and has been recognized as one of the best. Gates on the other hand is an officious Harvard prig who has used his "do you know who I am" attitude in confrontations with airport security at Logan to confrontations with security guards and hospital employees including his own staff. Add to that - his neighbors hate his guts. That's got to tell you something. I'm sure that's all true but I still think the cops should have backed off once they knew that he lived there. Well, then we will agree to disagree. :) Maybe he had not proved he lived there. |
The HenryGate Affair
On 7/23/09 6:54 PM, Eisboch wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message m... Gates on the other hand is an officious Harvard prig who has used his "do you know who I am" attitude in confrontations with airport security at Logan to confrontations with security guards and hospital employees including his own staff. Add to that - his neighbors hate his guts. That's got to tell you something. Cops lying for cops lying for cops lying for cops. What else is new? Harry, your logic circuit breaker tripped again. Reset it, read Tom's post again and try again. Eisboch Tom has a kid who is a cop. Therefore, he is predisposed to believe cops. I am not so predisposed. Forget the cops since you don't trust any. I was talking about this part of Tom's post: "Gates on the other hand is an officious Harvard prig who has used his "do you know who I am" attitude in confrontations with airport security at Logan to confrontations with security guards and hospital employees including his own staff. Add to that - his neighbors hate his guts. That's got to tell you something." You opted to ignore that part. Eisboch His neighbors hate his guts, so one of them called the cops on him when he forgot his keys? White American at it's best, eh? It doesn't matter whether Gates was obnoxious or not. Once the cop realized the guy was in his own house, he should have backed off and left. Maybe the difference here is that you and Tom seem to have great respect for people in uniform and think they deserve deference and respect just because of those uniforms. Well...I do respect firefighters...they wear uniforms. |
The HenryGate Affair
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:40:49 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:29:51 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock wrote: Add to that - his neighbors hate his guts. That's got to tell you something. I'm sure that's all true but I still think the cops should have backed off once they knew that he lived there. Well, then we will agree to disagree. :) Hopefully we can agree that having a bad attitude is not a crime, especially in your own home. :-) Well, for the sake of fraternity, peace and universal harmony, I will stipulate that having a bad attitude isn't a crime in certain circumstances. But that's as far as I go. :) |
The HenryGate Affair
On 7/23/09 7:47 PM, Wizard of Woodstock wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:45:54 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: I have no doubt that there is plenty of culpability on the part of Gates applying normal standards of behavior and decorum. The cops however, once realizing that they'd made an honest mistake, should have let it go. Although it would have been nice if Gates had shown a little restraint on his part, he was probably already a bit out of sorts even before the police arrived from the 20 hour flight, arriving home to find himself locked out, etc. Who knows what else may have gone wrong for him that day? There's plenty of opportunity for that when you are traveling. Let me ask you this in the spirt of discussion. Why is it ok for Gates to be insulting, telling an officer who, apparently and to all appearances and reports does not have any race bias at all, that he's a racist and use a degoratory reference to his mother because he's having a bad day - why is that an excuse? In Sgt. Crowley's defense, it's standard practice, policy and procedure to cuff and detain citizens who are unruly and or disorderly both for the protection of the officer as well as the citizen on the theory that it places the situation back in control. Sgt. Crowley did nothing wrong, followed policy and procedure and was called stupid by the President of the United States who admitted that he didn't know all the fact before he made that statement. Oh - it also appears that the open wireless mike that officers carry which is part of the in-car camera system verifies Sgt. Crowley's version of the incident according to news reports. The cop was in Gates' house on suspicion of a burglary. Once he determined there was none, he should have left. The cop comes across like a townie with an attitude, and he sounded exactly that way in a tv interview I saw this evening. |
The HenryGate Affair
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:26:38 -0400, Zombie of Woodstock
wrote: "Black students and professors at Harvard have complained for years about racial profiling by Cambridge and campus police. Harvard commissioned an independent committee last year to examine the university's race relations after campus police confronted a young black man who was using tools to remove a bike lock. The man worked at Harvard and owned the bike. Please don't take offense at this, but you know - that's stretching the whole idea of "racial profiling". Police do all kinds of profiling, not just racial/ethnic but also economic. I know, I've been the victim of it a few times. Ha ha, very funny you say, Wayne B, a moderately prosperous white boy with a half decent education the victim of economic profiling? Most definitely, here's a few examples: 1. As a college student I was far from prosperous and used to drive around in older cars, usually well maintained, but not exactly show room fresh shall we say. I used to get stopped on all kind of pretexts, some obviously trumped up, like an allegedly inoperable tail light that some how became operable right after being stopped. It doesn't take too much of that to realize that