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"HK" wrote in message m... The United States is disintegrating, and not because of creeping socialism. We're going downhill because we let greed become our most important guiding philosophy. Too much power and money is in the hands of too few, and for most of "them," what's most important is making more money, no matter how many others that sort of greed hurts. The US society swings like a pendulum. It recently reached the extent of travel to the right and has now reversed direction. It will hit the other extreem of it's travel again, only to repeat. It's one of the dynamic components of our system. At some point, probably not in my lifetime or yours, the "have-nots" are going to revolt violent and restructure this country in ways that provide a decent way of life and some sort of security for the majority. The superrich? Why, they can move to China and exploit the billions who live there. Never happen. The system requires a variety and diversity of skills, talent and interests. A football team is not made up of all running backs. Eisboch |
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wrote in message ... I'd say the " workers " are the LEAST greedy of the whole bunch. If there was no Union, we'd all get 8 bucks an hour. Try living on that, in todays " greedy " inflated economy. -------------------------------------- Do something to make yourself more valuable. Sorry to be so blunt, but it's the truth. You cannot expect to be paid as much as someone else who has worked to acquire skills and capabilities greater than yours, just because you exist. Eisboch |
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Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message m... Well, I suppose I am "socialistic" enough to value labor at least as much as capital. Drastically cutting the pay of factory workers and eliminating their health care and retirement benefits is not acceptable. Might as well do away with safety regulations while we are at it, right? I mean anything that helps the rich get richer at the expense of the working middle class...why that's the new American way. Look. I respect anyone willing to work. I value training, education and a willingness to acquire valuable skills. In the trades, licensed electricians, plumbers, etc., union or not, deserve whatever they can command in terms of pay or benefits. The UAW isn't exactly the same, IMO. Most members are high school grads at best with no specific trades or training before becoming an autoworker at GM, Chrysler or Ford. (Please correct me if I am wrong.) Nothing wrong with that, but how they can expect wages and benefits that are well above the norm for the level of skill, training and qualifications required to do their job is something I cannot understand. It has nothing to do with rich versus poor. It has everything to do with being compensated commensurate with one's qualifications. If you and I were looking for a job as a journalist or copy writer for a newspaper or magazine, who is better qualified for a higher paying job? Eisboch There are many high-skilled jobs at the auto plants. Surely, a lot of workers come into the factories with few skills, but that doesn't mean they are untrainable and are without the ability to improve themselves. The unskilled workers start at jobs that don't require a lot of abilities, and they are paid less. More and more employers are going the "contract worker" route so they can entirely avoid any sort of fringe benefits. That works well in a crappy economy where easily exploited workers are in good supply. I don't resent auto workers making a lower middle class income. I do resent corporate suits earning 400 times a middle class income while he takes his company down the toilet. |
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"HK" wrote in message m... That would be $8 an hour *without* any health care coverage, without any pension, without any fringes, and in an unhealthy, really dangerous workplace. Workers, after all, exist only to increase the wealth of the rich. That's part of the Republican credo. :) You really can sling it. None of those conditions exist, haven't for a long time and you know it. It's simply the union mantra. Eisboch |
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Jim22208 wrote:
HK wrote: Eisboch wrote: Interesting prospective on the UAW... http://seekingalpha.com/article/1366...e?source=yahoo It is always fun to read the right-wingers' rationalizations as to why the working man and woman should be paid ****, with no benefits. Serfdom uber alles, eh? What's even more fun is watching you wriggle and squirm when the light shines on your favorite entities. Chew on this for a while Krause. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...52942094&hl=en |
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On May 11, 9:21*am, HK wrote:
Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message om... Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message news:OeKdnYgATbSPFZrXnZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@earthlink .com... Eisboch wrote: Interesting prospective on the UAW... http://seekingalpha.com/article/1366...-giving-up-mor... It is always fun to read the right-wingers' rationalizations as to why the working man and woman should be paid ****, with no benefits. Serfdom uber alles, eh? Why is that? Seems like when you cannot directly contradict or debate facts you default to a generalized, "right-winger" attack. Eisboch There's no reason to "directly contradict" or "debate" right-wingers because it would be the same as lying down with pigs in a pool of pig**** and expecting to come out clean. I read the article, and the conclusion is the same as all the other right-wing articles that state that auto workers in this country should work for peanuts. I especially liked the analogies between what the auto worker earns and what physicians can earn - that was funny stuff. I'm sure I've told you about my Norwegian buddies who work the offshore oil rigs and the supply boats. They make substantially less than their U.S. counterparts, but they live very well, and seem a lot happier than American works. Why? 1. First class national health care plan. 2. First class retirement plan that provides a really decent retirement. |
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Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message m... Well, I suppose I am "socialistic" enough to value labor at least as much as capital. Drastically cutting the pay of factory workers and eliminating their health care and retirement benefits is not acceptable. Might as well do away with safety regulations while we are at it, right? I mean anything that helps the rich get richer at the expense of the working middle class...why that's the new American way. Look. I respect anyone willing to work. I value training, education and a willingness to acquire valuable skills. In the trades, licensed electricians, plumbers, etc., union or not, deserve whatever they can command in terms of pay or benefits. The UAW isn't exactly the same, IMO. Most members are high school grads at best with no specific trades or training before becoming an autoworker at GM, Chrysler or Ford. (Please correct me if I am wrong.) Nothing wrong with that, but how they can expect wages and benefits that are well above the norm for the level of skill, training and qualifications required to do their job is something I cannot understand. It has nothing to do with rich versus poor. It has everything to do with being compensated commensurate with one's qualifications. If you and I were looking for a job as a journalist or copy writer for a newspaper or magazine, who is better qualified for a higher paying job? Eisboch I think you would be the choice even though your degree is not in spelling and grammar. SEE this. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...52942094&hl=en |
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D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message m... wrote: On Mon, 11 May 2009 13:58:28 -0400, HK wrote: My father in law had a VW beetle rolled over on the roof for parking it too close to the Delco plant in Kokomo. He sold it and bought a Nova after a snow plow destroyed it a couple months later. He got the hint. You have evidence the UAW was involved in either incident? More likely, the former was simply an expression of love from his fellow workers. ... and it is your fellow workers who will be twisting you arm until you sign the card. I still want to know, what is wrong with a secret ballot? It is how we elected Obama. Do you think as many suburban white people would have voted for him if they had to do it with the neighbors watching? He certainly polled a whole lot better here than the bumper stickers would have predicted and even better than the exit polls indicated. I believe I offered up a couple of URLs to you last week that described in some detail how employers pressure employees to vote the company's way, even after more than enough workers sign cards to indicate they want a union. Most of the arm-twisting comes from the employers. As in, "if you vote union, we're shut down this plant." "If you vote union or help the union in any way, we'll fire you." And so forth and so on. Obama carried almost every group of voters, and lots of us "suburban white people" wore Obama-Biden buttons to the polls. Exit polling isn't a lot more reliable than internet polling. Why can't the "secret" ballot process be sped up? Since Bush "de-balled" the NLRB, virtually all labor laws designed to protect workers have been flushed down the crapper. It's going to take Obama years to restaff the NLRB staff and the lawyer-judges-arbitrators, and changing procedures takes just as long. Many changes have to get the OK of Congress for implementation. There are literally dozens of ways employers can derail or delay union rep elections, and then, after the elections, the employers can refuse to negotiate a contract and play the stall game for years. |
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