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Old June 28th 09, 04:24 PM posted to alt.boats,alt.rec.boats,rec.boats
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Default So Sad:Mercury Marine joins industries Dirty Dozen

..... the high incidence of new model Mercruiser starters early
failure is endemic to the pervasive decline in business management
ethics and general skill. If these folks do not get on board with
Edwards Deming precepts...every body loses.....country .....customers
and labor.

My son in law had to remove his motor starter after 150 hours of
little use. I saw it. I could not believe the inferior construction
of the brush holders. Tin parts installed in a tin can design. I
heard rumors Mallory is running full tilt as people wise up to
Mercury's inferior OEM network and then switch to Mallory. I hope
that is fact. But the cost of labor to remove and replace an I/O
starter is huge as many of you know. .

Mercruiser has become elligible for inclusion in the most
destructively managed U.S. corporations... the dirty dozen. I wonder
if Bombardier will fix OMC and then try to straighten out Mercury
Marine? If only Kiekhaefer could rise from the grave.

Unbridled greed and no respect for their customers, dominates too
many American businesses and institutions. Mercury Marine has joined
that nefarious club.... and boaters have to suffer accordingly.

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Old June 28th 09, 04:36 PM posted to alt.boats,alt.rec.boats,rec.boats
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Default So Sad:Mercury Marine joins industries Dirty Dozen


"TinyTim" wrote in message
...
.... the high incidence of new model Mercruiser starters early
failure is endemic to the pervasive decline in business management
ethics and general skill. If these folks do not get on board with
Edwards Deming precepts...every body loses.....country .....customers
and labor.

My son in law had to remove his motor starter after 150 hours of
little use. I saw it. I could not believe the inferior construction
of the brush holders. Tin parts installed in a tin can design. I
heard rumors Mallory is running full tilt as people wise up to
Mercury's inferior OEM network and then switch to Mallory. I hope
that is fact. But the cost of labor to remove and replace an I/O
starter is huge as many of you know. .

Mercruiser has become elligible for inclusion in the most
destructively managed U.S. corporations... the dirty dozen. I wonder
if Bombardier will fix OMC and then try to straighten out Mercury
Marine? If only Kiekhaefer could rise from the grave.

Unbridled greed and no respect for their customers, dominates too
many American businesses and institutions. Mercury Marine has joined
that nefarious club.... and boaters have to suffer accordingly.


I would not count on Bombardier for much, they are already on Canadian
corporate welfare. Better make that a bakers dozen.

I figure Yamaha or Suzuki for my outboard.


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Old June 28th 09, 04:39 PM posted to alt.boats,alt.rec.boats,rec.boats
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Default So Sad:Mercury Marine joins industries Dirty Dozen

TinyTim wrote:
.... the high incidence of new model Mercruiser starters early
failure is endemic to the pervasive decline in business management
ethics and general skill. If these folks do not get on board with
Edwards Deming precepts...every body loses.....country .....customers
and labor.

My son in law had to remove his motor starter after 150 hours of
little use. I saw it. I could not believe the inferior construction
of the brush holders. Tin parts installed in a tin can design. I
heard rumors Mallory is running full tilt as people wise up to
Mercury's inferior OEM network and then switch to Mallory. I hope
that is fact. But the cost of labor to remove and replace an I/O
starter is huge as many of you know. .

Mercruiser has become elligible for inclusion in the most
destructively managed U.S. corporations... the dirty dozen. I wonder
if Bombardier will fix OMC and then try to straighten out Mercury
Marine? If only Kiekhaefer could rise from the grave.

Unbridled greed and no respect for their customers, dominates too
many American businesses and institutions. Mercury Marine has joined
that nefarious club.... and boaters have to suffer accordingly.


Those are the same high torque starters that come with the GM engines.
Mercury marine doesn't make modifications to them as they are already
ignition protected.
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Old June 28th 09, 04:47 PM posted to alt.boats,alt.rec.boats,rec.boats
HK HK is offline
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Default So Sad:Mercury Marine joins industries Dirty Dozen

Canuck57 wrote:
"TinyTim" wrote in message
...
.... the high incidence of new model Mercruiser starters early
failure is endemic to the pervasive decline in business management
ethics and general skill. If these folks do not get on board with
Edwards Deming precepts...every body loses.....country .....customers
and labor.

