On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:35:02 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Jun 28, 10:24*am, TinyTim wrote:
.... the high incidence of new model Mercruiser starters *early
failure *is endemic to the pervasive *decline in business management
ethics and general skill. *If these folks do not get on board with
Edwards Deming precepts...every body loses.....country .....customers
and labor. *

My son in law had to remove his motor starter after 150 hours of
little use. *I saw it. *I could not believe the inferior construction
of the brush holders. Tin parts installed in a tin can design. *I
heard rumors Mallory is running full tilt *as people wise up to
Mercury's inferior OEM network and *then switch to Mallory. I hope
that is fact. *But the cost of labor to remove and replace an I/O
starter is huge as many of you know. .


Which year of starters are you refering to?
usually the early (Delco 8 & 10 MT) marine units were heavy but cheap
to fix. then later on the gear reductions came out. The first models
made in Korea were the same as on an 80's Chevy s-10 and weren't much
to brag about concerning power, and repairs were costly like the rest
of the unit. Now the new series is little gear reduction which is a
Mitsubishi knock-off which is made in India for pity sakes.

But the Delco PM/260 is the way to go. they work well on anything from
a 3.0 up to a GM 503 CID. Both automotive and marine.

But regardless, ALL starters are prone to humidity and a lot of people
will let the bilge fill up to where the starter motor is baptized even
for a moment, then the corrosion begins. But even if kept dry, just
the humidity in the bilge will keep the starter damp and the rust
starts happening.

BTW, you say people are switching to Mallory? Mallory what? Mallory
doesn't make a starter.

I hope he knows that you know a *lot* about starters and other
electric motors.

Maybe he'll consider this fair warning.

I'd hate for him to feel too badly.
--
John H

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant
that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it."
-- Thomas Sowell

On Jun 28, 12:01*pm, John H wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:35:02 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:



On Jun 28, 10:24*am, TinyTim wrote:
.... the high incidence of new model Mercruiser starters *early
failure *is endemic to the pervasive *decline in business management
ethics and general skill. *If these folks do not get on board with
Edwards Deming precepts...every body loses.....country .....customers
and labor. *

My son in law had to remove his motor starter after 150 hours of
little use. *I saw it. *I could not believe the inferior construction
of the brush holders. Tin parts installed in a tin can design. *I
heard rumors Mallory is running full tilt *as people wise up to
Mercury's inferior OEM network and *then switch to Mallory. I hope
that is fact. *But the cost of labor to remove and replace an I/O
starter is huge as many of you know. .

Which year of starters are you refering to?
usually the early *(Delco 8 & 10 MT) marine units were heavy but cheap
to fix. *then later on the gear reductions came out. The first models
made in Korea were the same as on an 80's Chevy s-10 and weren't much
to brag about concerning power, *and repairs were costly like the rest
of the unit. Now the new series is *little gear reduction which is a
Mitsubishi knock-off which is made in India for pity sakes.

But the Delco PM/260 is the way to go. they work well on anything from
a 3.0 up to a GM 503 CID. Both automotive and marine.

But regardless, ALL starters are prone to humidity and a lot of people
will let the bilge fill up to where the starter motor is baptized even
for a moment, then the corrosion begins. But even if kept dry, just
the humidity in the bilge will keep the starter damp and the rust
starts happening.

BTW, you say people are switching to Mallory? Mallory what? Mallory
doesn't make a starter.

I hope he knows that you know a *lot* about starters and other
electric motors.

Maybe he'll consider this fair warning.

I'd hate for him to feel too badly.
--
John H

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant
that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it."
-- Thomas Sowell

Well, after almost 30 years of working on them daily , I would hope to
think I've learned something.

But I'm always open for suggestions...

?;^ )

On Jun 28, 1:23*pm, Tim wrote:
On Jun 28, 12:01*pm, John H wrote:





On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:35:02 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Jun 28, 10:24*am, TinyTim wrote:
.... the high incidence of new model Mercruiser starters *early
failure *is endemic to the pervasive *decline in business management
ethics and general skill. *If these folks do not get on board with
Edwards Deming precepts...every body loses.....country .....customers
and labor. *

My son in law had to remove his motor starter after 150 hours of
little use. *I saw it. *I could not believe the inferior construction
of the brush holders. Tin parts installed in a tin can design. *I
heard rumors Mallory is running full tilt *as people wise up to
Mercury's inferior OEM network and *then switch to Mallory. I hope
that is fact. *But the cost of labor to remove and replace an I/O
starter is huge as many of you know. .

