GM next?
 

GM next?
 

GM next?
 

On May 11, 1:58*pm, HK wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2009 08:46:22 -0400, HK wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2009 12:13:43 -0400, HK wrote:

It will all come down to that "ban the secret ballot" law.
If the feds can get around state right to work laws the UAW might
succeed in destroying the whole US auto industry and sending all of
the plants to Mexico.
Ah, yes...those state "Right to Work for Less" laws the right wing uses
to make sure workers are no more than serfs.

... as opposed to those "card check" states where a union goon
supervises the workers decision to join? *;-)

Gee, I've been working with labor unions since the 1970s, and have been
involved in, literally, dozens of union representation elections. I've
yet to see anyone on the union side exerting even the amount of pressure
employers exert to sway the election.

You *were not with the UAW were you?

My father in law had a VW beetle rolled over on the roof for parking
it too close to the Delco plant in Kokomo. He sold it and bought a
Nova after a snow plow destroyed it a couple months later. He got the
hint.

You have evidence the UAW was involved in either incident? More likely,
the former was simply an expression of love from his fellow workers.

When I lived in the Detroit area, the ad-pr agency I worked for had
American Motors as a client. I was not on that account, but it was
common knowledge at the agency that if you were heading out to AMC
offices or a plant, you went out there in an American-built car so as
not to offend management or workers.

I had a good time the few years I was in Detroit. Great restaurants,
great shopping, Sonny Eliot doing the weather and zoo reports, Canada
right across the river...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Detroit's a hole.

GM next?
 

On Mon, 11 May 2009 10:49:48 -0400, HK wrote:



Most of the arm-twisting comes from the employers. As in, "if you vote
union, we're shut down this plant." "If you vote union or help the union
in any way, we'll fire you." And so forth and so on.

The first is a perfectly valid company threat.
A company I worked for did just that when the union was voted in.
Moved to Arkansas.
Screwed the old-timers out of their pensions too.
Got nothing to do with the secret ballot.
Your second example just doesn't hold water. Getting fired on how you
vote is impossible with a secret ballot.
Management doesn't know how you voted. Duh.
I told you before this card check won't work.
Won't get through Congress.
If there's anything wrong with the union vote process or management
abuse, it can be handled by a strong NLRB.
Taking away the secret ballot is plain un-American.
Totally lame.

--Vic

GM next?
 

Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2009 10:49:48 -0400, HK wrote:


Most of the arm-twisting comes from the employers. As in, "if you vote
union, we're shut down this plant." "If you vote union or help the union
in any way, we'll fire you." And so forth and so on.

The first is a perfectly valid company threat.
A company I worked for did just that when the union was voted in.
Moved to Arkansas.
Screwed the old-timers out of their pensions too.
Got nothing to do with the secret ballot.
Your second example just doesn't hold water. Getting fired on how you
vote is impossible with a secret ballot.
Management doesn't know how you voted. Duh.
I told you before this card check won't work.
Won't get through Congress.
If there's anything wrong with the union vote process or management
abuse, it can be handled by a strong NLRB.
Taking away the secret ballot is plain un-American.
Totally lame.

--Vic


I don't know what the chances are in Congress, but they'll probably
improve when Franken is seated.

We don't have a strong NLRB or strong labor laws that are enforced. Bush
pretty much destroyed the NLRB, and OSHA, and the EPA.

I get quite the chuckle over Republican/right wing whining about unions.
It wasn't the unions that brought this country to its knees economically
the last couple of years. It was the unbridled greed of wall street, the
banking industry, and corporations.

GM next?
 

On Mon, 11 May 2009 15:15:02 -0400, HK wrote:



We don't have a strong NLRB or strong labor laws that are enforced. Bush
pretty much destroyed the NLRB, and OSHA, and the EPA.

It's the Obama administration now. He can change that.
No sense taking away the secret vote.
I'm not an anti-union guy, but that would turn me into one.
Wouldn't trust that a non-secret ballot accurately reflected the
wishes of the workers.

--Vic

GM next?
 

"HK" wrote in message
m...
wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2009 13:58:28 -0400, HK wrote:

My father in law had a VW beetle rolled over on the roof for parking
it too close to the Delco plant in Kokomo. He sold it and bought a
Nova after a snow plow destroyed it a couple months later. He got the
hint.

You have evidence the UAW was involved in either incident? More likely,
the former was simply an expression of love from his fellow workers.


... and it is your fellow workers who will be twisting you arm until
you sign the card.

I still want to know, what is wrong with a secret ballot? It is how
we elected Obama.
Do you think as many suburban white people would have voted for him if
they had to do it with the neighbors watching?
He certainly polled a whole lot better here than the bumper stickers
would have predicted and even better than the exit polls indicated.


