"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 14:03:56 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


I'll stick my nose in. I think by "investing" Frogwatch was referring
to
the entrepreneurial spirit of creating, building and hopefully succeeding
as
a business.



What about bringing in some Mexicans to do that?
Might work.
They do pretty well with food service, construction, lawn care, etc.
Hustlers.
They can bring in some Indians, Chinamen and Ruskies for the
engineering parts.
Good engineers, don't want much pay, and don't whine all the time.
Hell, I ran a crew at the last big business I worked for.
The policy was to toss Iraq vet resumes in the garbage, and hire
foreigners. Fortune 100, doing domestic business only.
If Froggy gets hungry enough they might hire him on too.
You surely don't think America has a lock on entrepreneurs?

--Vic


I don't think I said or implied that.
Have another beer.

Eisboch

On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:49:13 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Vic Smith" wrote in message
.. .

On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 14:03:56 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


I'll stick my nose in. I think by "investing" Frogwatch was referring
to
the entrepreneurial spirit of creating, building and hopefully succeeding
as
a business.



What about bringing in some Mexicans to do that?
Might work.
They do pretty well with food service, construction, lawn care, etc.
Hustlers.
They can bring in some Indians, Chinamen and Ruskies for the
engineering parts.
Good engineers, don't want much pay, and don't whine all the time.
Hell, I ran a crew at the last big business I worked for.
The policy was to toss Iraq vet resumes in the garbage, and hire
foreigners. Fortune 100, doing domestic business only.
If Froggy gets hungry enough they might hire him on too.
You surely don't think America has a lock on entrepreneurs?

--Vic


I don't think I said or implied that.
Have another beer.

Nah, pretty much no more than one a day anymore.
Whether you directly implied it or not, it has been implied
here that there is a "special class" of Americans that everybody
depends on, and deserve special favors.
Sorry, America is a team.
Much of big business doesn't see it that way.
If the team falls apart, the coaches are out of a job too.
If you think foreign workers are fine, then so are foreign coaches.
That's just how it works, IMO.
Sorry for my patriotism. I know it offends some.
And I'm not criticizing any of your business practices, but your
defense of big business without much qualification about how
globalistic practice damages America.
Here's a capitalist that seems to have his head screwed on straight.
http://www.reuters.com/article/busin...busine ssNews

We all know that business is the engine of the economy.
But the coach needs the team as much as the reverse.
The question is how business and America will work as a team.
We will remain a free market, but as I suggested in another post,
unless business satisfies the people, it will be molded to their will.
That will all work itself out naturally.
Ain't it great?

--Vic

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:49:13 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Vic Smith" wrote in message
. ..

On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 14:03:56 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


I'll stick my nose in. I think by "investing" Frogwatch was referring
to
the entrepreneurial spirit of creating, building and hopefully
succeeding
as
a business.



What about bringing in some Mexicans to do that?
Might work.
They do pretty well with food service, construction, lawn care, etc.
Hustlers.
They can bring in some Indians, Chinamen and Ruskies for the
engineering parts.
Good engineers, don't want much pay, and don't whine all the time.
Hell, I ran a crew at the last big business I worked for.
The policy was to toss Iraq vet resumes in the garbage, and hire
foreigners. Fortune 100, doing domestic business only.
If Froggy gets hungry enough they might hire him on too.
You surely don't think America has a lock on entrepreneurs?

--Vic


I don't think I said or implied that.
Have another beer.

Nah, pretty much no more than one a day anymore.
Whether you directly implied it or not, it has been implied
here that there is a "special class" of Americans that everybody
depends on, and deserve special favors.
Sorry, America is a team.
Much of big business doesn't see it that way.
If the team falls apart, the coaches are out of a job too.
If you think foreign workers are fine, then so are foreign coaches.
That's just how it works, IMO.
Sorry for my patriotism. I know it offends some.
And I'm not criticizing any of your business practices, but your
defense of big business without much qualification about how
globalistic practice damages America.
Here's a capitalist that seems to have his head screwed on straight.
http://www.reuters.com/article/busin...busine ssNews

We all know that business is the engine of the economy.
But the coach needs the team as much as the reverse.
The question is how business and America will work as a team.
We will remain a free market, but as I suggested in another post,
unless business satisfies the people, it will be molded to their will.
That will all work itself out naturally.
Ain't it great?

