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http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,2638670.story
[ GM, Segway think 2 wheels The companies plan to develop a two-wheeled, two-seat electric vehicle as a clean, safe and inexpensive alternative to traditional cars. Associated Press April 7, 2009 New York -- A solution to the world's urban transportation problems could lie in two wheels, not four, according to executives of General Motors Corp. and Segway Inc. The companies plan to announce today that they are developing a two-wheeled, two-seat electric vehicle designed to be a safe, inexpensive and clean alternative to traditional cars for cities across the world. The companies said their project, dubbed PUMA, for Personal Urban Mobility and Accessibility, would include a communications network allowing vehicles to interact with one another to regulate traffic flow and prevent crashes. The 300-pound prototype runs on a lithium-ion battery and dual electric motors and ..... ] |
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I think it's called a motorbike
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On 7 Apr 2009 16:15:40 +0800, adchin wrote:
I think it's called a motorbike The P.U.M.A. prototype http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=15888 -- Cliff |
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On Tue, 07 Apr 2009 06:12:41 -0400, Cliff wrote:
On 7 Apr 2009 16:15:40 +0800, adchin wrote: I think it's called a motorbike The P.U.M.A. prototype http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=15888 http://www.segway.com/blog/20090406i...-puma-329.html http://www.segway.com/puma/ http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayS...74&docid=53538 -- Cliff |
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Ok, thanks for the links. I went and did some searching myself. Pretty
cool vehicle i'd say, but can't GM just purchase a bunch of Tata Nanos, rebrand the thing and sell it as is and save all that R&D and expenses to be incurred ? It's not like GM is freakingly healthy and has tons of cash to R&D today |
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On 7 Apr 2009 19:15:16 +0800, adchin wrote:
Ok, thanks for the links. I went and did some searching myself. Pretty cool vehicle i'd say I wonder about heat & A/C .... gets cold some places & hot in others. -- Cliff |
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On Apr 7, 3:32*am, Cliff wrote:
*http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...pr07,0,2638670..... [ GM, Segway think 2 wheels The companies plan to develop a two-wheeled, two-seat electric vehicle as a clean, safe and inexpensive alternative to traditional cars. Associated Press April 7, 2009 New York -- A solution to the world's urban transportation problems could lie in two wheels, not four, according to executives of General Motors Corp. and Segway Inc. The companies plan to announce today that they are developing a two-wheeled, two-seat electric vehicle designed to be a safe, inexpensive and clean alternative to traditional cars for cities across the world. The companies said their project, dubbed PUMA, for Personal Urban Mobility and Accessibility, would include a communications network allowing vehicles to interact with one another to regulate traffic flow and prevent crashes. The 300-pound prototype runs on a lithium-ion battery and dual electric motors and ..... ] The idiocy here is that it is severely limited on how much deceleration can be provided. Even if it speeds up briefly to tilt it back before applying the brakes, it's still limited. I imagine it gently drops the front onto the casters, then brakes hard, wasted time and then limited braking force from the rear wheels. Dave |
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On Apr 7, 9:50*am, Cliff wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 06:35:51 -0700 (PDT), wrote: I imagine it gently drops the front onto the casters, then brakes hard, wasted time and then limited braking force from the rear wheels. * What rear wheels? -- Cliff If it were on the main/drive wheels and the front casters, for the purpose of describing vehicle dynamics it becomes appropriate to describe the main/drive wheels as the 'rear' wheels. Overall the vehicle has one (or two?) wheels in the back to prevent it rolling over backwards, the main drive wheels, and two (looks like 2) casters in the front. Dave |
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Cliff wrote:
On 7 Apr 2009 16:15:40 +0800, adchin wrote: I think it's called a motorbike The P.U.M.A. prototype http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=15888 I notice that it is operating on a sidewalk or some sort of cordoned off area. Are they proposing that all urban streets get rebuilt to accommodate these? |
