Just had a bunch of local science teachers visit here to see how
things are done in an environment like this. They asked me what I
thought of science and math education and I told them that science and
especially math are taught as if it existed apart from life. It
should be taught showing how it is used every day for things. High
school level math can be used for most engineering and optics design
without any calculus. Kids are bored silly at how it is taught today
and I never learned anything in science in high school. All of my
math was essentially self taught before college. All I know about
electronics was self taught.
We were talking about inventing and on e teacher said she wanted to
invent a tiny outboard motor that was not internal combustion for use
by kayakers, AHA, that is THE application for my H2O2 powered micro-
turbine idea.

Frogwatch wrote:
Just had a bunch of local science teachers visit here to see how
things are done in an environment like this. They asked me what I
thought of science and math education and I told them that science and
especially math are taught as if it existed apart from life. It
should be taught showing how it is used every day for things. High
school level math can be used for most engineering and optics design
without any calculus. Kids are bored silly at how it is taught today
and I never learned anything in science in high school. All of my
math was essentially self taught before college. All I know about
electronics was self taught.
We were talking about inventing and on e teacher said she wanted to
invent a tiny outboard motor that was not internal combustion for use
by kayakers, AHA, that is THE application for my H2O2 powered micro-
turbine idea.

For $300 you can buy an electric kayak motor with a range of almost 25
miles.


--
"John H" wrote in message
...

Please note that Interstate 90 will be closed this weekend across
South Dakota. This closure will allow the Federal Government free
access to haul a 200 ton piece of coal to Mt. Rushmore so that
President Obama can be added to the Presidents on the monument.
--
John H

--

John Herring, rec.boat's resident racist.

On Jun 18, 12:10*pm, HK wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
Just had a bunch of local science teachers visit here to see how
things are done in an environment like this. *They asked me what I
thought of science and math education and I told them that science and
especially math are taught as if it existed apart from life. *It
should be taught showing how it is used every day for things. *High
school level math can be used for most engineering and optics design
without any calculus. *Kids are bored silly at how it is taught today
and I never learned anything in science in high school. *All of my
math was essentially self taught before college. *All I know about
electronics was self taught.
We were talking about inventing and on e teacher said she wanted to
invent a tiny outboard motor that was not internal combustion for use
by kayakers, AHA, that is THE application for my H2O2 powered micro-
turbine idea.

For $300 you can buy an electric kayak motor with a range of almost 25
miles.

What in hell does that have to do with an H2O2 micro turbine, you
friggin idiot?

Loogypicker wrote:
On Jun 18, 12:10 pm, HK wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
Just had a bunch of local science teachers visit here to see how
things are done in an environment like this. They asked me what I
thought of science and math education and I told them that science and
especially math are taught as if it existed apart from life. It
should be taught showing how it is used every day for things. High
school level math can be used for most engineering and optics design
without any calculus. Kids are bored silly at how it is taught today
and I never learned anything in science in high school. All of my
math was essentially self taught before college. All I know about
electronics was self taught.
We were talking about inventing and on e teacher said she wanted to
invent a tiny outboard motor that was not internal combustion for use
by kayakers, AHA, that is THE application for my H2O2 powered micro-
turbine idea.
For $300 you can buy an electric kayak motor with a range of almost 25
miles.

What in hell does that have to do with an H2O2 micro turbine, you
friggin idiot?

His disease compels him to respond.

On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 16:52:11 -0400, Gene Kearns
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

|Just had a bunch of local science teachers visit here to see how
|things are done in an environment like this. They asked me what I
|thought of science and math education and I told them that science and
|especially math are taught as if it existed apart from life. .... Kids are
|bored silly at how it is taught today and I never learned anything in
|science in high school.

You have to understand how today's education is defined. "Education,"
now, is defined as earning a certain score on a "standardized" test.
"No Child Left Behind" has destroyed any hope of children
understanding the course content, because that is not how
"accountability" and "Adequate Yearly Progress" are defined. My wife
teaches middle school and the 6-8 grade students lost approximately a
month of school due to having to take test after test after test. They
showed great "Adequate Yearly Progress!"

The only problem is that when these students matriculate to the
Community College or University system, (with respect to Reading,
Math, and Composition) approximately 60% can't function at entry level
competence in at least one of the disciplines and 75%+ are not
competent in at least two.

Funny, I taught middle school also. We did the testing in a one week
period. Yes, the test was 'standardized', in that all Virginia
students in that grade and subject took the same test. The test was
designed to determine if the students could meet the objectives of the
program of instruction. If a certain score was not earned, then the
student was deemed not to have met the objectives of the program of
instruction.

It's when there are no standards that children get 'left behind'.
Prior to the act, many states had no standards whatsoever. Now many of
the states are trying to develop a nationwide set of standards. *That*
will probably be a dumbed down mess.
--

John H

On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 17:56:08 -0400, Gene
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 17:01:32 -0400, John H
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 16:52:11 -0400, Gene Kearns
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

|Just had a bunch of local science teachers visit here to see how
|things are done in an environment like this. They asked me what I
|thought of science and math education and I told them that science and
|especially math are taught as if it existed apart from life. .... Kids are
|bored silly at how it is taught today and I never learned anything in
|science in high school.

