On Jun 28, 6:16*pm, HK wrote:
Calif Bill wrote:
"Loogypicker" wrote in message
...
On Jun 28, 1:23 pm, Tim wrote:
On Jun 28, 12:01 pm, John H wrote:

On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:35:02 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:
On Jun 28, 10:24 am, TinyTim wrote:
.... the high incidence of new model Mercruiser starters early
failure is endemic to the pervasive decline in business management
ethics and general skill. If these folks do not get on board with
Edwards Deming precepts...every body loses.....country .....customers
and labor.
My son in law had to remove his motor starter after 150 hours of
little use. I saw it. I could not believe the inferior construction
of the brush holders. Tin parts installed in a tin can design. I
heard rumors Mallory is running full tilt as people wise up to
Mercury's inferior OEM network and then switch to Mallory. I hope
that is fact. But the cost of labor to remove and replace an I/O
starter is huge as many of you know. .
Which year of starters are you refering to?
usually the early (Delco 8 & 10 MT) marine units were heavy but cheap
to fix. then later on the gear reductions came out. The first models
made in Korea were the same as on an 80's Chevy s-10 and weren't much
to brag about concerning power, and repairs were costly like the rest
of the unit. Now the new series is little gear reduction which is a
Mitsubishi knock-off which is made in India for pity sakes.
But the Delco PM/260 is the way to go. they work well on anything from
a 3.0 up to a GM 503 CID. Both automotive and marine.
But regardless, ALL starters are prone to humidity and a lot of people
will let the bilge fill up to where the starter motor is baptized even
for a moment, then the corrosion begins. But even if kept dry, just
the humidity in the bilge will keep the starter damp and the rust
starts happening.
BTW, you say people are switching to Mallory? Mallory what? Mallory
doesn't make a starter.
I hope he knows that you know a *lot* about starters and other
electric motors.
Maybe he'll consider this fair warning.
I'd hate for him to feel too badly.
--
John H
"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant
that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it."
-- Thomas Sowell
Well, after almost 30 years of working on them daily , I would hope to
think I've learned something.

But I'm always open for suggestions...

?;^ )- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think Harry's father invented the electric starter.........

Harry's real father is Kettering?

If my father had invented the condom, and something like loogie
resulted, he would have started over.

Herr Krause.

If you're beloved father had invented a condom, especially one that
was worth a damn, then you wouldn't exist.

"HK" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"Loogypicker" wrote in message
...
On Jun 28, 1:23 pm, Tim wrote:
On Jun 28, 12:01 pm, John H wrote:





On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:35:02 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:
On Jun 28, 10:24 am, TinyTim wrote:
.... the high incidence of new model Mercruiser starters early
failure is endemic to the pervasive decline in business management
ethics and general skill. If these folks do not get on board with
Edwards Deming precepts...every body loses.....country .....customers
and labor.
My son in law had to remove his motor starter after 150 hours of
little use. I saw it. I could not believe the inferior construction
of the brush holders. Tin parts installed in a tin can design. I
heard rumors Mallory is running full tilt as people wise up to
Mercury's inferior OEM network and then switch to Mallory. I hope
that is fact. But the cost of labor to remove and replace an I/O
starter is huge as many of you know. .
Which year of starters are you refering to?
usually the early (Delco 8 & 10 MT) marine units were heavy but cheap
to fix. then later on the gear reductions came out. The first models
made in Korea were the same as on an 80's Chevy s-10 and weren't much
to brag about concerning power, and repairs were costly like the rest
of the unit. Now the new series is little gear reduction which is a
Mitsubishi knock-off which is made in India for pity sakes.
But the Delco PM/260 is the way to go. they work well on anything from
a 3.0 up to a GM 503 CID. Both automotive and marine.
But regardless, ALL starters are prone to humidity and a lot of people
will let the bilge fill up to where the starter motor is baptized even
for a moment, then the corrosion begins. But even if kept dry, just
the humidity in the bilge will keep the starter damp and the rust
starts happening.
BTW, you say people are switching to Mallory? Mallory what? Mallory
doesn't make a starter.
I hope he knows that you know a *lot* about starters and other
electric motors.
Maybe he'll consider this fair warning.
I'd hate for him to feel too badly.
--
John H
"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant
that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it."
-- Thomas Sowell
Well, after almost 30 years of working on them daily , I would hope to
think I've learned something.

But I'm always open for suggestions...

?;^ )- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think Harry's father invented the electric starter.........