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On Apr 7, 10:39*am, dave a wrote:
Cliff wrote: On 7 Apr 2009 16:15:40 +0800, adchin wrote: I think it's called a motorbike * The P.U.M.A. prototype *http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=15888 I notice that it is operating on a sidewalk or some sort of cordoned off area. *Are they proposing that all urban streets get rebuilt to accommodate these? Any small vehicle has the same issue, that the US roads weren't built for them and traffic is often too aggressive. It's a major problem for power wheelchair users, too. Around here about the only motorcycles seen are Harleys with big dudes on them. I retired my smaller Honda years ago after being cut off and tailgated too many times, and I didn't ride slowly or timidly at all. Disregarding the societal issues, a Segway is an excellent combination of the mobility of a bicycle and the size and maneuverability of a pedestrian. Unlike a bicycle they can stop still effortlessly or creep forward in a line or spin around within their own footprint. We used them in the engineering office cubicle area which was narrower than usual because of all the Segways lining the corridor. The only place they couldn't go as easily as a person was up to the administrative offices, since the Segway factory was built without an elevator. They stop very abruptly when you lean back. There isn't much difference from the braking ability of a motorcycle, the limit is wheel slip and they have sticky tires, similar to Michelin Arctic Alpins. You have to learn to judge the condition of the pavement but not as much as for a bicycle. We ran them on wet grass, dirt trails, and the loose gravel of the railroad that runs behind the factory. Jim Wilkins |
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On Apr 7, 9:39*am, dave a wrote:
I notice that it is operating on a sidewalk or some sort of cordoned off area. *Are they proposing that all urban streets get rebuilt to accommodate these? Segway has been working hard to get their device allowed on sidewalks all over the country. From http://www.humantransport.org/bicycl...ay/Segway.htm: "Segway LLC seeks public acceptance of Segway use on sidewalks and in other pedestrian spaces in order to allow their customers to drive it anywhere that a pedestrian may go. Although traffic law typically prohibits or severely restricts the operation most types of vehicles (especially motorized vehicles) in pedestrian spaces, Segway LLC has promoted legislation in every U.S. state to exempt Segway-like scooters, or "Electric Personal Assistive Mobility Devices" (EPAMDs), by classifying the EPAMD driver as a pedestrian just like a wheelchair user. This classification has generated protests from some pedestrian advocates who believe that the speed and weight of EPAMDs will create hazards and discomfort for pedestrians." |
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On Apr 7, 12:36*pm, Jeff Wisnia
wrote: wrote: On Apr 7, 9:50 am, Cliff wrote: On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 06:35:51 -0700 (PDT), wrote: I imagine it gently drops the front onto the casters, then brakes hard, wasted time and then limited braking force from the rear wheels. *What rear wheels? -- Cliff If it were on the main/drive wheels and the front casters, for the purpose of describing vehicle dynamics it becomes appropriate to describe the main/drive wheels as the 'rear' wheels. Overall the vehicle has one (or two?) wheels in the back to prevent it rolling over backwards, the main drive wheels, and two (looks like 2) casters in the front. Dave Sure makes me wonder how it'd handle the snow and ice we get here in Red Sox Nation. (And it gets even WORSE elsewhere in the nation.) And how would it handle steep San Francico style hills? Anyone know how the Segway responds to icy sidewalks and steep hills? Jeffry Wisnia I do not speak for them and can't be too specific about details but in my experience they are within the range of shoes, better than dress shoes and maybe worse than hiking boots. Both the original factory in Manchester and the newer one in Bedford NH are on steep parts of the bank of the Merrimack river, I've seen a Jeep unable to climb the pavement there on a bad winter day. The dirt trail behind the factory runs along the river and crosses ravines, some of them quite steep and slippery. I only worked part time and on call as a temp there and never had a chance to ride one outdoors on ice, plus the one they loaned me didn't have the wide lugged off-road wheels. I may not be the person to give "reasonable" advice anyway, since I used to run my dirt bike on snowmobile trails and frozen lakes with unstudded trial tires. Jim Wilkins |