it's happening to other people also, and it breeds disrespect for the law. 2. As a resident of a very well off community in Westchester County (Larchmont Woods), at one time I used to keep a ratty old Plymouth Duster for driving to the train station. There was always a police officer outside the station directing traffic in the morning. One day the car in front of me made an abrupt stop and I also stopped quickly in a nice orderly fashion. The white Cadillac behind me was not so lucky and had to lock up his tires in a screeching halt to avoid hitting me. The cop looked up to see what the commotion was about and immediately decided that I must have been to blame. He came over to my window ready to read me the riot act or worse. I patiently explained that it was the car behind me (the white Cadillac) that had skidded to a stop. He accepted my answer but said absolutely nothing to the driver of the Caddy. |
The HenryGate Affair
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:47:42 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock
wrote: Why is it ok for Gates to be insulting, telling an officer who, apparently and to all appearances and reports does not have any race bias at all, that he's a racist and use a degoratory reference to his mother because he's having a bad day - why is that an excuse? I didn't say it was OK but it is not a reason to arrest someone in their own home who was incorrectly suspected of a crime. Big difference. |
The HenryGate Affair
"H K" wrote in message ... On 7/23/09 6:54 PM, Eisboch wrote: "H the K" wrote in message m... Gates on the other hand is an officious Harvard prig who has used his "do you know who I am" attitude in confrontations with airport security at Logan to confrontations with security guards and hospital employees including his own staff. Add to that - his neighbors hate his guts. That's got to tell you something. Cops lying for cops lying for cops lying for cops. What else is new? Harry, your logic circuit breaker tripped again. Reset it, read Tom's post again and try again. Eisboch Tom has a kid who is a cop. Therefore, he is predisposed to believe cops. I am not so predisposed. Forget the cops since you don't trust any. I was talking about this part of Tom's post: "Gates on the other hand is an officious Harvard prig who has used his "do you know who I am" attitude in confrontations with airport security at Logan to confrontations with security guards and hospital employees including his own staff. Add to that - his neighbors hate his guts. That's got to tell you something." You opted to ignore that part. Eisboch His neighbors hate his guts, so one of them called the cops on him when he forgot his keys? White American at it's best, eh? It doesn't matter whether Gates was obnoxious or not. Once the cop realized the guy was in his own house, he should have backed off and left. Maybe the difference here is that you and Tom seem to have great respect for people in uniform and think they deserve deference and respect just because of those uniforms. Well...I do respect firefighters...they wear uniforms. Bad apples in every group. http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/downloads/pd...ons/tr-141.pdf |
The HenryGate Affair
"Wizard of Woodstock" wrote in message ... On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:49:10 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:45:13 -0400, Yogi of Woodstock wrote: On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:47:02 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:03:55 -0400, NotNow wrote: Richard Weinblatt, director of the Institute for Public Safety at Central Ohio Technical College, said the police sergeant was responsible for defusing the situation once he realized Gates was the lawful occupant. It is not against the law to yell at police, especially in a home, as long as that behavior does not affect an investigation, he said. "That is part of being a police officer in a democratic society," Weinblatt said. "The point is that the police sergeant needs to be the bigger person, take the higher road, be more professional." And that is absolulutely correct. The police need training to back down gracefully, make their apologies and leave once the true situation is known. A certain amount of racial profiling is probably inevitable in police work but professionalism and respect can make the difference in how it is perceived. No offense Wayne, but there has to be something wrong with folks who aren't cops telling cops how to be cops. The officer in question has witnesses, including a responding black officer, who verified his statements. The officer in question has the training in racial profiling and teaches it. He is a decorated officer and has been recognized as one of the best. Gates on the other hand is an officious Harvard prig who has used his "do you know who I am" attitude in confrontations with airport security at Logan to confrontations with security guards and hospital employees including his own staff. Add to that - his neighbors hate his guts. That's got to tell you something. I'm sure that's all true but I still think the cops should have backed off once they knew that he lived there. Well, then we will agree to disagree. :) Now that's a novel approach for this group. What, no nasty name calling? |
The HenryGate Affair