You have to understand how today's education is defined. "Education,"
now, is defined as earning a certain score on a "standardized" test.
"No Child Left Behind" has destroyed any hope of children
understanding the course content, because that is not how
"accountability" and "Adequate Yearly Progress" are defined. My wife
teaches middle school and the 6-8 grade students lost approximately a
month of school due to having to take test after test after test. They
showed great "Adequate Yearly Progress!"

The only problem is that when these students matriculate to the
Community College or University system, (with respect to Reading,
Math, and Composition) approximately 60% can't function at entry level
competence in at least one of the disciplines and 75%+ are not
competent in at least two.

Funny, I taught middle school also. We did the testing in a one week
period. Yes, the test was 'standardized', in that all Virginia
students in that grade and subject took the same test. The test was
designed to determine if the students could meet the objectives of the
program of instruction. If a certain score was not earned, then the
student was deemed not to have met the objectives of the program of
instruction.

Were all of the students making below the standardized norm retained?

Summer school.

It's when there are no standards that children get 'left behind'.
Prior to the act, many states had no standards whatsoever. Now many of
the states are trying to develop a nationwide set of standards. *That*
will probably be a dumbed down mess.

It's when standards *become* the education that children are left
behind. It already is a dumbed down mess.

To me that makes no sense. How can standards 'become' the education?

The concept makes *plenty* of sense though its execution has always
been a socio-political disaster..... but, then, on the other hand,
what do you do with kids that can't pass the tests? 21 YO in the 6th
grade? Why do we give standardized tests to kids that are so
profoundly disabled that they have no idea what bubbling an answer
sheet is? (Oh, yeah, standards...) (Another argument may be
standardizing education by "mainstreaming".) Why do some states always
score better than NC on reading tests? Smarter kids? Oh, yeah, the
proctors read the test *to* the students. Standards, indeed.... but
they show, uh, more "Adequate Yearly Progress" and, therefore, have
statistical proof that they do a better job than other states..... You
get the idea..... Education becomes a shell game of who lies best
with statistics......

Yes, there are extremes for which the concept doesn't work as well.
Kids that are learning disabled must be treated differently. The vast
majority of kids are not learning disabled.

I don't know why some states score higher than NC in reading tests.
Perhaps the schools have used higher standards than NC for many years.
My brother, who has lived in NC for many years, is absolutely
disgusted with the NC education system. Here are the Virginia
Standards for eighth grade math.

http://www.doe.virginia.gov/go/Sols/math098.pdf

In my county, the push is to have most eighth graders taking Algebra.
Here are the Algebra Standards.

http://www.doe.virginia.gov/go/Sols/math09secondary.pdf

Towards the end of the school year, students are tested to see if they
meet the standards. Teachers do not know what problems are going to be
on the tests, and the tests are administered by computer. Teachers are
monitored during the testing to ensure they don't give assistance to
students. Teachers *are* allowed to use practice tests to help
students prepare for the current test. But, there's not a lot of time
to spend in test preparation unless some of the standards are skipped!

Practice test:

http://education.jlab.org/solquiz/index.html
--
John H

I once shook hands with a pudgy guy who:

Sailed from San Francisco to Hawaii.
Rounded Cape Horn, twice.
Transited the Panama Canal.
Has owned more than 20 boats in his lifetime.
Sailed large boats competitively.
Has been hundreds of miles from land in a powerboat
under his command.

And who set a new record for the most distance covered
and most fish caught in the Chesapeake Bay in the shortest
time!

Gene Kearns wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

|Just had a bunch of local science teachers visit here to see how
|things are done in an environment like this. They asked me what I
|thought of science and math education and I told them that science and
|especially math are taught as if it existed apart from life. .... Kids are
|bored silly at how it is taught today and I never learned anything in
|science in high school.

You have to understand how today's education is defined. "Education,"
now, is defined as earning a certain score on a "standardized" test.
"No Child Left Behind" has destroyed any hope of children
understanding the course content, because that is not how
"accountability" and "Adequate Yearly Progress" are defined. My wife
teaches middle school and the 6-8 grade students lost approximately a
month of school due to having to take test after test after test. They
showed great "Adequate Yearly Progress!"

The only problem is that when these students matriculate to the
Community College or University system, (with respect to Reading,
Math, and Composition) approximately 60% can't function at entry level
competence in at least one of the disciplines and 75%+ are not
competent in at least two.


When my kids came home from middle school and started talking about
BCR's and ECR's I asked them what they were. They are a paragraph and
essay, respectively. Why do they need to change the names with each new
generation? And, now they are going back to calling them paragraphs and
essays.

Also, during a parent teacher conference, during one of my kids
elementary school, I asked the teacher the teacher if there was anything
I read or do to understand how they were teaching math these days. The
teacher told me to buy "Math at Hand" and "Math to Know." Purchasing
these books quickly enabled me and my wife, a scientist, to understand
how this "new math" was being taught. Why didn't they suggest that we co
out and buy this book at the beginning of third grade.