What we need is a better boat building material than marine ply/epoxy
and glass. I have no problem with epoxy and glass and the combo with
marine ply yields a far better boat than one can buy in a production
boat but I am not happy with marine ply.
Basically, marine ply is really not much better than standard ply.
The only major diff is that there are fewer voids and even that is
questionable. Some of it I have seen simply has the voids (knots)
filled with some sort of non-structural resin that does not add
strength.
I'd like to see a true high tech wood composite. Maybe bamboo
alternating with carbon fiber/ epoxy and then bamboo running at right
angles to the first. This would be lighter and stronger than marine
ply. On the outsides it would be skinned with a lighter glass than we
use for boats now like my Tolman.

Frogwatch wrote:
What we need is a better boat building material than marine ply/epoxy
and glass. I have no problem with epoxy and glass and the combo with
marine ply yields a far better boat than one can buy in a production
boat but I am not happy with marine ply.
Basically, marine ply is really not much better than standard ply.
The only major diff is that there are fewer voids and even that is
questionable. Some of it I have seen simply has the voids (knots)
filled with some sort of non-structural resin that does not add
strength.
I'd like to see a true high tech wood composite. Maybe bamboo
alternating with carbon fiber/ epoxy and then bamboo running at right
angles to the first. This would be lighter and stronger than marine
ply. On the outsides it would be skinned with a lighter glass than we
use for boats now like my Tolman.



"I have no problem with epoxy and glass and the combo with
marine ply yields a far better boat than one can buy in a production
boat..."

Care to qualify that a bit, because taken at face value, it's just plain
bizarre. What's wrong with all-glass, or for above the waterline, a foam
sandwich covered by glass that's vacuum bagged?

And for a superior boat building material? Welded plate aluminum.

Now, if you are talking strictly smaller homebrew boats without much in
the way of compound curves, glass over ply is just fine. Bamboo? Carbon
fiber?

On Jul 1, 1:20*pm, HK wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
What we need is a better boat building material than marine ply/epoxy
and glass. *I have no problem with epoxy and glass and the combo with
marine ply yields a far better boat than one can buy in a production
boat but I am not happy with marine ply.
Basically, marine ply is really not much better than standard ply.
The only major diff is that there are fewer voids and even that is
questionable. *Some of it I have seen simply has the voids (knots)
filled with some sort of non-structural resin that does not add
strength.
I'd like to see a true high tech wood composite. *Maybe bamboo
alternating with carbon fiber/ epoxy and then bamboo running at right
angles to the first. *This would be lighter and stronger than marine
ply. *On the outsides it would be skinned with a lighter glass than we
use for boats now like my Tolman.

"I have no problem with epoxy and glass and the combo with
* marine ply yields a far better boat than one can buy in a production
* boat..."

Care to qualify that a bit, because taken at face value, it's just plain
bizarre. What's wrong with all-glass, or for above the waterline, a foam
sandwich covered by glass that's vacuum bagged?

And for a superior boat building material? Welded plate aluminum.

Now, if you are talking strictly smaller homebrew boats without much in
the way of compound curves, glass over ply is just fine. Bamboo? Carbon
fiber?

As an alleged mechanical engineer, what inherent problems do you see
with using carbon fiber? How can these problems be solved?

On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:20:05 -0400, HK wrote:

And for a superior boat building material? Welded plate aluminum.

It's not bad with rivets. All airplanes are riveted, none welded.

Casady

"Gene" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 06:41:10 -0500, Richard Casady
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:20:05 -0400, HK wrote:

And for a superior boat building material? Welded plate aluminum.

It's not bad with rivets. All airplanes are riveted, none welded.

Casady

(1) Rivets and boats are as big a PITA as Integral Fuel Tanks and
Rivets.... unless you have a fondness for corrosion and leaks....

(2) Wrong.
http://www.eclipseaviation.com/compa...nnovations.php

--

Forté Agent 5.00 Build 1171

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by
the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do.
So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover." - Unknown

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net...at/my_boat.htm



Interesting welding method. Lastest AWS journal has an article where they
now stir weld steel pipe and plate.

On Jul 2, 11:35*am, Gene wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 06:41:10 -0500, Richard Casady

wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:20:05 -0400, HK wrote:

And for a superior boat building material? Welded plate aluminum.

It's not bad with rivets. All airplanes are riveted, none welded.

Casady

(1) Rivets and boats are as big a PITA as Integral Fuel Tanks and
Rivets.... unless you have a fondness for corrosion and leaks....

(2) Wrong.http://www.eclipseaviation.com/compa...nnovations.php

--

Forté Agent 5.00 Build 1171

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by
the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do.
So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover." * - Unknown

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepagehttp://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm

One of the troubles with aluminum is it's fracturability. You can take
a piece of aluminum bar stock, say 1/4"x2", put it in a vice, score it
across somewhere with a razor knife, using light pressure, and if you
start flexing it, that's where it'll break, and it'll be a clean break
right where you scored.

