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Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
Southern Baptists look for cures to stagnation 'Great Commission Resurgence' » Leaders will present declaration at annual meeting this week. By Adelle M. Banks Religion News Service Salt Lake Tribune 02:56:55 PM MDT Decades of painful conservative-moderate fights. Stagnant baptism rates. Membership malaise. Surveying the state of the Southern Baptist Convention, seminary president Danny Akin can sum it all up in six words: "Business as usual is not working." Seeking to turn things around for the nation's largest Protestant body, Akin has teamed with SBC President Johnny Hunt to draft a "Great Commission Resurgence" declaration that will be presented to the Baptists' annual meeting June 23-24 in Louisville, Ky. The goal is to find a new way forward after several high-profile campaigns to boost the number of baptisms -- a key measure of vitality and an article of faith for Baptists -- fell flat. Hunt told one Baptist newspaper that the SBC is like a ship that is "adrift" and needs to consider ridding itself of unnecessary "cargo." For the Rev. Micah Fries, a 30-year-old pastor of a Southern Baptist church in St. Joseph, Mo., such analogies are appropriate for a denomination that has grown in size and bureaucracy in its more than 150 years of history. "We need to lose some excessive baggage," he said, noting a worrisome $30 million shortfall in an international missions offering that will reduce the number of missionaries deployed oversees. For years, political battles -- inside and outside the convention -- put key Southern Baptist leaders in the spotlight. But now, as some of those faces fade from view, a younger generation is taking a different focus. "I think in many ways, the Southern Baptist Convention mirrors the Republican Party in that they have cultivated such a narrow base," said the Rev. Bill Leonard, dean of the Wake Forest University School of Divinity in Winston-Salem, N.C. "They have to keep defining themselves to say to a new generation, 'Here's what we delivered you from,' because this new generation doesn't remember." Those fights included whether to boycott the Walt Disney Co., forbidding women pastors, telling wives to "submit graciously" to their husbands and screening out would-be missionaries who pray in tongues, as well as public-square battles over abortion and homosexuality. Akin, the 52-year-old president of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, N.C., says the annual fights over hot-button theological or social issues aren't moving the next generation of Baptists. "This is kind of the network of younger, enthusiastic Southern Baptists who, to be honest with you, ... find the annual meeting itself a little frustrating and a little boring," said Akin. Akin hopes the declaration will help chart a new direction by combining theology -- with a focus on sharing the gospel and belief in an error-proof Bible -- with a top-to-bottom streamlining that puts special emphasis on racial reconciliation. The Baptist blogosphere is already abuzz with debate over where the document could take the denomination, or if it could even work. "It exposes two divides," said the Rev. Wade Burleson, pastor of Emmanuel Baptist Church in Enid, Okla., who has used his blog to question Southern Baptist policies in recent years. "It's an ideological, not generational, divide and it is a status-quo-versus-change divide." Richard Land, president of the denomination's Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, said the statement reflects particular concern with baptism rates -- now at their lowest since 1987 -- and a total membership that dropped 0.2 percent in a church that for years prided itself on its annual increases. "I think it's a sense of some frustration that we have not seen more growth in missions and evangelism, and [it's] an attempt to re-emphasize that," he said. Not everyone is embracing Hunt and Akin's plans. Former SBC President Morris Chapman (who currently leads the denomination's Executive Committee) has been outspoken in his opposition. "Reallocating our funds will not solve any perceived problems," Chapman wrote in a column in Baptist Press, the denomination's news service. "But a genuine revival might!" Some Baptist state conventions have questioned what the proposed restructuring could mean on the local level, while others acknowledge the need for change. "It is with sadness I declare that many in our churches are spiritually sick and in great need of a fresh movement of God both within the leadership and the laity," said Milton A. Hollifield Jr., the executive director-treasurer of the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina, at a May board meeting. "May God help us look to him and to be different." - - - It's nice to see problems among the bigots. |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
HK wrote:
Southern Baptists look for cures to stagnation 'Great Commission Resurgence' » Leaders will present declaration at annual meeting this week. By Adelle M. Banks Religion News Service Salt Lake Tribune 02:56:55 PM MDT Decades of painful conservative-moderate fights. Stagnant baptism rates. Membership malaise. Surveying the state of the Southern Baptist Convention, seminary president Danny Akin can sum it all up in six words: "Business as usual is not working." Seeking to turn things around for the nation's largest Protestant body, Akin has teamed with SBC President Johnny Hunt to draft a "Great Commission Resurgence" declaration that will be presented to the Baptists' annual meeting June 23-24 in Louisville, Ky. The goal is to find a new way forward after several high-profile campaigns to boost the number of baptisms -- a key measure of vitality and an article of faith for Baptists -- fell flat. Hunt told one Baptist newspaper that the SBC is like a ship that is "adrift" and needs to consider ridding itself of unnecessary "cargo." For the Rev. Micah Fries, a 30-year-old pastor of a Southern Baptist church in St. Joseph, Mo., such analogies are appropriate for a denomination that has grown in size and bureaucracy in its more than 150 years of history. "We need to lose some excessive baggage," he said, noting a worrisome $30 million shortfall in an international missions offering that will reduce the number of missionaries deployed oversees. For years, political battles -- inside and outside the convention -- put key Southern Baptist leaders in the spotlight. But now, as some of those faces fade from view, a younger generation is taking a different focus. "I think in many ways, the Southern Baptist Convention mirrors the Republican Party in that they have cultivated such a narrow base," said the Rev. Bill Leonard, dean of the Wake Forest University School of Divinity in Winston-Salem, N.C. "They have to keep defining themselves to say to a new generation, 'Here's what we delivered you from,' because this new generation doesn't remember." Those fights included whether to boycott the Walt Disney Co., forbidding women pastors, telling wives to "submit graciously" to their husbands and screening out would-be missionaries who pray in tongues, as well as public-square battles over abortion and homosexuality. Akin, the 52-year-old president of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, N.C., says the annual fights over hot-button theological or social issues aren't moving the next generation of Baptists. "This is kind of the network of younger, enthusiastic Southern Baptists who, to be honest with you, ... find the annual meeting itself a little frustrating and a little boring," said Akin. Akin hopes the declaration will help chart a new direction by combining theology -- with a focus on sharing the gospel and belief in an error-proof Bible -- with a top-to-bottom streamlining that puts special emphasis on racial reconciliation. The Baptist blogosphere is already abuzz with debate over where the document could take the denomination, or if it could even work. "It exposes two divides," said the Rev. Wade Burleson, pastor of Emmanuel Baptist Church in Enid, Okla., who has used his blog to question Southern Baptist policies in recent years. "It's an ideological, not generational, divide and it is a status-quo-versus-change divide." Richard Land, president of the denomination's Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, said the statement reflects particular concern with baptism rates -- now at their lowest since 1987 -- and a total membership that dropped 0.2 percent in a church that for years prided itself on its annual increases. "I think it's a sense of some frustration that we have not seen more growth in missions and evangelism, and [it's] an attempt to re-emphasize that," he said. Not everyone is embracing Hunt and Akin's plans. Former SBC President Morris Chapman (who currently leads the denomination's Executive Committee) has been outspoken in his opposition. "Reallocating our funds will not solve any perceived problems," Chapman wrote in a column in Baptist Press, the denomination's news service. "But a genuine revival might!" Some Baptist state conventions have questioned what the proposed restructuring could mean on the local level, while others acknowledge the need for change. "It is with sadness I declare that many in our churches are spiritually sick and in great need of a fresh movement of God both within the leadership and the laity," said Milton A. Hollifield Jr., the executive director-treasurer of the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina, at a May board meeting. "May God help us look to him and to be different." - - - It's nice to see problems among the bigots. That's good news for Harry Krause, isn't it. The fear and intimidation you suffer at the prospect of being asked to consider a moral, ethical, and religious life must have you shakin in your boots. |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
On Jun 22, 6:20*am, Jim24242 wrote:
That's good news for Harry Krause, isn't it. The fear and intimidation you suffer at the prospect of being asked to consider a moral, ethical, and religious life must have you shakin in your boots except, of course, the s. baptists have never come close to living a moral ethical and religious life. the church was founded as a proslavery church in 1845 and has opposed freedom for anyone ever since...in the name of god. it's also america's leading pro- creationism church IOW it's wrong about everything. |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
On Jun 22, 6:50*am, wf3h wrote:
IOW it's wrong about everything. I very much disagree with you , but I won't argue about it. |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
On Jun 22, 6:05*am, HK wrote:
Southern Baptists look for cures to stagnation 'Great Commission Resurgence' » Leaders will present declaration at annual meeting this week. By Adelle M. Banks Religion News Service Salt Lake Tribune 02:56:55 PM MDT Decades of painful conservative-moderate fights. Stagnant baptism rates. Membership malaise. Surveying the state of the Southern Baptist Convention, seminary president Danny Akin can sum it all up in six words: "Business as usual is not working." Seeking to turn things around for the nation's largest Protestant body, Akin has teamed with SBC President Johnny Hunt to draft a "Great Commission Resurgence" declaration that will be presented to the Baptists' annual meeting June 23-24 in Louisville, Ky. The goal is to find a new way forward after several high-profile campaigns to boost the number of baptisms -- a key measure of vitality and an article of faith for Baptists -- fell flat. Hunt told one Baptist newspaper that the SBC is like a ship that is "adrift" and needs to consider ridding itself of unnecessary "cargo." For the Rev. Micah Fries, a 30-year-old pastor of a Southern Baptist church in St. Joseph, Mo., such analogies are appropriate for a denomination that has grown in size and bureaucracy in its more than 150 years of history. "We need to lose some excessive baggage," he said, noting a worrisome $30 million shortfall in an international missions offering that will reduce the number of missionaries deployed oversees. For years, political battles -- inside and outside the convention -- put key Southern Baptist leaders in the spotlight. But now, as some of those faces fade from view, a younger generation is taking a different focus. "I think in many ways, the Southern Baptist Convention mirrors the Republican Party in that they have cultivated such a narrow base," said the Rev. Bill Leonard, dean of the Wake Forest University School of Divinity in Winston-Salem, N.C. "They have to keep defining themselves to say to a new generation, 'Here's what we delivered you from,' because this new generation doesn't remember." Those fights included whether to boycott the Walt Disney Co., forbidding women pastors, telling wives to "submit graciously" to their husbands and screening out would-be missionaries who pray in tongues, as well as public-square battles over abortion and homosexuality. Akin, the 52-year-old president of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, N.C., says the annual fights over hot-button theological or social issues aren't moving the next generation of Baptists. "This is kind of the network of younger, enthusiastic Southern Baptists who, to be honest with you, ... find the annual meeting itself a little frustrating and a little boring," said Akin. Akin hopes the declaration will help chart a new direction by combining theology -- with a focus on sharing the gospel and belief in an error-proof Bible -- with a top-to-bottom streamlining that puts special emphasis on racial reconciliation. The Baptist blogosphere is already abuzz with debate over where the document could take the denomination, or if it could even work. "It exposes two divides," said the Rev. Wade Burleson, pastor of Emmanuel Baptist Church in Enid, Okla., who has used his blog to question Southern Baptist policies in recent years. "It's an ideological, not generational, divide and it is a status-quo-versus-change divide." Richard Land, president of the denomination's Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, said the statement reflects particular concern with baptism rates -- now at their lowest since 1987 -- and a total membership that dropped 0.2 percent in a church that for years prided itself on its annual increases. "I think it's a sense of some frustration that we have not seen more growth in missions and evangelism, and [it's] an attempt to re-emphasize that," he said. Not everyone is embracing Hunt and Akin's plans. Former SBC President Morris Chapman (who currently leads the denomination's Executive Committee) has been outspoken in his opposition. "Reallocating our funds will not solve any perceived problems," Chapman wrote in a column in Baptist Press, the denomination's news service. "But a genuine revival might!" Some Baptist state conventions have questioned what the proposed restructuring could mean on the local level, while others acknowledge the need for change. "It is with sadness I declare that many in our churches are spiritually sick and in great need of a fresh movement of God both within the leadership and the laity," said Milton A. Hollifield Jr., the executive director-treasurer of the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina, at a May board meeting. "May God help us look to him and to be different." - - - It's nice to see problems among the bigots. You ARE a bigot. |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
wf3h wrote:
On Jun 22, 6:20 am, Jim24242 wrote: That's good news for Harry Krause, isn't it. The fear and intimidation you suffer at the prospect of being asked to consider a moral, ethical, and religious life must have you shakin in your boots except, of course, the s. baptists have never come close to living a moral ethical and religious life. the church was founded as a proslavery church in 1845 and has opposed freedom for anyone ever since...in the name of god. it's also america's leading pro- creationism church IOW it's wrong about everything. Everything that has evolved was created at one point, one would think. Krause despises all religion, as far as I can tell. |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
"HK" wrote in message ... Southern Baptists look for cures to stagnation 'Great Commission Resurgence' » Leaders will present declaration at annual meeting this week. By Adelle M. Banks Religion News Service Salt Lake Tribune 02:56:55 PM MDT Decades of painful conservative-moderate fights. Stagnant baptism rates. Membership malaise. Surveying the state of the Southern Baptist Convention, seminary president Danny Akin can sum it all up in six words: "Business as usual is not working." Seeking to turn things around for the nation's largest Protestant body, Akin has teamed with SBC President Johnny Hunt to draft a "Great Commission Resurgence" declaration that will be presented to the Baptists' annual meeting June 23-24 in Louisville, Ky. The goal is to find a new way forward after several high-profile campaigns to boost the number of baptisms -- a key measure of vitality and an article of faith for Baptists -- fell flat. Hunt told one Baptist newspaper that the SBC is like a ship that is "adrift" and needs to consider ridding itself of unnecessary "cargo." For the Rev. Micah Fries, a 30-year-old pastor of a Southern Baptist church in St. Joseph, Mo., such analogies are appropriate for a denomination that has grown in size and bureaucracy in its more than 150 years of history. "We need to lose some excessive baggage," he said, noting a worrisome $30 million shortfall in an international missions offering that will reduce the number of missionaries deployed oversees. Reduce the number of missionaries? When I met a family of SB missionaries in post war Croatia, my first thought was "just what these people (Croats) need- another f-ing religion" When I met SB missionaries in Al Hilla, Iraq in 2003, the first thing that hit was that we'd end up finding them in the desert without thier heads. Don't know if they were intact when they left, but going door to door and telling Muslims they got it all wrong doesn't seem like something to put on the 'ol life insurance form. |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
wf3h wrote:
On Jun 22, 6:20 am, Jim24242 wrote: That's good news for Harry Krause, isn't it. The fear and intimidation you suffer at the prospect of being asked to consider a moral, ethical, and religious life must have you shakin in your boots except, of course, the s. baptists have never come close to living a moral ethical and religious life. the church was founded as a proslavery church in 1845 and has opposed freedom for anyone ever since...in the name of god. it's also america's leading pro- creationism church IOW it's wrong about everything. An absolutely backwards "bunch" of religious zealots, doing "the devil's work" wherever it can. That floridajim believes they're moral and ethical says even more about him than it does about the white southern baptists. |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
HK wrote:
wf3h wrote: On Jun 22, 6:20 am, Jim24242 wrote: That's good news for Harry Krause, isn't it. The fear and intimidation you suffer at the prospect of being asked to consider a moral, ethical, and religious life must have you shakin in your boots except, of course, the s. baptists have never come close to living a moral ethical and religious life. the church was founded as a proslavery church in 1845 and has opposed freedom for anyone ever since...in the name of god. it's also america's leading pro- creationism church IOW it's wrong about everything. An absolutely backwards "bunch" of religious zealots, doing "the devil's work" wherever it can. That floridajim believes they're moral and ethical says even more about him than it does about the white southern baptists. OK **** for brains. Show me where I said that. |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
On Jun 22, 8:06*am, Tim wrote:
On Jun 22, 6:50*am, wf3h wrote: IOW it's wrong about everything. I very much disagree with you , but I won't argue about it. I wonder why seemingly good people, and of course assholes like Harry feel the need to push their anti-Christian bigotry on everyone whenever they find a remote opening, or even make one up? Why must they shove their "religion" down our throats all the time... Oh, but we can't talk about ours, that would hurt their feelings and they would want to take us to court snerk In other words, why are they so hypocritical? |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
JustWaitAFrekinMinute! wrote:
On Jun 22, 8:06 am, Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:50 am, wf3h wrote: IOW it's wrong about everything. I very much disagree with you , but I won't argue about it. I wonder why seemingly good people, and of course assholes like Harry feel the need to push their anti-Christian bigotry on everyone whenever they find a remote opening, or even make one up? Why must they shove their "religion" down our throats all the time... Oh, but we can't talk about ours, that would hurt their feelings and they would want to take us to court snerk In other words, why are they so hypocritical? I'll try to make it really simple for you, ****-for-brains. I'm not pushing any religion or any religion's alleged principles, precepts, beliefs. I don't give a **** if you believe in a supreme being, or a terra cotta statue, or a great pair of teats. What fundamentalist religions do, religions like the white southern baptists, is try to push their alleged principles, precepts, beliefs, and bull**** onto others, and onto society generally. You can talk about *your* religion to your heart's content. I wouldn't lift an eyebrow to stop you. If, however, you try to use the people's facilities, or the people's property (public schools, or building a creche in front of the public's firehouse, for example), to sell your particular brand of snake oil, then I think you should be taken into court. |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