Which year of starters are you refering to?
usually the early *(Delco 8 & 10 MT) marine units were heavy but cheap
to fix. *then later on the gear reductions came out. The first models
made in Korea were the same as on an 80's Chevy s-10 and weren't much
to brag about concerning power, *and repairs were costly like the rest
of the unit. Now the new series is *little gear reduction which is a
Mitsubishi knock-off which is made in India for pity sakes.

But the Delco PM/260 is the way to go. they work well on anything from
a 3.0 up to a GM 503 CID. Both automotive and marine.

But regardless, ALL starters are prone to humidity and a lot of people
will let the bilge fill up to where the starter motor is baptized even
for a moment, then the corrosion begins. But even if kept dry, just
the humidity in the bilge will keep the starter damp and the rust
starts happening.

BTW, you say people are switching to Mallory? Mallory what? Mallory
doesn't make a starter.

I hope he knows that you know a *lot* about starters and other
electric motors.

Maybe he'll consider this fair warning.

I'd hate for him to feel too badly.
--
John H

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant
that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it."
-- Thomas Sowell

Well, after almost 30 years of working on them daily , I would hope to
think I've learned something.

But I'm always open for suggestions...

?;^ )- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think Harry's father invented the electric starter.........

"Loogypicker" wrote in message
...
On Jun 28, 1:23 pm, Tim wrote:
On Jun 28, 12:01 pm, John H wrote:





On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:35:02 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Jun 28, 10:24 am, TinyTim wrote:
.... the high incidence of new model Mercruiser starters early
failure is endemic to the pervasive decline in business management
ethics and general skill. If these folks do not get on board with
Edwards Deming precepts...every body loses.....country .....customers
and labor.

My son in law had to remove his motor starter after 150 hours of
little use. I saw it. I could not believe the inferior construction
of the brush holders. Tin parts installed in a tin can design. I
heard rumors Mallory is running full tilt as people wise up to
Mercury's inferior OEM network and then switch to Mallory. I hope
that is fact. But the cost of labor to remove and replace an I/O
starter is huge as many of you know. .

Which year of starters are you refering to?
usually the early (Delco 8 & 10 MT) marine units were heavy but cheap
to fix. then later on the gear reductions came out. The first models
made in Korea were the same as on an 80's Chevy s-10 and weren't much
to brag about concerning power, and repairs were costly like the rest
of the unit. Now the new series is little gear reduction which is a
Mitsubishi knock-off which is made in India for pity sakes.

But the Delco PM/260 is the way to go. they work well on anything from
a 3.0 up to a GM 503 CID. Both automotive and marine.

But regardless, ALL starters are prone to humidity and a lot of people
will let the bilge fill up to where the starter motor is baptized even
for a moment, then the corrosion begins. But even if kept dry, just
the humidity in the bilge will keep the starter damp and the rust
starts happening.

BTW, you say people are switching to Mallory? Mallory what? Mallory
doesn't make a starter.

I hope he knows that you know a *lot* about starters and other
electric motors.

Maybe he'll consider this fair warning.

I'd hate for him to feel too badly.
--
John H

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant
that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it."
-- Thomas Sowell

Well, after almost 30 years of working on them daily , I would hope to
think I've learned something.

But I'm always open for suggestions...

?;^ )- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think Harry's father invented the electric starter.........

Harry's real father is Kettering?

Gene wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:35:02 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Jun 28, 10:24 am, TinyTim wrote:
.... the high incidence of new model Mercruiser starters early
failure is endemic to the pervasive decline in business management
ethics and general skill. If these folks do not get on board with
Edwards Deming precepts...every body loses.....country .....customers
and labor.

My son in law had to remove his motor starter after 150 hours of
little use. I saw it. I could not believe the inferior construction
of the brush holders. Tin parts installed in a tin can design. I
heard rumors Mallory is running full tilt as people wise up to
Mercury's inferior OEM network and then switch to Mallory. I hope
that is fact. But the cost of labor to remove and replace an I/O
starter is huge as many of you know. .