Harry's real father is Kettering?


If my father had invented the condom, and something like loogie resulted,
he would have started over.

Start over?? I think he would have been sued by mankind.

Don White wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"Loogypicker" wrote in message
...
On Jun 28, 1:23 pm, Tim wrote:
On Jun 28, 12:01 pm, John H wrote:





On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:35:02 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:
On Jun 28, 10:24 am, TinyTim wrote:
.... the high incidence of new model Mercruiser starters early
failure is endemic to the pervasive decline in business management
ethics and general skill. If these folks do not get on board with
Edwards Deming precepts...every body loses.....country .....customers
and labor.
My son in law had to remove his motor starter after 150 hours of
little use. I saw it. I could not believe the inferior construction
of the brush holders. Tin parts installed in a tin can design. I
heard rumors Mallory is running full tilt as people wise up to
Mercury's inferior OEM network and then switch to Mallory. I hope
that is fact. But the cost of labor to remove and replace an I/O
starter is huge as many of you know. .
Which year of starters are you refering to?
usually the early (Delco 8 & 10 MT) marine units were heavy but cheap
to fix. then later on the gear reductions came out. The first models
made in Korea were the same as on an 80's Chevy s-10 and weren't much
to brag about concerning power, and repairs were costly like the rest
of the unit. Now the new series is little gear reduction which is a
Mitsubishi knock-off which is made in India for pity sakes.
But the Delco PM/260 is the way to go. they work well on anything from
a 3.0 up to a GM 503 CID. Both automotive and marine.
But regardless, ALL starters are prone to humidity and a lot of people
will let the bilge fill up to where the starter motor is baptized even
for a moment, then the corrosion begins. But even if kept dry, just
the humidity in the bilge will keep the starter damp and the rust
starts happening.
BTW, you say people are switching to Mallory? Mallory what? Mallory
doesn't make a starter.
I hope he knows that you know a *lot* about starters and other
electric motors.
Maybe he'll consider this fair warning.
I'd hate for him to feel too badly.
--
John H
"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant
that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it."
-- Thomas Sowell
Well, after almost 30 years of working on them daily , I would hope to
think I've learned something.

But I'm always open for suggestions...

?;^ )- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
I think Harry's father invented the electric starter.........

Harry's real father is Kettering?

If my father had invented the condom, and something like loogie resulted,
he would have started over.

Start over?? I think he would have been sued by mankind.




Sigh. You're right.

wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:57:58 -0400, HK wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:55:40 -0400, HK wrote:

Who makes
Evinrude? Not Evinrude. The brand name is just an asset bought on the
cheap.
I know the pre-bankruptsy Evinrude 4 strokes were Suzuki. The strange
thing is Suzuki has a fairly good name but the Evinrudes really
sucked. They had a 2 for 2 failure rate in the 2 neighbors I knew who
had them. Both had corrosion problems that led to catastrophic power
head failures.

'Zukes and Yamahas are the outboard power of choice, I think, with Mercs
third.

In the good old days, when my dad was a boat dealer, Evinrudes and
Johnsons had the best reps for corrosion resistance, and Mercs were a
distant third. Merc, my dad said, passed the OMC products in the mid to
late 1960's in that regard. I don't know if that was the case, but it
was my dad's opinion. I do know that Merc used a lot more aluminum in
the 1950s and 1960s than OMC...

The power head of most modern mercs are Yamaha anyway.

For real? I knew merc bought some 4 stroke powerheads...until it
developed its own.

On Jun 28, 10:24*am, TinyTim wrote:
.... the high incidence of new model Mercruiser starters *early
failure *is endemic to the pervasive *decline in business management
ethics and general skill. *If these folks do not get on board with
Edwards Deming precepts...every body loses.....country .....customers
and labor. *

My son in law had to remove his motor starter after 150 hours of
little use. *I saw it. *I could not believe the inferior construction
of the brush holders. Tin parts installed in a tin can design. *I
heard rumors Mallory is running full tilt *as people wise up to
Mercury's inferior OEM network and *then switch to Mallory. I hope
that is fact. *But the cost of labor to remove and replace an I/O
starter is huge as many of you know. .

Mercruiser has become elligible for inclusion in the most
destructively managed U.S. corporations... the dirty dozen. I wonder
if Bombardier will fix OMC and then try to straighten out Mercury
Marine? *If only Kiekhaefer could rise from the grave.