--Vic


I may be talking out of my hat because I've never worked for a "big
business".
However, I have quite a bit of experience interfacing with many who do.
Most were technical or engineering based companies, so maybe there is a
fault in my opinion, but with very few exceptions, everyone I've dealt with
from lab techs, engineers, middle management and occasionally to top
management were all very satisfied and felt fully employed for their
different backgrounds, educational levels and experience. There was pride
in the company and there was a team atmosphere. The few companies that I
sensed disgruntled employees where the ones most closely linked to the
government via federal (military) contracts and in those with strong unions.

The worst (union wise) was McDonnell Douglas, Federal Systems Division in
St. Louis. I cannot, for the life of me, understand how that division got
anything done.

That seems a bit strange, huh? In my world, companies with big federal
contracts and who were unionized had the worst moral and the most bitching
and complaining.

Eisboch

On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 17:08:07 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:



I may be talking out of my hat because I've never worked for a "big
business".

I have, and mostly on the "finance" side with a white collar.
Insurance mostly, but some others.
Many of my workmates went bye bye due to globalization.
That not only affected them, but those companies are now feeling the
effects, since those workers were also customers.
Customers need jobs. Your ****ing in home waters analogy was apt.
Short-term profits, long-term hurt.
That's where we are.
The blue collar union stuff was with U.S. Steel, IH, Merchant Marine,
and UPS. And some other non-union, good and bad.
All gone except UPS. They make it work.
Don't know if I mentioned my steel frame gazebo collapsed from the
snow load last winter. Bit the bullet and ordered a new one.
I saw online it was out for delivery yesterday from the Northbrook hub
- where I worked while in college - and was wondering if the package
car driver had, or would need a hand truck. The package is 75 lbs.
So the dogs start barking, and I go to help the guy get it in.
I opened the front door and he's already running up the steps with the
package tucked under one arm.
GO UPS TEAMSTERS!!

However, I have quite a bit of experience interfacing with many who do.
Most were technical or engineering based companies, so maybe there is a
fault in my opinion, but with very few exceptions, everyone I've dealt with
from lab techs, engineers, middle management and occasionally to top
management were all very satisfied and felt fully employed for their
different backgrounds, educational levels and experience. There was pride
in the company and there was a team atmosphere. The few companies that I
sensed disgruntled employees where the ones most closely linked to the
government via federal (military) contracts and in those with strong unions.

The worst (union wise) was McDonnell Douglas, Federal Systems Division in
St. Louis. I cannot, for the life of me, understand how that division got
anything done.

That seems a bit strange, huh? In my world, companies with big federal
contracts and who were unionized had the worst moral and the most bitching
and complaining.

Maybe, maybe not. Company culture and employee satisfaction is often
hard to ken unless you're on the inside. Though I was disgusted with
the management policies of the company I retired from, it didn't
affect my work, and few knew it.
Wouldn't be prudent.
And no way an outsider would know.
Unprofessional to bitch about your employer.
Then there are purely selfish interests.
I've got a chunk of retirement money I'll take as a lump sum in a
couple years. Won't knock the company by name until then.
They still got my money.
Besides, things change fast, and maybe some of those happy guys you
talked to are now out of work.
Anyway, the bottom line for a healthy economy is jobs.
It's going to be interesting to see if Obama get's it, and how he goes
about it.
Whatever happens, there will be plenty of squawking.
Nature of that beast that's called politics.
Maybe I should do 2 beers today. Yeah.

--Vic

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...

Whatever happens, there will be plenty of squawking.
Nature of that beast that's called politics.
Maybe I should do 2 beers today. Yeah.

--Vic

Please. It may clear your mind. :-)

Eisboch

On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 18:38:45 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Vic Smith" wrote in message
.. .

Whatever happens, there will be plenty of squawking.
Nature of that beast that's called politics.
Maybe I should do 2 beers today. Yeah.

--Vic

Please. It may clear your mind. :-)

Eisboch

In that case you should both have two.

Eisboch wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:49:13 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 14:03:56 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


I'll stick my nose in. I think by "investing" Frogwatch was
referring
to
the entrepreneurial spirit of creating, building and hopefully
succeeding
as
a business.



What about bringing in some Mexicans to do that?
Might work.
They do pretty well with food service, construction, lawn care, etc.
Hustlers.
They can bring in some Indians, Chinamen and Ruskies for the
engineering parts.
Good engineers, don't want much pay, and don't whine all the time.
Hell, I ran a crew at the last big business I worked for.
The policy was to toss Iraq vet resumes in the garbage, and hire
foreigners. Fortune 100, doing domestic business only.
If Froggy gets hungry enough they might hire him on too.
You surely don't think America has a lock on entrepreneurs?