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On Apr 7, 4:23 am, Cliff wrote:
On Tue, 07 Apr 2009 06:12:41 -0400, Cliff wrote: On 7 Apr 2009 16:15:40 +0800, adchin wrote: I think it's called a motorbike The P.U.M.A. prototype http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=15888 http://www.segway.com/blog/20090406i...-puma-329.html http://www.segway.com/puma/ http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayS...//image.emeral... -- Cliff The only potential advantage over in-line two wheelers is that, supposedly, it won't fall over. This could eliminate a whole class of injuries and attract people who are scared of bikes and motorbikes. But people will still get seriously injured in that thing in car- loveseat collisions. |
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On Apr 8, 2:37*am, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message eonecommunications... wrote: On Apr 7, 9:50 am, Cliff wrote: On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 06:35:51 -0700 (PDT), wrote: I imagine it gently drops the front onto the casters, then brakes hard, wasted time and then limited braking force from the rear wheels.. *What rear wheels? -- Cliff If it were on the main/drive wheels and the front casters, for the purpose of describing vehicle dynamics it becomes appropriate to describe the main/drive wheels as the 'rear' wheels. Overall the vehicle has one (or two?) wheels in the back to prevent it rolling over backwards, the main drive wheels, and two (looks like 2) casters in the front. Dave Sure makes me wonder how it'd handle the snow and ice we get here in Red Sox Nation. (And it gets even WORSE elsewhere in the nation.) And how would it handle steep San Francico style hills? Anyone know how the Segway responds to icy sidewalks and steep hills? Jeff -- Jeffry Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE) The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight. Actually Segways handle SF hills ok. *There is at least one tour company that uses Segways.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - There's a lot less mass to get up the hill. Think of one of the simple machines, the inclined plane. As the mass of the object increases, the force (work being done) increases. |
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Cliff wrote:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,2638670.story [ GM, Segway think 2 wheels The companies plan to develop a two-wheeled, two-seat electric vehicle as a clean, safe and inexpensive alternative to traditional cars. Associated Press April 7, 2009 New York -- A solution to the world's urban transportation problems could lie in two wheels, not four, according to executives of General Motors Corp. and Segway Inc. The companies plan to announce today that they are developing a two-wheeled, two-seat electric vehicle designed to be a safe, inexpensive and clean alternative to traditional cars for cities across the world. The companies said their project, dubbed PUMA, for Personal Urban Mobility and Accessibility, would include a communications network allowing vehicles to interact with one another to regulate traffic flow and prevent crashes. The 300-pound prototype runs on a lithium-ion battery and dual electric motors and ..... ] Dear Segway--- Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice--won't get fooled again!!" Steve -- Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 |
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On Apr 8, 2:32*am, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"RobertH" wrote in message ... On Apr 7, 4:23 am, Cliff wrote: On Tue, 07 Apr 2009 06:12:41 -0400, Cliff wrote: On 7 Apr 2009 16:15:40 +0800, adchin wrote: I think it's called a motorbike *The P.U.M.A. prototype *http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=15888 *http://www.segway.com/blog/20090406i...-puma-329.html *http://www.segway.com/puma/ http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayS...//image.emeral.... -- Cliff The only potential advantage over in-line two wheelers is that, supposedly, it won't fall over. This could eliminate a whole class of injuries and attract people who are scared of bikes and motorbikes. But people will still get seriously injured in that thing in car- loveseat collisions. Instead if falling over, it would fall frontwards or backwards. *Still falling over.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Uh, the thing has 4 wheels... Pfffftttt... Look at the pictures;) |
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Uh, the thing has 4 wheels... Pfffftttt... Look at the pictures;) yeah, just like a top fuel funny dragster has 6 wheels and really needs them |