My son in law had to remove his motor starter after 150 hours of
little use. I saw it. I could not believe the inferior construction
of the brush holders. Tin parts installed in a tin can design. I
heard rumors Mallory is running full tilt as people wise up to
Mercury's inferior OEM network and then switch to Mallory. I hope
that is fact. But the cost of labor to remove and replace an I/O
starter is huge as many of you know. .

Mercruiser has become elligible for inclusion in the most
destructively managed U.S. corporations... the dirty dozen. I wonder
if Bombardier will fix OMC and then try to straighten out Mercury
Marine? If only Kiekhaefer could rise from the grave.

Unbridled greed and no respect for their customers, dominates too
many American businesses and institutions. Mercury Marine has joined
that nefarious club.... and boaters have to suffer accordingly.


I would not count on Bombardier for much, they are already on Canadian
corporate welfare. Better make that a bakers dozen.

I figure Yamaha or Suzuki for my outboard.



Wow...we agree on something.
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Old June 28th 09, 05:35 PM posted to rec.boats
Tim Tim is offline
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Default So Sad:Mercury Marine joins industries Dirty Dozen

On Jun 28, 10:24*am, TinyTim wrote:
.... the high incidence of new model Mercruiser starters *early
failure *is endemic to the pervasive *decline in business management
ethics and general skill. *If these folks do not get on board with
Edwards Deming precepts...every body loses.....country .....customers
and labor. *

My son in law had to remove his motor starter after 150 hours of
little use. *I saw it. *I could not believe the inferior construction
of the brush holders. Tin parts installed in a tin can design. *I
heard rumors Mallory is running full tilt *as people wise up to
Mercury's inferior OEM network and *then switch to Mallory. I hope
that is fact. *But the cost of labor to remove and replace an I/O
starter is huge as many of you know. .


Which year of starters are you refering to?
usually the early (Delco 8 & 10 MT) marine units were heavy but cheap
to fix. then later on the gear reductions came out. The first models
made in Korea were the same as on an 80's Chevy s-10 and weren't much
to brag about concerning power, and repairs were costly like the rest
of the unit. Now the new series is little gear reduction which is a
Mitsubishi knock-off which is made in India for pity sakes.

But the Delco PM/260 is the way to go. they work well on anything from
a 3.0 up to a GM 503 CID. Both automotive and marine.

But regardless, ALL starters are prone to humidity and a lot of people
will let the bilge fill up to where the starter motor is baptized even
for a moment, then the corrosion begins. But even if kept dry, just
the humidity in the bilge will keep the starter damp and the rust
starts happening.

BTW, you say people are switching to Mallory? Mallory what? Mallory
doesn't make a starter.



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Old June 28th 09, 05:45 PM posted to rec.boats
HK HK is offline
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Posts: 13,347
Default So Sad:Mercury Marine joins industries Dirty Dozen

Tim wrote:
On Jun 28, 10:24 am, TinyTim wrote:
.... the high incidence of new model Mercruiser starters early
failure is endemic to the pervasive decline in business management
ethics and general skill. If these folks do not get on board with
Edwards Deming precepts...every body loses.....country .....customers
and labor.

My son in law had to remove his motor starter after 150 hours of
little use. I saw it. I could not believe the inferior construction
of the brush holders. Tin parts installed in a tin can design. I
heard rumors Mallory is running full tilt as people wise up to
Mercury's inferior OEM network and then switch to Mallory. I hope
that is fact. But the cost of labor to remove and replace an I/O
starter is huge as many of you know. .


Which year of starters are you refering to?
usually the early (Delco 8 & 10 MT) marine units were heavy but cheap
to fix. then later on the gear reductions came out. The first models
made in Korea were the same as on an 80's Chevy s-10 and weren't much
to brag about concerning power, and repairs were costly like the rest
of the unit. Now the new series is little gear reduction which is a
Mitsubishi knock-off which is made in India for pity sakes.

But the Delco PM/260 is the way to go. they work well on anything from
a 3.0 up to a GM 503 CID. Both automotive and marine.

But regardless, ALL starters are prone to humidity and a lot of people
will let the bilge fill up to where the starter motor is baptized even
for a moment, then the corrosion begins. But even if kept dry, just
the humidity in the bilge will keep the starter damp and the rust
starts happening.