--Vic


I don't think I said or implied that.
Have another beer.

Nah, pretty much no more than one a day anymore.
Whether you directly implied it or not, it has been implied
here that there is a "special class" of Americans that everybody
depends on, and deserve special favors.
Sorry, America is a team.
Much of big business doesn't see it that way.
If the team falls apart, the coaches are out of a job too.
If you think foreign workers are fine, then so are foreign coaches.
That's just how it works, IMO.
Sorry for my patriotism. I know it offends some.
And I'm not criticizing any of your business practices, but your
defense of big business without much qualification about how
globalistic practice damages America.
Here's a capitalist that seems to have his head screwed on straight.
http://www.reuters.com/article/busin...busine ssNews


We all know that business is the engine of the economy.
But the coach needs the team as much as the reverse.
The question is how business and America will work as a team.
We will remain a free market, but as I suggested in another post,
unless business satisfies the people, it will be molded to their will.
That will all work itself out naturally.
Ain't it great?

--Vic


I may be talking out of my hat because I've never worked for a "big
business".
However, I have quite a bit of experience interfacing with many who do.
Most were technical or engineering based companies, so maybe there is a
fault in my opinion, but with very few exceptions, everyone I've dealt
with from lab techs, engineers, middle management and occasionally to
top management were all very satisfied and felt fully employed for their
different backgrounds, educational levels and experience. There was
pride in the company and there was a team atmosphere. The few
companies that I sensed disgruntled employees where the ones most
closely linked to the government via federal (military) contracts and in
those with strong unions.

The worst (union wise) was McDonnell Douglas, Federal Systems Division
in St. Louis. I cannot, for the life of me, understand how that
division got anything done.

That seems a bit strange, huh? In my world, companies with big federal
contracts and who were unionized had the worst moral and the most
bitching and complaining.

Eisboch



Yeah, it's like when I worked in the Teamsters Union.. Back in the early
80's it made me sick to hear forklift operators and floor sweepers
crying about their lot... Working a clean 40 a week for over $20 bucks
an hour, vacations, full benefits package, retirement gold etc...
Remember these were guys doing a job trained monkeys could do, not the
highly skilled workers WAFA always seems to cater to.

Oh Harry, don't bother responding, I won't see it anyway.. Hopefully
nobody (not filtered) will regurgitate it.. snerk

JustWait wrote:
Eisboch wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:49:13 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 14:03:56 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


I'll stick my nose in. I think by "investing" Frogwatch was
referring
to
the entrepreneurial spirit of creating, building and hopefully
succeeding
as
a business.



What about bringing in some Mexicans to do that?
Might work.
They do pretty well with food service, construction, lawn care, etc.
Hustlers.
They can bring in some Indians, Chinamen and Ruskies for the
engineering parts.
Good engineers, don't want much pay, and don't whine all the time.
Hell, I ran a crew at the last big business I worked for.
The policy was to toss Iraq vet resumes in the garbage, and hire
foreigners. Fortune 100, doing domestic business only.
If Froggy gets hungry enough they might hire him on too.
You surely don't think America has a lock on entrepreneurs?

--Vic


I don't think I said or implied that.
Have another beer.

Nah, pretty much no more than one a day anymore.
Whether you directly implied it or not, it has been implied
here that there is a "special class" of Americans that everybody
depends on, and deserve special favors.
Sorry, America is a team.
Much of big business doesn't see it that way.
If the team falls apart, the coaches are out of a job too.
If you think foreign workers are fine, then so are foreign coaches.
That's just how it works, IMO.
Sorry for my patriotism. I know it offends some.
And I'm not criticizing any of your business practices, but your
defense of big business without much qualification about how
globalistic practice damages America.
Here's a capitalist that seems to have his head screwed on straight.
http://www.reuters.com/article/busin...busine ssNews


We all know that business is the engine of the economy.
But the coach needs the team as much as the reverse.
The question is how business and America will work as a team.
We will remain a free market, but as I suggested in another post,
unless business satisfies the people, it will be molded to their will.
That will all work itself out naturally.
Ain't it great?