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:09:34 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:26:38 -0400, Zombie of Woodstock wrote: "Black students and professors at Harvard have complained for years about racial profiling by Cambridge and campus police. Harvard commissioned an independent committee last year to examine the university's race relations after campus police confronted a young black man who was using tools to remove a bike lock. The man worked at Harvard and owned the bike. Please don't take offense at this, but you know - that's stretching the whole idea of "racial profiling". Police do all kinds of profiling, not just racial/ethnic but also economic. I know, I've been the victim of it a few times. Ha ha, very funny you say, Wayne B, a moderately prosperous white boy with a half decent education the victim of economic profiling? Most definitely, here's a few examples: 1. As a college student I was far from prosperous and used to drive around in older cars, usually well maintained, but not exactly show room fresh shall we say. I used to get stopped on all kind of pretexts, some obviously trumped up, like an allegedly inoperable tail light that some how became operable right after being stopped. It doesn't take too much of that to realize that it's happening to other people also, and it breeds disrespect for the law. 2. As a resident of a very well off community in Westchester County (Larchmont Woods), at one time I used to keep a ratty old Plymouth Duster for driving to the train station. There was always a police officer outside the station directing traffic in the morning. One day the car in front of me made an abrupt stop and I also stopped quickly in a nice orderly fashion. The white Cadillac behind me was not so lucky and had to lock up his tires in a screeching halt to avoid hitting me. The cop looked up to see what the commotion was about and immediately decided that I must have been to blame. He came over to my window ready to read me the riot act or worse. I patiently explained that it was the car behind me (the white Cadillac) that had skidded to a stop. He accepted my answer but said absolutely nothing to the driver of the Caddy. Some of this stuff is the normal "paranoia" or touchiness of human interaction. Some of this stuff is folks taking offense at police authority. They're too "smart" and "important" to be bothered by somebody "dumber" and "not as important." Not saying any of this is fact, but here's a couple possibilities for your cases. In the first example you cite, maybe the cops weren't stopping you to hassle you. When you were a kid, you may have been a suspicious character to the cops. Maybe you looked around too much, or your head was unnaturally motionless. Maybe it happened that a car like yours was just reported to be stolen or involved in a crime or a person fitting your description. Cops key in on these things. In the second incident, maybe the cop profiled your car, but just maybe his ears mistakenly directed his eyes to it. By the time he bought your explanation he had cooled down and shrugged the whole thing off. Cops are human. Anyway, I'm reposting my rules about this, first posted years ago in the rec.autos.driving group when we were talking about cops and tickets. Got it from Mendel. ****** A cop and a driver get together to make most traffic tickets. It can be a complex process but let's concentrate on the prick chromosome of the event, and its dominance. This is a simplification, and there are exceptions, but as a general rule you can bet on it. non-prick driver + non-prick cop = no ticket. non-prick driver + prick cop = ticket prick driver + non-prick cop = ticket prick driver + prick cop = ticket - at least On the surface, that looks a lot worse than it is. Because the vast majority of cops aren't pricks, your odds are really good. I won't go into the times a cop gave me a pass because I simply treated him as I would any one else. Doesn't hurt to be a good schmoozer either. Ran into prick cops twice. Beat both tickets. I got profile-stopped once. I tore down the boiler in my house one evening to clean it. Soot all over. Decided to replace a part. Bathed, and washed my hair with something really strong to get the soot out. Combed my hair straight back and hit the sack. Got out of bed bright and early to get to the parts store. Just tossed on clean work clothes and jumped in my truck. As I'm hitting the stop sign at the end of my street I glance in the rear view mirror and didn't recognize myself. My hair is sticking straight up, and since I just woke up 30 seconds ago my eyes looked like they're propped open with toothpicks or something. Scary. As I stop, a paddy wagon rolls by on the cross street in the direction I'm going, driver on my side. The cop glances at me, looks back ahead then his head spins back at me. Classic double take. I'll never forget it. As I turned behind them the cop is already pulling over and has his arm out the window waving me to stop. Asked if I lived around there and wanted to see my license. Even though I'm usually crabby in the morning, I didn't blame them. I saw myself in the mirror. Looked like a ****ing psycho wacko cult killer. The incident made my day. Another time in '68 I was working in the mills and had a beard, catching up for it being disallowed in the Navy. I got ticketed for backing into an empty street. Technically righteous ticket, but the hippies were rioting downtown at the Dem convention, so the beard nailed it. I could feel it. Human nature. This Henry Gates guy lost his cool. Bad move with a cop. I worked with a lot of black guys at IH who would be Gate's age now. One I talked to a lot and went to the track with set me straight on this profiling. Leroy, and he's probably dead now, or about 80. This was about '69 and he told me he had been stopped on the way to work - west side of Chicago. Wasn't the first time either. I didn't see anything wrong with cops stopping him, since there was a lot of crime going on there. He said, "Vic, I'm here working with you, I go to church, I'm putting 2 of my kids through college, and I don't break the law. You're out drinking every day and carrying on. Are you getting stopped for nothing? What's the difference?" I agreed with him mostly. He was a good man, and there were plenty of racist cops in Chicago. But the larger problem was the crime, and that's a cop's job to handle. If they weren't on their toes on the west side then, the residents would be squawking about racist "lack of police protection." Lots of blacks of Gate's age carry a chip on their shoulder. As the details come out, he don't look too good. That chip will always exacerbate the race issue. When these guys and their white counterparts are gone, much of it will go away with them. Obama surprised me, saying the cops acted stupidly, but at least he was smarter than Gates and didn't call them racist. --Vic |