Unbridled greed and no respect for *their customers, *dominates too
many American businesses and institutions. * Mercury Marine has joined
that nefarious club.... and boaters have to suffer accordingly.

I believe the starter motor in question is one of these, and yes, they
are crap.

http://www.allpointsmarineco.com/view/8066/333339/

way over priced (to the consumer) and really slop-shoddy construction.
They copied a poor design and made it worse.


As cheap as these starters are built. Mercruiser is probably paying
the swami's as little as $19.99 on like a 30,000 piece contract.

"Hey! It made IT's warrenty, wadda you griping about, eh"

Penitenziagite!

"HK" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"Loogypicker" wrote in message
...
On Jun 28, 1:23 pm, Tim wrote:
On Jun 28, 12:01 pm, John H wrote:





On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:35:02 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:
On Jun 28, 10:24 am, TinyTim wrote:
.... the high incidence of new model Mercruiser starters early
failure is endemic to the pervasive decline in business management
ethics and general skill. If these folks do not get on board with
Edwards Deming precepts...every body loses.....country .....customers
and labor.
My son in law had to remove his motor starter after 150 hours of
little use. I saw it. I could not believe the inferior construction
of the brush holders. Tin parts installed in a tin can design. I
heard rumors Mallory is running full tilt as people wise up to
Mercury's inferior OEM network and then switch to Mallory. I hope
that is fact. But the cost of labor to remove and replace an I/O
starter is huge as many of you know. .
Which year of starters are you refering to?
usually the early (Delco 8 & 10 MT) marine units were heavy but cheap
to fix. then later on the gear reductions came out. The first models
made in Korea were the same as on an 80's Chevy s-10 and weren't much
to brag about concerning power, and repairs were costly like the rest
of the unit. Now the new series is little gear reduction which is a
Mitsubishi knock-off which is made in India for pity sakes.
But the Delco PM/260 is the way to go. they work well on anything from
a 3.0 up to a GM 503 CID. Both automotive and marine.
But regardless, ALL starters are prone to humidity and a lot of people
will let the bilge fill up to where the starter motor is baptized even
for a moment, then the corrosion begins. But even if kept dry, just
the humidity in the bilge will keep the starter damp and the rust
starts happening.
BTW, you say people are switching to Mallory? Mallory what? Mallory
doesn't make a starter.
I hope he knows that you know a *lot* about starters and other
electric motors.
Maybe he'll consider this fair warning.
I'd hate for him to feel too badly.
--
John H
"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant
that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it."
-- Thomas Sowell
Well, after almost 30 years of working on them daily , I would hope to
think I've learned something.

But I'm always open for suggestions...

?;^ )- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think Harry's father invented the electric starter.........

Harry's real father is Kettering?


If my father had invented the condom, and something like loogie resulted,
he would have started over.

You would not exist. Or maybe ge tried to invent one after you came on the
scene.

On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:16:07 -0400, HK wrote:

If my father had invented the condom, and something like loogie
resulted, he would have started over.

My great uncle was a partially successful inventor. He dabbled with
non alcoholic beverages. He called his best effort 6-Up. Then there
was the venture into cosmetics. Channel Four, a perfume, almost made
it, but a big French company backed out at the last minute, and went
with Chanel Five instead.

Casady

On Jun 28, 2:57*pm, HK wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:55:40 -0400, HK wrote:

Who makes
Evinrude? Not Evinrude. The brand name is just an asset bought on the
cheap.

I know the pre-bankruptsy Evinrude 4 strokes were Suzuki. The strange
thing is Suzuki has a fairly good name but the Evinrudes really
sucked. They had a 2 for 2 failure rate in the 2 neighbors I knew who
had them. Both had corrosion problems that led to catastrophic power
head failures.

'Zukes and Yamahas are the outboard power of choice, I think, with Mercs
third.

In the good old days, when my dad was a boat dealer, Evinrudes and
Johnsons had the best reps for corrosion resistance, and Mercs were a
distant third. Merc, my dad said, passed the OMC products in the mid to
late 1960's in that regard. I don't know if that was the case, but it
was my dad's opinion. I do know that Merc used a lot more aluminum in
the 1950s and 1960s than OMC...

Seeing how Harry was proven wrong ie: Mallory starters, I wondered how
long it would take for the thread to evolve into yet another series of
lies about Harry's father.

On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 08:10:36 -0500, Richard Casady
wrote:

On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:16:07 -0400, HK wrote:

If my father had invented the condom, and something like loogie
resulted, he would have started over.