--Vic


I may be talking out of my hat because I've never worked for a "big
business".
However, I have quite a bit of experience interfacing with many who do.
Most were technical or engineering based companies, so maybe there is
a fault in my opinion, but with very few exceptions, everyone I've
dealt with from lab techs, engineers, middle management and
occasionally to top management were all very satisfied and felt fully
employed for their different backgrounds, educational levels and
experience. There was pride in the company and there was a team
atmosphere. The few companies that I sensed disgruntled employees
where the ones most closely linked to the government via federal
(military) contracts and in those with strong unions.

The worst (union wise) was McDonnell Douglas, Federal Systems
Division in St. Louis. I cannot, for the life of me, understand how
that division got anything done.

That seems a bit strange, huh? In my world, companies with big
federal contracts and who were unionized had the worst moral and the
most bitching and complaining.

Eisboch



Yeah, it's like when I worked in the Teamsters Union.. Back in the early
80's it made me sick to hear forklift operators and floor sweepers
crying about their lot... Working a clean 40 a week for over $20 bucks
an hour, vacations, full benefits package, retirement gold etc...
Remember these were guys doing a job trained monkeys could do, not the
highly skilled workers WAFA always seems to cater to.

Oh Harry, don't bother responding, I won't see it anyway.. Hopefully
nobody (not filtered) will regurgitate it.. snerk

Wait a minute...you're a trained monkey and you couldn't hold down a job
there, right? Right.

On Mon, 06 Jul 2009 10:36:57 -0400, HK wrote:

JustWait wrote:
Eisboch wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:49:13 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 14:03:56 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


I'll stick my nose in. I think by "investing" Frogwatch was
referring
to
the entrepreneurial spirit of creating, building and hopefully
succeeding
as
a business.



What about bringing in some Mexicans to do that?
Might work.
They do pretty well with food service, construction, lawn care, etc.
Hustlers.
They can bring in some Indians, Chinamen and Ruskies for the
engineering parts.
Good engineers, don't want much pay, and don't whine all the time.
Hell, I ran a crew at the last big business I worked for.
The policy was to toss Iraq vet resumes in the garbage, and hire
foreigners. Fortune 100, doing domestic business only.
If Froggy gets hungry enough they might hire him on too.
You surely don't think America has a lock on entrepreneurs?

--Vic


I don't think I said or implied that.
Have another beer.

Nah, pretty much no more than one a day anymore.
Whether you directly implied it or not, it has been implied
here that there is a "special class" of Americans that everybody
depends on, and deserve special favors.
Sorry, America is a team.
Much of big business doesn't see it that way.
If the team falls apart, the coaches are out of a job too.
If you think foreign workers are fine, then so are foreign coaches.
That's just how it works, IMO.
Sorry for my patriotism. I know it offends some.
And I'm not criticizing any of your business practices, but your
defense of big business without much qualification about how
globalistic practice damages America.
Here's a capitalist that seems to have his head screwed on straight.
http://www.reuters.com/article/busin...busine ssNews


We all know that business is the engine of the economy.
But the coach needs the team as much as the reverse.
The question is how business and America will work as a team.
We will remain a free market, but as I suggested in another post,
unless business satisfies the people, it will be molded to their will.
That will all work itself out naturally.
Ain't it great?

--Vic


I may be talking out of my hat because I've never worked for a "big
business".
However, I have quite a bit of experience interfacing with many who do.
Most were technical or engineering based companies, so maybe there is
a fault in my opinion, but with very few exceptions, everyone I've
dealt with from lab techs, engineers, middle management and
occasionally to top management were all very satisfied and felt fully
employed for their different backgrounds, educational levels and
experience. There was pride in the company and there was a team
atmosphere. The few companies that I sensed disgruntled employees
where the ones most closely linked to the government via federal
(military) contracts and in those with strong unions.

The worst (union wise) was McDonnell Douglas, Federal Systems
Division in St. Louis. I cannot, for the life of me, understand how
that division got anything done.

That seems a bit strange, huh? In my world, companies with big
federal contracts and who were unionized had the worst moral and the
most bitching and complaining.

Eisboch



Yeah, it's like when I worked in the Teamsters Union.. Back in the early
80's it made me sick to hear forklift operators and floor sweepers
crying about their lot... Working a clean 40 a week for over $20 bucks
an hour, vacations, full benefits package, retirement gold etc...
Remember these were guys doing a job trained monkeys could do, not the
highly skilled workers WAFA always seems to cater to.