The HenryGate Affair
D.Duck wrote:
"Wizard of Woodstock" wrote in message ... On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:49:10 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:45:13 -0400, Yogi of Woodstock wrote: On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:47:02 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:03:55 -0400, NotNow wrote: Richard Weinblatt, director of the Institute for Public Safety at Central Ohio Technical College, said the police sergeant was responsible for defusing the situation once he realized Gates was the lawful occupant. It is not against the law to yell at police, especially in a home, as long as that behavior does not affect an investigation, he said. "That is part of being a police officer in a democratic society," Weinblatt said. "The point is that the police sergeant needs to be the bigger person, take the higher road, be more professional." And that is absolulutely correct. The police need training to back down gracefully, make their apologies and leave once the true situation is known. A certain amount of racial profiling is probably inevitable in police work but professionalism and respect can make the difference in how it is perceived. No offense Wayne, but there has to be something wrong with folks who aren't cops telling cops how to be cops. The officer in question has witnesses, including a responding black officer, who verified his statements. The officer in question has the training in racial profiling and teaches it. He is a decorated officer and has been recognized as one of the best. Gates on the other hand is an officious Harvard prig who has used his "do you know who I am" attitude in confrontations with airport security at Logan to confrontations with security guards and hospital employees including his own staff. Add to that - his neighbors hate his guts. That's got to tell you something. I'm sure that's all true but I still think the cops should have backed off once they knew that he lived there. Well, then we will agree to disagree. :) Now that's a novel approach for this group. What, no nasty name calling? A neighbor who was aware of a break in to Gates' home while he was on vacation sees two guys with backpacks pound in a door on the same house and calls the cops. Cops get there and find a man in the home and ask him for ID. Immediately Gates starts screaming racial crap at the cop, about his mom, etc... Will not hand over ID etc. He said... "Do you know who I am?" "Call the Chief!" uh, "What's the Chief's name?" "I will go outside with your momma." "Why (should I show you ID), because I am a Black man?" Gates is just another racist asshole, known for throwing his "weight" around. What he really needs is a good ass kickin'... |
The HenryGate Affair
On Jul 23, 6:38*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:00:22 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: I get scolded for snapping at an alarm company salesman. I snap at telemarketers all the time, and get scolded, but there's a big difference between a scolding and an arrest. * :-) * I've had to exercise a lot of self restraint with the airport security folks at times. *That's probably about the closest thing to a police state that I ever hope to encounter. I have difficulty snagging a live tele-marketer to snap to anymore. *sigh* the world of automated market calling.... |
The HenryGate Affair
Just wait a frekin' minute! wrote:
Gates is just another racist asshole, known for throwing his "weight" around. What he really needs is a good ass kickin'... Moron. -- A wise Latina makes better decisions than a dumb elephant. |
The HenryGate Affair
Eisboch wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... I have no doubt that there is plenty of culpability on the part of Gates applying normal standards of behavior and decorum. The cops however, once realizing that they'd made an honest mistake, should have let it go. Although it would have been nice if Gates had shown a little restraint on his part, he was probably already a bit out of sorts even before the police arrived from the 20 hour flight, arriving home to find himself locked out, etc. Who knows what else may have gone wrong for him that day? There's plenty of opportunity for that when you are traveling. I get scolded for snapping at an alarm company salesman. Eisboch That's because the person who scolded you is an idiot, and is just trying to stir ****. |
The HenryGate Affair
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:06:00 -0400, H the K
wrote: What? That I'd shoot someone that busted into my house? That's not a "plan to shoot someone." That's just part of a household defense mechanism to protect the lives here. Having a home defence gun is not a bad idea, essential if you live in the country. However, if money is short for things like fire extinguishers and smoke detectors, not to mention flu shots, get a cheap used gun. A single shot 12 ga, with a short, but still legal, 19 inch barrel. If you want to go after Bambi, a scope, from the recreation budget, is a good idea. Casady |
The HenryGate Affair
Richard Casady wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:06:00 -0400, H the K wrote: What? That I'd shoot someone that busted into my house? That's not a "plan to shoot someone." That's just part of a household defense mechanism to protect the lives here. Having a home defence gun is not a bad idea, essential if you live in the country. However, if money is short for things like fire extinguishers and smoke detectors, not to mention flu shots, get a cheap used gun. A single shot 12 ga, with a short, but still legal, 19 inch barrel. If you want to go after Bambi, a scope, from the recreation budget, is a good idea. Casady He lives in a questionable area, perhaps. Also, being such a lying, insulting, vulgar ass he's ****ed off so many people that he has to answer his door with a gun. |
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