I believe I offered up a couple of URLs to you last week that described in
some detail how employers pressure employees to vote the company's way,
even after more than enough workers sign cards to indicate they want a
union.

Most of the arm-twisting comes from the employers. As in, "if you vote
union, we're shut down this plant." "If you vote union or help the union
in any way, we'll fire you." And so forth and so on.

Obama carried almost every group of voters, and lots of us "suburban white
people" wore Obama-Biden buttons to the polls.

Exit polling isn't a lot more reliable than internet polling.

Why can't the "secret" ballot process be sped up?

GM next?
 

On May 11, 3:15*pm, HK wrote:

It wasn't the unions that brought this country to its knees economically
the last couple of years.

Correct. They did it over the last couple of dozen years.

It was the unbridled greed of wall street, the
banking industry, and corporations.

All facilitated by the Dems in Congress. Why else would all the
powerful dems have been taking so much money while protecting them?

GM next?
 

"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2009 13:58:28 -0400, HK wrote:

My father in law had a VW beetle rolled over on the roof for parking
it too close to the Delco plant in Kokomo. He sold it and bought a
Nova after a snow plow destroyed it a couple months later. He got the
hint.
You have evidence the UAW was involved in either incident? More
likely, the former was simply an expression of love from his fellow
workers.

... and it is your fellow workers who will be twisting you arm until
you sign the card.

I still want to know, what is wrong with a secret ballot? It is how
we elected Obama.
Do you think as many suburban white people would have voted for him if
they had to do it with the neighbors watching?
He certainly polled a whole lot better here than the bumper stickers
would have predicted and even better than the exit polls indicated.

I believe I offered up a couple of URLs to you last week that described
in some detail how employers pressure employees to vote the company's
way, even after more than enough workers sign cards to indicate they
want a union.

Most of the arm-twisting comes from the employers. As in, "if you vote
union, we're shut down this plant." "If you vote union or help the union
in any way, we'll fire you." And so forth and so on.

Obama carried almost every group of voters, and lots of us "suburban
white people" wore Obama-Biden buttons to the polls.

Exit polling isn't a lot more reliable than internet polling.

Why can't the "secret" ballot process be sped up?


Since Bush "de-balled" the NLRB, virtually all labor laws designed to
protect workers have been flushed down the crapper. It's going to take
Obama years to restaff the NLRB staff and the lawyer-judges-arbitrators,
and changing procedures takes just as long. Many changes have to get the
OK of Congress for implementation. There are literally dozens of ways
employers can derail or delay union rep elections, and then, after the
elections, the employers can refuse to negotiate a contract and play the
stall game for years.


If I understand correctly it takes legislation to implement the card check
process. Why not legislation to speed up the belt?

I hate the idea of giving up the secret ballot.

GM next?
 

D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2009 13:58:28 -0400, HK wrote:

My father in law had a VW beetle rolled over on the roof for parking
it too close to the Delco plant in Kokomo. He sold it and bought a
Nova after a snow plow destroyed it a couple months later. He got the
hint.
You have evidence the UAW was involved in either incident? More
likely, the former was simply an expression of love from his fellow
workers.
... and it is your fellow workers who will be twisting you arm until
you sign the card.

I still want to know, what is wrong with a secret ballot? It is how
we elected Obama.
Do you think as many suburban white people would have voted for him if
they had to do it with the neighbors watching?
He certainly polled a whole lot better here than the bumper stickers
would have predicted and even better than the exit polls indicated.
I believe I offered up a couple of URLs to you last week that described
in some detail how employers pressure employees to vote the company's
way, even after more than enough workers sign cards to indicate they
want a union.

Most of the arm-twisting comes from the employers. As in, "if you vote
union, we're shut down this plant." "If you vote union or help the union
in any way, we'll fire you." And so forth and so on.

Obama carried almost every group of voters, and lots of us "suburban
white people" wore Obama-Biden buttons to the polls.

Exit polling isn't a lot more reliable than internet polling.
Why can't the "secret" ballot process be sped up?

Since Bush "de-balled" the NLRB, virtually all labor laws designed to
protect workers have been flushed down the crapper. It's going to take
Obama years to restaff the NLRB staff and the lawyer-judges-arbitrators,
and changing procedures takes just as long. Many changes have to get the
OK of Congress for implementation. There are literally dozens of ways
employers can derail or delay union rep elections, and then, after the
elections, the employers can refuse to negotiate a contract and play the
stall game for years.


If I understand correctly it takes legislation to implement the card check
process. Why not legislation to speed up the belt?

I hate the idea of giving up the secret ballot.



As I said, there are a lot more problems than employers stalling
elections and scaring off their employees.