Which year of starters are you refering to?
usually the early (Delco 8 & 10 MT) marine units were heavy but cheap
to fix. then later on the gear reductions came out. The first models
made in Korea were the same as on an 80's Chevy s-10 and weren't much
to brag about concerning power, and repairs were costly like the rest
of the unit. Now the new series is little gear reduction which is a
Mitsubishi knock-off which is made in India for pity sakes.

But the Delco PM/260 is the way to go. they work well on anything from
a 3.0 up to a GM 503 CID. Both automotive and marine.

But regardless, ALL starters are prone to humidity and a lot of people
will let the bilge fill up to where the starter motor is baptized even
for a moment, then the corrosion begins. But even if kept dry, just
the humidity in the bilge will keep the starter damp and the rust
starts happening.

BTW, you say people are switching to Mallory? Mallory what? Mallory
doesn't make a starter.

Mallory advertises that they are suppliers to OEMs (Including
Mercury). Could it be that the subject starter is actually a Chinese
knock-off?


What difference does it make? Lots of manufacturers contract out the
building of their products and then label them as their own. Who makes
Evinrude? Not Evinrude. The brand name is just an asset bought on the
cheap.

Gene wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:55:40 -0400, HK wrote:

Gene wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:35:02 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Jun 28, 10:24 am, TinyTim wrote:
.... the high incidence of new model Mercruiser starters early
failure is endemic to the pervasive decline in business management
ethics and general skill. If these folks do not get on board with
Edwards Deming precepts...every body loses.....country .....customers
and labor.

My son in law had to remove his motor starter after 150 hours of
little use. I saw it. I could not believe the inferior construction
of the brush holders. Tin parts installed in a tin can design. I
heard rumors Mallory is running full tilt as people wise up to
Mercury's inferior OEM network and then switch to Mallory. I hope
that is fact. But the cost of labor to remove and replace an I/O
starter is huge as many of you know. .

Which year of starters are you refering to?
usually the early (Delco 8 & 10 MT) marine units were heavy but cheap
to fix. then later on the gear reductions came out. The first models
made in Korea were the same as on an 80's Chevy s-10 and weren't much
to brag about concerning power, and repairs were costly like the rest
of the unit. Now the new series is little gear reduction which is a
Mitsubishi knock-off which is made in India for pity sakes.

But the Delco PM/260 is the way to go. they work well on anything from
a 3.0 up to a GM 503 CID. Both automotive and marine.

But regardless, ALL starters are prone to humidity and a lot of people
will let the bilge fill up to where the starter motor is baptized even
for a moment, then the corrosion begins. But even if kept dry, just
the humidity in the bilge will keep the starter damp and the rust
starts happening.

BTW, you say people are switching to Mallory? Mallory what? Mallory
doesn't make a starter.
Mallory advertises that they are suppliers to OEMs (Including
Mercury). Could it be that the subject starter is actually a Chinese
knock-off?

What difference does it make? Lots of manufacturers contract out the
building of their products and then label them as their own. Who makes
Evinrude? Not Evinrude. The brand name is just an asset bought on the
cheap.

Somehow, this discussion seems to be migrating toward who badged the
item rather than how we can buy quality. The OP references Edwards
Deming....

These days, there's lots of badging, some good, some bad, some just
average. For most replacement automotive pieces and parts, a big brand
name isn't a great assurance.

On Jun 28, 1:43*pm, HK wrote:
Gene wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:55:40 -0400, HK wrote:

Gene wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:35:02 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Jun 28, 10:24 am, TinyTim wrote:
.... the high incidence of new model Mercruiser starters *early
failure *is endemic to the pervasive *decline in business management
ethics and general skill. *If these folks do not get on board with
Edwards Deming precepts...every body loses.....country .....customers
and labor. *

My son in law had to remove his motor starter after 150 hours of
little use. *I saw it. *I could not believe the inferior construction
of the brush holders. Tin parts installed in a tin can design. *I
heard rumors Mallory is running full tilt *as people wise up to
Mercury's inferior OEM network and *then switch to Mallory. I hope
that is fact. *But the cost of labor to remove and replace an I/O
starter is huge as many of you know. .