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On Apr 7, 1:55*pm, RobertH wrote:
*The only potential advantage over in-line two wheelers is that, supposedly, it won't fall over. ... Ever try one? Bicycles and crowds of people don't mix well at all because of the difficulty of starting and stopping and the need to maintain some speed to balance. Segways stop and stand still easily, like pedestrians. Could you push a grocery store shopping cart with a standard bicycle? You can easily on a Segway, or spin around in place to pull it. |
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"Rick" wrote in message ... Uh, the thing has 4 wheels... Pfffftttt... Look at the pictures;) yeah, just like a top fuel funny dragster has 6 wheels and really needs them And like a bicycle with training wheels; it's still a bicycle. The reference is to the main wheels. We might as well really act stupid and claim steering wheels count too. |
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Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Apr 7, 1:55 pm, RobertH wrote: The only potential advantage over in-line two wheelers is that, supposedly, it won't fall over. ... Ever try one? Bicycles and crowds of people don't mix well at all because of the difficulty of starting and stopping and the need to maintain some speed to balance. Segways stop and stand still easily, like pedestrians. Could you push a grocery store shopping cart with a standard bicycle? You can easily on a Segway, or spin around in place to pull it. I'm having trouble visualizing that grocery cart thing. Where are each of your hands when you're pushing or pulling it? Is any other apparatus involved which hooks onto the cart? Maybe I could do it easily with an empty cart, but a full week's load of groceries takes me more than one hand to comfortably push (and steer). Jeff (Who's probably missing something here.....) -- Jeffry Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE) The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight. |
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Cliff wrote:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,2638670.story [ GM, Segway think 2 wheels The companies plan to develop a two-wheeled, two-seat electric vehicle as a clean, safe and inexpensive alternative to traditional cars. Associated Press April 7, 2009 New York -- A solution to the world's urban transportation problems could lie in two wheels, not four, according to executives of General Motors Corp. and Segway Inc. The companies plan to announce today that they are developing a two-wheeled, two-seat electric vehicle designed to be a safe, inexpensive and clean alternative to traditional cars for cities across the world. The companies said their project, dubbed PUMA, for Personal Urban Mobility and Accessibility, would include a communications network allowing vehicles to interact with one another to regulate traffic flow and prevent crashes. The 300-pound prototype runs on a lithium-ion battery and dual electric motors and ..... ] So all that tax money is going to Dean Kaman and his wacky ideas? Oh goody. If the US wants inexpensive urban transportation, all it needs to do is ease up on the safety requirements for cars that make them heavy and expensive, while at the same time changing out the brains of all those folks buying Ford Leviathans. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com Do you need to implement control loops in software? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you. See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html |
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On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 08:42:48 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
wrote: Any small vehicle has the same issue, that the US roads weren't built for them and traffic is often too aggressive. It's a major problem for power wheelchair users, too. Around here about the only motorcycles seen are Harleys with big dudes on them. I retired my smaller Honda years ago after being cut off and tailgated too many times, and I didn't ride slowly or timidly at all. But not true in many cities, like DC. A smaller cross section would give it advantage manuevering in many of the streets during rush hour or early morning when the trucks double park all over the city. It also has the same advantage the small Merc has when it comes to parking - no minor issue around areas like, say, Dupont Circle. Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels... |
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This reminds me of Smokey Stover's Foomobile except it has a top.