Oh Harry, don't bother responding, I won't see it anyway.. Hopefully
nobody (not filtered) will regurgitate it.. snerk

Wait a minute...you're a trained monkey and you couldn't hold down a job
there, right? Right.

I expect he flunked out of an apprenticeship.

jps wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jul 2009 10:36:57 -0400, HK wrote:

JustWait wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:49:13 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 14:03:56 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:

I'll stick my nose in. I think by "investing" Frogwatch was
referring
to
the entrepreneurial spirit of creating, building and hopefully
succeeding
as
a business.


What about bringing in some Mexicans to do that?
Might work.
They do pretty well with food service, construction, lawn care, etc.
Hustlers.
They can bring in some Indians, Chinamen and Ruskies for the
engineering parts.
Good engineers, don't want much pay, and don't whine all the time.
Hell, I ran a crew at the last big business I worked for.
The policy was to toss Iraq vet resumes in the garbage, and hire
foreigners. Fortune 100, doing domestic business only.
If Froggy gets hungry enough they might hire him on too.
You surely don't think America has a lock on entrepreneurs?

--Vic

I don't think I said or implied that.
Have another beer.

Nah, pretty much no more than one a day anymore.
Whether you directly implied it or not, it has been implied
here that there is a "special class" of Americans that everybody
depends on, and deserve special favors.
Sorry, America is a team.
Much of big business doesn't see it that way.
If the team falls apart, the coaches are out of a job too.
If you think foreign workers are fine, then so are foreign coaches.
That's just how it works, IMO.
Sorry for my patriotism. I know it offends some.
And I'm not criticizing any of your business practices, but your
defense of big business without much qualification about how
globalistic practice damages America.
Here's a capitalist that seems to have his head screwed on straight.
http://www.reuters.com/article/busin...busine ssNews


We all know that business is the engine of the economy.
But the coach needs the team as much as the reverse.
The question is how business and America will work as a team.
We will remain a free market, but as I suggested in another post,
unless business satisfies the people, it will be molded to their will.
That will all work itself out naturally.
Ain't it great?

--Vic

I may be talking out of my hat because I've never worked for a "big
business".
However, I have quite a bit of experience interfacing with many who do.
Most were technical or engineering based companies, so maybe there is
a fault in my opinion, but with very few exceptions, everyone I've
dealt with from lab techs, engineers, middle management and
occasionally to top management were all very satisfied and felt fully
employed for their different backgrounds, educational levels and
experience. There was pride in the company and there was a team
atmosphere. The few companies that I sensed disgruntled employees
where the ones most closely linked to the government via federal
(military) contracts and in those with strong unions.

The worst (union wise) was McDonnell Douglas, Federal Systems
Division in St. Louis. I cannot, for the life of me, understand how
that division got anything done.

That seems a bit strange, huh? In my world, companies with big
federal contracts and who were unionized had the worst moral and the
most bitching and complaining.

Eisboch


Yeah, it's like when I worked in the Teamsters Union.. Back in the early
80's it made me sick to hear forklift operators and floor sweepers
crying about their lot... Working a clean 40 a week for over $20 bucks
an hour, vacations, full benefits package, retirement gold etc...
Remember these were guys doing a job trained monkeys could do, not the
highly skilled workers WAFA always seems to cater to.

Oh Harry, don't bother responding, I won't see it anyway.. Hopefully
nobody (not filtered) will regurgitate it.. snerk
Wait a minute...you're a trained monkey and you couldn't hold down a job
there, right? Right.

I expect he flunked out of an apprenticeship.


You want to know something really funny? As I stated previously, most of
my summer jobs while I went to college were "arranged" by my father with
his buddies in the labor movement. One summer right after high school,
I got a job as a "helper" through the Teamsters Union at the Shick Razor
Company in Milford. Dunno if it is still there. Anyway, I spent half the
summer helping drivers load their 40' trucks with boxes of merch, and
then one of the teamsters took my under his wing and taught me how to
*safely* drive a forklift in the plant and onto the loading dock. It was
a damned good job, and I really appreciated it. It was my second summer
job while I was at college. My first was as a helper at Bigelow Boiler
in New Haven, cleaning out older boilers brought in for refurbishing. My
final year with a "union" summer job was back to the loading dock at the
Hull's Export Beer company in New Haven. Another teamsters' job. Great
work, all of them, and terrific guys with whom to work.
None of them were anything like justhate. *He* would have had an
"accident" after the first two weeks.