On Jun 22, 10:54*am, HK wrote:
What hypocrites do, is try to push their alleged principles, precepts, beliefs, and bull**** onto others, and onto society generally. There, I fixed it for you. You can thank me later... |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
JustWaitAFrekinMinute! wrote:
On Jun 22, 10:54 am, HK wrote: What hypocrites do, is try to push their alleged principles, precepts, beliefs, and bull**** onto others, and onto society generally. There, I fixed it for you. You can thank me later... So, you've seen the light about organized religion, eh? You really ought to stick to what you know best...child endangerment and arguing with the police. |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
On Jun 22, 12:07*pm, HK wrote:
JustWaitAFrekinMinute! wrote: On Jun 22, 10:54 am, HK wrote: What hypocrites do, is try to push their alleged principles, precepts, beliefs, and bull**** onto others, and onto society generally. There, I fixed it for you. You can thank me later... So, you've seen the light about organized religion, eh? You really ought to stick to what you know best...child endangerment and arguing with the police. And you hiding under your desk and giving Stumpy blowjobs... |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
On Jun 22, 10:54*am, HK wrote:
JustWaitAFrekinMinute! wrote: On Jun 22, 8:06 am, Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:50 am, wf3h wrote: IOW it's wrong about everything. I very much disagree with you , but I won't argue about it. I wonder why seemingly good people, and of course assholes like Harry feel the need to push their anti-Christian bigotry on everyone whenever they find a remote opening, or even make one up? Why must they shove their "religion" down our throats all the time... * * Oh, but we can't talk about ours, that would hurt their feelings and they would want to take us to court snerk In other words, why are they so hypocritical? I'll try to make it really simple for you, ****-for-brains. I'm not pushing any religion or any religion's alleged principles, precepts, beliefs. I don't give a **** if you believe in a supreme being, or a terra cotta statue, or a great pair of teats. What fundamentalist religions do, religions like the white southern baptists, is try to push their alleged principles, precepts, beliefs, and bull**** onto others, and onto society generally. You can talk about *your* religion to your heart's content. I wouldn't lift an eyebrow to stop you. If, however, you try to use the people's facilities, or the people's property (public schools, or building a creche in front of the public's firehouse, for example), to sell your particular brand of snake oil, then I think you should be taken into court.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Then why in hell are you trying to shove YOUR ideals down OUR throats, asshole? |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
On Jun 22, 8:56*am, HK wrote:
wf3h wrote: On Jun 22, 6:20 am, Jim24242 wrote: That's good news for Harry Krause, isn't it. The fear and intimidation you suffer at the prospect of being asked to consider a moral, ethical, and religious life must have you shakin in your boots except, of course, the s. baptists have never come close to living a moral ethical and religious life. the church was founded as a proslavery church in 1845 and has opposed freedom for anyone ever since...in the name of god. it's also america's leading pro- creationism church IOW it's wrong about everything. An absolutely backwards "bunch" of religious zealots, doing "the devil's work" wherever it can. That floridajim believes they're moral and ethical says even more about him than it does about the white southern baptists. What about the Black Southern Baptists, Harry? There's lots of them. |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
On Jun 22, 8:28*am, "mmc" wrote:
"HK" wrote in message ... * Southern Baptists look for cures to stagnation 'Great Commission Resurgence' » Leaders will present declaration at annual meeting this week. By Adelle M. Banks Religion News Service Salt Lake Tribune 02:56:55 PM MDT Decades of painful conservative-moderate fights. Stagnant baptism rates.. Membership malaise. Surveying the state of the Southern Baptist Convention, seminary president Danny Akin can sum it all up in six words: "Business as usual is not working." Seeking to turn things around for the nation's largest Protestant body, Akin has teamed with SBC President Johnny Hunt to draft a "Great Commission Resurgence" declaration that will be presented to the Baptists' annual meeting June 23-24 in Louisville, Ky. The goal is to find a new way forward after several high-profile campaigns to boost the number of baptisms -- a key measure of vitality and an article of faith for Baptists -- fell flat. Hunt told one Baptist newspaper that the SBC is like a ship that is "adrift" and needs to consider ridding itself of unnecessary "cargo." For the Rev. Micah Fries, a 30-year-old pastor of a Southern Baptist church in St. Joseph, Mo., such analogies are appropriate for a denomination that has grown in size and bureaucracy in its more than 150 years of history. "We need to lose some excessive baggage," he said, noting a worrisome $30 million shortfall in an international missions offering that will reduce the number of missionaries deployed oversees. Reduce the number of missionaries? When I met a family of SB missionaries in post war Croatia, my first thought was "just what these people (Croats) need- another f-ing religion" When I met SB missionaries in Al Hilla, Iraq in 2003, the first thing that hit was that we'd end up finding them in the desert without thier heads. Don't know if they were intact when they left, but going door to door and telling Muslims they got it all wrong doesn't seem like something to put on the 'ol life insurance form. Mike, The missionaries don't go "door-to-door" to the muslims. Usually the Muslims come to them. and the misionaries don't normally lose their heads. they get shot. http://www.christianaction.org.za/ar...RY_DOCTORS.htm oddly enough. the missionaries treated a young man about two weeks earlier, and this is how he responded to the missionaries and their clinic. |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 15:40:49 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote: On Jun 22, 8:28*am, "mmc" wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... * Southern Baptists look for cures to stagnation 'Great Commission Resurgence' » Leaders will present declaration at annual meeting this week. By Adelle M. Banks Religion News Service Salt Lake Tribune 02:56:55 PM MDT Decades of painful conservative-moderate fights. Stagnant baptism rates. Membership malaise. Surveying the state of the Southern Baptist Convention, seminary president Danny Akin can sum it all up in six words: "Business as usual is not working." Seeking to turn things around for the nation's largest Protestant body, Akin has teamed with SBC President Johnny Hunt to draft a "Great Commission Resurgence" declaration that will be presented to the Baptists' annual meeting June 23-24 in Louisville, Ky. The goal is to find a new way forward after several high-profile campaigns to boost the number of baptisms -- a key measure of vitality and an article of faith for Baptists -- fell flat. Hunt told one Baptist newspaper that the SBC is like a ship that is "adrift" and needs to consider ridding itself of unnecessary "cargo." For the Rev. Micah Fries, a 30-year-old pastor of a Southern Baptist church in St. Joseph, Mo., such analogies are appropriate for a denomination that has grown in size and bureaucracy in its more than 150 years of history. "We need to lose some excessive baggage," he said, noting a worrisome $30 million shortfall in an international missions offering that will reduce the number of missionaries deployed oversees. Reduce the number of missionaries? When I met a family of SB missionaries in post war Croatia, my first thought was "just what these people (Croats) need- another f-ing religion" When I met SB missionaries in Al Hilla, Iraq in 2003, the first thing that hit was that we'd end up finding them in the desert without thier heads. Don't know if they were intact when they left, but going door to door and telling Muslims they got it all wrong doesn't seem like something to put on the 'ol life insurance form. Mike, The missionaries don't go "door-to-door" to the muslims. Usually the Muslims come to them. and the misionaries don't normally lose their heads. they get shot. http://www.christianaction.org.za/ar...RY_DOCTORS.htm oddly enough. the missionaries treated a young man about two weeks earlier, and this is how he responded to the missionaries and their clinic. Yes, free food and medical attention do wonders to ingratiate followers to a sect. bin Laden uses the same tactics. We'd have won the war several years ago if we'd have taken over Afghanistan with food, medicine and books. Unfortunately, that's not the business of the US. We're in the arms business. |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
Tim wrote:
On Jun 22, 8:56 am, HK wrote: wf3h wrote: On Jun 22, 6:20 am, Jim24242 wrote: That's good news for Harry Krause, isn't it. The fear and intimidation you suffer at the prospect of being asked to consider a moral, ethical, and religious life must have you shakin in your boots except, of course, the s. baptists have never come close to living a moral ethical and religious life. the church was founded as a proslavery church in 1845 and has opposed freedom for anyone ever since...in the name of god. it's also america's leading pro- creationism church IOW it's wrong about everything. An absolutely backwards "bunch" of religious zealots, doing "the devil's work" wherever it can. That floridajim believes they're moral and ethical says even more about him than it does about the white southern baptists. What about the Black Southern Baptists, Harry? There's lots of them. Different organization. |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
Tim wrote:
On Jun 22, 8:28 am, "mmc" wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... Southern Baptists look for cures to stagnation 'Great Commission Resurgence' » Leaders will present declaration at annual meeting this week. By Adelle M. Banks Religion News Service Salt Lake Tribune 02:56:55 PM MDT Decades of painful conservative-moderate fights. Stagnant baptism rates. Membership malaise. Surveying the state of the Southern Baptist Convention, seminary president Danny Akin can sum it all up in six words: "Business as usual is not working." Seeking to turn things around for the nation's largest Protestant body, Akin has teamed with SBC President Johnny Hunt to draft a "Great Commission Resurgence" declaration that will be presented to the Baptists' annual meeting June 23-24 in Louisville, Ky. The goal is to find a new way forward after several high-profile campaigns to boost the number of baptisms -- a key measure of vitality and an article of faith for Baptists -- fell flat. Hunt told one Baptist newspaper that the SBC is like a ship that is "adrift" and needs to consider ridding itself of unnecessary "cargo." For the Rev. Micah Fries, a 30-year-old pastor of a Southern Baptist church in St. Joseph, Mo., such analogies are appropriate for a denomination that has grown in size and bureaucracy in its more than 150 years of history. "We need to lose some excessive baggage," he said, noting a worrisome $30 million shortfall in an international missions offering that will reduce the number of missionaries deployed oversees. Reduce the number of missionaries? When I met a family of SB missionaries in post war Croatia, my first thought was "just what these people (Croats) need- another f-ing religion" When I met SB missionaries in Al Hilla, Iraq in 2003, the first thing that hit was that we'd end up finding them in the desert without thier heads. Don't know if they were intact when they left, but going door to door and telling Muslims they got it all wrong doesn't seem like something to put on the 'ol life insurance form. Mike, The missionaries don't go "door-to-door" to the muslims. Usually the Muslims come to them. and the misionaries don't normally lose their heads. they get shot. http://www.christianaction.org.za/ar...RY_DOCTORS.htm oddly enough. the missionaries treated a young man about two weeks earlier, and this is how he responded to the missionaries and their clinic. And what is the purpose of a Southern Baptist "missionary" hospital? |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
On Jun 22, 6:02*pm, HK wrote:
Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 8:56 am, HK wrote: wf3h wrote: On Jun 22, 6:20 am, Jim24242 wrote: That's good news for Harry Krause, isn't it. The fear and intimidation you suffer at the prospect of being asked to consider a moral, ethical, and religious life must have you shakin in your boots except, of course, the s. baptists have never come close to living a moral ethical and religious life. the church was founded as a proslavery church in 1845 and has opposed freedom for anyone ever since...in the name of god. it's also america's leading pro- creationism church IOW it's wrong about everything. An absolutely backwards "bunch" of religious zealots, doing "the devil's work" wherever it can. That floridajim believes they're moral and ethical says even more about him than it does about the white southern baptists. What about the Black Southern Baptists, Harry? *There's lots of them. Different organization. nope. |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
Tim wrote:
On Jun 22, 6:02 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 8:56 am, HK wrote: wf3h wrote: On Jun 22, 6:20 am, Jim24242 wrote: That's good news for Harry Krause, isn't it. The fear and intimidation you suffer at the prospect of being asked to consider a moral, ethical, and religious life must have you shakin in your boots except, of course, the s. baptists have never come close to living a moral ethical and religious life. the church was founded as a proslavery church in 1845 and has opposed freedom for anyone ever since...in the name of god. it's also america's leading pro- creationism church IOW it's wrong about everything. An absolutely backwards "bunch" of religious zealots, doing "the devil's work" wherever it can. That floridajim believes they're moral and ethical says even more about him than it does about the white southern baptists. What about the Black Southern Baptists, Harry? There's lots of them. Different organization. nope. Yup. |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
On Jun 22, 5:40*pm, Tim wrote:
On Jun 22, 8:28*am, "mmc" wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... * Southern Baptists look for cures to stagnation 'Great Commission Resurgence' » Leaders will present declaration at annual meeting this week. By Adelle M. Banks Religion News Service Salt Lake Tribune 02:56:55 PM MDT Decades of painful conservative-moderate fights. Stagnant baptism rates. Membership malaise. Surveying the state of the Southern Baptist Convention, seminary president Danny Akin can sum it all up in six words: "Business as usual is not working." Seeking to turn things around for the nation's largest Protestant body, Akin has teamed with SBC President Johnny Hunt to draft a "Great Commission Resurgence" declaration that will be presented to the Baptists' annual meeting June 23-24 in Louisville, Ky. The goal is to find a new way forward after several high-profile campaigns to boost the number of baptisms -- a key measure of vitality and an article of faith for Baptists -- fell flat. Hunt told one Baptist newspaper that the SBC is like a ship that is "adrift" and needs to consider ridding itself of unnecessary "cargo." For the Rev. Micah Fries, a 30-year-old pastor of a Southern Baptist church in St. Joseph, Mo., such analogies are appropriate for a denomination that has grown in size and bureaucracy in its more than 150 years of history. "We need to lose some excessive baggage," he said, noting a worrisome $30 million shortfall in an international missions offering that will reduce the number of missionaries deployed oversees. Reduce the number of missionaries? When I met a family of SB missionaries in post war Croatia, my first thought was "just what these people (Croats) need- another f-ing religion" When I met SB missionaries in Al Hilla, Iraq in 2003, the first thing that hit was that we'd end up finding them in the desert without thier heads.. Don't know if they were intact when they left, but going door to door and telling Muslims they got it all wrong doesn't seem like something to put on the 'ol life insurance form. Mike, The missionaries don't go "door-to-door" to the muslims. Usually the Muslims come to them. and the misionaries don't normally lose their heads. they get shot. http://www.christianaction.org.za/ar...REE_MISSIONARY... oddly enough. the missionaries treated a young man about two weeks earlier, and this is how he responded to the missionaries and their clinic. But then again. they don't always get shot. sometimes they and their familie's get burnt alive. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Staines |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
On Jun 22, 6:06*pm, HK wrote:
Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:02 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 8:56 am, HK wrote: wf3h wrote: On Jun 22, 6:20 am, Jim24242 wrote: That's good news for Harry Krause, isn't it. The fear and intimidation you suffer at the prospect of being asked to consider a moral, ethical, and religious life must have you shakin in your boots except, of course, the s. baptists have never come close to living a moral ethical and religious life. the church was founded as a proslavery church in 1845 and has opposed freedom for anyone ever since...in the name of god. it's also america's leading pro- creationism church IOW it's wrong about everything. An absolutely backwards "bunch" of religious zealots, doing "the devil's work" wherever it can. That floridajim believes they're moral and ethical says even more about him than it does about the white southern baptists. What about the Black Southern Baptists, Harry? *There's lots of them. Different organization. nope. Yup. Nope. and what do you think is the objective of a Southern Baptist "Missionary" Hospital? |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
Tim wrote:
On Jun 22, 6:06 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:02 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 8:56 am, HK wrote: wf3h wrote: On Jun 22, 6:20 am, Jim24242 wrote: That's good news for Harry Krause, isn't it. The fear and intimidation you suffer at the prospect of being asked to consider a moral, ethical, and religious life must have you shakin in your boots except, of course, the s. baptists have never come close to living a moral ethical and religious life. the church was founded as a proslavery church in 1845 and has opposed freedom for anyone ever since...in the name of god. it's also america's leading pro- creationism church IOW it's wrong about everything. An absolutely backwards "bunch" of religious zealots, doing "the devil's work" wherever it can. That floridajim believes they're moral and ethical says even more about him than it does about the white southern baptists. What about the Black Southern Baptists, Harry? There's lots of them. Different organization. nope. Yup. Nope. and what do you think is the objective of a Southern Baptist "Missionary" Hospital? Proselytizing. |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
Tim wrote:
On Jun 22, 8:56 am, HK wrote: wf3h wrote: On Jun 22, 6:20 am, Jim24242 wrote: That's good news for Harry Krause, isn't it. The fear and intimidation you suffer at the prospect of being asked to consider a moral, ethical, and religious life must have you shakin in your boots except, of course, the s. baptists have never come close to living a moral ethical and religious life. the church was founded as a proslavery church in 1845 and has opposed freedom for anyone ever since...in the name of god. it's also america's leading pro- creationism church IOW it's wrong about everything. An absolutely backwards "bunch" of religious zealots, doing "the devil's work" wherever it can. That floridajim believes they're moral and ethical says even more about him than it does about the white southern baptists. What about the Black Southern Baptists, Harry? There's lots of them. Harry's OK with black folks. He just doesn't like white folks very much. Pretty strange huh? |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
On Jun 22, 6:23*pm, HK wrote:
Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:06 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:02 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 8:56 am, HK wrote: wf3h wrote: On Jun 22, 6:20 am, Jim24242 wrote: That's good news for Harry Krause, isn't it. The fear and intimidation you suffer at the prospect of being asked to consider a moral, ethical, and religious life must have you shakin in your boots except, of course, the s. baptists have never come close to living a moral ethical and religious life. the church was founded as a proslavery church in 1845 and has opposed freedom for anyone ever since...in the name of god. it's also america's leading pro- creationism church IOW it's wrong about everything. An absolutely backwards "bunch" of religious zealots, doing "the devil's work" wherever it can. That floridajim believes they're moral and ethical says even more about him than it does about the white southern baptists. What about the Black Southern Baptists, Harry? *There's lots of them. Different organization. nope. Yup. Nope. and what do you think is the objective of a Southern Baptist "Missionary" Hospital? Proselytizing. "Proselytizing.?" Surely you can do better than that, Harry. I'd say it never occurred to you that the Christian (Catholic and Protestant) Churches main mission is to do the will of Jesus. James 2:14 Dear brothers, what's the use of saying that you have faith and are Christians if you aren't proving it by helping others? Will that kind of faith save anyone? James 2:15 If you have a friend who is in need of food and clothing, and you say to him, "Well, good-bye and God bless you; stay warm and eat hearty," and then don't give him clothes or food, what good does that do? James 2:17 So you see, it isn't enough just to have faith. You must also do good to prove that you have it. Faith that doesn't show itself by good works is no faith at all--it is dead and useless. James 2:20 Fool! When will you ever learn that "believing" is useless without doing what God wants you to? Faith that does not result in good deeds is not real faith. Just a few of the references Harry. But I don't expect you to believe any of it. It's not your nature. |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
Tim wrote:
On Jun 22, 6:23 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:06 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:02 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 8:56 am, HK wrote: wf3h wrote: On Jun 22, 6:20 am, Jim24242 wrote: That's good news for Harry Krause, isn't it. The fear and intimidation you suffer at the prospect of being asked to consider a moral, ethical, and religious life must have you shakin in your boots except, of course, the s. baptists have never come close to living a moral ethical and religious life. the church was founded as a proslavery church in 1845 and has opposed freedom for anyone ever since...in the name of god. it's also america's leading pro- creationism church IOW it's wrong about everything. An absolutely backwards "bunch" of religious zealots, doing "the devil's work" wherever it can. That floridajim believes they're moral and ethical says even more about him than it does about the white southern baptists. What about the Black Southern Baptists, Harry? There's lots of them. Different organization. nope. Yup. Nope. and what do you think is the objective of a Southern Baptist "Missionary" Hospital? Proselytizing. "Proselytizing.?" Surely you can do better than that, Harry. I'd say it never occurred to you that the Christian (Catholic and Protestant) Churches main mission is to do the will of Jesus. James 2:14 Dear brothers, what's the use of saying that you have faith and are Christians if you aren't proving it by helping others? Will that kind of faith save anyone? James 2:15 If you have a friend who is in need of food and clothing, and you say to him, "Well, good-bye and God bless you; stay warm and eat hearty," and then don't give him clothes or food, what good does that do? James 2:17 So you see, it isn't enough just to have faith. You must also do good to prove that you have it. Faith that doesn't show itself by good works is no faith at all--it is dead and useless. James 2:20 Fool! When will you ever learn that "believing" is useless without doing what God wants you to? Faith that does not result in good deeds is not real faith. Just a few of the references Harry. But I don't expect you to believe any of it. It's not your nature. As I stated, the main purpose of the missions of the southern baptists is to proselytize. |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
On Jun 22, 6:56*pm, jps wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 15:40:49 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 8:28*am, "mmc" wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... * Southern Baptists look for cures to stagnation 'Great Commission Resurgence' » Leaders will present declaration at annual meeting this week. By Adelle M. Banks Religion News Service Salt Lake Tribune 02:56:55 PM MDT Decades of painful conservative-moderate fights. Stagnant baptism rates. Membership malaise. Surveying the state of the Southern Baptist Convention, seminary president Danny Akin can sum it all up in six words: "Business as usual is not working." Seeking to turn things around for the nation's largest Protestant body, Akin has teamed with SBC President Johnny Hunt to draft a "Great Commission Resurgence" declaration that will be presented to the Baptists' annual meeting June 23-24 in Louisville, Ky. The goal is to find a new way forward after several high-profile campaigns to boost the number of baptisms -- a key measure of vitality and an article of faith for Baptists -- fell flat. Hunt told one Baptist newspaper that the SBC is like a ship that is "adrift" and needs to consider ridding itself of unnecessary "cargo." For the Rev. Micah Fries, a 30-year-old pastor of a Southern Baptist church in St. Joseph, Mo., such analogies are appropriate for a denomination that has grown in size and bureaucracy in its more than 150 years of history. "We need to lose some excessive baggage," he said, noting a worrisome $30 million shortfall in an international missions offering that will reduce the number of missionaries deployed oversees. Reduce the number of missionaries? When I met a family of SB missionaries in post war Croatia, my first thought was "just what these people (Croats) need- another f-ing religion" When I met SB missionaries in Al Hilla, Iraq in 2003, the first thing that hit was that we'd end up finding them in the desert without thier heads. Don't know if they were intact when they left, but going door to door and telling Muslims they got it all wrong doesn't seem like something to put on the 'ol life insurance form. Mike, The missionaries don't go "door-to-door" to the muslims. Usually the Muslims come to them. and the misionaries don't normally lose their heads. they get shot. http://www.christianaction.org.za/ar...REE_MISSIONARY... oddly enough. the missionaries treated a young man about two weeks earlier, and this is how he responded to the missionaries and their clinic. Yes, free food and medical attention do wonders to ingratiate followers to a sect. *bin Laden uses the same tactics. *We'd have won the war several years ago if we'd have taken over Afghanistan with food, medicine and books. Unfortunately, that's not the business of the US. *We're in the arms business.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Well, that post pretty much proves you are not paying attention, or making it up as you go along. Both of which are about equally presumable in your case... |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:38:11 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote: On Jun 22, 6:23*pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:06 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:02 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 8:56 am, HK wrote: wf3h wrote: On Jun 22, 6:20 am, Jim24242 wrote: That's good news for Harry Krause, isn't it. The fear and intimidation you suffer at the prospect of being asked to consider a moral, ethical, and religious life must have you shakin in your boots except, of course, the s. baptists have never come close to living a moral ethical and religious life. the church was founded as a proslavery church in 1845 and has opposed freedom for anyone ever since...in the name of god. it's also america's leading pro- creationism church IOW it's wrong about everything. An absolutely backwards "bunch" of religious zealots, doing "the devil's work" wherever it can. That floridajim believes they're moral and ethical says even more about him than it does about the white southern baptists. What about the Black Southern Baptists, Harry? *There's lots of them. Different organization. nope. Yup. Nope. and what do you think is the objective of a Southern Baptist "Missionary" Hospital? Proselytizing. "Proselytizing.?" Surely you can do better than that, Harry. I'd say it never occurred to you that the Christian (Catholic and Protestant) Churches main mission is to do the will of Jesus. James 2:14 Dear brothers, what's the use of saying that you have faith and are Christians if you aren't proving it by helping others? Will that kind of faith save anyone? James 2:15 If you have a friend who is in need of food and clothing, and you say to him, "Well, good-bye and God bless you; stay warm and eat hearty," and then don't give him clothes or food, what good does that do? James 2:17 So you see, it isn't enough just to have faith. You must also do good to prove that you have it. Faith that doesn't show itself by good works is no faith at all--it is dead and useless. James 2:20 Fool! When will you ever learn that "believing" is useless without doing what God wants you to? Faith that does not result in good deeds is not real faith. Just a few of the references Harry. But I don't expect you to believe any of it. It's not your nature. WTF do any of the above quotes have to do with missionary work or proselytizing on behalf of Christianity? It's an endeavor that seeks to enrich the organization more than spreading Jesus' teachings. You're supposed to live and be guided by his spirit, not try to sell his way. Anyone who has a beef with unions trying to enrich their organizations should have a major problem with missionaries. Bunch of whoey. My favorite is the missionaries who hunted aboriginals with the aim of converting them just before putting them to death in order to send them onto Jesus. ****ing insanity that continues today in a somewhat benign manner. |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