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:45:23 -0700 (PDT), Loogypicker penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

|On Jul 2, 11:35 am, Gene wrote:
| On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 06:41:10 -0500, Richard Casady
|
| wrote:
| On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:20:05 -0400, HK wrote:
|
| And for a superior boat building material? Welded plate aluminum.
|
| It's not bad with rivets. All airplanes are riveted, none welded.
|
| Casady
|
| (1) Rivets and boats are as big a PITA as Integral Fuel Tanks and
| Rivets.... unless you have a fondness for corrosion and leaks....
|
| (2) Wrong.http://www.eclipseaviation.com/compa...nnovations.php
|
| --
|
| Forté Agent 5.00 Build 1171
|
| "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by
| the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do.
| So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor.
| Catch the trade winds in your sails.
| Explore. Dream. Discover." - Unknown
|
| Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.
|
|
Homepagehttp://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm
|
|One of the troubles with aluminum is it's fracturability. You can take
|a piece of aluminum bar stock, say 1/4"x2", put it in a vice, score it
|across somewhere with a razor knife, using light pressure, and if you
|start flexing it, that's where it'll break, and it'll be a clean break
|right where you scored.

That is so predictable, I don't allow my students to have a scriber in
their tool box.....

--
Agent 5.00 Build 1171

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/



The one major problem with Aluminum is not really a B-10 rating, or whatever
it is called now. As long as you keep steel out of the plastic range, it
will not fracture like that. Aluminum does not have that ability. Just
design so the aluminum is not flexing all the time.

On Jul 2, 3:56*pm, Gene Kearns
wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:45:23 -0700 (PDT), Loogypicker penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

|On Jul 2, 11:35*am, Gene wrote:
| On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 06:41:10 -0500, Richard Casady
|| wrote:

| On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:20:05 -0400, HK wrote:
|
| And for a superior boat building material? Welded plate aluminum.
|
| It's not bad with rivets. All airplanes are riveted, none welded.
|
| Casady
|
| (1) Rivets and boats are as big a PITA as Integral Fuel Tanks and
| Rivets.... unless you have a fondness for corrosion and leaks....
|
| (2) Wrong.http://www.eclipseaviation.com/compa...nnovations.php
|
| --
|
| Forté Agent 5.00 Build 1171
|
| "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by
| the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do.
| So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor.
| Catch the trade winds in your sails.
| Explore. Dream. Discover." * - Unknown
|
| Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.
|
| Homepagehttp://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm
|
|One of the troubles with aluminum is it's fracturability. You can take
|a piece of aluminum bar stock, say 1/4"x2", put it in a vice, score it
|across somewhere with a razor knife, using light pressure, and if you
|start flexing it, that's where it'll break, and it'll be a clean break
|right where you scored.

That is so predictable, I don't allow my students to have a scriber in
their tool box.....

--

Yep. When my uncle was working on aluminum airframes, they were VERY
careful to not even scratch the pieces if they were replacing.

On Jul 3, 8:42*am, Loogypicker wrote:
On Jul 2, 3:56*pm, Gene Kearns
wrote:



On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:45:23 -0700 (PDT), Loogypicker penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

|On Jul 2, 11:35*am, Gene wrote:
| On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 06:41:10 -0500, Richard Casady
|| wrote:

| On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:20:05 -0400, HK wrote:
|
| And for a superior boat building material? Welded plate aluminum.
|
| It's not bad with rivets. All airplanes are riveted, none welded.
|
| Casady
|
| (1) Rivets and boats are as big a PITA as Integral Fuel Tanks and
| Rivets.... unless you have a fondness for corrosion and leaks....
|
| (2) Wrong.http://www.eclipseaviation.com/compa...nnovations.php
|
| --
|
| Forté Agent 5.00 Build 1171
|
| "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by
| the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do.
| So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor.
| Catch the trade winds in your sails.
| Explore. Dream. Discover." * - Unknown
|
| Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.
|
| Homepagehttp://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm
|
|One of the troubles with aluminum is it's fracturability. You can take
|a piece of aluminum bar stock, say 1/4"x2", put it in a vice, score it
|across somewhere with a razor knife, using light pressure, and if you
|start flexing it, that's where it'll break, and it'll be a clean break
|right where you scored.

That is so predictable, I don't allow my students to have a scriber in
their tool box.....

--

Yep. When my uncle was working on aluminum airframes, they were VERY
careful to not even scratch the pieces if they were replacing.

Aluminum is a great material for boats sometimes. My old 18' Grumman
canoe is 47 yrs old and in great shape. It weighs much less than most
smaller boats. Whenever I go with kayakers, they are always amazed
the humongous canoe weighs so little. It did require repair once when
it got lodge under a tree on a flooded river and the Al tore. Got it
welded and it is almost as good as new.

On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:09:24 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I'd like to see a true high tech wood composite. Maybe bamboo
alternating with carbon fiber/ epoxy and then bamboo running at right
angles to the first. This would be lighter and stronger than marine
ply. On the outsides it would be skinned with a lighter glass than we
use for boats now like my Tolman.

It's called cold molding.

http://www.cwb.org/cold-molded-boat-building-2009

Been around for years.