Which year of starters are you refering to?
usually the early *(Delco 8 & 10 MT) marine units were heavy but cheap
to fix. *then later on the gear reductions came out. The first models
made in Korea were the same as on an 80's Chevy s-10 and weren't much
to brag about concerning power, *and repairs were costly like the rest
of the unit. Now the new series is *little gear reduction which is a
Mitsubishi knock-off which is made in India for pity sakes.

But the Delco PM/260 is the way to go. they work well on anything from
a 3.0 up to a GM 503 CID. Both automotive and marine.

But regardless, ALL starters are prone to humidity and a lot of people
will let the bilge fill up to where the starter motor is baptized even
for a moment, then the corrosion begins. But even if kept dry, just
the humidity in the bilge will keep the starter damp and the rust
starts happening.

BTW, you say people are switching to Mallory? Mallory what? Mallory
doesn't make a starter.
Mallory advertises that they are suppliers to OEMs (Including
Mercury). Could it be that the subject starter is actually a Chinese
knock-off?

What difference does it make? Lots of manufacturers contract out the
building of their products and then label them as their own. Who makes
Evinrude? Not Evinrude. The brand name is just an asset bought on the
cheap.

Somehow, this discussion seems to be migrating toward who badged the
item rather than how we can buy quality. The OP references Edwards
Deming....

These days, there's lots of badging, some good, some bad, some just
average. For most replacement automotive pieces and parts, a big brand
name isn't a great assurance.

Example. NAPA never made a battery, and it seems to me that they can't
sell a good battery. They are or at least were made by the reputable
manufacturer Exide. Howeve, Exide made these dubious boxes to NAPA's
rather bogus specifications. ..which were pretty lousy. So, they tried
to make the pig even better by well, let's say not redesigning the
battery, but rather putting NAPA "Legend" and "Gold" on the label,
and a cute little NASCAR sticker on the top. hoping it would boost
sales. Still nothing but grief. So they started stacking years of
warrenties on them. Same end to the same story.

Badge doesn't necessarily mean quality. That's also another of
several reasons why Delco jsut about went into the tank. The Delco
"Remanufactured" line was handled by independent rebuilders, that
reused about everything the thought they could get by with because
they found themselves squeezed into contracts boasting of good profits
then finally realizing they were only getting pennies for their
dollars of investment . In other words, they got a first class
education in the Walmart School of Business. "How low can you go.."

then after doing a fabulous paint job that would make Claude Monet
envious, they slapped a Delco ReMan label on it to attract customers.
poor quality but, great name and good paint.

Caveat Emptor? eh, not always. But if you don't know. ask reputable
mechanics what they prefer. not just a dealer. Because they
themselves have usually found out that not all that glitters is gold
and have better success with the diamond in the rough. diamond in the
rough.

LOL!

"THIS BRAND NEW STARTER IS A 'SUPER TORQUE HEAVY DUTY' BUILT FOR
MAXIMUM TORQUE AND PERFORMANCE!"

"DO NOT BE FOOLED BY CHEAP IMITATION STARTERS!"

http://www.db-starter-alternator.com

wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:55:40 -0400, HK wrote:

Who makes
Evinrude? Not Evinrude. The brand name is just an asset bought on the
cheap.

I know the pre-bankruptsy Evinrude 4 strokes were Suzuki. The strange
thing is Suzuki has a fairly good name but the Evinrudes really
sucked. They had a 2 for 2 failure rate in the 2 neighbors I knew who
had them. Both had corrosion problems that led to catastrophic power
head failures.

wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:55:40 -0400, HK wrote:

Who makes
Evinrude? Not Evinrude. The brand name is just an asset bought on the
cheap.

I know the pre-bankruptsy Evinrude 4 strokes were Suzuki. The strange
thing is Suzuki has a fairly good name but the Evinrudes really
sucked. They had a 2 for 2 failure rate in the 2 neighbors I knew who
had them. Both had corrosion problems that led to catastrophic power
head failures.


'Zukes and Yamahas are the outboard power of choice, I think, with Mercs
third.

In the good old days, when my dad was a boat dealer, Evinrudes and
Johnsons had the best reps for corrosion resistance, and Mercs were a
distant third. Merc, my dad said, passed the OMC products in the mid to
late 1960's in that regard. I don't know if that was the case, but it
was my dad's opinion. I do know that Merc used a lot more aluminum in
the 1950s and 1960s than OMC...