On Jun 23, 12:13*am, jps wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:38:11 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:23*pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:06 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:02 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 8:56 am, HK wrote: wf3h wrote: On Jun 22, 6:20 am, Jim24242 wrote: That's good news for Harry Krause, isn't it. The fear and intimidation you suffer at the prospect of being asked to consider a moral, ethical, and religious life must have you shakin in your boots except, of course, the s. baptists have never come close to living a moral ethical and religious life. the church was founded as a proslavery church in 1845 and has opposed freedom for anyone ever since...in the name of god. it's also america's leading pro- creationism church IOW it's wrong about everything. An absolutely backwards "bunch" of religious zealots, doing "the devil's work" wherever it can. That floridajim believes they're moral and ethical says even more about him than it does about the white southern baptists. What about the Black Southern Baptists, Harry? *There's lots of them. Different organization. nope. Yup. Nope. and what do you think is the objective of a Southern Baptist "Missionary" Hospital? Proselytizing. "Proselytizing.?" Surely you can do better than that, Harry. I'd say it never occurred to you that the Christian (Catholic and Protestant) *Churches main mission is to do the will of Jesus. *James 2:14 * Dear brothers, what's the use of saying that you have faith and are Christians if you aren't proving it by helping others? Will that kind of faith save anyone? James 2:15 *If you have a friend who is in need of food and clothing, * and you say to him, "Well, good-bye and God bless you; stay warm and eat hearty," and then don't give him clothes or food, what good does that do? James 2:17 So you see, it isn't enough just to have faith. You must also do good to prove that you have it. Faith that doesn't show itself by good works is no faith at all--it is dead and useless. James 2:20 Fool! When will you ever learn that "believing" is useless without doing what God wants you to? Faith that does not result in good deeds is not real faith. Just a few of the references Harry. But I don't expect you to believe any of it. It's not your nature. WTF do any of the above quotes have to do with missionary work or proselytizing on behalf of Christianity? It's an endeavor that seeks to enrich the organization more than spreading Jesus' teachings. *You're supposed to live and be guided by his spirit, not try to sell his way. Anyone who has a beef with unions trying to enrich their organizations should have a major problem with missionaries. Bunch of whoey. My favorite is the missionaries who hunted aboriginals with the aim of converting them just before putting them to death in order to send them onto Jesus. ****ing insanity that continues today in a somewhat benign manner. Of course you would think so. |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 23:00:13 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote: On Jun 23, 12:13*am, jps wrote: On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:38:11 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:23*pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:06 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:02 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 8:56 am, HK wrote: wf3h wrote: On Jun 22, 6:20 am, Jim24242 wrote: That's good news for Harry Krause, isn't it. The fear and intimidation you suffer at the prospect of being asked to consider a moral, ethical, and religious life must have you shakin in your boots except, of course, the s. baptists have never come close to living a moral ethical and religious life. the church was founded as a proslavery church in 1845 and has opposed freedom for anyone ever since...in the name of god. it's also america's leading pro- creationism church IOW it's wrong about everything. An absolutely backwards "bunch" of religious zealots, doing "the devil's work" wherever it can. That floridajim believes they're moral and ethical says even more about him than it does about the white southern baptists. What about the Black Southern Baptists, Harry? *There's lots of them. Different organization. nope. Yup. Nope. and what do you think is the objective of a Southern Baptist "Missionary" Hospital? Proselytizing. "Proselytizing.?" Surely you can do better than that, Harry. I'd say it never occurred to you that the Christian (Catholic and Protestant) *Churches main mission is to do the will of Jesus. *James 2:14 * Dear brothers, what's the use of saying that you have faith and are Christians if you aren't proving it by helping others? Will that kind of faith save anyone? James 2:15 *If you have a friend who is in need of food and clothing, * and you say to him, "Well, good-bye and God bless you; stay warm and eat hearty," and then don't give him clothes or food, what good does that do? James 2:17 So you see, it isn't enough just to have faith. You must also do good to prove that you have it. Faith that doesn't show itself by good works is no faith at all--it is dead and useless. James 2:20 Fool! When will you ever learn that "believing" is useless without doing what God wants you to? Faith that does not result in good deeds is not real faith. Just a few of the references Harry. But I don't expect you to believe any of it. It's not your nature. WTF do any of the above quotes have to do with missionary work or proselytizing on behalf of Christianity? It's an endeavor that seeks to enrich the organization more than spreading Jesus' teachings. *You're supposed to live and be guided by his spirit, not try to sell his way. Anyone who has a beef with unions trying to enrich their organizations should have a major problem with missionaries. Bunch of whoey. My favorite is the missionaries who hunted aboriginals with the aim of converting them just before putting them to death in order to send them onto Jesus. ****ing insanity that continues today in a somewhat benign manner. Of course you would think so. I have good reason. More have died in the name of Jesus than any other "cause." |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
On Jun 23, 1:53*am, jps wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 23:00:13 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: On Jun 23, 12:13*am, jps wrote: On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:38:11 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:23*pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:06 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:02 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 8:56 am, HK wrote: wf3h wrote: On Jun 22, 6:20 am, Jim24242 wrote: That's good news for Harry Krause, isn't it. The fear and intimidation you suffer at the prospect of being asked to consider a moral, ethical, and religious life must have you shakin in your boots except, of course, the s. baptists have never come close to living a moral ethical and religious life. the church was founded as a proslavery church in 1845 and has opposed freedom for anyone ever since...in the name of god. it's also america's leading pro- creationism church IOW it's wrong about everything. An absolutely backwards "bunch" of religious zealots, doing "the devil's work" wherever it can. That floridajim believes they're moral and ethical says even more about him than it does about the white southern baptists. What about the Black Southern Baptists, Harry? *There's lots of them. Different organization. nope. Yup. Nope. and what do you think is the objective of a Southern Baptist "Missionary" Hospital? Proselytizing. "Proselytizing.?" Surely you can do better than that, Harry. I'd say it never occurred to you that the Christian (Catholic and Protestant) *Churches main mission is to do the will of Jesus. *James 2:14 * Dear brothers, what's the use of saying that you have faith and are Christians if you aren't proving it by helping others? Will that kind of faith save anyone? James 2:15 *If you have a friend who is in need of food and clothing, * and you say to him, "Well, good-bye and God bless you; stay warm and eat hearty," and then don't give him clothes or food, what good does that do? James 2:17 So you see, it isn't enough just to have faith. You must also do good to prove that you have it. Faith that doesn't show itself by good works is no faith at all--it is dead and useless. James 2:20 Fool! When will you ever learn that "believing" is useless without doing what God wants you to? Faith that does not result in good deeds is not real faith. Just a few of the references Harry. But I don't expect you to believe any of it. It's not your nature. WTF do any of the above quotes have to do with missionary work or proselytizing on behalf of Christianity? It's an endeavor that seeks to enrich the organization more than spreading Jesus' teachings. *You're supposed to live and be guided by his spirit, not try to sell his way. Anyone who has a beef with unions trying to enrich their organizations should have a major problem with missionaries. Bunch of whoey. My favorite is the missionaries who hunted aboriginals with the aim of converting them just before putting them to death in order to send them onto Jesus. ****ing insanity that continues today in a somewhat benign manner. Of course you would think so. I have good reason. More have died in the name of Jesus than any other "cause." Hmmm yeah. If that's what you wish to believe, then I suppose you need to stay locked in your house and not ever venture outside, and keep a 9mm close by. you never know when some christian will come knocking at your door. |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
Tim wrote:
On Jun 23, 1:53 am, jps wrote: On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 23:00:13 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: On Jun 23, 12:13 am, jps wrote: On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:38:11 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:23 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:06 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:02 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 8:56 am, HK wrote: wf3h wrote: On Jun 22, 6:20 am, Jim24242 wrote: That's good news for Harry Krause, isn't it. The fear and intimidation you suffer at the prospect of being asked to consider a moral, ethical, and religious life must have you shakin in your boots except, of course, the s. baptists have never come close to living a moral ethical and religious life. the church was founded as a proslavery church in 1845 and has opposed freedom for anyone ever since...in the name of god. it's also america's leading pro- creationism church IOW it's wrong about everything. An absolutely backwards "bunch" of religious zealots, doing "the devil's work" wherever it can. That floridajim believes they're moral and ethical says even more about him than it does about the white southern baptists. What about the Black Southern Baptists, Harry? There's lots of them. Different organization. nope. Yup. Nope. and what do you think is the objective of a Southern Baptist "Missionary" Hospital? Proselytizing. "Proselytizing.?" Surely you can do better than that, Harry. I'd say it never occurred to you that the Christian (Catholic and Protestant) Churches main mission is to do the will of Jesus. James 2:14 Dear brothers, what's the use of saying that you have faith