http://tinyurl.com/cnks7f On Apr 7, 3:32*am, Cliff wrote: *http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...pr07,0,2638670..... [ GM, Segway think 2 wheels The companies plan to develop a two-wheeled, two-seat electric vehicle as a clean, safe and inexpensive alternative to traditional cars. Associated Press April 7, 2009 New York -- A solution to the world's urban transportation problems could lie in two wheels, not four, according to executives of General Motors Corp. and Segway Inc. The companies plan to announce today that they are developing a two-wheeled, two-seat electric vehicle designed to be a safe, inexpensive and clean alternative to traditional cars for cities across the world. The companies said their project, dubbed PUMA, for Personal Urban Mobility and Accessibility, would include a communications network allowing vehicles to interact with one another to regulate traffic flow and prevent crashes. The 300-pound prototype runs on a lithium-ion battery and dual electric motors and ..... ] |
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adchin wrote:
I think it's called a motorbike No, that would be too simple. GM is, and always will be, afflicted by a need to do things in the most difficult, most expensive way possible, no matter how many cheap and simple alternatives might be rolling along Jefferson Avenue, right past their doorstep. So instead of a motorbike, they want to put wheels on the left and right sides of the vehicle, then put a gyroscope in it so you don't fall on your nose or your ass. The thought of just putting your foot out to keep from falling over, or steering with a simple fork and bearing, instead of a complex linkage or an electronic control that proportions wheel velocity, or whatever, just isn't GM's style. And when they've complicated the basic idea to the point of total absurdity, they'll probably try to sell it for 10 or 20 times the price of an off-the-shelf, proven quality, immensely popular Vespa. It's sad. KG |
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On Tue, 07 Apr 2009 18:52:36 GMT, Mark & Steven Bornfeld
wrote: Cliff wrote: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,2638670.story [ GM, Segway think 2 wheels The companies plan to develop a two-wheeled, two-seat electric vehicle as a clean, safe and inexpensive alternative to traditional cars. Associated Press April 7, 2009 New York -- A solution to the world's urban transportation problems could lie in two wheels, not four, according to executives of General Motors Corp. and Segway Inc. The companies plan to announce today that they are developing a two-wheeled, two-seat electric vehicle designed to be a safe, inexpensive and clean alternative to traditional cars for cities across the world. The companies said their project, dubbed PUMA, for Personal Urban Mobility and Accessibility, would include a communications network allowing vehicles to interact with one another to regulate traffic flow and prevent crashes. The 300-pound prototype runs on a lithium-ion battery and dual electric motors and ..... ] Dear Segway--- Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice--won't get fooled again!!" Steve Which was it, Honda or Toyota came up with a more elaborate version of this that was shown on TV a few months back. IIRC it had three wheels and only carried one person. Looked somewhat like Granny's rocking chair! Gerry :-)} London, Canada |
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On Apr 7, 6:01*pm, "Blake" wrote:
"Rick" wrote in message ... Uh, the thing has 4 wheels... Pfffftttt... Look at the pictures;) yeah, just like a top fuel funny dragster has 6 wheels and really needs them And like a bicycle with training wheels; it's still a bicycle. *The reference is to the main wheels. *We might as well really act stupid and claim steering wheels count too. Or... .you could say it has 4 wheels, which it does, All four are essential to the operation. Or we could just be stupid and say those round things that keep it stable are not wheels.. A bike with training wheels has 4 wheels professor.. Now take your crossposting penis pullers and go back to your engineering group where you can all measure yourselves and argue about units of measure. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The most corrupt congress in history, holding hands with the most criminal administration in history. We're screwed! |
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wrote in message ... On Apr 7, 6:01 pm, "Blake" wrote: "Rick" wrote in message ... Uh, the thing has 4 wheels... Pfffftttt... Look at the pictures;) yeah, just like a top fuel funny dragster has 6 wheels and really needs them And like a bicycle with training wheels; it's still a bicycle. The reference is to the main wheels. We might as well really act stupid and claim steering wheels count too. Or... .you could say it has 4 wheels, which it does, All four are essential to the operation. Or we could just be stupid and say those round things that keep it stable are not wheels.. A bike with training wheels has 4 wheels professor.. Now take your crossposting penis pullers and go back to your engineering group where you can all measure yourselves and argue about units of measure. You're too funny. People reply to your crossposted message and you insult them for crossposting. Lmaoay |