My great uncle was a partially successful inventor. He dabbled with
non alcoholic beverages. He called his best effort 6-Up. Then there
was the venture into cosmetics. Channel Four, a perfume, almost made
it, but a big French company backed out at the last minute, and went
with Chanel Five instead.

It's a shame how the difference between success and failure can be so
minor.
Saw a list of some of the well-known successful brands and how they
began, sometimes radically changing their product.

1. Jimmy Pluto's Engine Boatyard - became Mercury Marine.
2. Hatter Posterior Padding - converted the factory to produce
Hatterass Boats
3. Larson Swedish Bakery - became Larson Boats.
4. Parker Pen Company - became Parker Boats.

That's all I can remember of the list.

Wait...
5.
No, that ain't right. Can't remember.
Maybe misremembered the ones above.
Anybody remember that list?

--Vic

On Jun 28, 1:43*pm, HK wrote:
Gene wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:55:40 -0400, HK wrote:

Gene wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:35:02 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Jun 28, 10:24 am, TinyTim wrote:
.... the high incidence of new model Mercruiser starters *early
failure *is endemic to the pervasive *decline in business management
ethics and general skill. *If these folks do not get on board with
Edwards Deming precepts...every body loses.....country .....customers
and labor. *

My son in law had to remove his motor starter after 150 hours of
little use. *I saw it. *I could not believe the inferior construction
of the brush holders. Tin parts installed in a tin can design. *I
heard rumors Mallory is running full tilt *as people wise up to
Mercury's inferior OEM network and *then switch to Mallory. I hope
that is fact. *But the cost of labor to remove and replace an I/O
starter is huge as many of you know. .

Which year of starters are you refering to?
usually the early *(Delco 8 & 10 MT) marine units were heavy but cheap
to fix. *then later on the gear reductions came out. The first models
made in Korea were the same as on an 80's Chevy s-10 and weren't much
to brag about concerning power, *and repairs were costly like the rest
of the unit. Now the new series is *little gear reduction which is a
Mitsubishi knock-off which is made in India for pity sakes.

But the Delco PM/260 is the way to go. they work well on anything from
a 3.0 up to a GM 503 CID. Both automotive and marine.

But regardless, ALL starters are prone to humidity and a lot of people
will let the bilge fill up to where the starter motor is baptized even
for a moment, then the corrosion begins. But even if kept dry, just
the humidity in the bilge will keep the starter damp and the rust
starts happening.

BTW, you say people are switching to Mallory? Mallory what? Mallory
doesn't make a starter.
Mallory advertises that they are suppliers to OEMs (Including
Mercury). Could it be that the subject starter is actually a Chinese
knock-off?

What difference does it make? Lots of manufacturers contract out the
building of their products and then label them as their own. Who makes
Evinrude? Not Evinrude. The brand name is just an asset bought on the
cheap.

Somehow, this discussion seems to be migrating toward who badged the
item rather than how we can buy quality. The OP references Edwards
Deming....

These days, there's lots of badging, some good, some bad, some just
average. For most replacement automotive pieces and parts, a big brand
name isn't a great assurance.

Example. NAPA never made a battery, and it seems to me that they can't
sell a good battery. They are or at least were made by the reputable
manufacturer Exide. Howeve, Exide made these dubious boxes to NAPA's
rather bogus specifications. ..which were pretty lousy. So, they tried
to make the pig even better by well, let's say not redesigning the
battery, but rather putting NAPA "Legend" and "Gold" on the label,
and a cute little NASCAR sticker on the top. hoping it would boost
sales. Still nothing but grief. So they started stacking years of
warrenties on them. Same end to the same story.

Badge doesn't necessarily mean quality. That's also another of
several reasons why Delco jsut about went into the tank. The Delco
"Remanufactured" line was handled by independent rebuilders, that
reused about everything the thought they could get by with because
they found themselves squeezed into contracts boasting of good profits
then finally realizing they were only getting pennies for their
dollars of investment . In other words, they got a first class
education in the Walmart School of Business. "How low can you go.."

then after doing a fabulous paint job that would make Claude Monet
envious, they slapped a Delco ReMan label on it to attract customers.
poor quality but, great name and good paint.

Caveat Emptor? eh, not always. But if you don't know. ask reputable
mechanics what they prefer. not just a dealer. Because they
themselves have usually found out that not all that glitters is gold
and have better success with the diamond in the rough. diamond in the
rough.