and are Christians if you aren't proving it by helping others? Will that kind of faith save anyone? James 2:15 If you have a friend who is in need of food and clothing, and you say to him, "Well, good-bye and God bless you; stay warm and eat hearty," and then don't give him clothes or food, what good does that do? James 2:17 So you see, it isn't enough just to have faith. You must also do good to prove that you have it. Faith that doesn't show itself by good works is no faith at all--it is dead and useless. James 2:20 Fool! When will you ever learn that "believing" is useless without doing what God wants you to? Faith that does not result in good deeds is not real faith. Just a few of the references Harry. But I don't expect you to believe any of it. It's not your nature. WTF do any of the above quotes have to do with missionary work or proselytizing on behalf of Christianity? It's an endeavor that seeks to enrich the organization more than spreading Jesus' teachings. You're supposed to live and be guided by his spirit, not try to sell his way. Anyone who has a beef with unions trying to enrich their organizations should have a major problem with missionaries. Bunch of whoey. My favorite is the missionaries who hunted aboriginals with the aim of converting them just before putting them to death in order to send them onto Jesus. ****ing insanity that continues today in a somewhat benign manner. Of course you would think so. I have good reason. More have died in the name of Jesus than any other "cause." Hmmm yeah. If that's what you wish to believe, then I suppose you need to stay locked in your house and not ever venture outside, and keep a 9mm close by. you never know when some christian will come knocking at your door. That's not the point, tim. The fact remains that in many underdeveloped countries, especially in central and south america, evangelical christians use the "help" they offer impoverished native peoples as a hook to "convert" them to the protestant form of christianity de jour. I have a couple of relatives by marriage who support these efforts with contributions and trips to these countries to "help," and I have listened to their tales and seen their newsletters. Well, I used to...they stopped telling me about these conversion efforts after I told them many times I thought the practice was disgusting on many levels. It's weird, too, because several times it was obvious that Roman Catholics were being converted to protestantism...apparently the simpie evangelicals, many of them, try to promote the idea that the Catholics are *not* christians. To me, evangelical christians seem very insecure in their relgious beliefs. Those who remain unconverted seem a threat to the born-agains. Reminds me of the Borg Collective from the old Star Trek shows. "Assimilate...resistance is futile..." Well, screw that. |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
On Jun 23, 5:17*am, HK wrote:
Tim wrote: On Jun 23, 1:53 am, jps wrote: On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 23:00:13 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: On Jun 23, 12:13 am, jps wrote: On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:38:11 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:23 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:06 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:02 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 8:56 am, HK wrote: wf3h wrote: On Jun 22, 6:20 am, Jim24242 wrote: That's good news for Harry Krause, isn't it. The fear and intimidation you suffer at the prospect of being asked to consider a moral, ethical, and religious life must have you shakin in your boots except, of course, the s. baptists have never come close to living a moral ethical and religious life. the church was founded as a proslavery church in 1845 and has opposed freedom for anyone ever since...in the name of god. it's also america's leading pro- creationism church IOW it's wrong about everything. An absolutely backwards "bunch" of religious zealots, doing "the devil's work" wherever it can. That floridajim believes they're moral and ethical says even more about him than it does about the white southern baptists. What about the Black Southern Baptists, Harry? *There's lots of them. Different organization. nope. Yup. Nope. and what do you think is the objective of a Southern Baptist "Missionary" Hospital? Proselytizing. "Proselytizing.?" Surely you can do better than that, Harry. I'd say it never occurred to you that the Christian (Catholic and Protestant) *Churches main mission is to do the will of Jesus. *James 2:14 * Dear brothers, what's the use of saying that you have faith and are Christians if you aren't proving it by helping others? Will that kind of faith save anyone? James 2:15 *If you have a friend who is in need of food and clothing, * and you say to him, "Well, good-bye and God bless you; stay warm and eat hearty," and then don't give him clothes or food, what good does that do? James 2:17 So you see, it isn't enough just to have faith. You must also do good to prove that you have it. Faith that doesn't show itself by good works is no faith at all--it is dead and useless. James 2:20 Fool! When will you ever learn that "believing" is useless without doing what God wants you to? Faith that does not result in good deeds is not real faith. Just a few of the references Harry. But I don't expect you to believe any of it. It's not your nature. WTF do any of the above quotes have to do with missionary work or proselytizing on behalf of Christianity? It's an endeavor that seeks to enrich the organization more than spreading Jesus' teachings. *You're supposed to live and be guided by his spirit, not try to sell his way. Anyone who has a beef with unions trying to enrich their organizations should have a major problem with missionaries. Bunch of whoey. My favorite is the missionaries who hunted aboriginals with the aim of converting them just before putting them to death in order to send them onto Jesus. ****ing insanity that continues today in a somewhat benign manner. Of course you would think so. I have good reason. More have died in the name of Jesus than any other "cause." Hmmm *yeah. If that's what you wish to believe, then I suppose you need to stay locked in your house and not ever venture outside, and keep a 9mm close by. you never know when some christian will come knocking at your door. That's not the point, tim. The fact remains that in many underdeveloped countries, especially in central and south america, evangelical christians use the "help" they offer impoverished native peoples as a hook to "convert" them to the protestant form of christianity de jour. I have a couple of relatives by marriage who support these efforts with contributions and trips to these countries to "help," and I have listened to their tales and seen their newsletters. Well, I used to...they stopped telling me about these conversion efforts after I told them many times I thought the practice was disgusting on many levels. It's weird, too, because several times it was obvious that Roman Catholics were being converted to protestantism...apparently the simpie evangelicals, many of them, try to promote the idea that the Catholics are *not* christians. To me, evangelical christians seem very insecure in their relgious beliefs. Those who remain unconverted seem a threat to the born-agains. Reminds me of the Borg Collective from the old Star Trek shows. "Assimilate...resistance is futile..." Well, screw that. harry, I have a brother and sister-in-law who have done the same in Panama for years. sister-in-law is a dentist/LPN who has worked very extensively with Guaymi indians for years. My brother builds clinics and church's (Oops". I meant to say "COMPOUNDS!") their kids come up here and finish high school then go back. My family members have no insecurity in their faith. Of course they're not really living in a hostile part of the world. Harry, for those who feel threatened by Christianity. I feel sorry for. If people like like my family members don't do anything to help who they do. Then who will? the government? |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
Tim wrote:
On Jun 23, 5:17 am, HK wrote: That's not the point, tim. The fact remains that in many underdeveloped countries, especially in central and south america, evangelical christians use the "help" they offer impoverished native peoples as a hook to "convert" them to the protestant form of christianity de jour. I have a couple of relatives by marriage who support these efforts with contributions and trips to these countries to "help," and I have listened to their tales and seen their newsletters. Well, I used to...they stopped telling me about these conversion efforts after I told them many times I thought the practice was disgusting on many levels. It's weird, too, because several times it was obvious that Roman Catholics were being converted to protestantism...apparently the simpie evangelicals, many of them, try to promote the idea that the Catholics are *not* christians. To me, evangelical christians seem very insecure in their relgious beliefs. Those who remain unconverted seem a threat to the born-agains. Reminds me of the Borg Collective from the old Star Trek shows. "Assimilate...resistance is futile..." Well, screw that. harry, I have a brother and sister-in-law who have done the same in Panama for years. sister-in-law is a dentist/LPN who has worked very extensively with Guaymi indians for years. My brother builds clinics and church's (Oops". I meant to say "COMPOUNDS!") their kids come up here and finish high school then go back. My family members have no insecurity in their faith. Of course they're not really living in a hostile part of the world. Harry, for those who feel threatened by Christianity. I feel sorry for. If people like like my family members don't do anything to help who they do. Then who will? the government? Gee, tim...i dunno. My dentist is gone in july and august (his partners handle emergencies) every year. He goes to underserved asian countries (he's korean) to fix the teeth of kids who have no way to pay for such services. He sure as hell isn't serving up religion with his dentistry. Sorry, tim, but I am no fan of evangelizing, *especially* among unsophisticated native populations. I am sure the Ngäbe appreciate the dental work, and they'd probably appreciate it more without the efforts of evangelicals to sell them jesus and in the process destroy their culture. |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
HK wrote:
Tim wrote: On Jun 23, 1:53 am, jps wrote: On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 23:00:13 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: On Jun 23, 12:13 am, jps wrote: On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:38:11 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:23 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:06 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:02 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 8:56 am, HK wrote: wf3h wrote: On Jun 22, 6:20 am, Jim24242 wrote: That's good news for Harry Krause, isn't it. The fear and intimidation you suffer at the prospect of being asked to consider a moral, ethical, and religious life must have you shakin in your boots except, of course, the s. baptists have never come close to living a moral ethical and religious life. the church was founded as a proslavery church in 1845 and has opposed freedom for anyone ever since...in the name of god. it's also america's leading pro- creationism church IOW it's wrong about everything. An absolutely backwards "bunch" of religious zealots, doing "the devil's work" wherever it can. That floridajim believes they're moral and ethical says even more about him than it does about the white southern baptists. What about the Black Southern Baptists, Harry? There's lots of them. Different organization. nope. Yup. Nope. and what do you think is the objective of a Southern Baptist "Missionary" Hospital? Proselytizing. "Proselytizing.?" Surely you can do better than that, Harry. I'd say it never occurred to you that the Christian (Catholic and Protestant) Churches main mission is to do the will of Jesus. James 2:14 Dear brothers, what's the use of saying that you have faith and are Christians if you aren't proving it by helping others? Will that kind of faith save anyone? James 2:15 If you have a friend who is in need of food and clothing, and you say to him, "Well, good-bye and God bless you; stay warm and eat hearty," and then don't give him clothes or food, what good does that do? James 2:17 So you see, it isn't enough just to have faith. You must also do good to prove that you have it. Faith that doesn't show itself by good works is no faith at all--it is dead and useless. James 2:20 Fool! When will you ever learn that "believing" is useless without doing what God wants you to? Faith that does not result in good deeds is not real faith. Just a few of the references Harry. But I don't expect you to believe any of it. It's not your nature. WTF do any of the above quotes have to do with missionary work or proselytizing on behalf of Christianity? It's an endeavor that seeks to enrich the organization more than spreading Jesus' teachings. You're supposed to live and be guided by his spirit, not try to sell his way. Anyone who has a beef with unions trying to enrich their organizations should have a major problem with missionaries. Bunch of whoey. My favorite is the missionaries who hunted aboriginals with the aim of converting them just before putting them to death in order to send them onto Jesus. ****ing insanity that continues today in a somewhat benign manner. Of course you would think so. I have good reason. More have died in the name of Jesus than any other "cause." Hmmm yeah. If that's what you wish to believe, then I suppose you need to stay locked in your house and not ever venture outside, and keep a 9mm close by. you never know when some christian will come knocking at your door. That's not the point, tim. The fact remains that in many underdeveloped countries, especially in central and south america, evangelical christians use the "help" they offer impoverished native peoples as a hook to "convert" them to the protestant form of christianity de jour. I have a couple of relatives by marriage who support these efforts with contributions and trips to these countries to "help," and I have listened to their tales and seen their newsletters. Well, I used to...they stopped telling me about these conversion efforts after I told them many times I thought the practice was disgusting on many levels. It's weird, too, because several times it was obvious that Roman Catholics were being converted to protestantism...apparently the simpie evangelicals, many of them, try to promote the idea that the Catholics are *not* christians. To me, evangelical christians seem very insecure in their relgious beliefs. Those who remain unconverted seem a threat to the born-agains. Reminds me of the Borg Collective from the old Star Trek shows. "Assimilate...resistance is futile..." Well, screw that. Delicious. His wife's relatives won't even speak to him. Harry, will you ever learn to stifel. |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
Tim wrote:
On Jun 23, 5:17 am, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 23, 1:53 am, jps wrote: On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 23:00:13 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: On Jun 23, 12:13 am, jps wrote: On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:38:11 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:23 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:06 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:02 pm, HK wrote: Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 8:56 am, HK wrote: wf3h wrote: On Jun 22, 6:20 am, Jim24242 wrote: That's good news for Harry Krause, isn't it. The fear and intimidation you suffer at the prospect of being asked to consider a moral, ethical, and religious life must have you shakin in your boots except, of course, the s. baptists have never come close to living a moral ethical and religious life. the church was founded as a proslavery church in 1845 and has opposed freedom for anyone ever since...in the name of god. it's also america's leading pro- creationism church IOW it's wrong about everything. An absolutely backwards "bunch" of religious zealots, doing "the devil's work" wherever it can. That floridajim believes they're moral and ethical says even more about him than it does about the white southern baptists. What about the Black Southern Baptists, Harry? There's lots of them. Different organization. nope. Yup. Nope. and what do you think is the objective of a Southern Baptist "Missionary" Hospital? Proselytizing. "Proselytizing.?" Surely you can do better than that, Harry. I'd say it never occurred to you that the Christian (Catholic and Protestant) Churches main mission is to do the will of Jesus. James 2:14 Dear brothers, what's the use of saying that you have faith and are Christians if you aren't proving it by helping others? Will that kind of faith save anyone? James 2:15 If you have a friend who is in need of food and clothing, and you say to him, "Well, good-bye and God bless you; stay warm and eat hearty," and then don't give him clothes or food, what good does that do? James 2:17 So you see, it isn't enough just to have faith. You must also do good to prove that you have it. Faith that doesn't show itself by good works is no faith at all--it is dead and useless. James 2:20 Fool! When will you ever learn that "believing" is useless without doing what God wants you to? Faith that does not result in good deeds is not real faith. Just a few of the references Harry. But I don't expect you to believe any of it. It's not your nature. WTF do any of the above quotes have to do with missionary work or proselytizing on behalf of Christianity? It's an endeavor that seeks to enrich the organization more than spreading Jesus' teachings. You're supposed to live and be guided by his spirit, not try to sell his way. Anyone who has a beef with unions trying to enrich their organizations should have a major problem with missionaries. Bunch of whoey. My favorite is the missionaries who hunted aboriginals with the aim of converting them just before putting them to death in order to send them onto Jesus. ****ing insanity that continues today in a somewhat benign manner. Of course you would think so. I have good reason. More have died in the name of Jesus than any other "cause." Hmmm yeah. If that's what you wish to believe, then I suppose you need to stay locked in your house and not ever venture outside, and keep a 9mm close by. you never know when some christian will come knocking at your door. That's not the point, tim. The fact remains that in many underdeveloped countries, especially in central and south america, evangelical christians use the "help" they offer impoverished native peoples as a hook to "convert" them to the protestant form of christianity de jour. I have a couple of relatives by marriage who support these efforts with contributions and trips to these countries to "help," and I have listened to their tales and seen their newsletters. Well, I used to...they stopped telling me about these conversion efforts after I told them many times I thought the practice was disgusting on many levels. It's weird, too, because several times it was obvious that Roman Catholics were being converted to protestantism...apparently the simpie evangelicals, many of them, try to promote the idea that the Catholics are *not* christians. To me, evangelical christians seem very insecure in their relgious beliefs. Those who remain unconverted seem a threat to the born-agains. Reminds me of the Borg Collective from the old Star Trek shows. "Assimilate...resistance is futile..." Well, screw that. harry, I have a brother and sister-in-law who have done the same in Panama for years. sister-in-law is a dentist/LPN who has worked very extensively with Guaymi indians for years. My brother builds clinics and church's (Oops". I meant to say "COMPOUNDS!") their kids come up here and finish high school then go back. My family members have no insecurity in their faith. Of course they're not really living in a hostile part of the world. Harry, for those who feel threatened by Christianity. I feel sorry for. If people like like my family members don't do anything to help who they do. Then who will? the government? Of course the government. Hope and change, remember? |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
On Jun 22, 10:47*am, "JustWaitAFrekinMinute!"
wrote: On Jun 22, 8:06*am, Tim wrote: On Jun 22, 6:50*am, wf3h wrote: IOW it's wrong about everything. I very much disagree with you , but I won't argue about it. I wonder why seemingly good people, and of course assholes like Harry feel the need to push their anti-Christian bigotry on everyone whenever they find a remote opening, or even make one up? Why must they shove their "religion" down our throats all the time... * * Oh, but we can't talk about ours, that would hurt their feelings and they would want to take us to court snerk In other words, why are they so hypocritical? the s. baptists are anything but christian. |
Death of a religious sect on the horizon?
Tim wrote:
If people like like my family members don't do anything to help who they do. Then who will? the government? By now, Tim, you should know the answer is the government. That is Harry's religion, more specifically, the democratic party. Johnson |
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