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jps

On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 20:50:46 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:01:56 -0400, wrote:

That is the part they don't want to talk about. People expect the same
level of service but they deny how much it will cost. If you add
41,000,000 uninsured to the system, at the same level of service,
overall cost will go up by a proportional amount. If you assume a
significant number of these families can't afford $8,000-10,000 a
year, that will get passed along to those who can. Even Obama is out
there trying to tell people this is not going to be "free" medical
care, but they won't actually put real numbers to it.

I've heard the Reps say that there "EVERYBODY ALREADY HAS HEALTH
CARE!!" Nobody is turned away from the emergency room.
Then the Dems say that expensive emergency room health care is one
reason why premiums are so high.
And that those now using emergency room will have to kick into the
system under the new plan. But they won't be using the expensive
e-room services.
I don't know what the real answer is.

When I run my 1040 against the Ontario tax code,(the easiest one to
find on the net) I do get an idea. It is a 35% tax hike for me.
The idea that creating a huge bureaucracy in the government is cheaper
than the private sector is simply not borne out with experience in
other sectors.

I've heard that Medicare has far less bureaucratic cost then private
health insurance.
Our private health insurance costs are over 25% of gross wages.
Then you have the rest of the taxes.
Funny thing is, we didn't even see a doctor last year.
Hardly ever went more than once in a year.
6 years ago I had a colonoscopy, and saw the bill.
+$4500. An hour at an out clinic, maybe 20 minutes with the proc doc.
He lasered out 4 benign polyps, and said I needed to come back in a
year. I did, and was clean. Didn't see that bill. Assume it was the
same or more. Probably wasn't supposed to see the first bill.
Two years ago I went in for a physical, mostly because we're paying so
much money for insurance. The doc scheduled me for a 3-year followup
colonscopy. Didn't go, and didn't even see a doc last year.
I'll bite the bullet this year and see the doc for a physical, and
reschedule the colonoscopy. Two years late.
One of things you often hear is that if everybody is insured the
system will be overloaded. I highly doubt that, since most folks just
don't want to go to a doctor.
That's one of the problems I see with the "prevention" aspect of
current proposals. That's where having a doc will guide you to a
healthier lifestye.
It might work to some degree, but most folks don't pay any attention
to a doc until they're sick or in pain.
A tax on Twinkies, and maybe sugar, would work better.
I was thinking today about your view that smokers cost the health and
SS system less because smokers die early.
And here the gov is trying to stop folks from smoking.
Don't make sense.

Medicare is going broke, collecting 2.9% of every wage dollar earned
in this country and only paying for care on about 12% of the
population.

Looks like they need to raise medicare taxes to keep it solvent.
The other options are raising other taxes to move money around,
means testing, or just letting those over 65 die slow and painful
deaths.
How do you think it will work out?

--Vic

Agree with most but allow me to add that treating smokers for cancer
and emphysema likely costs the system more that if they lasted years
longer healthy and then croaked quickly.

Don't know the difference in cost between managing smoking related
illnesses to succumbing to other end of life maladies.

jps

On Sat, 13 Jun 2009 02:03:10 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 19:48:56 -0700, jps wrote:

Agree with most but allow me to add that treating smokers for cancer
and emphysema likely costs the system more that if they lasted years
longer healthy and then croaked quickly.

Don't know the difference in cost between managing smoking related
illnesses to succumbing to other end of life maladies.

I have had 2 family members die from smoking related diseases and one
is on the roof as we speak.
They all tended to avoid the doctor and lie to themselves about how
sick they were until the end. Then they went pretty quickly. That is
nothing compared to my non-smoking grandfather who lived to 99 and was
at the doctor all the time for 40 years. (hips, cataracts etc).

Not that I don't appreciate your anecdotes, but I'd prefer to know the
real epidemiology.

Smoking is next to heroin for quitting. My wife quit nearly 20 years
ago and it was among the most difficult things she's done.

The other is marriage.

John H[_2_]

On Sat, 13 Jun 2009 11:25:58 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 13 Jun 2009 00:57:45 -0700, jps wrote:

I have had 2 family members die from smoking related diseases and one
is on the roof as we speak.
They all tended to avoid the doctor and lie to themselves about how
sick they were until the end. Then they went pretty quickly. That is
nothing compared to my non-smoking grandfather who lived to 99 and was
at the doctor all the time for 40 years. (hips, cataracts etc).

Not that I don't appreciate your anecdotes, but I'd prefer to know the
real epidemiology.

Smoking is next to heroin for quitting. My wife quit nearly 20 years
ago and it was among the most difficult things she's done.

The other is marriage.

It is really hard to get any unbiased research on smokers because
everyone involved starts out with the conclusion and works backward
through the data to prove it. That seems to be the definition of a
"study".
I also believe there are lots of smokers who deny it.
I agree it is certainly an addiction. My wife gave up the cigarettes
but she still has a $125 a month gum habit. We buy it from New Zealand
for about half what it costs at the local discount places.
I took the lesson from my grandfather and don't have the nicotine
habit. I do understand the original "buzz" aspect and occasionally I
will smoke a good cigar but I understand that "high" will not happen
if you smoke more than about one a month. You just end up being a
maintenance addict. I actually end up with something like 4 or 5 a
year so I don't mind buying a $10-15 cigar for those special
occasions.

I had the gum habit for several years. Then Nicorette started candy
coating their gum. That was all it took to wean me from it. I switched
to the Orbit gum, which has many of the characteristics of the
Nicorette, but no nicotine. It was actually the chewing of gum I was
addicted to. I had no problem with the switch.
--
John H

"Vote for a Democrat, it's easier than working!"

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