BTW, you say people are switching to Mallory? Mallory what? Mallory
doesn't make a starter.



Well, maybe, maybe no:

http://www.iboats.com/Mallory_Starte...view_id.365879


Certainly is a dangerous position. A few weeks ago, a poster here
claimed that Husqvarna "never made" the lawn/garden tractor model I own.
He insisted. He was certain.

He was...wrong.
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Old June 28th 09, 06:01 PM posted to rec.boats
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Posts: 8,635
Default So Sad:Mercury Marine joins industries Dirty Dozen

On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:35:02 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Jun 28, 10:24*am, TinyTim wrote:
.... the high incidence of new model Mercruiser starters *early
failure *is endemic to the pervasive *decline in business management
ethics and general skill. *If these folks do not get on board with
Edwards Deming precepts...every body loses.....country .....customers
and labor. *

My son in law had to remove his motor starter after 150 hours of
little use. *I saw it. *I could not believe the inferior construction
of the brush holders. Tin parts installed in a tin can design. *I
heard rumors Mallory is running full tilt *as people wise up to
Mercury's inferior OEM network and *then switch to Mallory. I hope
that is fact. *But the cost of labor to remove and replace an I/O
starter is huge as many of you know. .


Which year of starters are you refering to?
usually the early (Delco 8 & 10 MT) marine units were heavy but cheap
to fix. then later on the gear reductions came out. The first models
made in Korea were the same as on an 80's Chevy s-10 and weren't much
to brag about concerning power, and repairs were costly like the rest
of the unit. Now the new series is little gear reduction which is a
Mitsubishi knock-off which is made in India for pity sakes.

But the Delco PM/260 is the way to go. they work well on anything from
a 3.0 up to a GM 503 CID. Both automotive and marine.

But regardless, ALL starters are prone to humidity and a lot of people
will let the bilge fill up to where the starter motor is baptized even
for a moment, then the corrosion begins. But even if kept dry, just
the humidity in the bilge will keep the starter damp and the rust
starts happening.

BTW, you say people are switching to Mallory? Mallory what? Mallory
doesn't make a starter.


I hope he knows that you know a *lot* about starters and other
electric motors.

Maybe he'll consider this fair warning.

I'd hate for him to feel too badly.
--
John H

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant
that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it."
-- Thomas Sowell
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Old June 28th 09, 06:13 PM posted to rec.boats
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Default So Sad:Mercury Marine joins industries Dirty Dozen

HK wrote:
Tim wrote:
On Jun 28, 10:24 am, TinyTim wrote:
.... the high incidence of new model Mercruiser starters early
failure is endemic to the pervasive decline in business management
ethics and general skill. If these folks do not get on board with
Edwards Deming precepts...every body loses.....country .....customers
and labor.
My son in law had to remove his motor starter after 150 hours of
little use. I saw it. I could not believe the inferior construction
of the brush holders. Tin parts installed in a tin can design. I
heard rumors Mallory is running full tilt as people wise up to
Mercury's inferior OEM network and then switch to Mallory. I hope
that is fact. But the cost of labor to remove and replace an I/O
starter is huge as many of you know. .


Which year of starters are you refering to?
usually the early (Delco 8 & 10 MT) marine units were heavy but cheap
to fix. then later on the gear reductions came out. The first models
made in Korea were the same as on an 80's Chevy s-10 and weren't much
to brag about concerning power, and repairs were costly like the rest
of the unit. Now the new series is little gear reduction which is a
Mitsubishi knock-off which is made in India for pity sakes.

But the Delco PM/260 is the way to go. they work well on anything from
a 3.0 up to a GM 503 CID. Both automotive and marine.

But regardless, ALL starters are prone to humidity and a lot of people
will let the bilge fill up to where the starter motor is baptized even
for a moment, then the corrosion begins. But even if kept dry, just
the humidity in the bilge will keep the starter damp and the rust
starts happening.

BTW, you say people are switching to Mallory? Mallory what? Mallory
doesn't make a starter.



Well, maybe, maybe no:

http://www.iboats.com/Mallory_Starte...view_id.365879



Certainly is a dangerous position. A few weeks ago, a poster here
claimed that Husqvarna "never made" the lawn/garden tractor model I own.
He insisted. He was certain.

He was...wrong.


