On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 10:55:27 -0700 (PDT), RobertH wrote:

The only potential advantage over in-line two wheelers is that,
supposedly, it won't fall over.

Weather & cargo too.
--
Cliff

Cliff wrote:
On 7 Apr 2009 16:15:40 +0800, adchin wrote:

I think it's called a motorbike

The P.U.M.A. prototype
http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=15888

I notice that it is operating on a sidewalk or some sort of cordoned off
area. Are they proposing that all urban streets get rebuilt to
accommodate these?

On Apr 7, 10:39*am, dave a wrote:
Cliff wrote:
On 7 Apr 2009 16:15:40 +0800, adchin wrote:

I think it's called a motorbike

* The P.U.M.A. prototype
*http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=15888

I notice that it is operating on a sidewalk or some sort of cordoned off
area. *Are they proposing that all urban streets get rebuilt to
accommodate these?

Any small vehicle has the same issue, that the US roads weren't built
for them and traffic is often too aggressive. It's a major problem for
power wheelchair users, too. Around here about the only motorcycles
seen are Harleys with big dudes on them. I retired my smaller Honda
years ago after being cut off and tailgated too many times, and I
didn't ride slowly or timidly at all.

Disregarding the societal issues, a Segway is an excellent combination
of the mobility of a bicycle and the size and maneuverability of a
pedestrian. Unlike a bicycle they can stop still effortlessly or creep
forward in a line or spin around within their own footprint. We used
them in the engineering office cubicle area which was narrower than
usual because of all the Segways lining the corridor. The only place
they couldn't go as easily as a person was up to the administrative
offices, since the Segway factory was built without an elevator.

They stop very abruptly when you lean back. There isn't much
difference from the braking ability of a motorcycle, the limit is
wheel slip and they have sticky tires, similar to Michelin Arctic
Alpins. You have to learn to judge the condition of the pavement but
not as much as for a bicycle. We ran them on wet grass, dirt trails,
and the loose gravel of the railroad that runs behind the factory.

Jim Wilkins

On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 08:42:48 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

Any small vehicle has the same issue, that the US roads weren't built
for them and traffic is often too aggressive. It's a major problem for
power wheelchair users, too. Around here about the only motorcycles
seen are Harleys with big dudes on them. I retired my smaller Honda
years ago after being cut off and tailgated too many times, and I
didn't ride slowly or timidly at all.

But not true in many cities, like DC. A smaller cross section would
give it advantage manuevering in many of the streets during rush hour
or early morning when the trucks double park all over the city. It
also has the same advantage the small Merc has when it comes to
parking - no minor issue around areas like, say, Dupont Circle.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 08:42:48 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins wrote:

Any small vehicle has the same issue, that the US roads weren't built
for them

Small & lightweight do less damage to roads too IIRC.
Hence roads might be cheaper to maintain ...
--
Cliff

On Apr 7, 9:39*am, dave a wrote:
I notice that it is operating on a sidewalk or some sort of cordoned off
area. *Are they proposing that all urban streets get rebuilt to
accommodate these?

Segway has been working hard to get their device allowed on sidewalks
all over the country. From http://www.humantransport.org/bicycl...ay/Segway.htm:

"Segway LLC seeks public acceptance of Segway use on sidewalks and in
other pedestrian spaces in order to allow their customers to drive it
anywhere that a pedestrian may go. Although traffic law typically
prohibits or severely restricts the operation most types of vehicles
(especially motorized vehicles) in pedestrian spaces, Segway LLC has
promoted legislation in every U.S. state to exempt Segway-like
scooters, or "Electric Personal Assistive Mobility Devices" (EPAMDs),
by classifying the EPAMD driver as a pedestrian just like a wheelchair
user. This classification has generated protests from some pedestrian
advocates who believe that the speed and weight of EPAMDs will create
hazards and discomfort for pedestrians."

On Tue, 07 Apr 2009 07:39:18 -0700, dave a wrote:

Cliff wrote:
On 7 Apr 2009 16:15:40 +0800, adchin wrote:

I think it's called a motorbike

The P.U.M.A. prototype
http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=15888

I notice that it is operating on a sidewalk or some sort of cordoned off
area. Are they proposing that all urban streets get rebuilt to
accommodate these?

Why would they need to be?
But I'd bet the sensors & control systems (in part) get
added to cars & trucks.
Might even make sense to retrofit current vehicles
if it saves enough in insurance & collision damages.
--
Cliff

adchin wrote:
I think it's called a motorbike


No, that would be too simple. GM is, and always will be, afflicted
by a need to do things in the most difficult, most expensive way
possible, no matter how many cheap and simple alternatives might be
rolling along Jefferson Avenue, right past their doorstep.

So instead of a motorbike, they want to put wheels on the left and
right sides of the vehicle, then put a gyroscope in it so you don't fall
on your nose or your ass. The thought of just putting your foot out to
keep from falling over, or steering with a simple fork and bearing,
instead of a complex linkage or an electronic control that proportions
wheel velocity, or whatever, just isn't GM's style. And when they've
complicated the basic idea to the point of total absurdity, they'll
probably try to sell it for 10 or 20 times the price of an
off-the-shelf, proven quality, immensely popular Vespa.

It's sad.

KG

On Apr 7, 3:32*am, Cliff wrote:
*http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...pr07,0,2638670.....
[
GM, Segway think 2 wheels
The companies plan to develop a two-wheeled, two-seat electric vehicle as a
clean, safe and inexpensive alternative to traditional cars.
Associated Press
April 7, 2009

New York -- A solution to the world's urban transportation problems could lie in
two wheels, not four, according to executives of General Motors Corp. and Segway
Inc.

The companies plan to announce today that they are developing a two-wheeled,
two-seat electric vehicle designed to be a safe, inexpensive and clean
alternative to traditional cars for cities across the world.

The companies said their project, dubbed PUMA, for Personal Urban Mobility and
Accessibility, would include a communications network allowing vehicles to
interact with one another to regulate traffic flow and prevent crashes.

The 300-pound prototype runs on a lithium-ion battery and dual electric motors
and .....
]

The idiocy here is that it is severely limited on how much
deceleration can be provided.

Even if it speeds up briefly to tilt it back before applying the
brakes, it's still limited.

I imagine it gently drops the front onto the casters, then brakes
hard, wasted time and then limited braking force from the rear wheels.


Dave

On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 06:35:51 -0700 (PDT), wrote:


I imagine it gently drops the front onto the casters, then brakes
hard, wasted time and then limited braking force from the rear wheels.

What rear wheels?
--
Cliff