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"RobertH" wrote in message ... On Apr 7, 4:23 am, Cliff wrote: On Tue, 07 Apr 2009 06:12:41 -0400, Cliff wrote: On 7 Apr 2009 16:15:40 +0800, adchin wrote: I think it's called a motorbike The P.U.M.A. prototype http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=15888 http://www.segway.com/blog/20090406i...-puma-329.html http://www.segway.com/puma/ http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayS...//image.emeral... -- Cliff The only potential advantage over in-line two wheelers is that, supposedly, it won't fall over. This could eliminate a whole class of injuries and attract people who are scared of bikes and motorbikes. But people will still get seriously injured in that thing in car- loveseat collisions. Instead if falling over, it would fall frontwards or backwards. Still falling over. |
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On Apr 7, 6:56*pm, Jeff Wisnia wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote: [push a cart on a Segway] I'm having trouble visualizing that grocery cart thing. Where are each of your hands when you're pushing or pulling it? Is any other apparatus involved which hooks onto the cart? Maybe I could do it easily with an empty cart, but a full week's load of groceries takes me more than one hand to comfortably push (and steer). Jeff (Who's probably missing something here.....) Jeffry Wisnia I had to see it done first, too, with the overloaded trash hopper from the lab: http://www.yankeesupply.com/catalog/...ction/view.htm The Segway they loaned me was the older model with twist-grip steering. One hand on the steering grip, the other pushing the hopper. It took some practice but not as much as opening and maneuvering through the heavy, self-closing fire doors. It helps that in the Army I learned how to control the heavy floor buffers with one hand. Jim Wilkins |
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On Apr 7, 7:01*pm, Tim Wescott wrote:
If the US wants inexpensive urban transportation, all it needs to do is ease up on the safety requirements for cars that make them heavy and expensive, while at the same time changing out the brains of all those folks buying Ford Leviathans. Tim Wescott Wescott Design Serviceshttp://www.wescottdesign.com And also crack down harder on the reckless and antisocial behavior that triggered those requirements. |
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On Apr 7, 10:22*pm, Gerald Miller wrote:
... Which was it, Honda or Toyota came up with a more elaborate version of this that was shown on TV a few months back. IIRC it had three wheels and only carried one person. Looked somewhat like Granny's rocking chair! Gerry :-)} Like these? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isetta The Germans switched to larger cars as soon as they could afford them. When I was there in the early 1970's the various tiny cars were already curiosities and museum pieces. Personally I need a vehicle that will carry wheelchairs, 10' pipe, lumber, corrugated roofing, machinery, etc. Even if it were free an extra tiny vehicle that doesn't carry cargo would cost me more in insurance than it would save in gas, the CRV does all of the above, in any weather, and gets over 25 MPG. I've tried using a motorcycle with saddlebags for everything, including long camping trips. The real irony is that emissions and safety regulations eliminated vehicles such as the 1978 Accord I had, which would also hold 10' pipe internally and delivered 36 - 38 MPG in normal driving and well over 40 on a trip. I still have a 1980 one in round tuit status, the mandated changes dropped its mileage to barely 30. It was roomy and comfortable enough to hold my parents and me on a long trip around eastern Canada Jim Wilkins |
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On Tue, 07 Apr 2009 07:39:18 -0700, dave a wrote:
Cliff wrote: On 7 Apr 2009 16:15:40 +0800, adchin wrote: I think it's called a motorbike The P.U.M.A. prototype http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=15888 I notice that it is operating on a sidewalk or some sort of cordoned off area. Are they proposing that all urban streets get rebuilt to accommodate these? Why would they need to be? But I'd bet the sensors & control systems (in part) get added to cars & trucks. Might even make sense to retrofit current vehicles if it saves enough in insurance & collision damages. -- Cliff |
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On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 08:42:48 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins wrote:
Any small vehicle has the same issue, that the US roads weren't built for them Small & lightweight do less damage to roads too IIRC. Hence roads might be cheaper to maintain ... -- Cliff |
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On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 12:59:07 -0400, "P" wrote:
"Cliff" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 07 Apr 2009 06:47:56 -0700, BottleBob wrote: You missed the guidance systems I expect. But it could be hit .... -- Cliff Ahhh! Take evasive action! Yup. That oughta work great. Bikes & motorcycles & pedestrians can be hit too. -- Cliff |
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On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 10:55:27 -0700 (PDT), RobertH wrote:
The only potential advantage over in-line two wheelers is that, supposedly, it won't fall over. Bush fell off ..... -- Cliff |
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