"A dangerous position". How so? You are more fun than a barrel of monkeys.
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Old June 28th 09, 06:21 PM posted to rec.boats
Tim Tim is offline
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Posts: 18,565
Default So Sad:Mercury Marine joins industries Dirty Dozen

On Jun 28, 11:45*am, HK wrote:
Tim wrote:
On Jun 28, 10:24 am, TinyTim wrote:
.... the high incidence of new model Mercruiser starters *early
failure *is endemic to the pervasive *decline in business management
ethics and general skill. *If these folks do not get on board with
Edwards Deming precepts...every body loses.....country .....customers
and labor. *


My son in law had to remove his motor starter after 150 hours of
little use. *I saw it. *I could not believe the inferior construction
of the brush holders. Tin parts installed in a tin can design. *I
heard rumors Mallory is running full tilt *as people wise up to
Mercury's inferior OEM network and *then switch to Mallory. I hope
that is fact. *But the cost of labor to remove and replace an I/O
starter is huge as many of you know. .


Which year of starters are you refering to?
usually the early *(Delco 8 & 10 MT) marine units were heavy but cheap
to fix. *then later on the gear reductions came out. The first models
made in Korea were the same as on an 80's Chevy s-10 and weren't much
to brag about concerning power, *and repairs were costly like the rest
of the unit. Now the new series is *little gear reduction which is a
Mitsubishi knock-off which is made in India for pity sakes.


But the Delco PM/260 is the way to go. they work well on anything from
a 3.0 up to a GM 503 CID. Both automotive and marine.


But regardless, ALL starters are prone to humidity and a lot of people
will let the bilge fill up to where the starter motor is baptized even
for a moment, then the corrosion begins. But even if kept dry, just
the humidity in the bilge will keep the starter damp and the rust
starts happening.


BTW, you say people are switching to Mallory? Mallory what? Mallory
doesn't make a starter.


Well, maybe, maybe no:

http://www.iboats.com/Mallory_Starte...dm/cart_id.066...

Certainly is a dangerous position. A few weeks ago, a poster here
claimed that Husqvarna "never made" the lawn/garden tractor model I own.
* He insisted. He was certain.

He was...wrong.


Harry, that starter is made in china and sold though various
suppliers, all it is , is marketed through Mallory.
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Old June 28th 09, 06:23 PM posted to rec.boats
Tim Tim is offline
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Posts: 18,565
Default So Sad:Mercury Marine joins industries Dirty Dozen

On Jun 28, 12:01*pm, John H wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:35:02 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:



On Jun 28, 10:24*am, TinyTim wrote:
.... the high incidence of new model Mercruiser starters *early
failure *is endemic to the pervasive *decline in business management
ethics and general skill. *If these folks do not get on board with
Edwards Deming precepts...every body loses.....country .....customers
and labor. *


My son in law had to remove his motor starter after 150 hours of
little use. *I saw it. *I could not believe the inferior construction
of the brush holders. Tin parts installed in a tin can design. *I
heard rumors Mallory is running full tilt *as people wise up to
Mercury's inferior OEM network and *then switch to Mallory. I hope
that is fact. *But the cost of labor to remove and replace an I/O
starter is huge as many of you know. .


Which year of starters are you refering to?
usually the early *(Delco 8 & 10 MT) marine units were heavy but cheap
to fix. *then later on the gear reductions came out. The first models
made in Korea were the same as on an 80's Chevy s-10 and weren't much
to brag about concerning power, *and repairs were costly like the rest
of the unit. Now the new series is *little gear reduction which is a
Mitsubishi knock-off which is made in India for pity sakes.


But the Delco PM/260 is the way to go. they work well on anything from
a 3.0 up to a GM 503 CID. Both automotive and marine.


But regardless, ALL starters are prone to humidity and a lot of people
will let the bilge fill up to where the starter motor is baptized even
for a moment, then the corrosion begins. But even if kept dry, just
the humidity in the bilge will keep the starter damp and the rust
starts happening.


BTW, you say people are switching to Mallory? Mallory what? Mallory
doesn't make a starter.


I hope he knows that you know a *lot* about starters and other
electric motors.

Maybe he'll consider this fair warning.

I'd hate for him to feel too badly.
--
John H

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant
that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it."
-- Thomas Sowell


Well, after almost 30 years of working on them daily , I would hope to
think I've learned something.

But I'm always open for suggestions...

?;^ )


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